PDA

View Full Version : The Bacchante - Master Copy


Classical Vince
04-25-2004, 07:01 AM
Hi Gang!

Ive been busy lately with a lot of gesture (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183751) drawings as well as a weekly anatomy class...not to mention family drama (lol!) and work is a nightmare! :rolleyes:

I've been on a break from my Atelier studies for the month of April. I did this preliminary drawing a few months back as a study for a duotone painting. This is a master copy from a painting by Jean-Leon Gerome, The Bacchante. I have adored this painting for quite some time.

This was done as a preliminary study so there isnt as much detail as I would normally settle for in my work. This was a quick study [12hrs] for a duotone version that I went on to paint in oil. I will be posting it soon in this thread. I worked on it about as far as my patience will allow, lol.

I became intrigued with the circular boundry. It isnt an easy one to use successfully but Gerome uses the pattern of the horns and the hair to keep us circling around and around in the piece. I love the composition of the original.

I think for the most part, most of the academic drawings that I produce will be preliminary studies for future pieces I plan on painting which means, time and detail will be sacrificed for larger observations of the whole.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Apr-2004/25528-Bacchante.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Apr-2004/25528-The_Bacchante.jpg

Titanium
04-25-2004, 07:34 AM
Very nicely/finely done Vince!
I wait in antici - (4 seconds) - pation to see how you
use all of this in a multi-figurative oil painting.

Enjoying the work.
Thanks for putting it up.
Titanium

*Maybe some time you can explain to me,just how you get such good results with this digital image stuff.I can't get the hang of it and on my screen all my work looks like a cartoon[as of Bug Bunny.].
It's a bit frustrating!!!

artmom
04-25-2004, 11:06 AM
Ah, Vince! Again, thank you for sharing your wonderful work. I really can't wait to see your work in color! :)

Lyn

guillot
04-25-2004, 11:24 AM
Wow Vince, superb work!!!! Just excellent.....

I can't wait to see the painting :)

Tina

Classical Vince
04-25-2004, 11:12 PM
Very nicely/finely done Vince!
I wait in antici - (4 seconds) - pation to see how you
use all of this in a multi-figurative oil painting.

Enjoying the work.
Thanks for putting it up.
Titanium

*Maybe some time you can explain to me,just how you get such good results with this digital image stuff.I can't get the hang of it and on my screen all my work looks like a cartoon[as of Bug Bunny.].
It's a bit frustrating!!!

Thanks for the post Titanium...multi-figurative work?! Holy-cow! That'll be awhile! ;)

I use an Olympus (good lens) digital camera and PS to clean them up a bit. Im good with PS but not so good with other brands of software but you can pm me if you would like me to scrub up your next masterpiece ;)

Classical Vince
04-25-2004, 11:33 PM
Ah, Vince! Again, thank you for sharing your wonderful work. I really can't wait to see your work in color! :)

Lyn

Hi Lynn (Mom ;)! Im getting to color soon...this one will be a duotone, sort of...lol. I'll explain later :D

Classical Vince
04-25-2004, 11:35 PM
Wow Vince, superb work!!!! Just excellent.....

I can't wait to see the painting :)

Tina

Thanks Tina! It was the work of yours and all the other master copies in the Oils and Classical Forums that finally inspired me to start with the studies. I have another Godward thats in the works too.

Classical Vince
04-25-2004, 11:49 PM
This entire piece was a journey for me. I wanted to try something different than a wipe-out stain under my painting...call me a rebel. lol. My instructor likes us to use the stains but I wanted to try a charcoal underdrawing bc I was hoping I could draft it better since Im new to brushes still.

Being the MassDraw-er that I am :rolleyes: , I made a little muddy mess here but tried to go for major variations in tone. It didnt go too well. I had a lot of problems controlling tones and lifting back the charcoal. Later, I decided a simple cartoon-like outline would have been better. Vine charcoal may have helped with tonal control as well. You learn with each piece...

To be honest, I prefer the wipe-outs. They are simpler to follow with later applications of paint than this mass-drawing. If you capture enough of the highlights early with a rubout, you can always go darker without a problem after it dries.

I was faced with trying to choose a fixative before I painted. I used a workable fixative after asking Iconolast about it. The whole drawing and fixing-thing wasnt efficient and didnt benefit me much with this. Next time, its going to be a rubout underpainting from the start or direct wash sketches. I still wonder about peeling/flaking since I used a fixative with this process. :rolleyes:

There were a lot drafting problems with this so I decided I would fix them later on with paint applications. I knew this was going to need some-a-fixin.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Apr-2004/25528-Underdrawing.jpg

arlene
04-26-2004, 02:07 AM
i think you're being too hard on yourself vince....not an uncommon problem...lol keep going and stop sweating it...the wipe out method works for you because it is what is most familiar...do some research and try this one again too...second time around will be easier. ;)

Classical Vince
04-26-2004, 02:19 AM
i think you're being too hard on yourself vince....not an uncommon problem...lol

I know, Im a perfectionist and you're another! ;) :D I know Im hard on myself but really, it keeps my work growing.

