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Cindy
09-10-2001, 10:08 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2001/science.jpg

24"x30" acrylic on canvas

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 10:21 AM
cindy, what i find striking in this composition is the layering of forms, their color and their inherent dynamics, it get the feeling from the brush work that it was executed in a more spontaneous and reactionary approach than through observation?? dunno. i just get that from the work.

i think Kandinsky when i see it.

i like it

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 12:00 PM
CINDY, HAVE YOU EVER READ WASSILY'S BOOK, "THE COMPLETE WRITINGS ON ART" ?
ITS NOT FOR EVERYONE BUT IT DOES GIVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING TO HIS APPROACH. I ENJOYED IT AND STILL REFERENCE IT.

Cindy
09-10-2001, 12:29 PM
Thomas,

Thank you for that recommendation! I have "The Spiritual in Art" by W.K. I will check out the book you recommend.

As for the process behind the piece, I actually started with a photo planning to do my regular kind of fauvy-impressionisticky thingy but ended up making a response to the forms and light in the photo instead. Then after that I began to respond to the forms and colors on the canvas itself & also the music I was listening to at the time.

That shape in the lower right hand corner for instance started out as a computer keyboard and there were also 2 figures in the initial stages.

jheinrich
09-10-2001, 12:33 PM
well this answers the leeK question, doesn't it :D

scientists?

I see a hobby horse.

???? my friend bottleman and I talk about abstracts a lot, and the bottom line is that I don't get them ... i did like the ones you were doing last year, that looked mostly wet in wet work, whereas this seems to be entirely hard edged. ????

I don't even like my own abstracts ...:confused:

I've read a bunch of Kandinski's writings, and he is one of my favorite authors to read on art, but in my heart, I can't believe he knew what he knew and still painted like he did.

anyone who loves abstracts (cindy ?)-- I would enjoy hearing your reasons ... it's something I feel I should be able to appreciate, and always am looking for fresh viewpoints on ...

sincerely,
jeanette*

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 12:38 PM
YUP, WASSILY WAS BIG ON MUSIC ALRIGHT, IT WAS A BIG INFLUENCE IN HIS WORK. SO HE SAYS..BUT ANYWAYS. THE BOOK I MENTIONED IS VERY INDEPTH IN THAT IS GOES INTO HOW WASSILY DERIVED HIS IMAGERY FOR HIS PAINTINGS. HE OVERTLY SIMPLIFIED HIS SHAPES TO THE POINT OF ABSTRACTION AND RELIED BASICALLY ON THEIR DYNAMICS.
ITS REALLY A THICK BOOK AND READS LIKE WAR AND PEACE. HA HA... BUT ITS GREAT! LOTS OF DRAWINGS AND SKETCHES ARE REPRODUCED IN THIS VOLUME AND THIS GIVES A GOOD INDICATION ON HOW HE THOUGHT, HOW HIS ART PROCESS WORKED.

MOST GOOD BOOKS STORES WILL CARRY IT.

BUT ANYWAYS. THATS WHAT I SAW IN THIS WORK OF YOURS.

Cindy
09-10-2001, 12:46 PM
I change pictures hanging in my house at a lightning pace; i.e. I get bored easily. BUT I have had the same screensaver on my computers for over a year. It's a collection by Zhuang Hong (www.gibus.com).

My thoughts on experiencing Z. H.'s paintings:

It's pure -
like walking in a summer rain.
like the slightest warm mist on your face.

They don't tell you what to think but instead
create a psychological space for being
drawing your soul to the surface
and reminding you that you exist.

They make me feel full and satisfied
with no doubts or missing parts -
unified and beautiful
reminders of light.


