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jackiesimmonds
04-30-2004, 06:01 AM
I have a vague memory floating around in my head, about a comment in a thread about the use of purple in paintings.........someone said there was a book which showed the artist's love and use of purple, and someone replied saying that they too loved using lots of purple.........sorry to be so woolly, call it a senior moment...........

anyway, I cannot find the thread, and would love to know the name of the book, so if anyone knows what on earth I am going on about here, do please let me know

chestie
04-30-2004, 06:38 AM
purhaps it's in the Book & Video Reviews thread which I found very useful.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169912&highlight=purple

weckster
04-30-2004, 06:53 AM
I vaguely remember reading the same thing....maybe I'll just go searching...BTW have your beginner's pastel book - it's great!!

jackiesimmonds
04-30-2004, 07:33 AM
Found it - it was Dee's post in that thread on books, and it was Wolf Khan's book, which I have to confess I sent back, having looked at the illustrations, decided I really did NOT like his work at all, and therefore did not read the text. Perhaps that was a bit hasty.

Jackie

jackiesimmonds
04-30-2004, 07:38 AM
I vaguely remember reading the same thing....maybe I'll just go searching...BTW have your beginner's pastel book - it's great!!


Glad you are finding it helpful.
Jackie

CarlyHardy
04-30-2004, 04:03 PM
Jackie,
I have two of Wolf Kahn's books and love reading them! He has a way of stating the obvious with simple terms that make more sense after I've had a really bad day painting the landscape!....and I'm always saying to myself, "why didn't I think of that!"

carly

Without purple, I doubt I could paint!!

Mikki Petersen
04-30-2004, 05:00 PM
OMG! I hope this person was not denegrating the use of purple??? I'm with Carly on this. I could not paint without it. Purples invariably work best in shadows, on rocks, etc. I have the set of GAW grays, and have nearly used up the grayed purples in that set. They are marvelously versatile colors.

I don't care for Wolff Kahn's work either but that raises an interesting question. I select my instructional materials based on whether I like the artist's work. Based on your comment Jackie, is that a good criteria?

Khadres
04-30-2004, 05:43 PM
OMG! I hope this person was not denegrating the use of purple??? I'm with Carly on this. I could not paint without it. Purples invariably work best in shadows, on rocks, etc. I have the set of GAW grays, and have nearly used up the grayed purples in that set. They are marvelously versatile colors.

I don't care for Wolff Kahn's work either but that raises an interesting question. I select my instructional materials based on whether I like the artist's work. Based on your comment Jackie, is that a good criteria?

I was just wondering that myself. I did find out that signing up for a class with a teacher whose work I didn't care for was a BIG mistake. But maybe just because someone's art isn't to our liking isn't reason enough to disregard everything they have to say about art?

K Taylor-Green
04-30-2004, 05:52 PM
I also choose my instruction books based on work I like. I thought that was normal. Don't tell me that I have another aberation!!! Though it sounds like I'm in good company.

Deborah Secor
04-30-2004, 06:40 PM
I think this man has some very valuable things to say, whether you like his paintings or not...

Wolf Kahn Pastels

From his chapter on Color:

All coloristic gambits are subject to immediate review by the eye. There are no foolproof prior directions; all information regarding color must pass through severe screening, and the more attractive the colors used, the more severe are the requirements of coloristic decorum, to avoid and excess of charm and "stroking." The colors should at all times enhance each other, without becoming "color-coordinated" and thereby losing their autonomy. Colors should never be allowed to merge too easily into their surroundings. If a color "drowns" in the tonality, it loses its energy; it might not have been used at all. Like a good guest at a dinner party, a color should participate in the occasion but must not be allowed to take over the conversation to the point where other guests, who also wish to participate, are squelched, and cannot be heard.

And what I quoted before....

From his chapter on The Color Purple:

Laying down a good-sized area of purple is all I need to start a picture. That color is expressive in so many ways, and so special in others. Its range from light lilac color to nearly black, goes through a number of discrete tonalities, some of them useful for gray-violet skies and water, some for denser areas of middle distance, deep purple for nighttime, and deep shadows for the eye to drown in. Purple/violet is theoretically related to green. While I do not rely on color theory to guide me in any direction, I must admit that green and purple do something for each other, which green and yellow, green and blue, green and red do not. There are wonderful associations of purple and green in the work of other painters, especially the way Matisse and Bonnard used them in large areas...

