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Dyin
05-25-2004, 05:34 PM
Getting Started
Basic Marks and Effects

Oil Pastels are very versatile. They can be used with tools, solvents and other mediums. Marks can be applied delicately, robustly, pushed around with brush or tortillon, scumbled, or blended. Different brands will change the appearance also, some will be more strongly pigmented, some waxier and some lay down almost as neatly as soft pastels without the dust. Support can also make a difference, some will have more tooth for grabbing and some will have more texture creating ‘holes’ that may need filled in or can be left to enhance the work.

The only way to know what your brand choice is capable of is to do some playing around on different supports and with different undertones. In John Elliot’s Oil Pastel for the Serious Beginner he suggests we do just that. In my example below I chose 3 colors to start with, primary red, primary green and Hansa yellow Holbeins. I chose a light greenish blue toned piece of Fabriano Tiziano paper. Paper choice can allow you to use the texture as part of your design. Where I press hard you can see the paper gets covered easily, where I just sort of skim the OP you can see the paper texture becomes part of the strokes.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-May-2004/19147-OP_class_June_first_half.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-May-2004/19147-OP_class_June_2nd_half.jpg


In the first group I incised one side of the pastel stick with a bunch of notches. I had not tried this before…John Elliot uses it to great effect for wood texture and the sides of old barn walls. It didn’t work so great on this textured paper for that, but could see it might have a use.
I then jabbed the corner of the stick, I like this one and used it to good effect in a lit city scene and for Christmas tree lights…the pastel sticks up and catches some light play.
Then I laid the stick down and sort of ‘smooshed’ it in place…could make neat bricks.
The next sample shows how one color blends over another.

In the second row I tried hatching (needs practice!), scumbling, different strokes using different pressures during the strokes. Then I did a couple of samples of gradiating one tone over another. Showed how adding white over that color would work and then did a couple scratch examples.

In the third row I used the short side of a Bob Ross palette knife to scrape, did some brushing with an acrylic soft flat brush, used some tissue to blend. Used a color pencil over the OP, showed how pressure would leave smears just like a palette knife would and then used a palette knife to scrape the edge of an OP and then applied it.

The fourth row was all about using acrylic texture gel. I laid down a patch of OP and then thickly applied Liquitex heavy gloss texture gel in patterns on top of it. I let that dry until it was clear (goes on white) and then lightly ran another color over the ridges it had left behind.

In the fifth row I used a kneadable eraser (on Art Spectrum or my marble gesso surface it would have come clean off), used a spoon to burnish, mixed with W&N blending and glazing medium, pulled out my famous rubber tipped cuticle pusher tool and showed how I ‘push’ the color around and finally heated the end of an OP stick with my lighter and mooshed it into the paper.

The last row shows the difference in the ORDER you lay down your color and to the side I tried to show how surrounding colors affect a color.

I’ve been using oil pastels for quite awhile now, but had not sat down to play with them like this. It was fun trying to think of all the ways I could use them and it only took a couple hours. I would like to try some of these effects with different colors and on different supports.

So the assignment for this first technique in the new Oil Pastel Studio is to choose three colors from the brand you like to use. Decide on a support paper and see what effects you can get. Do lots of strokes with different pressures, try different ways of blending. Perhaps try several different papers and different undertones, even black, and share the results here. Even if you’ve been doing oil pastels for years I’m willing to bet that most of us haven’t sat down and really played with them like this. Even if this seems too easy for the more experienced, don’t forget that some of these things will be new to some of the newcomers and help them make choices about mediums, brands and support.

Take your time and really experiment to see what kind of effects you can get. You don’t have to do them like this example…you can use scraps and just do one experiment per scrap…however you choose. The main thing is to get to know what your pastel can do and have fun!

This will be a monthly feature with a new technique or exercise each month, so please feel free to add a suggestion for techniques you are most interested in for future ‘classes’ when you post your results. And don’t forget to share any insights you had or how you achieved certain effects. I’m really looking forward to seeing the results!

Mo.
05-25-2004, 07:40 PM
Well done Sue, looks like you've been having fun. This is a good way for newbies to explore their OP's.
I agree with all that Sue has done here, getting to know your materials before painting with them is a must, so much can be achieved with OP's so unless you experiment and try them out as she has shown here, you will just flounder along, be a master of the medium you use, you do need to practice and be in command of them, I hear so many folks saying "ugh, can't gel with Op's, too difficult".... they are not that difficult, you just need to understand them and learn how to use them, there are no shortcuts, as with any medium, practice, practice and practice, feel them in your hands, get used to handling them, get used to using brushes torchons, cotton buds, paper towels, your fingers even to blend, master them and don't be afraid of them, make them do what you want them to do.

Good luck and don't forget to post your results.

Mo.

Dyin
05-25-2004, 08:22 PM
Well done Sue, looks like you've been having fun. This is a good way for newbies to explore their OP's.
I agree with all that Sue has done here, getting to know your materials before painting with them is a must, so much can be achieved with OP's so unless you experiment and try them out as she has shown here, you will just flounder along, be a master of the medium you use, you do need to practice and be in command of them, I hear so many folks saying "ugh, can't gel with Op's, too difficult".... they are not that difficult, you just need to understand them and learn how to use them, there are no shortcuts, as with any medium, practice, practice and practice, feel them in your hands, get used to handling them, get used to using brushes torchons, cotton buds, paper towels, your fingers even to blend, master them and don't be afraid of them, make them do what you want them to do.