Also I think it reminds me of geometry and engineering design - which I appreciate. ;)

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 12:56 PM
GEEZ.
THATS THE BEAUTY IN ABSTRACTION ALRIGHT. THE SITE YOU GAVE ME WAS GREAT. ILL HAVE TO GO BACK TO IT LATER TO LOOK MORE. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY WORK BY THE RUSSIAN PAINTER NICHOLAS DE sTAEL (PRONOUNCED DA-SCHTEEL). ITS VERY VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SHOWED ME. HE'S DEAD NOW, THROUGH HIMSELF OUT OF HIS STUDIO WINDOW IN ANTIBES TO BE PRECISE.. BUT. H AHA. HE STILL ASTOUNDS ME TO THIS DAY WHEN I PUT MY NOSE RIGHT UP TO HIS WORK IN MUSEUMS.

VERY MUCH LIKE THE ARTIST ZHUANG HONG BUT HIS SHAPES ARE NOT AS ABSTRACTED, JUST BEARLY RECOGNIZABLE AS IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING SQUINTING.

Cindy
09-10-2001, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by THOMASKOVACICH
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY WORK BY THE RUSSIAN PAINTER NICHOLAS DE sTAEL (PRONOUNCED DA-SCHTEEL). ITS VERY VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SHOWED ME.

YES! I see what you see.

http://www.imagemakers.mb.ca/posters/de_stael/de_stael.html

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 01:09 PM
I GUESS THAT IS WHAT IS SO COMPELLING ABOUT ABSTRACTS.
I LOOKED TO THE SIR EYOU GAVE ME AND THE IMAGERY HITS ME LIKE A TON OF BRICKS.
ITS FUNNY, WE AS HUMANS ALWAYS INSTRINSICALLY IMPLY EMOTION ONTO WHAT WE ARE SEEING. BUT IN ABSTRACTION. ALL FORMS ARE USUALLY STRIPPED OF THEIR DEFINING CONTENT, YOU CANT TELL WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE LOOKING AT. BUT THE BEAUTY IS... THE FEELING IS STILL THERE. ITS INESCAPABLE!

THATS WHAT I LIKE ABOUT ABSTRACTION

jheinrich
09-10-2001, 01:11 PM
thanks to you both, I've enjoyed reading your responses.

I like the de Stael work, but it doesn't neccessarily strike me as abstract. The Hong work does ... but honestly I felt like, ah, I've seen this all before ...

here is an abstract artist whose work I enjoy ...and thanks for indulging me, cindy and tom :D

http://www.carolkucera.com/gallery.htm

j*

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 01:38 PM
JEANETTE,
LOOKING AT THE DE STAEL SITE I CAN SEE HOW YOU SAY ITBORDERS MORE ON EXPRESSIONIS ABSTRACTION, NOW I SEEE WHAT YOU ARE SEEING. BUT THE WORK SHOWN ON THAT SITE IS ONLY A SMALL PRECURSER.

MOST OF HIS STUFF IS OUT IN LEFT FIELD, AND I MUST SAY. WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE HERE IN MILWAUKEE TO HAVE 5 OF HIS WORKS IN THE MILWAUKKE ARET MUSEUM. THOSE BABIES ARE REALLY GOOD

BUT WHEN WE ARE IN THE STUDIO AT MIAD, WE ALWAYS ABSTRACT FROM NATURE. GRANTED THERE ARE NO RULES, BUT IT MAKES FOR GOOD TRAINING TO ABSTRACT FROM SOMEWHERE FIRST TO UNDERSTAND TH4 CONCEPT. THINK OF ABSTRACTION AS LIKE ONE SENTENCE OUT OF A PARAGRAPH, OR TWO OR THREE WORDS OUT OF A POETIC PROSE. ITS JUST A SMALL GLIMPSE OF WHAT IS REALLY BEHIND IT. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
SOMETIMES ABSTRACTION IS LIKE THIS ULTRA ULTRA MICROSCOPIC VIEW OF SOMETHING THAT TOTALLY OBLITERATES WHAT IT REALLY IS, OR THEN AGAIN IT CAN BE A MACRO VIEW AS WELL. TOTALLY PULLED BACK FAR FAR AWAY AS YOU WOULD VIEW THE GEOMETRIC LOOKING FARM FIELDS FROM AN AIRPLANE.