...The smallest variation in density of tone is significant. Purple can be made to appear airy or heavy. (Try to make a heavy yellow or an airy black.)...

...I use purple to get me going when other colors fail. It never disappoints and never becomes ordinary....

I can jump-start a painting with purple, too. It was such a delight to find someone who understands that...

From his chapter on Bright Orange:

There remains the question of when, exactly, to employ this useful color without leaving oneself open to accusations of hedonism, or vulgarity, or worse yet, capriciousness, or worst, self-importance and attention-grabbing. The answer is: in fall, and at the time of brilliant sunsets.

Deborah

Pinecone Conniff
04-30-2004, 10:51 PM
Another artist that uses purple in landscapes beautifully is Elizabeth Mowry. She has 2 books--"The Poetic Landscape" & "The Pastelists Year".
I got these books thru the Northlight Book Club.
She is very inspiring & no stranger to all shades of purple!!
Annette

jackiesimmonds
05-01-2004, 03:15 AM
As forthe question about whether one should like the artist's work in order to learn from them.......well, it is difficult to take advice from someone whose work displeases you, you doubt the efficacy of the advice from the word go, don't you.

Dee has made the point that Wolf Khan has some good things to say, (tho i would take issue with him over the comment re "orange".) and clearly, even tho I did not like his work AT ALL, I should have taken a little time to read the text and then make up my mind, rather than discard the book on the basis of the images. One should always be open-minded, and I have to admit that I was not. Talk about double standards too...I always berate people for only looking at pictures in books instead of reading the text, and here I was, doing just what I tell others not to do!

I am afraid it was a knee-jerk reaction. I really thought the paintings were uninspiring and I just did not want to look at them at all, and having paid a lot of money for the book, I was rather cross with myself for buying something sight-unseen, and I simply used the same packaging and "turned it around", sending it straight back to Amazon.

Perhaps he did have useful things to say, and this was a lesson for me to learn.

Jackie

crispy
05-01-2004, 10:28 AM
Jackie, I did the exact thing! My bro-in-law bought his book and the first thing I did was open to the pictures and in seeing his work was completely "turned off" from the rest of the book. I'm glad this thread was here, I'm going to give this book another look. (I'll just not look at the pictures)
-Cristy

Deborah Secor
05-01-2004, 02:21 PM
Over the years many of my students have given me books, which have been such a blessing because I've come into possession of ones I might not otherwise have chosen. There are some painters whose work does not excite me, but from whom I've learned a tremendous amount. In fact, I read what John Carlson said long before I ever saw any of his work in color (except for the cover of the book, which looked washed out to me.) Once I saw his work I realized I never would have counted him as an authority based on the paintings. No light, no sparkle, which is what I wanted to paint here in NM, but he has incredible riches of information on the technical side of how to paint the landscape, things like value structure, aerial perspective, linear perspective, etc. And although some of you (most other people) adore the work of Elizabeth Mowry, I've always found it too sweet and simple for my taste--again a matter of light--but she has some wonderful things to say. (I like Elizabeth a lot as a person and admire some of the things about her work, but would never aspire to 'paint like her', you understand.)

The books have served, in part, to help me realize that there are more ways to do it than the way I'm doing it, but also remind me to foster in others the talent they bring to painting, to help them strengthen the things they value, rather than imposing on them my way of doing it. In reading the advice, thoughts, and methods of others, even whose work I find uninteresting, I'm reminded that I am not the ultimate authority on anything but my own work!

Deborah

jackiesimmonds
05-01-2004, 03:43 PM
Bravo, Deborah.

.......................................................
Did you know.........
It was the painter Donatello's interest in the female nude that made him the Father of the Renaissance.

Mikki Petersen
05-01-2004, 03:50 PM
Whew! I'm sure relieved to read Wolff Kahn's comments about purple. That is exactly my feeling aobut the color. And thanks for the good answers about choosing books to learn from. Good thread!

Khadres
05-01-2004, 10:36 PM
Very good points, Dee. Let's face it, NONE of us, not even the highly touted are the ultimate authority on ANYthing. Even non-artists have some very cogent things to say ABOUT art, at times, and I try not to ignore them either...THEY are the viewers and it pays to understand what they see in the work we do.

That brings up another interesting issue. I know how I rate the three options below, but wonder if I'm maybe a bit 'different' than most?

A: Painting to satisfy the viewer...in this case a non-artist viewer, the folks who sometimes buy our work and hang it in their homes.
B: Painting to impress/inspire other artists, to gain fellow artists' respect.
C: Painting to express myself, please myself, satisfy my need to communicate something about what I'm painting.