Good luck and don't forget to post your results.

Mo.

Thanks Mo...I learned tons from you and Wendy on OPs when I first came here, you were great teachers! :clap:

MKathleen
05-26-2004, 12:23 AM
:clap: Excellent Job Sue! :clap: I'm learning too :D

Meldy
05-26-2004, 12:49 AM
Sue this is GREAT!!! I am going to follow this tomorrow while I rest from my actual OP painting. Can't get enough practice!!! I am really glad that I decided to jump into OP, I am learning to really like them. So many possibilities for the future.

Dyin
05-26-2004, 12:53 AM
Thanks, Kathy! :)

Meldy, I'm so glad we'll be keeping you around. You add a lot of enthusiasm and it's fun to share your learning experience...I think you and OPs are a natural..can't wait to see what you do in the future. Don't forget to post your results! I'm really interested to see what different brands do too.

Harm Verbeek
05-26-2004, 05:09 PM
Hello,

I'm in with this. I just bought a new paintingpad of Hahnenmühle
Bugra 130 gr/m2 specially made for pastels and oilpastels. It has 14 sheets in seven colors 14,2 x 18,9 inches, It looks good. Each page has also a protective sheet. Its a lot rougher then the Fabriano I mostly use and this june task is a good manner for me to discover the possebilities of this paper.
I'll show when 'm ready.

Dyin
05-26-2004, 05:16 PM
Harm, I've never used this paper but have heard about it, so I am also interested to see how it works. Please let us know what you think of it and could you try to remember to describe the texture a little? Thanks for joining...can't wait to see!

cjkelly
05-28-2004, 06:28 PM
What a great new feature Sue!
This is just what I need to help with my transition from dabbler to do-er! :D
I managed to get hold of a few loose sticks of Cray-pas Expressionists while I was away - slowly adding to my collection of OP's. So this will be a good exercise.

cj

ArtsiePhartsie
05-28-2004, 06:43 PM
WoW !!! Thanks for this article, it is just what I needed. I'm being 'called' to OP's and am not quite sure of where to start. You've made my day with this...

Now, will a small set be ok to start with? What brands are decent?

Thanks again, I can't wait to get some oil pastels and give it a go!

~Artsie

Dyin
05-28-2004, 06:53 PM
cj, glad to have you join us! :clap:

Artsie, small is good if you are just beginning. You can buy individuals or look at small sets. Try www.dakotapastels.com and see what they have. Caran d'Ache is a good professional brand to try. I like Holbein best, but they are the most expensive. Sennelier is also professional, some like them, but I find them difficult to work with.
There's a thread here to do with supports, so check that out to see what papers work best.

prestonsega
05-29-2004, 02:19 PM
WoW !!! Thanks for this article, it is just what I needed. I'm being 'called' to OP's and am not quite sure of where to start.

~Artsie

Artsie...I too am hearing the "call" . What's up with that???..The universe is an interesting place to be.

Sue....I have volunteered you to be my leader on this journey...It's your fault...you shouldn't be such a good artist!

Dyin
05-29-2004, 09:05 PM
Preston...I'd keep one eye open...I like to take side trips a lot :p So glad you'll be joining us!!!! :clap:

lorna12
05-30-2004, 02:32 PM
This is a great idea, Sue. I know it will help me immensely in learning how to use my op's. I'm going to give it a whirl. Thanks for sharing...I'm already looking forward to the next installment.....a whole month away? :(

Dyin
05-30-2004, 03:41 PM
Well, am sure the future ones will get more involved so will take longer. I don't know everything :eek: :rolleyes: so will take some researching on my part and just wanted to get our feet wet on this one. Please let me know things you would like to know about and learn when you post your results :)

Harm Verbeek
05-30-2004, 05:39 PM
Hello everybody,

I've been experimenting with the OP's I most use. van Gogh, Latoya and CrayPas specialist. I've tried to do several same experience on for me new paper Hahnemuhle Bugra.
The OP pastels heve different structures. Van Gogh (1) is pretty stiff, CrayPas (3)a little softer and smoother and Latoya(2) is really smooth.
a) are just the colors I used.
b) I mixed the colors with my finger You see a little difference in the mix. I tried to make the same amount of movements with my finger, but you don't know the difference in pressure.
c) is red and blue over Yellow
d) is yellow and blue over red
e) is red and yellow over blue.
You see that the blue of the Latoya doesn't easy use it as a cover.
while the red and yellow keeps it color better on the blue.
f) is just the three colors painted firmly near eachother.
g) is covered these three colors with terpentine. I just rub it over the colors to see how it mixed.
h.) is each color seperatly used with terpentine and then tried how the other colors were when go over it.
i)I tried how one kind of pastel was when you use it over another kind of pastel.
j) I covered red and yellow with blue and then draw in it with a toothpick,
except with latoya there i coverd blue and yellow with red, because I knew already that blue isn't easy to use as a cover.
k, l an m are just several structures.
n, o and p, i did on the other side of the paper because it has an other structure.
I put the several OP-patels on the paintin so you can see what I used.

