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peoplepainter
06-07-2004, 11:14 AM
Hi everyone. I have received a note from someone who didn't have the courage to sign it and I am posting it below with the bad word edited. I am also posting a response to my "perfection" in the thumbnail below. Maybe I should have let it go, but the character assasination is what bothered me as it probably would most of you. Here is the note I received:

[WetCanvas should give you a "XXXshXXter's" or "ConArtist" merit badge.

There are many members at WetCanvas that have downloaded the reference picture and the digital painting of your son from your tutorial and simply layered them together in PhotoShop. They are identical in every minute detail! No one on earth has the skill to freehand [as you claim to do] every detail to within 1/100 of an inch! AND you profess to do the whole process in 4 or 5 hours? AND you state that you're rather new to digital art? LMAO!!!.....you are something! Do you think WC members were born yesterday?
It's shameful that you seek praise and adulation from unsuspecting members in this way. Do you wonder why you don't get as many responses to your posts as others? Because everyone knows that you are a fake... they look, laugh and move on... your not the first [by far] pretender to come along at WC and post doctored photographs as paintings. Yes...some are fooled and heap lavish praise... the majority of us are not fooled, however.(there are many PM's going around about your legitimacy, BTW.)
It taints you obvious talent.It makes one suspicious about the legitimacy of your real paintings. It's not shameful to trace... most of us do to some degree or another... and admit it! You still have to paint the details and that's where the real skill comes in.
I suggest that you stick to posting your "real" art and avoid future embarassment.Ohhh... I'm sure you will go and post some response trying even harder than you have to convince the members that you really are as good as you claim and that you really don't trace over photos or paint over them. I would suggest otherwise.... .
I am one who at first, gave you lavish praise for your skill until I discovered the truth. I'm sorry Lisa, but, I get outraged when I've been "played" a fool.]

You all know I am new here. It is absolutely fair to question me about my work. You don't know me yet. However, letters like this put me in the position of trying to prove I make mistakes not to mention defend my character. I don't know if what this guy says is true, that there are behind the scenes e-mails. That's fine but you should know your facts. I post at another board where there are people with far better eyes than mine who are way better at painting from a photo without tracing. None of them has accused me of lying. THAT is why I am posting a response. It speaks to my character.
I hope this angry e-mail is not typical of the community here. I have met some really nice people who really want to improve their artwork, people who understand I am OLD and have been doing this for almost 20 years. I may not be a genius, but I am not so stupid that I would post the artwork, the original photo, and the steps I used at the same time LYING about how I did it. I've told you all exactly what I did to create the portrait. I told you that I used the same size for the source photo and the artwork. This makes it easier to find reference points in the piece. Yes, you can layer them over eachother which I did when I got this e-mail but that is deceiving. You cannot see the mistakes because you have to alter the opacity of the overlapping layer and since they ARE close (yep, I'll take credit for that as I worked hard on it) it makes it difficult to extract them. There ARE mistakes and they are noted in the thumbnail below. My guess is you could do this with any portraits I create and not just digital ones. I have done live demonstrations in the past with pastels but since they are not done on the computer, there is no question.
I've said before the beauty of the computer is being allowed more un-do's than in traditional oils or pastels. You can zoom in in greater detail. For people who paint like me, it's great. If whoever posted this knew anything about relative proportion, he/she would know that with 20+ years of practice you end up with a pretty good eye (not perfect, see thumbnail) and that the computer improves one's skills even more by allowing so many touch-ups without having to scrap a piece.
As far as tracing goes, no it is not shameful at all and yes, you do still have to have the skills. It may be very good practice. If I ever do trace I will let you know. It's likely I would consider that for a technical piece....working with a subject I am not familiar for example. For portraits though, I will not trace. This has been my full time career for decades and I don't need to. The main focus of my work has been to try to get to a point of photo-realism. I am not there yet but I am working on it and the computer to me is another way of getting there. It has even helped me with my pastel work. I thought this board would be helpful as there seem to be honest critiques and mostly good people.
I am flattered someone thinks I am so perfect that they would go this far to accuse me of being a fraud, but I would appreciate it if they would have the guts to identify themselves, perhaps ask questions to give me an opportunity to respond, not act like a technical expert in Photoshop (without considering it's failings), and above all not call me a "liar" publicly or privately.
Thanks for reading this. Make up your own mind. If you have issues with my work or anyone elses, I pray you give either an opportunity to respond in a civilized and respectful manner and not send an unsigned and cowardly attack when you don't have your facts.
Below please see my own critique of the work in question. You may not have to look hard to see the mistakes but apparently whoever wrote to me did not notice them, doesn't have a good eye for proportion, or was too intent on being nasty. It is not accurate to 1/100 of an inch. I am not perfect. It did take me 4-5 hours. I do a pastel in about 2 hours so that's a lot longer.

Thanks for reading. I hope you understand why I posted. I guess in a way the note from "anonymous" was a compliment but it did hurt my feelings. I guess that's obvious.

Lisa

Yako
06-07-2004, 12:04 PM
Lisa,

I'm so sorry you've received such a harsh critique! Perhaps in a certain way you should be proud because your work was so perfect he or she couldn't stand it. You're oil paintings are really beautiful!

I'm not against critiques, it's a good way to improve one's work, but there are more appropiate ways to do it.

