business progress

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

I forgot to tell everyone here that I am going to try to do portraits full time and start with black and white. I got a privilege license for the city but maybe didn't need it but will also get a federal employee id # and sales tax permit.


This Tuesday a lady from the local newspaper in my town will come by and interview me and write an article about my portrait painting. That should be some good advertising and then on May 22, I will be doing a live demo :eek: at a local frame shop. Yes, it be scary to do yo thang in front of people ESPECIALLY when you are basically a newbie (I am) but I think I can handle it. I'll need to condense my details to get more done so they can see it w/o standing for 4 hours but if they want, they could watch from 10am till about 3pm. Maybe outside or on the porch. I really wouldn't consider this once I get some business because it will be a major hassle setting it up. My compressor weighs like 50 or 60 pounds! But even if the demo doesn't knock their socks off, I'll have my two other portraits there visible along with business cards!


I'm also working on my website and hopefully in a few more weeks will be ready to make it available.


Some may think this sounds premature since I have only been doing these for a few months and have only done 4 portraits but I am excited about it and think I can do it.

I wanted to post here because I feel like this is my home forum on WC!.

Thanks,
Tim

[HF AIRBRUSH]

hey tim, good on ya...
yes the article in the newspaper works best...
i would even take a digital camera with me...and take a picture's...this works great on your website...
i'll do this to with my demo's and first i almost have to everyone...please may i give a demo..
these days people even want to pay me to give a demo because they want me to come to the event..hahaha..

i wish you good luck...you desurve it after all the trouble you've been trough...

henk

[AlpineAirbrush]

Wow, that's great Tim ! I agree with Henk. Get someone lined out to take some pics of the event ( You painting and a crowd wathching intently! ). With your enthusiasm and obvious talent it sounds to me like you'll be doing this for a living soon. :cool:

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Thanks AA and henk!!


I will have the lady say in the article that I will be doing a live portrait on May 22 at this place (hehehe shameless plug) and then ask if they can also cover that! hahahaha

Yes, it never hurts to ask.

Well, I'll be honest with ya'll. If I do start doing this full time, it will vindicate me with you know who (yeah, the parents).

I will see if the frame shop can do some cheap advertising for the "event". Man, I hope I don't have any major problems. Like dropping my airbrush, bending the needle and not having a spare! Running out of paint! ARGGGGG.


I ordered more but it was back-ordered. ah, if need be I'll use the OLD way of mixing black and white. Plus, I have a spare airbrush that could do okay but never as good as the Iwata. So, I'll plan for as much of Murphy's Law as possible. hehehehhe


Thanks for the support everyone.

Tim

[HF AIRBRUSH]

tim..just relax...
i never got used to work when people look over my shoulder...
so the firts time i did this demo..i got really nervous if it will be ok...but after 10 min. i forgot about those people and i just painted like i was alone...only this time 10 people looked over my shoulder..and i not even noticed...
you just need to relax and you will see everything will be ok...we've seen your work and we know you can do it...and you know it to...so relax and go for it...i believe in you... ;)

henk

[Milo]

Your going to do great, just take a deep breath and its gonna be fine. Keep us posted and get a reprint of the article so we can read it (the interview that is).

Milo

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Thanks henk and Milo!

I will have to ***loosen up*** for this because I am limited on time so i'll be working faster and probably leaving some detail out but hopefully it will show them the basic way I do it.

Milo, when you say reprint... what is that? Is that something I can ask for from the newspaper?


Well, I'll definitely post here once the article comes out.

Well, I have played guitar in many bands including my own solo effort in front of lots of people so it won't be too bad. I do get a bit nervous prior to something happening but once I start, it goes away.

I'm going to make a sign that lets people know they can ask me questions while I paint. Oh, boy. They are going to get an earfull! hahahahha Color shift and atomization. hehehhehehehehe WOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

I've decided to paint Abraham Lincoln. The photo I will use was taken in the mid 1800s so I feel pretty sure it's now in the public domain.

I'll probably make the tracing onto the board prior to the demo and use 2 references: one the overall and the other a closer version of the face to see the details.


Lots of very dark in his coat and hair so hopefully it will not be too hard. Plus, the pic actually has a narrow depth of field so his eyes/nose/mouth/beard are crisp but the ears, back of hair, etc. are fuzzy. JUST the ticket for ye old airbrush. hehehhehh

here's the ref. w/detail of eye/nose.


Well, I need a new printer to print my refs instead of paying WallyMart $3 a pic. Saw a few in a catalog.


Tim

[Milo]

I've decided to paint Abraham Lincoln. The photo I will use was taken in the mid 1800s so I feel pretty sure it's now in the public domain.

I'll probably make the tracing onto the board prior to the demo and use 2 references: one the overall and the other a closer version of the face to see the details.


Lots of very dark in his coat and hair so hopefully it will not be too hard. Plus, the pic actually has a narrow depth of field so his eyes/nose/mouth/beard are crisp but the ears, back of hair, etc. are fuzzy. JUST the ticket for ye old airbrush. hehehhehh

here's the ref. w/detail of eye/nose.


Well, I need a new printer to print my refs instead of paying WallyMart $3 a pic. Saw a few in a catalog.