Does everybody rate those the same way? Or even in the same order all the time? Which is most important and why? And when do they shift places in order of importance? Or are all three equally important?

Next question: How does everyone go about achieving these things? What criteria does each artist use to decide what/where/when to paint a particular painting? Or do you even think about that?

purplelizard
05-01-2004, 11:10 PM
First, I love this thread. My car is purple, my briefcase is purple, my studio name is "purple lizard studio" - I LOVE PURPLE! It is the most wonderful color to work with, as many in this thread have already mentioned.

When I saw Wolf Khan's name appear, I was even happier. I have never seen a work of his in person - I looked at an exhibition catalog or two at the Fine Arts Library on campus, and my planner/calendar has his work on each page. I just love it! But, to each their own. I wasn't aware that he had technical books (next stop, Amazon! :p ). His landscapes seem simplistic, but again, I've never examined one up close. His color is absolute eye candy for me!

Khadres, I'd like to answer your question about who we create for - I think it depends on the moment. This morning, I was working with oil pastels, doing abstract doodles and smearing them, and all sorts of stuff. Nothing anyone would want to buy, and no colleague would be impressed. It was for me. As I begin the marketing of my work (I'm in the infantile stages of this) I realize the need to be conscious of the everyday viewer, in which case I'd be creating with them in mind. But, I'd still have to love doing it - can't imagine creating just to make money, and not like doing it. It would be time to quit then.

And the idea to impress artistic friends? Mmm...never thought of it - I like sharing with others -that's why the WDE's are so wonderful - but I don't think of it as trying to impress. I like the feedback, both positive and constructive criticism. My hide is a little bit tougher now.

Great philosophical question - who are we creating for? Start a thread with that! I've got more to say and I'm rambling now! :rolleyes: :)

go purple!

Khadres
05-02-2004, 12:45 AM
purplelizard:

I'll go ya one better! Why don't YOU start a new thread with just that title??

Great philosophical question - who are we creating for?

Should open up an entire new can of worms and we're gettin' pretty complacent around here lately! Might wake folks up a little?

purplelizard
05-02-2004, 06:55 PM
Very good points, Dee. Let's face it, NONE of us, not even the highly touted are the ultimate authority on ANYthing. Even non-artists have some very cogent things to say ABOUT art, at times, and I try not to ignore them either...THEY are the viewers and it pays to understand what they see in the work we do.

That brings up another interesting issue. I know how I rate the three options below, but wonder if I'm maybe a bit 'different' than most?

A: Painting to satisfy the viewer...in this case a non-artist viewer, the folks who sometimes buy our work and hang it in their homes.
B: Painting to impress/inspire other artists, to gain fellow artists' respect.
C: Painting to express myself, please myself, satisfy my need to communicate something about what I'm painting.

Does everybody rate those the same way? Or even in the same order all the time? Which is most important and why? And when do they shift places in order of importance? Or are all three equally important?

Next question: How does everyone go about achieving these things? What criteria does each artist use to decide what/where/when to paint a particular painting? Or do you even think about that?

Ok, Khadres - I'll do it! But what forum do I put it in?? This one? Creativity?? Help...I'm too new...don't want to ruffle feathers!

Moderators - where would you like the question posted, "Who do we create for?"

Thanks!
:)

Deborah Secor
05-02-2004, 07:00 PM
Kristen, I'm no moderator but I'm sure it would be fine to post it in the pastel forum! I think this is a good question..one we'll kick around a lot. If you want me to do it for you, I'd be happy to... Say the work, or just post it in pastels...

:)
Deborah

MKathleen
05-03-2004, 01:34 PM
Ok, Khadres - I'll do it! But what forum do I put it in?? This one? Creativity?? Help...I'm too new...don't want to ruffle feathers!

Moderators - where would you like the question posted, "Who do we create for?"

Thanks!
:)
:) Hi There, I think Dee is correct the 'Pastel' forum is an excellent place. You might consider your question as a 'Poll thread' that way you can see just how many artists feel one way or the other. If not just post it as a regular thread.. :)
If you do it as a poll then you'll need to pose a series of questions that relate to your main question "Who do we create for?" then give some choices such as these examples. Or whatever fits your thoughts....
1. our selves
2. other's
3. shows/competitions
Here is a link on how to post a poll in case your not familiar with creating one there easy and fun.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/help/question.php?qstId=30