Keep going! :) :) :) !!!....

Jet
06-07-2004, 12:12 PM
Lisa,
you don't have to explain yourself everytime you get a letter of this type.

He /she (?) is entitled to have 'its' own opinion, and you don't have to let that bother you.
I cannot say anything about it, but the tute seemed like a legitimate work and if you had the capability to fake it, well, you just fooled lots of us,but ...for what ? ..for some praising ?..just for that ? or are you selling a tutorial for this ?

It would be really freaky if someone would try a scam like that just for kicks....
and i've seen some work that i have doubts myself because the member doesn't want to give any clues..., but if you've showed a step by step it will be very easy to blow your cover... all we have to do is to sit down and follow it closely and see if it is really possible to get this close to the photo without cloning.
I wouldn't worry about that letter, and if he/she wants to remain out of sight for its own reasons which i wouldn't dare to question at all.....what's really out of place is the unnecessary use of foul language for this type of 'problem'.

If you receive that type of letters in a PM please report it directly to the forum's moderator at once..by clicking on the exclamation ! point/mark at the upper right corner of your post.

Regards

Cronious
06-07-2004, 01:14 PM
I am sure that majority of the members here would back me in saying this is not the type of message that is acceptable. We should be welcoming, I feel a majority of us are.

Please continue to share your work here, don't let anyone make you feel that you do not belong. Everyone is intitted to and has the right to express there view, but we all must understand that we all have those rights, no only to express but to respond to comments.

I posted this at the INN but thought it might be appropriate here

The Rights Charter

I have the right to be treated with respect as an equal human being

I have the right to acknowledge my needs as being equal to those of others

I have the right to express my opinions thoughts and feelings

I have the right to make mistakes

I have the right to choose not to take responsibility for other people

I have the right to be me without being dependant on the approval of others



These Rights are my guidelines for life, The only thing I plead with people to see is that EVERYONE has these rights, no only one but all people. I think if we all considered each of these everyday, in everything then more people would be more considerate and more compasionate with each other.

Take care and remember, Respect, dignity, choice, rights, fulfilment, safety and security are all elements of what we should expect.

Sorry this sounds like a lecture, but some things just need to be said occassionally.



I hope this helps, don't forget that we are all valuable people, keep safe


My 2 cents worth.................................

themanda
06-07-2004, 01:19 PM
well that must have been a great thing to open. sheesh.

i agree with yako...such strong sentiment must surely be a sign of a jealous mind. there's not much you can do about it, but please don't let that stop you from posting here. i do think that you have a great talent and would very much like to see more of your work. i would do as jorge says, though, and report the member who sent you the message if you are able.

if there has been any pm'ing talking about your work i haven't been included in it, so i can't vouch for that.

i'm sorry that this happened to you. i've never seen anything like that happen at wc before.

JCoop
06-07-2004, 01:49 PM
Lisa, this is clearly an example of a cowardly person with a small mind and an even smaller opinion of his/her own artwork... that they would take the time and energy to criticize another artist without having the knowledge and background and frankly brains to do so. This letter to you was so tactless, that it goes beyond my ability to describe how tactless it really is!

I've been at this thing called digital art for many, many years. I've done everything from vector art to 3D illustration to photomanips to paintovers to color sampling to pure painting on the computer. At this point I would say I was qualified to give an opinion on the merits of what is what ...clearly, and without question, your work falls under the category of pure painting. You are so good at your craft that others are naturally curious, and that's understandable. But this persons approach is not!

I've seen some low blows during my time here at WC!, but this person has sank to a new WC! low. And to do it anonymously... how pathetic!

Lisa, it is my wish for you to go forward undaunted by this. Wear it as a badge of courage and post freely and without hesitation. Your integrity is intact!

peoplepainter
06-07-2004, 01:52 PM
Thanks, guys. I was starting to feel kind of strange about posting here. You are all right. I shouldn't let it bother me...I think it's the sensitive artist part in me and it really made me sad. It's one thing to have someone be nasty about your work and not give constructive feedback. That does hurt but most of us understand beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it was the attack on my character that got me so hot under the collar.
All of you who responded are the ones I like and admire very much anyway (and more of you too) and you have made me feel quite accepted. I have seen most of your posts and not only do you all know your art, but you are also fair and decent human beings.
Jet, you and I have had our debates and you have been extrememly fair, honest, and kind.
Cronious, themanda, and yako, I have learned a lot from all of you and I would like to continue learning.
I really appreciate the response. You've renewed my faith today.

See you all soon.

Lisa

peoplepainter
06-07-2004, 02:00 PM
JCOOP!
I think you missed one of your callings. Granted, your art is tremendous. We all know that, but the world is missing out on something else too. You have an incredible way with words. You have this uncanny way of putting a thought into what is almost like poetry. I think you'd make a great motivational guru, preacher, rabbi, couselor, etc. Oh forget that. You just simply make a great friend...something I am proud to call you.
It's obvious you are a man of integrity and I am relieved to see you saw the core of what bothered me. In the end, that's all we have. We have our integrity and that is what mattered to me...not what people think of my artwork.
This forum would have a big hole in it without you. I know that already.
Thanks, my friend. I know I speak for a lot of people when I say I am glad you are here.
Lisa

Michael
06-07-2004, 02:44 PM
First, I would like to say, That after reading through all of this there is one thing that really struck out at me. And that was Crones invention of a new word...intitted...I like it!! Don't know what it is, but I like it :evil:

Now, as for writing an anonymous letter just to berate and make someone feel bad, that is juvenile, callous and disrespectful. I am rarely on the oppisite side of a discussion, mostly because I don't see the point in trying to change someones views. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and I can usually see why they feel the way they do. Oddly enough I disagree with someone on an issue right now, a first I think, and Jorge shall remain nameless here :D But what I did, not only because he is a friend, was talk to him about it before I continued posting my views.

