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View Full Version : Claybord vs. Crescent 9208


ProfessorGreibowitz
05-01-2004, 02:26 PM
I got my Claybord sample in today!

I have not actually painted on it but Penny was correct (again!). Dat girl be knowing sompin! Claybord is smoother than 9208! Unfortunately, it is not nearly as white. The 9208 is not as rigid but is not flimsy in comparison. So, the Claybord looks like a great support but you give up a full range of tones if you rely on the erasing technique and let the support supply your white (the way I do it). For Maryl's, Penny's, etc. technique, this bord is purrrrfect!

So, DANG IT! LOL! Why couldn't it be reaaaaaally white????

Oh, it's also more than twice as costly as 9208.


So, I think I'm still leaning toward the 9208 but Claybord is a very nice bord! heheheh
I'll paint a portrait on it someday soon.

Plus, the 9208 can be cut to size with a razor. That's not a big deal though.

I talked with Sam about the CS 10 and he said they added wax to it and that probably made it both smoother and more waterproof so erasing/wiping paint was easier. Maybe I can get a piece of CS 10 from Sam if he still has any and see what all the fuss was about! heheheheheh

Anyway, just posting my findings!

Tim

Maryl Lehman
05-03-2004, 02:01 AM
Boy, I never thought about it not being white enough.....it looks pretty white to me! But then I haven't compared it to anything else. I still haven't used my piece yet, but am anxious to! It is sooooooo smooth! I've got a pic in mind to paint on it, just need to find the time to do it! ;)

~Maryl

kdkbrown
05-03-2004, 11:36 AM
ProfessorGreibowitz

Boy, I never thought about it not being white enough.....it looks pretty white to me! But then I haven't compared it to anything else.

I agree with Maryl so I had to compare for my self. Claybord is a warm white the 9208 is a cold white.

I hope you will try it out anyway, despite its tone of white.

Donna

HF AIRBRUSH
05-03-2004, 12:11 PM
oke....here's a silly question...what is a clayboard..??
i use a good quality paper or canvas...but this is new to me and i can't find how this is called in dutch...

so a clay board...is this something made of clay??...

henk

Milo
05-03-2004, 02:36 PM
oke....here's a silly question...what is a clayboard..??
i use a good quality paper or canvas...but this is new to me and i can't find how this is called in dutch...


It's actually claybord here is the website http://www.ampersandart.com/ just click under products. The have smooth , textured, white, black, deepcradles

Milo

ProfessorGreibowitz
05-03-2004, 10:33 PM
Well, Donna, to me (not really arguing, just stating how it looks to me) the Claybord is a warm white but I would not say the 9208 is cold. It seems neutral (doesn't have blue in it) whereas the Claybord is not only darker but yellowish/brown (veeery light cream color). So, I think the Claybord is not only darker but much warmer. Is there a neutral white to compare to 9208 that may change my opinion? Or, is a lack of warm considered cold by default? Compared to Claybord I guess 9208 could be called cold or cool.

Claybord could be very "cool" for certain paintings that should have a warm background. But unless you compare them side by side it isn't too bad but you know how I am. :rolleyes: Always trying to be perfect. hehehehe A never ending battle and you never really "make it"! I just psychologically need to know my support is white, I guess. But you know, I want to try some different base colors for effects someday. Monochrome but with a colored support...

So, that is how my eyes perceive it in my studio. But I am not abandoning it as a choice! I am glad I bought a piece so I can try it sometime. It is way smooth so I know it'll work great for airbrushing. I love the sturdiness of the board.



Tim

kdkbrown
05-04-2004, 01:01 AM
ProfessorGreibowitz,

I'm not up for a good debate, but to me, lack of warm is considered cold or cool by default! I really like your work, so continue to due what works best for you.

Donna

Penny220
05-04-2004, 07:50 AM
Since I don't erase or use the white of the board I've never looked. I don't have one open at the moment either. Turn the board to look at the side of it. Is the clay center the same white as the exterior paint? One of the nice thing that you might find about clayboard is if you erase you can erase your little heart out and never have to worry about going through the board or losing your white.

ProfessorGreibowitz
05-05-2004, 12:16 PM
Thanks Donna and Penny.


My Claybord looks like it doesn't go all the way through. It looks like a very thin film on top of a dark board. ?


Thanks Donna for the compliment. I certainly don't want to sound as if I have all the answers because I don't. But I do always like to state what I believe and then if I find out I'm wrong, I change! heheheheheh

But I will most likely stay with illustration board since I am wanting it very white but I just wonder if having a warm white would cause folk to like the portraits MORE due to psychological and subliminal reasons (you know, sun=warm etc.). Who knows? hehehe


Tim

Caterwallin'
05-05-2004, 01:01 PM
Interesting!
With regards to the brilliance of the white, I believe that the workability of the surface is way more important, for me, than it's hue. As for the warm white, well I can always strengthen it with the addition of some white paint, even though I hate doing that!