Bugra paper is 130 gr paper that has lines over the page what is in the page. Easy when you want to draw something because you can measure things.
One side is pretty rough it takes a lot of pastel, bur you can do several layers. The other side is smoother. I for myself find the paper a little light. You must be careful not to krinkle it.

Greeting Harm

Dyin
05-30-2004, 05:53 PM
good one Harm...A+ ! I hope you had fun and it looks like you learned a few things about what works best over what. The Latoya OPs look like they apply pretty nicely. I had not heard of them. The paper sounds interesting for drawing, but might need better paper for good work. What other things are you interested in learning about in particular?
Do you think you like using turpentine? Thanks for joining in...the weekly sketch will start Tuesday so that might be fun to try too. :)

CarlyHardy
05-30-2004, 08:35 PM
Here's some homework!

I have Pentel oil pastels, Loew/Cornell pastels and Caran DAche water soluble pastels. Are the water solubles the same as the others except they can be blended with water?

I kept with limited colors so I'd remember what I did on each :) This is on Canson, smooth side.

Another question....do you usually work dark to light or light to dark? I found that some colors layered better than others.

Didn't like using my finger for blending....I used the end of a big round brush (it was handy :)) All of this was done with the L/C pastels....some were creamier than others but they all painted on well.
carly

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-May-2004/250-homework.jpg

Dyin
05-30-2004, 09:17 PM
wow....you did SUBJECTS!!! Another A+! I've never used water soluable, but Mo and Kat have I believe, so maybe they can tell you if they're the same. I started out with the LC's so know what they are like. I definately lean toward the pointillistic look, it goes with what i'm working on...in a sense it's broken color and it sure makes things come alive! Good gradation with the strokes one too. Maybe some others will try to do it with shapes like this, I should have thought of that! Thanks for joining in, Carly!

CarlyHardy
05-31-2004, 11:54 AM
More Homework! :D

The ribbon and objects below it are done with CaranDAche water solubles. They reacted much like a crayon when laying down the color, but not waxy feeling. As soon as the water is touched to them, they dissolve and feel sort of like gouache. I think you could overdo the painting, but the wash effect would be nice for an underpainting. However, not sure why I'd do it like this when actual watercolor would be much faster!

If you wanted your oil pastels to have a watercolor look, the water solubles would work well.

The two larger blocks (got tired of small stuff :)) are both Crayola Portfolio Water Soluble Oil Pastels. Love the big size of these sticks! and they were surprisingly creamy....you can put down a lot quickly. However, I think the colors are not as sharp and bright as they appear on the stick. The left block is one layer of color not blended....the right block is blended with water. Considering the price, I'd purchase more if the colors were more varied.

Not a lot of water needed for either brand....too much and it will become drippy.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-May-2004/250-homework2.jpg

Dyin
05-31-2004, 12:09 PM
Carly, your exercises are sure fun to watch. And it's a lot of good info for the rest of us. I'm scared to death of wc...too hard to control for me...but this could be an option since you can lay the color first and then add the water. I would definately choose the Caran d'Ache...nice colors there. Thanks...got any others to test? :evil: :D

CarlyHardy
05-31-2004, 01:06 PM
I have a 50% off coupon for Michaels :D Will go by there later and see what I can find. May pick up some more pastel ground and use it on matboard...then jump into a 'real' paintings.

One question....I took the wrappers off my sticks - do you leave them on? I don't mind touching the sticks and I like to lay them on the side for broad strokes. The CaranDAche's are rather skinny....I like fatter but they did have good color.

Also have a 10% coupon for ASW online....will check the price of some Holbeins later....ok...now you're thinking addictive personality...:D

....you could be right!
carly

Dyin
05-31-2004, 01:46 PM
I have a 50% off coupon for Michaels :D Will go by there later and see what I can find. May pick up some more pastel ground and use it on matboard...then jump into a 'real' paintings.

One question....I took the wrappers off my sticks - do you leave them on? I don't mind touching the sticks and I like to lay them on the side for broad strokes. The CaranDAche's are rather skinny....I like fatter but they did have good color.

Also have a 10% coupon for ASW online....will check the price of some Holbeins later....ok...now you're thinking addictive personality...:D

....you could be right!
carly

The Holbeins don't have wrappers! Caran d'Ache wrappers are a pain to get off, which I think gr8pets mentioned in the brand thread. And Senneliers...whew, afraid they'd stick to my fingers (the whole stick!) if I took them off...but they get eaten up so quickly I might as well. :)
Lucky you...more supplies!!! They always look so gorgeous brand new in the box!!!