This person is entitled to think they way they do. They may question all they want, debate the issue, outright say they don't believe you. But they should have done it in an adult manner...without insults, derogatory language and in the open.

I find it especially repulsive when someone hides in the shadows. Whenever someone has disagreed with me, not believed me or just wanted to question me, they have always done it in the open. I respect that. Doing this to you in the fashion they did deserves no respect, rather disdain for the writer.

And in disdain the brook no attention or consideration what-so-ever!!

Keep posting, keep showing what work you do, and make them feel like the small person they are for this malicious act!!!

All of the above is copyrighted and may not be used, copied or reprinted without the authors permission.......AS IF :p

peoplepainter
06-07-2004, 02:51 PM
RedWater. I have taken your quote and it will be on the evening news...lol

I think you are right. I have had debates with a few people but it was direct and respectful. That's what matters, not the disagreeing. Isn't the forum partially for debate over artistic issues? I know I learn a lot from the back and forth comments you all post.

Most of you "regulars" are clearly decent folk and again I thank you all for your thoughts.

Lisa the Liar

justjean
06-07-2004, 03:07 PM
Lisa,

I'm sorry for the hurt you have sustained but please keep posting. You will find that most of us do not feel or act in that way. Your work along with many others here at WC is an inspiration.

And thankyou for allowing me to view your beautiful art

Jean

Elvira
06-07-2004, 03:21 PM
Heaven's, I'm glad I didn't share any of the images I do for my family they want them cloned or close too it, and as far as I'm concerned one needs to be ashamed to post thier work no matter how they may it. And there was no way this kind of Flaming can be condoned and I hope if the individual is identified they have their prievliges forfieted!!!!!

I seldom post stuff that would be really representative of my natural media stuff as abstract work doesn't seem to fair well on the forums, where the majority seem to be into very realistic renditions, in fact I've gotten out of the habit of even trying them digitally most of the time. The exception was my "Depression" series I find that emotional subjects work best for me in the abstract. :D

Lisa I'm so sorry you were the subject of such a mean spirited flame, envy has to be the root of it!

As I was trying to explain to a friend we all orignally have our own visual language and our education and socialization has for the most part ruined it for many so they no longer even relate to thier own voice any more. One of the reason I think educators miss it when they drop Art Ed, when the budgets get tight it is the only forum where as children we can learn to validate our visual voices. Enough of my pet rant for nowl. Love your work though I could never imatate it or would I want too!
Edie

JulieBoyles
06-07-2004, 05:07 PM
Oh Lisa, what a mean thing to have happened to you! I'm so sorry someone had to make themself feel better by questioning your talent and ability. I hope this won't stop you from posting your work and sharing some of that 20 years of experience with all the rest of us!

Looking forward to seeing more of your work,

Julie :D

Michael
06-07-2004, 05:09 PM
Oh Lisa, what a mean thing to have happened to you! I'm so sorry someone had to make themself feel better by questioning your talent and ability. I hope this won't stop you from posting your work and sharing some of that 20 years of experience with all the rest of us!

Looking forward to seeing more of your work,

Julie :D


It better not...Something like that would never stop me from posting my 20 minutes of experience!!!!

Jet
06-07-2004, 05:10 PM
Lisa the liar
That's a kool signature just to show you could care less about that ranting.

Let's not give this person more importance than someone nameless can have. but i'll refer to him/her as 'guy' or Mr. Cowie.

Everyone agrees this was caused but envy and impotence -not the one that gets better with viagra-,
Lisa's work seems to have the enormous power to have disengaged some mechanism inside this goon's head and flipped http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-May-2004/27782-silly.gif

Lisa should be proud because she is not only a good liar, but a great hipnotist as well, as she has all of us under her spell and here we are, like mindless robots not seeing what this Einstein can see.

If that's the price to pay for being good at doing art then who will strive for the enviable position of attracting crackheads to our environment.

Maybe this guy is not good at art but he can be famous jumping from the statue of liberty and then telling us about it, i'd vote for that (without a poll)

I'm trying to ease things out here, otherwise this guy is going to fulfill his purpose of getting on our nerves.... :D

By the way mr cowie, did you vote already ? :D

Lisa don't worry, for me you're still the artist worth striving for..http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2004/27782-peck.gif

Sorry ..no kiss for you Mr Cowie, just a tongue flippy http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Feb-2004/27782-krakrani2.gif ... too bad all other flippies are banned at WC ;)

Regards

lemonbird
06-07-2004, 06:13 PM
((((lisa))))

Sorry you're having this awful experience. :( I agree with what everyone else has said here. You're work is beautiful. :)

Chiers
06-07-2004, 07:39 PM
I would be the first to confess I had doubts about the legitimacy of your painting. Only because I have seen so much deception in the digital art forums I have become somewhat hesitant to take things at face value on the internet.