HOPE THIS HELPS, WORDS ARE CHEAP

Cindy
09-10-2001, 02:10 PM
Thomas,

We may not be able to afford you (.com) but that's why we like to look for free. How about a link to your work?

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 02:23 PM
OH I SEE SOMEONE HAS FOUND SOME HUMOR IN MY PROFILE, good work! haha
i am sorry to say i dont have access to anything digital which would enable me to share my workwith everyone. for this i feel sad and hope to someday be more a part of this forum. one thousand and one pardons.

well, ive you ever are in the area, my studio is always open.

&
i am showing in the tempe, az. arts festival in late nov, early dec.

which is cross country for me

i did finish a painting this weekend of a foot and i finished up two sculptures last weekend using parts from one of those chrome bowling troph with the little bowling man and ball and stuff. one is called "surf boy: a fivestep approach" and the other is called "portrait of victory" after the greek hellinistic sculpture " Nike of Samothrace" but mine is modern and minimal..if that helps any. haha sorry!

jheinrich
09-10-2001, 03:23 PM
Thomas, I totally appreciate your taking the time to speak your mind! thank you!

I admit that you're description is usually what I myself look for in abstract work, which I think is evidenced by the link I left ...

words may be cheap, but they aren't worthless :D

j*

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 03:37 PM
so i see
you do understand abstracts after all , you faker! just teasing...

but i enjoyed looking at the link you sent, thank you thank you

words are cheap, and thats the beauty


i hope i explained myself well enough to be understood, at least it makes sense in my mind, yet to try an explain or put it into words is another story. but it is as much a part of being an
astute little artist , ha ha...as to be able to communicate your art to others as well as in the ability to create it.

it was my pleasure jeanette

bottleman
09-10-2001, 03:40 PM
When I was a student, an established Canadian abstract artist walked into the studio and told me that I paint like a four year old. Later, he would explain that it was in my choice of composition(it was a still life). I had arranged it, on the surface, the same way a little kid would; straight line for the horizon(edge of table), and objects placed to 'represent' mom, dad, house, etc.

One way to look at abstracts is to not see them as an advancement in style, so to speak. Instead, they are a reversal to the way we all saw things when we were little. No symbolism, style, message,...just a pure expression of the what we see(saw)...before we were 'burdened' with other issues.

Cindy's painting(almost forgot this thread was about that :p) could be seen as an energetic and 'childish' view of...scientist(?).

ArtyHelen
09-10-2001, 03:46 PM
I don't see scientists, I see ice cream and candy!
And I like it! :)

Helen

jheinrich
09-10-2001, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by THOMASKOVACICH
to be able to communicate your art to others as well as in the ability to create it.

yeah! don't we wish! lol

*********
from cindyIt's pure -
like walking in a summer rain.
like the slightest warm mist on your face.

They don't tell you what to think but instead
create a psychological space for being
drawing your soul to the surface
and reminding you that you exist.

They make me feel full and satisfied
with no doubts or missing parts -
unified and beautiful
reminders of light.

This is beautiful, cindy; honestly, I get the same thing from a great representational or expressionist painting ... what I've often admired about visual art is that it never insists or demands, only suggests and infers ... so it's always allowing you to be yourself, so to speak.

as if anyone could 'allow' that ... but hopefully you catch my drift.

**************
hope you don't mind the tangents on your painting!:D

**************
from bottlemanNo symbolism, style, message,...just a pure expression of the
what we see(saw)...before we were 'burdened' with other issues.

I often read precisely the opposite intention, as per thomas' thoughts, an abstraction still wishes to take the 'heart' of a 'thing' and express it.

I would like to see an abstract that you feel is without symbol/style/message ... perhaps you mean Paul Klee, et al ???

curious ....

cheers,
j*
(geez I'm talkative today lol)

Cindy
09-10-2001, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by jheinrich
hope you don't mind the tangents on your painting!:D

**************



On the contrary, I am enjoying it immensely! :D

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 04:14 PM
I DONT KNOW, I DO NOT THINK WE CAN RESOLVE THE ISSUE OF PROJECTING EMOTIONS ONTO IMAGE. FOR IT IS PART OF THE HUMAN QUOTIENT.. DONT YOU THINK?

