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Paul Corfield
05-28-2004, 02:36 PM
Here's something I'm nearly at the end of. All work so far is just with cyan, magenta and yellow. Any comments?

Paul.

joe_jones
05-28-2004, 03:25 PM
do you have any pic of the steps up to this point?

Looks wonderful.

Joe

Paul Corfield
05-28-2004, 03:37 PM
Thanks Joe.
This is the only other photo I have which was taken at the end of the first day of spraying. I'm happy to describe any methods etc.

Paul.

HF AIRBRUSH
05-28-2004, 05:25 PM
looking great....im not that great in people....so i'll enjoy other painters pin ups...

henk

Caterwallin'
05-28-2004, 07:18 PM
This is looking awesome so far Paul!

I must try only using CMY!
Are you mixing on the painting by layering colors? Or, are you premixing the desired color before spraying?
What do you do when you want to darken an area? (very dark)

Sam

kdkbrown
05-28-2004, 08:00 PM
Paul,

This is fantastic!

Are you mixing on the painting by layering colors? Or, are you premixing the desired color before spraying?

I would like to know also, please share.

Donna

Paul Corfield
05-29-2004, 03:21 AM
This is looking awesome so far Paul!

I must try only using CMY!
Are you mixing on the painting by layering colors? Or, are you premixing the desired color before spraying?
What do you do when you want to darken an area? (very dark)

Sam

Sam/Donna,

You can do it either way. For this one I am mixing the colors first but there is still quite a bit of layering going on because the colors are built up gradually. I think mixing the colors first is a better way to learn. You could progress onto layering the separate colors on the painting but that requires an excellent knowledge of color mixing which you will learn by mixing the colors first until you feel confident about how they interact. If you search around the web you can find cmyk color wheels which would also come in handy.
The dark areas are quite easy because cyan, magenta and yellow all mixed together make black. For the opera gloves in this painting I kept the black towards the blue/purpe range just by adding more cyan and magenta compared to the yellow. I actually use a color called Indigo Blue rather than cyan. It's basically a darker version of cyan and it makes the darker colors easier to mix. Plus with the FW inks the cyan is opaque which isn't what I want for layerling colors.
The actual color mixing is very easy I think compared to say having about 30 different colors in front of you and wondering which ones to mix together to get the color you want. With just three colors to start with you very quickly remeber the common ones and what ratios they are. Most of my skin tones are based around about 5 drops of magenta, two of yellow and one of blue. It's a very simple version of yellow ochre which is easily modified by adding more magenta for pink skin or more blue and yellow for brown skin. I have a big draughtsmans drawing board which is my easel and it's covered in all sorts of color ratios that I write on it when I get one that I like.

Paul.

Penny220
05-29-2004, 08:04 AM
Hi Paul,

Questions, When overmixing in RBY you can use a compliment to cancel, logic tells me this would be true of mixing CMY too but if CMY = black the results could be catastrophic. We know RBY isn't pure color because RBY = brown, but if CMY = black than how do you mix brown. I saw that you posted how to seperate colors for us thank you. I think I have a lot of studying to do now.

Just when you think you have color mixing and theory down, someone teaches you something else. :rolleyes: I'm happy to learn though, I'm the sick puppy that enjoys color theory.

Pin-up. What can I say, yours are always great. Is her blush going to be toned down? How about a line up the back of her stockings?

I saw a pickup truck with a window tint picture, it was your style pin-up on it, was it yours?

Paul Corfield
05-29-2004, 08:27 AM
You only get black if the colors are mixed in equakl amounts. Brown is just red and green so in CMY you could reach it in many ways but you just mix the paints in different ratios. Cyan and yellow will give you your green and then just add small amounts of magenta to reach the desired color. Or you could just mix magenta and yellow in various amounts to get a nice orange color and then add cyan until you reach the correct brown. It's harder to mix black than it sounds, you really just end up with a very dark, almost black purple or a very dark brown etc depending on which color you have added the most of. The colors always seem to remain very pure no matter how dark they go. It's better than RBY where you generally end up with a muddy color quite quickly.