If you are good enough to make people wonder if you are that good then you should be proud. I certainly wouldn't worry about anyones anonymous comments! I do wonder though, one, are you sure they came from here, and two, I don't remember if you said, was this an email or what. I don't know how anyone could send a pm or email without a name and or addy included??

Anonymity is something I don't much understand in most cases. But then, I guess I am not the most diplomatic person in the world and If I am going to say something I pretty much blurt it right out to the party concerned. Otherwise...I keep it to myself. LOL in fact I once called myself a bulldog in a debate in another group and a couple other people very quickly agreed with me. Hee hee.... :D

flowerfancy58
06-07-2004, 08:41 PM
Lisa,
I took some time and visited your website today and I was sooo impressed!!
Beautiful work:)

Ignore that message..... unfortunately there are a few hurtful people out there (not many, thank heavens) that get their pleasure from things like that.
Dont give them the pleasure of letting them know they bothered you and just keep posting your wonderful work:)

Oh, and I'd love to see one of your stills done digitally and posted!!

gloria:)

billiam
06-07-2004, 08:53 PM
sometimes theres a rotten apple in the basket, just don't take a bite. throw it out an go on. it's like ivory here 99.44/100% good. have a great day, eat a banana, not an apple. bill

sandge
06-07-2004, 10:28 PM
Lisa,
Just popping in to say that, as moderator of the portraiture forum, you have my full support in posting your work there.

I am extremely frustrated with the rough reception digital artists receive in the portraiture forum. I have tried to make it clear that all mediums are welcome there and will continue to reinforce this message. You can help me out by clicking that 'report this message' icon on any new posts in that forum that need my attention.

It is outrageous that someone is sending anonymous hate mail. I would like to suggest that you forward the message, with complete headers, to Scott so that it can be investigated.

I am sorry that this has happened to you and hope that you will continue to share your lovely work in the portraiture forum.

cheers
s

peoplepainter
06-08-2004, 02:50 AM
Ok y'all! Thanks again for the support. I'll ignore the "bad apples" and move on to the fun stuff....the art.
Flowerfancy: thanks for looking at my site. That made me smile.
Chiers: Thanks for you honesty and support. I like "bulldogs." If you ever have an issue with me, just blurt away. I'm not afraid of an honest debate.
Billiam: Just ate a banana.
Dragonfly...: Thanks for the kind words.

I think we can wrap this one up. I will chalk it up to one bad apple. The rest of you sound fair minded and honest and I know who to rely on in the future for balanced critique.

When I do mess up, you be sure to let me know. No need to be anonymous. I won't hold it against you.

Have a great day! I am going to go look at some great artwork!

Lisa

Andrew Rance
06-08-2004, 05:32 AM
Sorry, I know this thread is 'closed', but I have just come across it and couldn't resist chipping in. I had to laugh at the sniffy retort from someone in the Portraiture Forum that digital portraits should only be posted in the Digital Art forum! I, for one, will make sure that any digital portraits I submit to this forum from now on are cross-posted in Portraiture. The tenet of the anonymous mailing you received made me wonder how the author views the use of photography as a reference source in traditional art - a practice that the vast majority of traditional artists engage in, I would imagine, so does that make them all 'pretenders' too??

dcorc
06-08-2004, 03:30 PM
Hi everyone. I have received a note from someone who didn't have the courage to sign it and I am posting it below with the bad word edited. I am also posting a response to my "perfection" in the thumbnail below. Maybe I should have let it go, but the character assasination is what bothered me as it probably would most of you. Here is the note I received:

[WetCanvas should give you a "XXXshXXter's" or "ConArtist" merit badge.

There are many members at WetCanvas that have downloaded the reference picture and the digital painting of your son from your tutorial and simply layered them together in PhotoShop. They are identical in every minute detail! No one on earth has the skill to freehand [as you claim to do] every detail to within 1/100 of an inch! AND you profess to do the whole process in 4 or 5 hours? AND you state that you're rather new to digital art? LMAO!!!.....you are something! Do you think WC members were born yesterday?
It's shameful that you seek praise and adulation from unsuspecting members in this way. Do you wonder why you don't get as many responses to your posts as others? Because everyone knows that you are a fake... they look, laugh and move on... your not the first [by far] pretender to come along at WC and post doctored photographs as paintings. Yes...some are fooled and heap lavish praise... the majority of us are not fooled, however.(there are many PM's going around about your legitimacy, BTW.)
It taints you obvious talent.It makes one suspicious about the legitimacy of your real paintings. It's not shameful to trace... most of us do to some degree or another... and admit it! You still have to paint the details and that's where the real skill comes in.
I suggest that you stick to posting your "real" art and avoid future embarassment.Ohhh... I'm sure you will go and post some response trying even harder than you have to convince the members that you really are as good as you claim and that you really don't trace over photos or paint over them. I would suggest otherwise.... .
I am one who at first, gave you lavish praise for your skill until I discovered the truth. I'm sorry Lisa, but, I get outraged when I've been "played" a fool.]

Hi Lisa

I think you should pay little heed to rantings such as that above, when they are so demonstrably foolish and misguided, as well as being anonymous, a clear mark of cowardice. The individual who posted that to you has a badly-trained eye, what's more, making quite stupid assertions about "being identical in every detail". (For example, in the painting, the eyes are significantly larger!)