keep going and stop sweating it...the wipe out method works for you because it is what is most familiar...do some research and try this one again too...second time around will be easier. ;)

But I havent finished posting my progress on this one yet :p

I kept working at this one! I knew the underdrawing needed fixing but I didnt give up on this! Im more stubborn than that :D Heres where its at now, just a few touch-ups left, sorry for the reflected canvas:

Duotone Oil, 12"x12" Canvas
Burnt Umber/Raw Umber & White

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2004/25528-042504.jpg

artmom
04-26-2004, 09:24 AM
Okay, Vince, I'm going to try not to gush!!!!! LOL

You know I am a complete newbie when it comes to this standard of art. However, I know what I like!! LOL The "glow" on her shoulder is absolutely sensuous. It is amazing how much "life" there is in this with such limited color.

I like it.

(Did I keep the "gush factor" under control? :evil: )

Lyn

Classical Vince
04-26-2004, 05:10 PM
Aw Mom, you can gush all you want ;)

I too was surprised when I started using the Burnt Umber in the illuminated areas. The painting was very cold in Raw Umber but as soon as I used the warmer color for the illumination it started looking much more lifelike.

Thanks for all your posts Lynn, its always a treat to hear from you. :D

Lemnus
04-26-2004, 06:47 PM
A Godward next, Vince? I love Godward! Gotta love a guy who "devoted his entire life to painting pretty girls in robes" or something like that. :D :evil: Tell me, tell me...which one? I will be eagerly awaiting that too. This Gerome is looking wonderful!

guillot
04-26-2004, 07:50 PM
I still wonder about peeling/flaking since I used a fixative with this process. :rolleyes:



A "workable" fixative doesn't hold the drawing very well. As long as you use a light coat and not heavy applications, it will be fine. You could also use a light coat of retouch varnish - the drawing won't go anywhere on you. The trick is a light application of something that will "hold" it. It will not "peel" or Flake. Workable fixatives are just that - "Workable" so when you start applying washes over it - there it goes.

This is looking just gorgeous. Very admirable work Vince!!!

Tina

Classical Vince
04-27-2004, 10:57 PM
A Godward next, Vince? I love Godward! Gotta love a guy who "devoted his entire life to painting pretty girls in robes" or something like that. :D :evil: Tell me, tell me...which one? I will be eagerly awaiting that too. This Gerome is looking wonderful!

Hi Lemnus! Thanks for the post. This was my favorite painting by Gerome.

I love the sensual way Godward handles his models :music: Im doing, A Grecian Girl, 1908. Hopefully in color. ;)

Classical Vince
04-27-2004, 10:59 PM
A "workable" fixative doesn't hold the drawing very well. As long as you use a light coat and not heavy applications, it will be fine. You could also use a light coat of retouch varnish - the drawing won't go anywhere on you. The trick is a light application of something that will "hold" it. It will not "peel" or Flake. Workable fixatives are just that - "Workable" so when you start applying washes over it - there it goes.

This is looking just gorgeous. Very admirable work Vince!!!

Tina

Hi Tina, thanks for the tips; whew! ;) I didnt discover the retouch varnish until halfway through this piece so it sounds like a more stable base for the paint.

I'll see if I can get the nerve to color her when Im more experienced. Thanks again. :)

bdswagger
04-27-2004, 11:44 PM
A "workable" fixative doesn't hold the drawing very well. As long as you use a light coat and not heavy applications, it will be fine. You could also use a light coat of retouch varnish - the drawing won't go anywhere on you. The trick is a light application of something that will "hold" it. It will not "peel" or Flake. Workable fixatives are just that - "Workable" so when you start applying washes over it - there it goes.

This is looking just gorgeous. Very admirable work Vince!!!

Tina

This is looking gorgeous.

Yeah, re-touch varnish will work much better-it 'holds' the drawing for you, even after you start applying the paint, and a light coat wont do any harm.

Godward, huh? Mmm, yes, I really like his more 'brooding' pieces. Reminds me of the Decadents. Some very sensual stuff.

Looking forward to seeing the next step of your WIP!
Leigh

guillot
04-27-2004, 11:44 PM
"more experienced"? My God Man - go for it :D You must be kiddin :p I believe you will be just fine.

Just remember that you only need something "light" that will "hold" your drawing. Very light coat will do, let it dry, rub your finger on it. If it's holding well enough - go for it. No heavy multiple coats.

I'm so excited over this painting that you are doing!! I love everything about the painting, and you are doing a superb job. I wish I could do so well. You are such an asset to this forum, and to WC - thanks for sharing your adventures.

Titanium - are you ever going to write me man? :p I'm so thrilled to see you back and have missed your input around here tremendously..... Your knowledge has helped me to grow in so many ways. I just want you to know that :angel:

Tina

Classical Vince
04-29-2004, 05:05 AM
This is looking gorgeous.

Yeah, re-touch varnish will work much better-it 'holds' the drawing for you, even after you start applying the paint, and a light coat wont do any harm.

Godward, huh? Mmm, yes, I really like his more 'brooding' pieces. Reminds me of the Decadents. Some very sensual stuff.