Dyin
05-31-2004, 02:06 PM
Ok...decided to try Carly's way...objects, and this time compare all three professional brands...Holbein top left, Caran d'Ache neopastels top right, and Senneliers bottom. I chose, as close as I could, the same three colors...an orange/yellow, a blue/red, and ultramarine, which is a red/blue. I did the blending ONLY with the pastel sticks themselves. I spent the least amount of time blending the Holbeins. The Senneliers took twice as long and the neopastels THREE times as long. I like the blend of the Holbeins best and in RL I could have used different tones to get more subtle effects...I don't get that choice with the other two. Senneliers are best suited to blending with a tool or for a rich painterly effect I think...but boy...they just disappeared on this Art Spectrum colorfix surface. The Neopastels got ate almost as fast...it barely effected the Holbeins. My hands got LEAST messy with the unwrapped Holbeins, most messy with the Senneliers. The Neopastels were hardest to blend, which surprised me, I thought they were closer to the Holbeins. It wanted to pick up the underlayer the most...I think they are the waxiest. But I've gotten good results with them before, am thinking I'm just not used to the texture. Senneliers may be cheaper, but I think I'd have to re-order constantly, they've been used the least and yet are the most worn down.
Here's the results....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-May-2004/19147-three_brand_OP_test.jpg

Harm Verbeek
05-31-2004, 04:42 PM
Hello

By doing this excercise I did get aware of the difference between the several sort OP indeed each blend different. I most learn by just doing I'm not a real theoretic person who thinks about a viewpoint and so on I make a painting and see or hear what's wrong or can be better. It must feel right.
So i try a lot and look what other people do p.e. in this thread.
Latoya is an Belgium OP. It has only 24 colors and it is really soft like sennelier. I most use it at the and of a painting to make accents or a glow of blue on the background.
I'see if I can do the weekly sketch, next week I go on vacation to France Bretangne for three weeks.

Dyin
05-31-2004, 04:52 PM
oh, that sounds like a lovely vacation! I hope you have a wonderful time.
The LaToya sounds interesting and that's good to know. I appreciate your sharing your thoughts with us, I think seeing and doing is the best way to do everything!

Mo.
05-31-2004, 08:01 PM
Oh my, you folks are moving on these exercises, haven't had chance to do any comparisons with the pastels I have, but I'm surprised at your observations of the Caran D'ache Sue, I find them so easy to blend, see my plagiarist post, that was done with finger blending, Senneliers I find harder to blend as they are more translucent, so use a brush slightly dampened with turps with those.

Harm.... you are obviously going to be a dedicated Oil pastellist, I'm very impressed at your findings and excercises, keep it up, you are obviously having fun and doing so well.

Carly.... You amaze me at how quickly you are gelling with these, maybe no surprise :) I have a set of Caran D'ache water soluble, rather like them, I have a painting which I'll post in a seperate thread that I did some time ago, when doing the painting I came across a happy discovery, which I'll explain in the thread.
Great stuff shown here.

Mo.

CarlyHardy
05-31-2004, 11:41 PM
Didn't buy anything at Michaels except Liquitex pumice gel....sounded like I could use it on my matboards for a pastel ground. I've tried the Golden pastel ground on the boards but they were out of that. Nothing new in the pastels department :D.

I started a 10x10 OP on Wallis tonight but am finding that the tooth disappears after a couple of colors....is that normal? I'm using the LoewCornell pastels. Began with the watersolubles for an underpainting which really worked well...they disappear and just leave the color :) but now I need more layers! Can it be sprayed with fixative....like the soft pastels? I'm blending the layers as I go....should I wait until I have more color before blending....

Should I go back to my apples? LOL
carly

Dyin
06-01-2004, 12:01 AM
Didn't buy anything at Michaels except Liquitex pumice gel....sounded like I could use it on my matboards for a pastel ground. I've tried the Golden pastel ground on the boards but they were out of that. Nothing new in the pastels department :D.

I started a 10x10 OP on Wallis tonight but am finding that the tooth disappears after a couple of colors....is that normal? I'm using the LoewCornell pastels. Began with the watersolubles for an underpainting which really worked well...they disappear and just leave the color :) but now I need more layers! Can it be sprayed with fixative....like the soft pastels? I'm blending the layers as I go....should I wait until I have more color before blending....

Should I go back to my apples? LOL
carly

lol! I haven't used the Wallis in awhile and can't remember how it worked. I lose the 'tooth' on my own marble gesso surfaces but it still holds the pastels. But it sounds like you can't add any more. I usually can get a lot of blended layers down on my surface. But lately I've been adding a layer of clear acrylic gel, then layer, more gel, and layer. But that has been to get texture. But it would work as a fixative. You can use a texture gel and brush it out flat or a matte gel...which completely disappears. Hope that helps...surface can make a big difference...maybe these pastels fill the tooth more easily because they're waxier.

CarlyHardy
06-01-2004, 12:12 AM
Thanks, Sue, I'll try the acrylic gel...what can it hurt? LOL You're a great instructor :) I feel like I have my own private tutor :D
carly

Dyin
06-01-2004, 12:35 AM
lol...in between reading Dean Kootz chapters I was thinking about when I used the Loew-Cornells. Don't think I could get more than a couple layers out of them. So think it's the OPs and not the paper on this one. I wish I knew more, but like sharing anything I've learned so glad it helps!