The portrait of your son is quite clearly not a paintover or manip - here's a morph between the retouched photo and the painting:

http://www.dcorc.co.uk/sonmor.avi (Microsoft MPEG-4 codec, 98kb)

which shows quite unequivocally the numerous points of difference between painting and photo. For anyone who has the eyes to look, further comment would seem to me to be superfluous.

Edit - I realised one thing I should have commented - It's a very good portrait! :)

:) Dave

sandge
06-08-2004, 04:36 PM
I had to laugh at the sniffy retort from someone in the Portraiture Forum that digital portraits should only be posted in the Digital Art forum! I, for one, will make sure that any digital portraits I submit to this forum from now on are cross-posted in Portraiture.
Oh, please do! I am always a bit sad that there are many wonderful portraits posted throughout the site in various mediums that never make it to the portraiture forum. It would be lovely to have some more digital work. :)

The portrait of your son is quite clearly not a paintover or manip - here's a morph between the retouched photo and the painting:

http://www.dcorc.co.uk/sonmor.avi (Microsoft MPEG-4 codec, 98kb)

which shows quite unequivocally the numerous points of difference between painting and photo. For anyone who has the eyes to look, further comment would seem to me to be superfluous.

Wow! That makes it clear. Thanks, Dave! :)

themanda
06-08-2004, 04:53 PM
i've stayed away from the portraiture forum as well. i know joel and julie post there frequently, so i've tried, but the reception wasn't very enthusiastic. i didn't get flamed by any means, but didn't feel welcome to continue posting at all. since i'm really just starting out with all of this, i decided my ego probably wouldn't suffer the torments of it well should it happen so i came back home. :) i felt very much like if i didn't say i did digital work i'd be accused of cheating, but by saying straight up that i did my work in photoshop i precluded myself from any real involvement in the forum.

dcorc
06-08-2004, 05:09 PM
Amanda

As an oil painter, (I'm one of the guides in the Oils forum, and the guide :p in the Classical forum), I'd strongly encourage you to post your portraits over on the portraiture forum! The only way to get the anti-digital faction to face up to the reality of digital work being a valid approach, is to expose them to it. As Andrew said, there was one guy who made a pretty silly comment, but don't let people like that put you off - you might even change his mind, as he sees more work!

Dave

Jet
06-08-2004, 05:59 PM
Thanks Dave and Sandge, for the open invitation to our dear members at the digital forum, i'm sure we will be getting better acquainted now that we have the guide and moderator support.
Congrats for making WC a better place to be.

Dave, thanks a lot for taking your time.
we , as guides should strive for getting our members feel right at home , and you have gone beyond the physical resources, and you have used the same digital tools to proove Mr. Cowie that his childish rants didn't have any solid ground. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-May-2004/27782-eusa_silenced.gif
who's the http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jan-2004/27782-eusa_liar.gif now?

There are many digital ways to prove it, so it is of no use to cheat or try to make believe...you won't get away with it.
The same goes for those who make vain accusations just out of frustration and impotence, better prove it to yourself before attempting to go against someone, who has the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise.

Thanks a ton David and be at peace Lisa....
... Regards to both of you whom i proudly count among my group of friends at WC....http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jun-2004/27782-beerchug.gif

:cool:
Thanks Sandge for coming forward.
:cool:

arlene
06-09-2004, 12:58 AM
also for those of you who do still lifes, please post in the still life forum too...of course then you have to put up with my critiques. ;)

Lisa don't let that person put you off. Digital is such a new medium that naturally there's resistance. Ten years ago there was plenty of resistance to colored pencil, and there still is. People are most comfortable with that which they already know.

A Few Pigments
06-09-2004, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by peoplepainter
I am flattered someone thinks I am so perfect that they would go this far to accuse me of being a fraud, but I would appreciate it if they would have the guts to identify themselves, perhaps ask questions to give me an opportunity to respond, not act like a technical expert in Photoshop (without considering it's failings), and above all not call me a "liar" publicly or privately.

Donít let the turkeys get you down. Iíve seen your work here on WC and at your web site and itís excellent. Never lose confidence in yourself because of what someone says. I wish you very good luck with your art career.

peoplepainter
06-09-2004, 06:37 AM
Thanks for posting that comparison! Yes, the eyes are bigger! Oopsy! Well, goes to show you either I am the worst in the world at tracing and need glasses or I just don't have the perfect eye yet.

I agree about posting digital portraits in portraiture as well.

Yeeeha!

Lisa

Freedom's poet
06-09-2004, 10:02 AM
Lisa,

I have read the anonymous letter and what springs to my mind about him/her is....."Methinks thou doth protest too much" lol Seems when someone has their own issues of diminished self worth or talent the only thing that makes them feel better is to trash someone who has confidence and talent....smiles I have gone to your web site and your art is wonderful!! Your anonymous "friend" has real issues. Too bad...lol

hugggssss,

Susan

Michael
06-09-2004, 12:18 PM
Seems when someone has their own issues of diminished self worth or talent the only thing that makes them feel better is to trash someone who has confidence and talent..

One other point,

It should not be an issue. After all, all of the civilized world knows that only what I do is art. Everything else is just nice to look at.