For me personally I would have to weigh the trade offs of each based on my needs for any given painting! I very rarely have a completely white background! In fact, I almost always cover the entire support with paint! The white highlights, even those that I have erased back, are few, and as I said above, I can reinforce them!

With that said, if I wanted soft edges around a central subject or a large white area, then that would have to be thrown into the equation! Often we tend to get stuck with using the same support all of the time, myself included. There is not a single perfect support. Choose the support that would best accommodate your needs of the painting your planning!

Sam

ProfessorGreibowitz
05-05-2004, 01:16 PM
But Sam I need consistency in my life! heheheheh I need something I can rely on! Well, it's true. I want to stick to the same things for a while to get better but of course I'll try others too and I hope someday I can feel confident about all these supports, paints, chemicals, etc.

Well, the ones I did were totally reliant upon the support for white even in areas that are not white since I sometimes spray a thin coat that doesn't completely cover the support so that is one reason I like the brighter support. I'm gettin all the white I can. hehehehehehehe But in small areas, yes, I can always add white paint but not the way I do these portraits.

When I get good like you, Sam, and try my hand at an animal painting, I will probably cover the entire support and as you say it will be more of a surface/workability issue then.

Lots to think about.

Thanks for another Caterwallin'-approved post! :cool: heheh


Tim

Caterwallin'
05-05-2004, 02:12 PM
Tim, I'm supporting you here! LOL! I think that your making the right decision about your choice of support! The demands that you place on your support are far more stringent than those I require! You know your needs and your using what works best for you! As your technique expands, so will your knowledge, experience, and choices! However, with your style of portraiture, I think your not going to be able to choose a better surface! I believe in consistency as well, I included myself in the "stuck" category! LOL!

My furred animal paintings can be done on any support! The technique I use does not require any workability attributes of the support! I prefer them to be smooth, but that's all! If I paint something that requires erasing techniques I use illustration board. If I don't try the clayboard, Donna is going to beat me! I will try it and see if I like it. It will become yet another surface option for me to add to my current, yet limited, choices! It's warm white surface will become just another variable to consider when I choose a support for my next painting!

Sam

Keith Russell
05-06-2004, 03:56 AM
Both Open Mind One and Open Mind Too were done on 9208. (Go to 'www.syntheticsky.com'--both paintings are there on the 'title page'...)

I can't use Clayboard, because it does not stand up to the heavy frisketing that I do. Wonderful surface to airbrush on, absolutely terrible, heartbreaking frisket peel-up.

K

pr1130
05-06-2004, 09:55 PM
Not sure if this is the most appropriate place for this post but here goes any way.

Never really heard of clayboard either but it sounds much like a hand made chalk ground I use to use back in the 80's when working mainly with egg tempera. This really is an amazing surface to paint on.


Traditional Chalk Gesso Recipe

1 part Rabbitskin glue
1 part Titanium white (dry pigment) Optional
1 part Calcium Carbonate (Whiting or Chalk)



Prepare the Rabbit Skin Glue (in a double boiler) and always be sure to keep it warm but not HOT

Next mix the Calcium Carbonate and the Dry Titanium White together.

While the Rabbitskin glue is still warm begin slowly adding the dry mixture of Calcium and Titanium. Add these together slowly.

Begin stirring the mixture. The mixture should be stirred gently to insure that very few air pockets will be formed. Air pockets will cause defects in the surface you are priming.

Slowly keep adding the dry mixture until you have a consistancy much like "pancake batter." Too much dry mixture and the surface will crack when dried and to little will not have the hiding power one might desire.

Apply the mixture to your support while still warm. It may be required that you warm the mixture several times but never bring it to a boil.

Apply the Gesso in several thin coats. Allowing each coat to dry before adding the next. Each coat will become dull when dry. A minimum of 4 coats is recommended and there is no maximum 10 to 12 coats is recommended.

After the final coat of Gesso, allow to dry for 24 hrs, then sand lightly with a fine sand paper (220 garnet paper or finer) be sure to sand and bevel the edges to safeguard against chipping

Finish by rubbing the panel with a SOFT damp cotton cloth. A lightly damped cloth will buff the surface to a proper smooth shinny surface. Too much water will result in to much of the surface being removed.

Note: This gesso is usually applied to sized (with rabbit skin glue) masonite or board panel

Peter