Yes, there will be lines up the stockings, I do them in dark brown pencil at the end. If I do it too early any masking film will pull up the pencil work. I use pencil for the eye lashes, lips etc. It's more natural than airbrushing them plus the pencils are blendable so I can get softer edges and blend colors together. I also use the colored pencils for the hair to do a very detailed underpainting and then just tint it with the airbrush, then individual hairs are scratched out and more layers of color are added to give a great depth the hair.

Not sure about the truck, not one of mine I don't think.

Paul.

ThomasM
05-29-2004, 09:55 AM
Great work, I especially enjoy how artfully you handled the foreshorthing, that is a killer for me. Really looking forward to seeing the complete project.
tom :clap:

hinddee29
05-29-2004, 04:28 PM
Paul this is coming along great. I'm like everyone else I can't wait for the
next update on this.

Shane

Penny220
05-29-2004, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the info Paul. That is the second time that you mentioned that you use scratching techniques. Are you using claybord?

Paul Corfield
05-29-2004, 08:55 PM
This painting is on Schoellershammer 4G illustration board. This is my last sheet. I also have about three sheets of Crescent board left and then I need to find some new supplies. I find the Crescent board wont stand up to any scratching at all as the surface just tears up. The Schoellershammer stands up to a fair bit of scratching but it will tear up if you give it too much abuse. I used to use CS-10 which is a type of clay board and it was my favourite board of all. It's still readily available in the UK but it's so expensive. The nearest thing I have to CS-10 is my home made gesso on masonite boards. A few coats of gesso sanded down smooth is great for scratching back on but it takes a while to prepare and is a messy business.

I've had to modify my technique quite a bit for doing hair because I can't use the scratching technique quite so much. The best I have come up with is doing the hair very detailed in graphite pencil and then airbrushing over it. The graphite layer gives me something that I can lightly scratch back into once I have built up the layers of paint to a finished state. Then I can scratch out the final hairs and give it one more coat of color. It works really well. The graphite layer also works a bit like the black and white underpainting in the cmyk method I outlined in a nother post.

Paul.

Penny220
05-29-2004, 09:09 PM
Is there a particular reason why you don't use claybord?

When you clear your work, what do you use?

I have the painting to do in the park next week. There is going to be 3 animals on a 16 X 20 that I have 6 hours to paint. I have two claybords here and I have been toying with the idea of doing scratching for the fur to speed the process up. I don't want to have to scrap my idea so I have to find away to make my idea work. For clearing because I will be in the park with lots of people around, I'm considering simply clearing it with Goldens GAC500. I can spray it through the airbrush, it will dry quicker, be less likely to run and collect dust particles. Also, it will give a matte finish that won't show the scratching of the board as much. The only thing that bothered me when I used scratch board before is the scratch marks are always visible, that's why I am considering the matte finish.

Paul Corfield
05-30-2004, 06:08 AM
The only reason I don't use clayboard is that it's not readily available in the UK. To be honest, I don't think it's available at all. CS-10 is the nearest to clayboard that we have and at 10 ($18) per sheet I stay well clear of it.

I never clear my work. I don't really see the need. I frame my works behind consevation glass to stop any harmful effects of the sun. The FW inks I use are lightfast anyway.

The scratching technique I've always used is so light that it doesn't mark the surface. I think this is because I sharpen my own blades into a way that lifts off the paint with very little effort. I just use a regular scalpal blade but I put a flat spot on it with some wet+dry sanding paper. While I'm working I sharpen the blade every 15 minutes or so as the edge wears off and you can feel that it's not scraping so efficiently.

Paul.

pr1130
05-30-2004, 09:38 AM
Just out of curiosity, rather than clayboard (if it's not available) have you ever tried "real gesso" (RSG, marble dust and pigment)?

It's takes a bit more effort to make up but the surface is unique and lends itself very well to scratching.

Peter

Penny220
05-30-2004, 09:57 AM
I'd be more than happy to send you claybord, if your interested email me.

Paul Corfield
05-30-2004, 10:36 AM
Just out of curiosity, rather than clayboard (if it's not available) have you ever tried "real gesso" (RSG, marble dust and pigment)?

It's takes a bit more effort to make up but the surface is unique and lends itself very well to scratching.

Peter

I would love to give traditional gesso a try but it's all down to time. All the preparation time etc would need to be accounted for somewhere and in the end the customer would end up paying for it.