I mean...I mean...I meeeeeaaannnnnn....When I took my box of Crayons and drew stars on my ceiling...That was art...that thing Michael and jello did on the cieling, Nice to look at. When I spray painted my car purple , lime green, fuscia and drove it into the Smithsonian, that was art. The Final Supper, nice to look at.
When My Septic system flooded and I snapped a few pics...That was art. The pics Hansel sombody did, they are Ok to look at, I guess. C'mon!! Black and White? Spend the extra dollar and get color film...puh-leeese!!!!

And the Coup De Ville, When I made this bird looking thing out of clay that was really colorful and stuff, ART!!! The Venus and Milo, well, she would be good to look at if she had arms :evil:

peoplepainter
06-09-2004, 12:34 PM
Thanks for the hugs Susan! Thanks for looking at my site too. You are too kind...

Michael, I told you that you were funny. See? You are. :D

Lisa

Michael
06-09-2004, 12:46 PM
:confused: Funny? I don't get it :p

jocelynsart
06-09-2004, 01:02 PM
Hi Lisa: I am sorry to hear that someone would send such a letter to anyone. Expressing one's opinions and discussing or debating is one thing. Anonymous nasty, unsigned and unstood behind letters or emails are a horse of another colour. You have to consider such a source when dealing with it.
It can be upsetting when people think something of you that you know is not so. But, I say, learn to not worry to much about what people Think or Say, especially when they do not have the nerve to actually sign it or perhaps even do it ambiguously, not using your name. As long as you know it is untrue, then that is what is important. :)
Personally, after all the years spent drawing and painting, long before the Net or digital art was around much, why would anyone with talent need to pretend and for what reason? Anyone can see a talent running through all your work, not just the digital. Maybe digital adds to your talent, as a tool, but it certainly is not creating it.
Take care and again, welcome to WC!
Jocelyn

peoplepainter
06-09-2004, 11:01 PM
Jocelyn, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and support. I am sticking around because of all the nice folks like you!

:)

LadyAlba
06-09-2004, 11:31 PM
Lisa, I know you have finished with this but I just had to say I enjoyed your tut very much and learned alot from it as well as viewing your artwork on your site.

Unfortunately there always has to be a know it all person, I have found, in every forum......the fact that they didn't have enough self confidence in what they were saying to you to sign their name , speaks for itself....I agree with all the other comments on this matter send it to the administrator and move on your work is lovely and there are alot of us that can learn from viewing it. Thank you for posting your work and for the tut! :clap:

peoplepainter
06-09-2004, 11:42 PM
Lady Alba!

Grateful for your support. I really like this site and pretty much everyone I have met so far.

Thanks for looking at my site and I am really happy you enjoyed the tut. I am not the best with explaining how I draw (no one ever asks) so I hope it made sense.

I looked at some of your previous posts as I am trying to get to know everyone, at least by their artwork. You have done some incredible work! I love the birds. And in Photoshop? Impressive. How is your work in Painter going? I just bought it a few months ago. I like it a lot but barely know anyting about it yet. It's not as friendly to me as Photoshop, but the way it simulates painting is much better I think.

Lisa

LadyAlba
06-10-2004, 12:16 AM
Lady Alba!

Grateful for your support. I really like this site and pretty much everyone I have met so far.

Thanks for looking at my site and I am really happy you enjoyed the tut. I am not the best with explaining how I draw (no one ever asks) so I hope it made sense.

I looked at some of your previous posts as I am trying to get to know everyone, at least by their artwork. You have done some incredible work! I love the birds. And in Photoshop? Impressive. How is your work in Painter going? I just bought it a few months ago. I like it a lot but barely know anyting about it yet. It's not as friendly to me as Photoshop, but the way it simulates painting is much better I think.

Lisa
LOL I'm a very visual person , sometimes I don't get much by reading so the more pictures the better! ;o)

Thank you for your nice comments on my birds I love doing them I've found that the stiple brush in PS works the best for them. Painter........still struggling with it but I am determined to master it eventually (we could be talking years here! LOL) I do like the oils in it but am still going back and forth in PS and Painter. ;o)

kbilltv
06-10-2004, 02:41 AM
All litter aside, Your work is amazing. All i want to know is: size and resolution. I say it again; you rock!

peoplepainter
06-10-2004, 06:27 PM
Kbilltv: The boy ws done in Painter. 8 X 10 at 400 dpi. I like a higher resolution to get more detail. Hope that helps!

Lisa

fugitive
08-11-2004, 04:40 PM
It's too hot for enough words, but I do feel your paint, as I have been attacted for years on the subject of painting/cloning/smudging. One persone hounded me for a couple a years, babbling about me smudging photos. If one can't see the difference, they just can't see. Don't worry, take for what it's worth, nothing. :)

SoniKalien
08-12-2004, 06:16 PM
Geez, I go away for a few days and look what happens...

Seriously, nice to see you getting 3 pages of support to a quarter page of negativity. Unfortunately these people are all over the internet - they are part of the internet culture. These are the people that post lots on B-boards, but never have anything of real value to say. These are the people that sit in chat rooms and abuse anything and anyone. These are the people that are so empty in their own lives, the only way they can feel alive is by putting other people down, since they havn't got anything meaningfull to talk about.

These are the people who say painting is pointless when you can get the same results by apply a filter or two. Theses are the people who attack the moral fibre of society, because they feel shortchanged and think the world owes them something. These people have no ultimate goal - they only want people to pity them, unfortunately they go about it the wrong way and only end up generating hate and anger.