I CANT THINK OF ANYTHING THAT WOULD LET US STEP OUTSIDE OUR EMOTIONAL BOUNDS AS HUMAN...

bottleman
09-10-2001, 04:23 PM
I don't think what Thomas and I had to say are that far apart. When I mean symbolism, style,...I'm referring to 'adult' concepts that an image has to be painted a certain way, that it has to look like what it looks like to everyone else. Like Thomas said: "IN ABSTRACTION. ALL FORMS ARE USUALLY STRIPPED OF THEIR DEFINING CONTENT"

As for really 'abstract' art, try this out: http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/site/artist_work_md_763.html

That kind of stuff use to drive me nuts:rolleyes:

Cindy
09-10-2001, 04:26 PM
I thought Jeanette meant that there was always some underlying forms or at least our attempt to dicipher form. Even blobs of color have shape and it is our natural tendency to try to recognize that shape as representing an object in our world.

I understand that we can get similar results from a representational piece but I personally feel that the options are more open; that there is more space for the viewer in an abstract piece.

It's interesting to think about whether the "spiritual" can be seperated at all from the physical (or objects/form). The push to go beyond that to a "higher state" may be based on a false premise.

What if form is the physical manisfestation of spirit? What if they cannot be seperated?

Cindy
09-10-2001, 04:41 PM
Bottleman,

That blue piece is meant to be experiencial, I bet. It's so different to stand in front of something like that compared to viewing a small jpg on a screen...

bottleman
09-10-2001, 04:51 PM
Yes, of course it is. It's an example of how far an abstract can go. There is nothing to focus on in this painting. It throws out every notion of symbolism, style, etc.

jheinrich
09-10-2001, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by THOMASKOVACICH
I DONT KNOW, I DO NOT THINK WE CAN RESOLVE THE ISSUE OF PROJECTING EMOTIONS ONTO IMAGE. FOR IT IS PART OF THE HUMAN QUOTIENT.. DONT YOU THINK?

I CANT THINK OF ANYTHING THAT WOULD LET US STEP OUTSIDE OUR EMOTIONAL BOUNDS AS HUMAN...

agreed.

bottleman's link is a perfect example, I emotionally react to that painting, regardless of whether the artist wanted or intended that.

That we cannot escape emotion is why I tend toward the figurative ... the body is the vehicle of our emotions.

i have tunnel-vision a bit though, in that my reaction to the body is so potent that an abstraction, a floral, a landscape hasn't a chance of competing- for me.

I most love to hear the opinions of those for whom abstract, floral, landscape are the most potent ... as they offer me keys to understanding, and more often - artists as illustration.

"IN
ABSTRACTION. ALL FORMS ARE USUALLY STRIPPED OF THEIR DEFINING CONTENT"

but not stipped of all content ... I think perhaps that is an important distinction ...

cindy- I see how you mean abstract is more open ... especially in light of saying that each person neccessarily puts emotion to form ... be it organic or geometric.

abstract is to expressionism is to realism as
poetry is to novels is to non-fiction (??)

The push to go beyond that to a "higher state" may
be based on a false premise.

What if form is the physical manisfestation of spirit? What if they cannot be separated.

I have questions about the validity of the 'higher state' concept myself.

I would say "Form is the physical manifestation of spirit; they cannot be separated." hehehe

I might add ... "or understood fully."

A person can strive to 'know themselves' and by doing that, if they understand they are not as unique as a western mentality would suggest, learn that it is possible to 'know humanity'.