Isn't clayboard heavy compared to illustration board Penny? I know artists who have stopped using it so they can keep shipping costs down. As I ship most of my work from the UK to the USA shipping costs would be my main concern just as would getting the stuff shipped here in the first place.

Paul.

Penny220
05-30-2004, 11:11 AM
A 16 X 20 board weighs 742 g. or 26 oz. One thing we forget is that the US postal service is cheaper than any other country. I wouldn't think twice about shipping out a 30 lb box. Shipping just isn't a consideration for us.

Paul Corfield
05-30-2004, 02:43 PM
Does it come in bigger sizes. I generally work on a 20" x 30" board or bigger.

My 20" x 30" double ply Crescent board weighs 26oz and my 20" x 30" Schoellershammer weighs around 18oz.

Paul.

Penny220
05-30-2004, 03:55 PM
larger sizes are 18 X 24 and 24 x 36 the 24 X 36 is quite expensive at $14.88/board US (dick blick catalog). The problem is you can't cut the boards to suit your purpose so what you start with is what you get. Personally I'm still exploring the surface but it seems perfect for your techniques. As far as weight I prefer a rigged surface, as far as price, it's irrelevant in comparision to the end product.

ADCook
06-03-2004, 04:04 AM
[QUOTE=Penny220]The problem is you can't cut the boards to suit your purpose so what you start with is what you get.QUOTE]

Penny,

Just an FYI... Claybord can be cut on a table saw with the right blade. We've done it with great success with the help of a friend who has a great woodworking shop. He used a fine tooth blade. I think he said the blade was around $125 or so - expensive, but it can be done. It has to be fine -tooth so you don't chip the gesso when it's being cut.

It may save you some money to buy bigger Claybord and cut it done as needed if you can find someone with a table saw. You'd also get the benefit of working in non-standard sizes if you wanted.

A.D.

Penny220
06-03-2004, 07:12 AM
AD, thanks for the FYI. I have a table saw, I'll have to give it a try.

Paul Corfield
06-03-2004, 05:11 PM
Here's a couple of new photos showing progress so far.

Paul.

Penny220
06-03-2004, 05:27 PM
What can I say? Very nice, great detail!

Caterwallin'
06-03-2004, 10:55 PM
Paul, this is looking awesome! Do you mostly freehand airbrush the hair? It looks great!

Sam

TopperB
06-04-2004, 12:28 AM
Very, Very nice... Looks real to me... heh, If I only knew how todo that.

ABStan
06-04-2004, 12:34 AM
Paul,

Nice detail and nice compositions!!! you are a master of your craft. Just love it :clap: :clap: :clap:


Stan

Paul Corfield
06-04-2004, 03:53 AM
Paul, this is looking awesome! Do you mostly freehand airbrush the hair? It looks great!

Sam


Thanks all,

Sam, the way I do hair now is to do it all first in graphite pencil. I draw it to a very detailed finished state, almost as if it were just going to be a pencil drawing in it's own right. Then I freehand airbrush layers of color over the pencil drawing which shows through the transparent FW inks. Then I erase any highlights, scratch out some details etc, maybe at a couple more layers of paint. Because all the darks and lights have been defined in pencil first it's a very quick process once it comes to the airbrushing.

I use the same technique on the shoes. I draw it all in pencil first and then just layer on some color, erase highlights etc.

Paul.

HF AIRBRUSH
06-04-2004, 04:01 AM
:eek: this is going to look for real.....this is just awesum...
do you use any mask?...or is this all freehand?
henk

Paul Corfield
06-04-2004, 04:09 AM
Thanks Henk,
I would say it 90% freehand. The only place I reallly mask is where I mask off the main white areas of the board. Because I mostly work from dark to light I can pretty much do away with any type of masking, including hand held masks. I hate any type of masking, it interupts the flow, it's time consuming and looks unnatural if it's used too much. :)

Paul.

ADCook
06-04-2004, 05:48 AM
Thanks all,

Sam, the way I do hair now is to do it all first in graphite pencil. I draw it to a very detailed finished state, almost as if it were just going to be a pencil drawing in it's own right. Then I freehand airbrush layers of color over the pencil drawing which shows through the transparent FW inks. Then I erase any highlights, scratch out some details etc, maybe at a couple more layers of paint. Because all the darks and lights have been defined in pencil first it's a very quick process once it comes to the airbrushing.