Pat Isaac
06-01-2004, 08:30 AM
Hi Sue,

What a great idea! When I go to my studio today I will try and work up some examples for this site. I use several different supports and OPs. I'll post tomorrow.

Pat

Dyin
06-01-2004, 09:38 AM
Can't wait to see, Pat!

Pat Isaac
06-01-2004, 04:44 PM
Hi Sue,

Well, I don't have any pictures of techniques yet, but I will tell you what I use. I have tried lots of papers(Canson, Fabriano, watercolor cold pressed) and I am now sold on Sennelier LaCarte paper as it has a cardboard backing to prevent the oil from going through. I also LOVE Wallis sanded paper as it is very forgiving and takes a lot of abuse. I am now experimenting with Sennelier #D360 (which is a white paper for OPs) and putting a Colorfix ground on it. I havae yet to work on this so I will let you know how it is. I do not like a lot of texture to the paper so these work good for me. I also like to work on a colored ground as opposed to white. When I use Wallis I apply an oil wash of color to the paper. There is a problem with the LaCarte paper, at least for me. You can't erase on it so if it is a detailed drawing subject I do it on another piece of paper and transfer it.

As for oil pastels I use primarily Sennelier and Holbein. I love the buttery feeling of Senneliers and I just discovered that they now have a large one
called LaGrande! I just ordered some and can't wait to try them. I also use R&F pigment sticks in conjunction with some of my work. They are great for covering large areas and keeping things more painterly, then you can add detail with the pastels.

I feel like I am rambling so I'll quit for now and maybe I'll have some questions.

Moving on,

Pat

Dyin
06-01-2004, 05:32 PM
Hi Pat! You just ramble away...that's what forums are for lol! Lot's of good information there. What are R&F pigment sticks????

Pat Isaac
06-02-2004, 04:59 PM
Hi Sue,

R&F pigment sticks are oil paint in a stick form. They are about 1/2 inch thick and 5" long. They are wonderful and buttery. Can you tell I like juicy and buttery? They dry in about 2-3 days and form a skin for protection which can be rubbed off upon use. They are great for covering large areas and oil pastel can be added for detail. They can be spread out with turpentine and a brush, but I don't add any solvent. I sometimes use my fingers to spread the color and I always wear latex disposable gloves. It gets messy. I discovered these paint sticks when I taught school and we used a student grade called Shiva. They are much harder and do not have the range of brilliant colors. I am attaching a piece that I did using both meduims.
How did you get the OPAI web site attached to yor profile?

Pat

Dyin
06-02-2004, 05:10 PM
oooooh, that is lusciously buttery rich! :D I think I might like those! Do you varnish when you are done? I noticed regular oil paints sort of lose their lustre if they're not varnished.

Ok...right above where you reply is a row of symbols to the right of where you can create bold, indented and underlined words. The one with a globe and like a paperclip below it is to put in a hyperlink. Click on it...enter the words you want displayed as the link, and then on the next one paste in the URL address of your page there.
IF this stuff isn't there, then you need to go to My WC!, edit options, and there's a place to check for Message Editor Interface, pick Standard Editor, Extra formatting controls...then that and smiley faces etc will show.

Mo.
06-02-2004, 07:08 PM
Hi Sue,

R&F pigment sticks are oil paint in a stick form. They are about 1/2 inch thick and 5" long. They are wonderful and buttery. Can you tell I like juicy and buttery? They dry in about 2-3 days and form a skin for protection which can be rubbed off upon use. They are great for covering large areas and oil pastel can be added for detail. They can be spread out with turpentine and a brush, but I don't add any solvent. I sometimes use my fingers to spread the color and I always wear latex disposable gloves. It gets messy. I discovered these paint sticks when I taught school and we used a student grade called Shiva. They are much harder and do not have the range of brilliant colors. I am attaching a piece that I did using both meduims.
How did you get the OPAI web site attached to yor profile?

Pat

Hi Pat, great painting you have there, I've heard about these oil sticks/bars, they are quite expensive aren't they? I'd love to try them but some time ago there was a little debate in the Pastel forum as to whether they could be classed as pastels, it was decided that they were really more suited to the oil forum, :rolleyes: Hmmmm. well dunno, as we use other media for underpaintings such as acrylics, and water-colour, so why not oil sticks?

A little more info from you about them would be good, do you mix the colours on your support or can you mix them before you apply them to your surface?
I have mixed Op's before applying them to a support by stroking which colours I want onto water-colour paper, mixing one over the other, then picking up the blended mix with a brush dampened with turps, not that easy but it did work up to a point, I would imagine oil sticks could be used in this way too?
Would love to hear more about this medium from you.
Mo.

CarlyHardy
06-02-2004, 11:08 PM
Pat,
your painting is so luscious!! Where do you get oil sticks? I love new goodies!


Sue, I'm learning!! For the weekly sketch, I started with all the lights, then worked toward the darks. Ran out of time for finishing with the darkest darks, but it worked!! and I'm finding that the Portfolio (don't know where they came from) OP's are really nice and creamy. They cover really well!
carly

Dyin
06-02-2004, 11:46 PM
Yeah, Carly...I saw it!!! Hmmm...creamy huh? Well, that's good! That's sort of how I think of the Holbeins. You looked like you were quite comfortable with them, did you just use them straight with no tools?