Let this be a warning for anyone who wants to be successful, or even dare to try, on the internet. The whole anonymous society that dwells within the net is vastly contaminated with despicable entities, who are quite willing to attack below the belt.

The best way to deal with them (in my experience anyway) is take a deap breath, laugh at the loser, then take joy, no not just joy - take extreme pleasure when you hit the delete button and take a step towards erasing this non-persona.

Anonymous people tend to live anonymous lives.

That is all.

peoplepainter
08-12-2004, 10:08 PM
Sonikalien,

This post was the result of one of the first responses I got when I first joined WC and it bothered me then. Now that I know most people here and really like everyone it doesn't bother me. I have to say your reaction is one of the best and right on. You are obviously extrememly bright but you also have such a succinct way of putting down your thoughts.
The more time I spend on the Internet, the more I realize how true what you said really is. Lot of spineless anonymity out there.
Thanks for responding. You really summed it up.

I'll sign this!

Lisa

fugitive
08-13-2004, 01:16 AM
I could be smart too, if I could spell anonymity, isn't that where Jaws was ruining the swimming?

peoplepainter
08-13-2004, 01:18 AM
You're smart.
And funny. So there!

fugitive
08-13-2004, 01:34 AM
Some accuse me of dumbness, because I'd rather ask questions, than read the manual. I like to go on instinks, and reading is problematic. I hate tuts, reading and making, so I do an acassional mini tut, and don't like esplainging how I do things. After all, it's all there, if one can see. I now have to strive harder to do hair, as you make me wanna be more of a man.
g. :angel: :evil:

peoplepainter
08-13-2004, 01:42 AM
No tut here. For hair, look VERY closely at the mix of colors. Look at the highlights. If you want the hair to look real, then buckle down and draw the strands. That's what I do. I draw almost every stinkin' strand (at lesat chunks of ten hairs at a time). But be warned: Your back will hurt. Your eyes will hurt. Your hand will hurt. Then you will post your wonderful hair-do and someone will critique it anyway. LOL. The key is patience. Patience, my friend.
Lisa

pstewart
08-13-2004, 06:34 PM
I'm glad this thread got bumped to the top of the list since I'd never seen it before. I would never think to question Lisa's ability and talent. Anyone who would is clearly doing so out of pure envy. I know I can never do what you do, but I still admire and appreciate your work, and would never think I could enhance my own ego by trying to tear down a true talent. Some folks live that way, unfortunately. Sad little people...they deserve our pity but, more so, our complete disregard of any opinions they have to offer.

I was happy to find this site (thanks to Jorge, Michael, Amanda, etc.) and felt immediately that the members here are a positive helpful group, like the folks at my own site. Whenever a bad seed invades my site, I am quick to hit the "delete member" key. Why bother with such negativity! Keep painting and ignore the losers. :cat:

peoplepainter
08-13-2004, 07:03 PM
I'm with you Phyllis. I hate that this got revived but oh well. I wish I had had control of the delete button back then. If I received a note like this today I would shrug it off. I was just so new to WC I didn't know anyone. Now I know that almost everyone who hangs out here is great. Quirky like I am, but really wonderful people.

Thanks,
Lsia

van^
08-13-2004, 07:49 PM
I assume this is what you were talking about when you said you 'spazzed' a few months ago. :) Well, it doesnt look like you spazzed at all. You are just passionate about your work and I respect that.

Lately I am feeling like I might have done something to make people not like me too much here. *shrugs* Dont know why, I just feel kind of on the outside here. Maybe its because of my spaz attack last week. *kicks dirt*

peoplepainter
08-13-2004, 08:21 PM
Van,
Yep. That's what I was talking about. I did spaz and I'm not too thrilled the thread has been resurrected but oh well. Maybe someone will learn something. Passionate, yeah but often too sensitive.
As for you, I like you! I'm not just trying to make you feel good (well, I am but I am not saying this for that reason only). I KNOW for a fact that people like you. You artist, you. We are all pretty sensitive I guess. It's the nature of the beast. I for one am so happy you are here. Your knife painting, and your angel painting are my favorites. I am learning things form you. I don't have the patience to save my stuff in process but I sure do love it when other people post WIP's. Thanks for that. BTW, over at the other site where you made top 10 I am a member too. Congratulations on that. They are really hard core. I think people hate me there! So there!
I think if you hang around more you will find the nicest, most accepting and helpful people here. There are a few that spout every once in a while as we all do, but they get over it too. You'll make good friends. Just stick around and give it a bit. Sometimes I think people just want to know you aren't leaving before they warm up, you know? That you didn't just pop in so we could all see your wonderful work only to have you vanish. You know what I mean?
I hope that helps. You are worthy. You are very talented and we can all learn something from you. Just give it a chance and hang in there.
Again, there are so many great people here. I promise you that.