I use the same technique on the shoes. I draw it all in pencil first and then just layer on some color, erase highlights etc.

Paul.

Now, that's a cool process. I need to try that sometime (soon!). I hadn't ever tried to essentially finish the drawing and tinting with the airbrush, but it sounds very cool.... makes me want to run down to the studio and sharpen some pencils.

Thanks for sharing that Paul.

A.D.

greenjack
06-04-2004, 08:38 AM
The only place I reallly mask is where I mask off the main white areas of the board. Because I mostly work from dark to light I can pretty much do away with any type of masking, including hand held masks.
Paul.

Blows me away. What about when you're adding the high definition blacks with the skin tones already in place?

Caterwallin'
06-04-2004, 10:04 AM
Thanks for that description Paul, I would love to try that technique! In fact, I have some illustration board here and I think I will do a little practice piece!

The "tinting" process is not new to me, I do it all of the time with fur and white paint, I just never thought of doing it with graphite! Does the same process work for lighter colored hair or even blonde?

Sam

Alan Cross
06-04-2004, 12:13 PM
This is looking great......
Alan :)

Paul Corfield
06-06-2004, 08:32 AM
Blows me away. What about when you're adding the high definition blacks with the skin tones already in place?

Once the skin tones are finished they get covered up while I work on the black or dark areas. What I class as masking is when it's being used to create effects on the painting rather than just for protection from overspray. What I would class as freehand is when I expose an area to be painted and then use no further masking to reach the desired result. I think that makes sense :)

Sam, you can use the pencil effect for very light colored hair but the pencil work would be very light and in some areas non existant. I would basically split the image into it's separate CMYK colors and then I would get my pencil drawing to look like the 'K' or black and white image before I added any color.

Paul.

Caterwallin'
06-06-2004, 09:03 AM
Thanks Paul, I really am going to try this! I love painting my animals, but I want to explore other genres. I need to find my artistic "place" where I belong. I may be bugging you if I hit some rough parts!

Sam

greenjack
06-07-2004, 08:26 AM
What I class as masking is when it's being used to create effects on the painting rather than just for protection from overspray. What I would class as freehand is when I expose an area to be painted and then use no further masking to reach the desired result. I think that makes sense.

Thanks Paul, fully understood.

Paul Corfield
07-04-2004, 05:01 PM
Been busy on other projects but finally got back to finishing this pin-up. Here's a photo of the finished painting.

Paul.

TopperB
07-04-2004, 05:10 PM
very very nice. I like it alot. You do really good work.

clemson
07-05-2004, 05:40 AM
Impressive work as usual Paul. I've been a big fan of yours for years, ever since I found you on Usenet. You really are a league of your own there, and it's always a joy to see your work. Strangely enough, I actually spend more time watching your how-to's of getting a pin-up dressed than I would if I were undressing them. Fascinating!

greenjack
07-05-2004, 08:22 AM
Good to see the finished piece Paul, beautiful work.

Now you're about again I could really use your advice on a couple of points relating to CYMK. Your work has inspired me to try it, and an appropriately fleshy subject.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199076

If I try to mix skin tones and don't dilute beyond about 70% water I still end up with fairly saturated colours. If I dilute beyond this there's a risk of getting 'pooling' and nasty paint effects.

A couple of pointers on achieving those rich blacks and fine skin tones wouldn't go amiss. 'American tan' was OK it its day, but I'm not a huge fan!

Caterwallin'
07-05-2004, 09:27 AM
Awesome job Paul! She turned out fantastic! :clap:

Sam

hinddee29
07-05-2004, 09:52 PM
Paul my hero, you did it again. Outstanding work keep it up.

Shane

ProfessorGreibowitz
07-06-2004, 02:08 AM
Great job! No critique by me.


Tim

HF AIRBRUSH
07-06-2004, 04:23 AM
none? :D

hahahaha....paul looks great !....

henk

masabe
04-07-2008, 12:11 PM
Just thought I would bump this up to the top because I learned a lot from this thread. It is pretty old and I found it by doing a search for Schoellershammer 4G illustration board on google. I am thinking about purchasing some of it. Has anyone else used it, and is it much better than Crescent hot press?

Pilon
04-07-2008, 02:59 PM
Thanks Mark.
I remember reading this one. Very informative !