CarlyHardy
06-03-2004, 01:29 AM
Sue,
I don't even know how to use tools yet....except for my spoon shaped sculpture tool! The hydrangeas was done without blending....I just kept laying on the oilies! Knew I had to work fast...lol! It was fun.
carly

Dyin
06-03-2004, 09:49 AM
Sue,
I don't even know how to use tools yet....except for my spoon shaped sculpture tool! The hydrangeas was done without blending....I just kept laying on the oilies! Knew I had to work fast...lol! It was fun.
carly

I love when you can just put them on with no tools, but experimenting is a huge part of the fun in OPs for me...I love found tools. When I sculpted and did pottery I had tons of neat stuff...Chopper even got me a set of old dentist tools...those were WAY cool!

prestonsega
06-03-2004, 12:31 PM
Pat...I glad to meet you...I just had to comment on your painting...The composition is so simple, straight forward and powerful....My eye slides down the handrail into the flowers and keeps circling around the picture plane,,,,the use of shadows to frame the subject leaves no doubt as to your focal point......simply beautiful...even enviable!!! I shan't even speak of the expert technique involved. :cool:

Sue...... :music: THEY'RE HERE :music: Now I find myself intimaded. :eek:

Dyin
06-03-2004, 01:32 PM
Pat...I glad to meet you...I just had to comment on your painting...The composition is so simple, straight forward and powerful....My eye slides down the handrail into the flowers and keeps circling around the picture plane,,,,the use of shadows to frame the subject leaves no doubt as to your focal point......simply beautiful...even enviable!!! I shan't even speak of the expert technique involved. :cool:

Sue...... :music: THEY'RE HERE :music: Now I find myself intimaded. :eek:

Yay Preston!!!! Ha...if I can whip those suckers into submission so can you...aren't they purty all brand new??? Come on....time to get them dirty lol!!! :clap:

Pat Isaac
06-03-2004, 03:04 PM
More about the oil sticks. I do not glaze the finished piece as it seems to stay bright, maybe because of the addition of oil pastels. I know there have been many debates about mixing these two mediums, but I think they are both oil based and can be treated in the same way. Many people mix prismacolor with them as that also has a similar base. The purists of any medium think that only the one medium should be used. I tend to mix my colors right on the support, though the sticks are creamy enough to mix on a palette with some turps. Experiment and do whatever feels comfortable for you.And, yes, they are expensive $8 - $14 a stick. The only place I can get them is from Pearl Paint on the internet. I started small and kept buying a few at a time until I had a good range of colors. I have now fould thes LaGrande Sennelier oil pastels which I'm going to use on my next painting. They came today and I can't wait to get started. Thanks Preston for your nice words about my piece. I take it you just received some new oil pastels. Go for it and have fun.

Pat









member link for OPAI(oil pastel association international) (http://www.OPAI.org)

Dyin
06-03-2004, 04:07 PM
yay, you got your link in! You have the general OPAI site, not your own page though :( Those oil sticks do sound like fun....on my list. :D And you know, I forgot to tell you about putting it in your signature line on your profile page...looks like you figured it out though!

eileenclaire
06-03-2004, 07:20 PM
Pat, that is a gorgeous painting! I have been thinking of trying the oil sticks. I was going to try the Shivas, but from what you are saying it sounds like the R & F are much better quality. Thanks for sharing the info on those.

lorna12
06-03-2004, 07:22 PM
Wow this thread is interesting! Pat, I sure hope I can do a painting as awesome as that in ops one day!

Well I finally played and experimented a bit with mine today (haven't had time all week to paint at all!) I did a mini version of yours, Sue and added a couple of things I wanted to try. One being how to make flesh tones (there's got to more ways than this but I tried), the other more sky colors. Oh and also tried different paper...loved how they blended on Strathmore Bristol! I found they blended well without tools, though I used some on here. Mind this is mostly only 2 layers.

It's very amatuerish but I'm starting to get the feel for them. Here's a pic. of what I did.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2004/11613-Holbein_experiment.jpg

Oops, I see I didn't print big enough...sorry about that!

Dyin
06-03-2004, 07:55 PM
Cool, Lorna...it doesn't matter so much what we see, but what you see. Fleshtones can be acheived using blue, red, violet and yellow and a white to acheive the correct tones. You just apply very lightly and then spread it with the white, adding a touch more color til you get what you want...I did a good face with only those colors and some browns for hair. Because these are good pigments I use, it doesn't come out pasty, no white actually shows, just a very pale yellow or blue or rose...quite a nice effect! Thanks for joining in and keep trying things...it's the best way to learn. :)

prestonsega
06-03-2004, 09:36 PM
Here's my homework.......I didn't do the exercises you suggested......I had to paint "things" on my first go, but I did stay within the academic realm....Not sure if I consider myself a "serious" oil pastel student, but I'm ordering the book you recommended. It sounds like a good addition to any artist's collection. (we do love books, don't we?)....I still have time to do the dinner and a movie thing tonight.