Lisa

fugitive
08-13-2004, 10:35 PM
BTW, over at the other site where you made top 10 I am a member too. Congratulations" were you talking about art wanted? If so, I'm there too.

themanda
08-13-2004, 11:44 PM
Lately I am feeling like I might have done something to make people not like me too much here. *shrugs* Dont know why, I just feel kind of on the outside here. Maybe its because of my spaz attack last week. *kicks dirt*

nah, it just takes a while. :) we're all pretty nice. most of the time. :evil:

wiscojaydub
08-14-2004, 12:33 AM
Lisa, you are like little school kid..running to the teacher... he called me a liar! I personally don't know why the person did not sign his or her name.. because IT'S THE DAMN INTERNET!!! lolol we are adults here and as far as i can tell the first amendment is still in force here! As far as your 25 years of experience goes, it is obvious along with the patience it takes, not to mention all the other factors involved in producing incredible art.... but there are other posters like me who would like feed back on their works.. it's seem's a little cliquish around here! Oh by the way i just did my first self portrait... it kinda exxaggerates my feelings about above mentioned brouhaha....but i had fun doing it. :evil: yours sincerely jaydub

Julianne
08-14-2004, 12:44 AM
I thought I replied to this, but since it was 3am after 12 hours on the comptuer I must have hit the Preview Post button instead...

I'm glad that everyone's chimed in and that you've found that the rest of the WC clan aren't such a bad bunch........ and that you've also received one of the biggest back-handed compliments you could ever possibly get, though of course we prefer the up-front ones that aren't laced in aresnic. I was amazed to read such a letter from a supposed WC member. My experience of this place is that it's pretty supportive.

How could you receive an anonymous email from a purported WC member if it were a PM unless they created a new 'anonymous' account? Or maybe they emailed you from your website using a free address...

Van - I've not been hanging out on the digi forums for very long, but from what I've seen of your posts and artwork so far I love what you're doing, and hope to see more.

Well, it's time to get back to the good stuff - making art! Yes, I'll eventually post some of the digi things I'm doing at the moment, but for now I'm on a roll and don't want to get distracted with creating new discussions...!

Julianne

fugitive
08-14-2004, 01:09 AM
Lisa, you are like little school kid..running to the teacher... he called me a liar! I personally don't know why the person did not sign his or her name.. because IT'S THE DAMN INTERNET!!! lolol we are adults here and as far as i can tell the first amendment is still in force here! As far as your 25 years of experience goes, it is obvious along with the patience it takes, not to mention all the other factors involved in producing incredible art.... but there are other posters like me who would like feed back on their works.. it's seem's a little cliquish around here! Oh by the way i just did my first self portrait... it kinda exxaggerates my feelings about above mentioned brouhaha....but i had fun doing it. :evil: yours sincerely jaydubDoes this image have something to do with this thread, I think not.......................

wiscojaydub
08-14-2004, 01:18 AM
I am just jumping on the band wagon....jaydub

fugitive
08-14-2004, 01:33 AM
It's not a wagon, dub, it's a serious concern to some of us, that make stuff, so good, folks can't tell, we painted it.

wiscojaydub
08-14-2004, 02:05 AM
so you mean to tell me hers and all you guys reputations at stake? I am a newbie at the age of 55 years and i have some remote dreams of eventually adding a little.. mind you little extra cash in my hip pocket and having some fun along the way, i am a courier for a medical system and i work my derriere off for what is considered decent money. Alot of my friends are not so fortunate and their problems are quite severe.. so i just don't see how this is worth all those posts, for a personal problem that should have been kept private. yours sincerely jaydub

Jet
08-14-2004, 08:31 AM
Wisco,
Hi there !!

As you have said about your job, it seems you really appreciate it...
well , for you , and for me all this digital art, and art in general is a hobby , with the possibility of earning some cash...

For Lisa here, this is her main JOB, so i believe that she has a great deal to loose by spreading the word that her work is fake.
She received an e-mail, from a WC member, so it's only logical to come and test the waters here, as to what the consensus is about her work.
We, as her friends are here to reassure her our support, and she feels better now...
That is -in a nutshell- the whole story...

I understand that as a 'foreigner' it doesn't quite click to you, but just think of someone that starts spreading the word that you are a thief or a fraud, and a disgrace for the medical profession,... then you will feel something alike to what she felt when she started getting those e-mails.

One cannot be too careful when something threatens the way we live or what we do for a living...
I guess we all will agree on that one..!! :)

Kind Regards

__________________________
:) Please take 1 minute of your time and let us know, how your computer is connected to the wall (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209066) ...Thanks !!

thepenartist
08-14-2004, 04:03 PM
Hey, PeoplePainter,
Don't let that Goober getcha down, I love your work! Wish I could be a monkey on your shoulder watching you create.

The act of creating is where "art" is... not the results or how it is achieved. Create to your heart's content. That is what art is about. Create, play, enjoy, love, share, then create again. Especially the sharing part, for those of us who wish they can even come close to your talent, gift, ability.. whatever label you wish to put to it. It is work like yours / JCoop and others that inspire me to create, to get better, to improve.
I went to your website and (WOW) you are great. I was blown away by the lifesize of JCoop! Handsome fella, talented, wonderful inspiration, fluent teacher. You also have a beauty that shines through. Every piece you do, makes another being (human or otherwise - giggle), happy. If I were to be on the receiving end of one of your portraits, I would cherish it as if it were priceless. For nothing could replace the hours of love and toil that were used to create. Keep your spirits up, erase that PM, and move on, girlfriend. For each one of the "anonymous" you have hundreds that will step up to the plate, proudly sign their name and toot your horn!
With respect to all:
thepenartist - Kimberlee McPeek