Some will undoubtedly always relate to humanity best through abstract art, others through realism, myself through expressionism and poetry.

we are planes of the prizm ...

j*
(enjoying this, too)

THOMASKOVACICH
09-10-2001, 05:08 PM
well, my brain is toast and im going home.

i dont think there is a defining answer to abstraction and that fact we are questioning what it is is great. thats our job! to question everything.
for what abstraction meant to the early pioneers in painting means something else to us, it really does, for our realities are quite
removed from their time.

but i do not think that we can remove the emotional reaction from looking at imagery, no matter how simplified it gets.... unless some of us here arent from where they say they are.....

always thomas

ZOTMA
09-10-2001, 06:43 PM
good god you all have been chatty this morning. What a great thread for me to quaff my coffee to. Nice abstract though I'm in the boat of struggling with them myself (thus the utter enjoyment of this banter on my part). There are many threads I've read here that have touched upon our human desires to fill in blanks (in art), organize and name all things especially ones we don't understand, to gain control over them. I think the pure initial impact of abstracts is the part I relish most, not knowing, that moment before my left brain takes control and wants to make 'sense' of what it's seeing. There's a gorgeous freedom in color and stroke, movement and static areas that simply effect before reaction can taint. That moment with your piece was enjoyable.

Impulse
09-10-2001, 10:56 PM
excellent colors - quite enjoyable
good depth and relation of shapes
in the foreground to the background

the text of the title and the painting
are playing leapfrog down the road

arourapope
09-10-2001, 11:50 PM
jeanette,
this is for you, I think....... I guess I am mainly a floral type. But when I do my paintings, the subject matter generally has to be transcended by *some* kind of play of *something* which winds up with me treating it more abstractly. Like the painting will more often be about the funky weave of shadow and color, or warm and cool colors, or line and biomorphical shape, than it will be about the plant. UNLESS the plant is a plant that in and of itself is imbued with enough coolness that it seems to scream for a portrait anyway.;) That's when things reallllllly get weird.
However, I would imagine that's probably true about any artist? When you really get right down to the nitty gritty (and I may be completely wrong about this!!!!!) aren't we all just really fascinated with how those different shapes fit up against each other, and how those cool and warm colors do a marriage dance with other, and how that light plays and flirts with the shadows, until they are so entangled and confused that it's just the pull and push of a composition being created?
Isn't the extreme realist as fascinated with these elements as the abstract artist, the figure artist, the floral artist, the portrait artist? Isn't this why we do this?
OK, It's why I do it. :cool: So, that being said, isn't everything we see an abstract until we make sense of it? Jeanette, I'm attempting my first figure work in years right now. LOL! Don't have a model, so it's all from my head, and there's no telling how this thing will turn out. BUT, the major interest will be the play of light and shadow, moving across her body; and that's really what I look for when I look for any subject. Not sure where the difference is? It's all biomorphic, it's all curved, it's all sunlit and shadowy, and in some cases the colors are even similar.......
It's all good........:cool:
Light,
Aurora

rsmak
09-11-2001, 02:08 AM
lovely color,great!
rosanna

THOMASKOVACICH
09-11-2001, 09:42 AM
good morning>

does everyone have their supply of yappy pills<

thanks cindy, and everyone else for the wonderful dialog on abstraction..

also, for cindy>
food for thought...

i picked up this cd a few years back that pay homage to Vassily Kandinsky. Its very old and scratchy music from 19th and 20th century Russia. its all sung in Russian too. its great. dont have a clue what they are singing about, but it is very inspirational to create to, and i might add, sentiimental in some ways. but i will look for its exact title and tell you where you may be able to find it if you are interested. I love passing stuff like this on to others because i feel it makes a difference.

good day

jheinrich
09-11-2001, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by aurorapope
aren't we all just really fascinated with how those different shapes fit up against each other, and how those cool and warm colors do a marriage dance with other, and how that light plays and flirts with the shadows, until they are so entangled and confused that it's just the pull and push of a composition being created?
Aurora

oh yeah!

thanks aurora- and as you know, your florals are an exception to my feel- like simon and dom's landscapes ... wonderful and I think because you all pay such articulate attention to the beauty of paint ...

can't wait to see you figure work! out of your head! yeee-ow! that's tough.

j*