My initial thoughts as to OP's;
1..they blend themselves on the 2nd layer better than do the softies
2. I am able to get rich darks, even with this intro set
3. No dust, hence great for traveling
4 More precise application
5 no crumbling

Not throwing my softies away yet! Picking up a lot of tips in this thread!

(on Wallis)

Dyin
06-03-2004, 09:41 PM
I can tell by your initial thought list that you're an OP convert...you just don't know it yet lol! No, don't throw away the softies, each has their use, I just can't handle the dust. Good exercises, seeing how they work is what counts. You got the Neopastels, right? You got good gradation with them for a first time...can't wait to see the sketch!!! :clap:

eileenclaire
06-03-2004, 10:44 PM
Hey, we've got us a convert! Preston, that is great, so glad you are enjoying them. Can't wait to see what you do!

cjkelly
06-04-2004, 02:35 AM
Just checking in to let you know that I still have good intentions ;)
....maybe next week I'll be able to play with my small collection as soon as I've got these coupla softy paintings framed for the show.....time, time, I need more time! :(

cj

HelgaP
06-04-2004, 03:10 AM
Pat, can I just say I adore your flower composition, it's absolutely inspirational. I think the pigment sticks you've used are the same as the Winsor & Newton's I still want to get - oil paint in bar form. I just have to get a few to try out. Problem is, what if I really like them? I'll never be able to afford a habit like that!

Pat Isaac
06-04-2004, 08:21 AM
Great job Preston. Wonderful rich colors. That is what I like about OPs - rich color. There are a few brands of pigment sticks. Shivas, being the hardest and then W&N oil bars, Sennelier paint sticks, and then R&F being the softest. They all form a skin which needs to be removed before using them each time. This protects them from drying out. I have never done an entire painting with these, that would be an expensive habit as Helga says. What's nice about them is that they totally dry and then you can add OP details.

:p Pat

fugitive
06-04-2004, 04:22 PM
What color is that paper, as it looks lite blu, but monitors are weird. Is it posible to scan a piece and give the RGB number? Prolly too much work. Thanks.

Dyin
06-04-2004, 05:07 PM
my paper, Greg??? If so it is a blue/green...Fabriano Tiziano...if that's it, let me know...I'll try to get that for you later.

Uncle Nasty
06-04-2004, 06:09 PM
Good evening everyone,

I found this superb site earlier this week as I was looking for help regarding watercolours, I had not painted for 8 years. Help, ideas and very useful critique flew in. In the last 3 hours I have found some oil pastels that my son was going to use at school, but he never did, so I have launched myself into this new world.
As a newbee of 3 hours and this thread of 1 hour please tell me what paper to use etc. I have been using a normal A4 sketch pad (not cartridge paper) so will that do or is there some "Special Stuff" I need to look for? Descriptions would be good as trade marks differ here in England.
Thank you to the lady for placing the details at the start of the thread, I feel it will answer many of my questions of what do I do with this stuff. :clap:

Dyin
06-04-2004, 07:00 PM
Hi Uncle Nasty...that's some moniker! Just starting out the sketch paper will work, you won't get your best results with it, but it's good to see what the oil pastels can do. Here's a link to a thread about papers that might help you out...I'm pretty sure you can get Art Spectrum Colorfix there.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191193
take a look around at the different threads, it'll give you a good idea of all the things you can do with these oil pastels. Welcome to WC and the OP forum!

Mo.
06-04-2004, 07:03 PM
Hi Uncle Nasty, Hope you don't live up to your nick.:) A warm welcome to you, this is a great place to be.

Just recently a thread was started on this very subject click on the link below for lots of info on papers and surfaces. This will answer a lot of your questions, but if the answer you need is not there, don't be afraid to ask okay?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191193

It can be very confusing starting a new medium, so much info here to read, you will also find lots more in the Pastel Library thread.

Do you know what brand the pastels are?
Cheers,
Mo.

prestonsega
06-12-2004, 01:48 AM
Boy, this thread came to a screeching halt!!! That can only mean one thing.... everyones painting :clap:

As I'm new to ops, many of my discoveries are going to be old knowledge to some, but last night I found that the rectangular white plastic eraser is a great tool for manipulating the ops

Dyin
06-12-2004, 09:38 AM
Hey Preston...that's great. I use a kneadable for a lot of stuff, I can make a point with it and clean an edge or soften a layer. Is this the kind that comes in a little cardboard wrapper? Did you do your waterfall with it?

prestonsega
06-12-2004, 10:45 AM
Is this the kind that comes in a little cardboard wrapper? Did you do your waterfall with it?

"Yes"to both above questions....(just make sure it fits in your pocket :D lol)

Dyin
06-12-2004, 10:58 AM
"Yes"to both above questions....(just make sure it fits in your pocket :D lol)


not a problem....less'n it's a shirt pocket...snork!

Lucky Lola
06-12-2004, 09:02 PM
I just bought some oil sticks (R&F) and the blender. Do you keep them in the fridge so they don't get too soft? Any particular technique? I love the colors but not really sure how to use them. A little help please...
Thanks

Dyin
06-12-2004, 09:25 PM
Vivian...I've never used oil sticks...think they are a stick form of oil paint. Why don't you ask this in a new thread so some others see it who may have used them. Sorry!