Looking forward to seeing the next step of your WIP!
Leigh

Thanks Leigh. I could tell from using the retouch varnish that it would have made a better painting surface as well as fix the drawing better. Dont hold your breath for the next step! lol. It'll be awhile before I get to glazing. :D

Classical Vince
04-29-2004, 05:08 AM
"more experienced"? My God Man - go for it :D You must be kiddin :p I believe you will be just fine.

Color scares me! lol :p


Just remember that you only need something "light" that will "hold" your drawing. Very light coat will do, let it dry, rub your finger on it. If it's holding well enough - go for it. No heavy multiple coats.

I'm so excited over this painting that you are doing!! I love everything about the painting, and you are doing a superb job. I wish I could do so well. You are such an asset to this forum, and to WC - thanks for sharing your adventures.


I may have done more coats than I should :crying: but its just a study; I only put as much as I needed until it stopped rubbing but about 3 *lightly* sprayed coats.

Thanks for all your support! ;)

dcorc
04-29-2004, 07:27 AM
Color scares me! lol :p

The Big Bad Oil Painters are going to have to gang up and scare you MORE !!

GO FOR IT - DO IT NOW!!!

Don't spend all your life planning for the future!

Dave

Classical Vince
04-30-2004, 11:24 PM
The Big Bad Oil Painters are going to have to gang up and scare you MORE !!

GO FOR IT - DO IT NOW!!!

Don't spend all your life planning for the future!

Dave

Ahh yes...but Dave, Grasshopper must have patience to walk the full length of the canvas. ;) Only then...will I be ready for the Big Bad Oil Painters ;) :D

guillot
05-01-2004, 09:48 AM
Ahh yes...but Dave, Grasshopper must have patience to walk the full length of the canvas. ;) Only then...will I be ready for the Big Bad Oil Painters ;) :D


HA!! :) Well, I'm definitely not a "BIG BAD OIL PAINTER", but I say you will be fine grasshopper.

by Vince........ I only put as much as I needed until it stopped rubbing but about 3 *lightly* sprayed coats.

The mist of three will not harbor thee grasshopper!!

Tina

Danny
05-05-2004, 01:57 AM
I am blown away man. :clap: :clap: :clap: This "ROCKS"
Color scares me! lol
I remember a guy who was scared of color. He drew and drew and drew. His friends encouraged him to paint because he was so good at drawing. His friends were, Monet, Manet, Corot, and Degas, to mention only a few. :eek: His name was Camille Passorio. :eek: Your in good company Vince, though I do like your realism better than their abstraction. :) Like they told him "Paint boy Paint!" :) lolololol

Ophelia
05-06-2004, 01:42 PM
Vincent,

I've said this before and I'll say it again...you amaze me with your art. And I know what you mean, I'm scared of color too!! :p Keep going, you're painting is absolutely marvelous. And you know, she'd look gorgeous hanging in my bedroom!! :D

All the best,

Opie

Classical Vince
05-07-2004, 09:35 PM
The mist of three will not harbor thee grasshopper!!

Tina

Whew! :D Thanks for the reassurance T!

Classical Vince
05-07-2004, 09:39 PM
I am blown away man. :clap: :clap: :clap: This "ROCKS"
Color scares me! lol
I remember a guy who was scared of color. He drew and drew and drew. His friends encouraged him to paint because he was so good at drawing. His friends were, Monet, Manet, Corot, and Degas, to mention only a few. :eek: His name was Camille Passorio. :eek: Your in good company Vince, though I do like your realism better than their abstraction. :) Like they told him "Paint boy Paint!" :) lolololol

Hey there Danny! Thanks for the clappies :D I had to look him up and found the spelling to be a lil' different (Pissario) but I found him! Interesting how many styles he worked through and to read that he had most of his early artwork stomped on! ggrrrhhhh!

Classical Vince
05-07-2004, 09:45 PM
Vincent,

I've said this before and I'll say it again...you amaze me with your art. And I know what you mean, I'm scared of color too!! :p Keep going, you're painting is absolutely marvelous. And you know, she'd look gorgeous hanging in my bedroom!! :D

All the best,

Opie

Opie! Thanks so much for the post. I think a lot of us are ascared! Its nice to practice the value-based underpainting without concern for hue. I am going to try some simple (ya right!) fruit studies in color before diving (and drowning!) into something as challenging as skin tones. :D

Your bud,

Vince

artistatheart
05-22-2004, 01:47 PM
hi vince nice piece
i know you have herd this before but here goes. what to be afraid of its just canvas and paint. dive in have some fun you can always go back to black and white. i hadnt done a thing with color pencil in years and just desided to use them one day again and had a great time. and you know what they didnt hurt me a bit lol karen

Classical Vince
05-22-2004, 08:46 PM
Hi Karen, I should be done with color charts by the end of this month. Im studying and will be just fine once I get there. Thanks for the encouragement :)

IAmLeavingEbay4Ever
05-28-2004, 05:15 PM
It's really hard to match colors exactly to real life.
Rex Vicat Cole said that color is the last skill that a painter will master and the first skill that will fail as the painter grows old.