Pat Isaac
06-13-2004, 08:29 AM
Hi Vivian,

I use pigment sticks quite a bit in conjunction with OPs. I use the R&F brand also as I LOVE the richness of the colors and the softness of the stick. I do not keep them in the frig, tho I wouldn't leave them in the sun either. They are actually oil paint in stick form and there are many ways you can use them. You can mix them with solvent and use them like oil paint, but I prefer to just apply the color, mixing right on the support. Your support can be canvas or paper that is made for oil pastel. Sennelier La Carte, Wallis, Sennellier #D340, or any of the boards that have been coated with Gesso.
I usually start a painting by applying the local color and then building up the lights and darks from there. I am starting a painting now and am taking pictures of the process so I will be posting a thread on that soon. I will send a painting now that I did with pigment sticks and then the detail with OPs. I hope this helps a little. :)

Pat

eileenclaire
06-13-2004, 10:14 AM
Thanks for sharing that Pat. The painting is gorgeous! I'm poised to make a purchase of the R&F sticks myself. I'm thinking of buying the colors that make up John Howard Sanden's palette (he's the author of Portraits from Life).

You said you put the OPs on top for details. How long does it take for the oil paint to dry when using the R&F sticks?

I can't wait to see your WIP!!!

Lucky Lola
06-13-2004, 10:34 AM
Thanks Pat for your response. Your painting is beautiful. What % is OP vs oil stick? So do just keep them in the wrapper they came in and apply like a stick? Do you have to peel the skin off? I only bought a couple of colors, your're right they are great colors. I did get the blender and that is so soft I popped them in the fridge. Hoping non of my family thinks it is string cheese.LOL

I currently am using OP on a primed canvas and I blend with turp/liquin mix using a brush. Is there a difference in the drying time? I fix and varnish my paintings so no glass is required or framing when I use gallery wrapped.

Dyin
06-13-2004, 12:44 PM
Pat, that's beautiful! How about a close up detail? :)

Pat Isaac
06-13-2004, 01:10 PM
Wow, colored string cheese!lol :D Vivian - I'm not sure of % but oil stick is pure oil paint and OPs are held together with a binder. % of binder depends on the brand. I keep the wrappers on mine and the skin peels off by rubbing it on a piece of paper. Oil sticks dry overnight or in a few days depending on the brand,(R&F sticks take a few days), so I use the OPs when I have finished with the sticks as OPs never really dry. I don't use any varnish or anything so I frame under glass. I did try liquin with the OPs a few times, but didn't really like the shine. Then again, I don't know if I used it correctly.

Sue, Here is a close up. Not sure if it will get too pixelized.

Dyin
06-13-2004, 01:22 PM
Thanks, Pat...love details! So you mainly use the OPs for highlights over this then? Do the oil sticks kind of dull out over time? I tried OP over oils and was surprised that the oils dried less vibrant, so ended up putting varnish on.

Pat Isaac
06-13-2004, 01:31 PM
Hi Sue,

Actually I use the OPs for more than just the highlights, for much of the smaller work. I haven't found that the sticks dull over time, but then again these paintings aren't that old. I actually find the sticks to be shinier than regular paint.

Pat

Lucky Lola
06-13-2004, 01:52 PM
Hi Pat,
I meant what % of the pic is oil stick and OP? Oh, the string cheese, the blender is milky clear white, do you ever use it?

Ok, so oil sticks first then OP, because of the drying difference. What do you use to blend them in? If I use a matte varnish the painting is not shinny. It is all personal preference. When I do a real pop art thing, I like a shinny finish.
Attached is a painting I just completed using only OPs.

Dyin
06-13-2004, 04:37 PM
love the eyes on this cat!

Pat Isaac
06-13-2004, 05:43 PM
Hi Vivian,

Great cat eyes! :clap: I don't use anything to blend them in just right from the stick. You are right oil sticks first and then OPs. What brand of OPs do you use?

Pat

Lucky Lola
06-13-2004, 05:48 PM
I used, for the large areas, the giant Sennieliers. In addition, I used Holbein. This is on a 18x18 canvas primed with Sue's recipe. I blended the colors with turp/liquin, kinda dry, using a stiff fan brush so I could get the fur like texture.

Thanks for the great comments...

HelgaP
06-14-2004, 02:10 AM
Those eyes are gorgeous Viv'. I really wanna try Sue's primer recipe I have a feeling it'd be great, don't you wish you had more than one pay day a month? (laugh)

Dyin
06-14-2004, 12:44 PM
Lola...did you like the surface???

Lucky Lola
06-14-2004, 03:20 PM
Yes, have been using the surface. I posted the thread oil pastel on canvas using varnish.

artist60164
11-09-2005, 06:53 PM
thank you all so much for taking the time to explain ops. I am ready if anyone wants to do an online chat thingy.

Jeanne/chicago :wave:

Pat Isaac
11-09-2005, 07:11 PM
I'm ready. Let's chat.

Pat