Tim

Do you have a kinko's close? They can print digital pictures 8.5x11 is .99 or about .50 more if you want it on a heavy card stock. (or even larger format too) Another neat thing to do is to make a Picture Video CD / Video VCD with Pictures with various pieces of the pictures closeups (or DVD) and put them on your TV. Or even the mail boxes etc can do some digital prints to there color copier (I know yours are BW but same price). This isn't of course the 'photo' process that wallyworld is using I still do alot of 4x6's there :)

Milo

Also thats a great piece to do!!

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

No, Milo. I live in Arkansas! LOL. The nearest Kinkos is Memphis, about a 15 min drive. Woldemart (heheheh) is right up the street. I'll prob get my own printer that does photo quality. Prob won't be more than say $200-300 and I'll never have to fight the parking lot croud and stand in a long line again. Plus, after about a year it'd probably pay for itself in convenience and $.

The printer I have now does color but the quality is not photo quality. I lose a lot of detail and that won't work for me.

Well, I'll need to see what printer looks good once I get some real business coming in. Saw one that said it used 8 colors. Now, I may be cynical here, but if I'm not mistaken, pro printers have used 4 color printing forever with great results but maybe it's better? Maybe it's easier to get some of the odd shades using more starting colors.



Well, thanks.

Tim

[HF AIRBRUSH]

well tim...ive got a Canon i450x and this make's beautiful photo's...this one was very cheap and uses one black box and a color box...
the color box are three colors...
maybe the eight color printers prints great but don't forget the prices of the inkt...these are mostly very expensive..

henk

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Yeah, henk, that ink is where they nail ya! When I get ready to buy one I'll do some research, check usenet opinions, ebay, etc. hehehhehe

Thanks.
Tim

[coherent]

Tim, haven't chatted with you in a bit... best of luck with your business plans! I'm sure you'll do well. I've been working with acrylics (the brush type) so haven't been doing much airbrushing recently. Let us know how things go.
-Marc
P.S. Upgraded all my video, dvd editing stuff... quality keeps gettng better!

[Milo]

No, Milo. I live in Arkansas! LOL. The nearest Kinkos is Memphis, about a 15 min drive. Woldemart (heheheh) is right up the street. I'll prob get my own printer that does photo quality. Prob won't be more than say $200-300 and I'll never have to fight the parking lot croud and stand in a long line again. Plus, after about a year it'd probably pay for itself in convenience and $.

Well, I'll need to see what printer looks good once I get some real business coming in. Saw one that said it used 8 colors. Now, I may be cynical here, but if I'm not mistaken, pro printers have used 4 color printing forever with great results but maybe it's better? Maybe it's easier to get some of the odd shades using more starting colors.


I live in a small town too, we do have a mailboxes etc (Well now a UPS Store) that has a color copier that they have attached and will dump electronic pictures to it for printing.

The new canon printers are really sweet we have been looking for a reason with my wife's business for doing some reproduction work. Separate ink cartridges, Photo Quality, Fast, and supposed to not dry out if they just sit. They have a small and large format version (large comes out in May). We Took in an image into one of the larger stores when we drove into "the city" seems Canon had reps at them and they printed our image on some of the specialty papers my wife needed and they were stunning not to mention there own photo paper.

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Hi coherent! Yes, you've been absent around here. Thanks for the encouragement! It goes a long way. I have no video software, camera, etc. Just a cheap digital camera..... It's sad. I've got $20,000 worth of music equipment and am not using it. I'll probably sell it all and that will help pay off the house and get me a few nice things for my art (a niiiice camera, stand, printer, etc.).


Milo, I'll definitely keep the Canon brand in mind. I have HP and it works fine but I'll check on the Canons.


Thanks,
Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Well, I went all out and bought a Canon i960! WOOOOOOOOO.

For $178 it sounded like the best for me. I read nothing but good things on these Canon printers and the i960 sounded like it would do a bit better than the i850 and I bought some of that Canon photo paper to try.


Goodbye, WallyWorld! hehehehehehhe no more waiting.... no more going back an hour later to pick them up..... no more! yeah, nevermore! heheheh


So, chalk up another business expense!

Thanks for the help, folks.


Tim

[Caterwallin']

Hey Tim.
I like the photo you have chosen. It's going to be a challenge to paint it in 4 hours or so! Are you planning to complete most of it and then demo a lesser section? Or, are you planning to loosen up your style and work really fast? Just wonderin'.

Sam

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Sam, I will be imitating Henk by surrounding myself with 12 of my closest friends (the Miller brothers mainly) and just loosening up a bit. hehwehhwehh

So, I will paint faster and in a nutshell.....


a) trace outlines at home
b) start off doing the background freehand (pause to drink a beer)
c) work on the dark shadows of face (pause to drink a beer)
d) lightly render hair, beard and coat/tie just to give it some visibility (like 3 min version) (pause to drink a beer)
e) darken face/erase some highlights (pause to drink a beer)
f) darken coat/hair and erase some hair highlights (pause to drink a beer)
g) darken very dark and keep erasing (pause to drink a beer)
h) quit and go home dejected cuz no one watched! hehehehheheh DOH (pause to drink a beer) hehehehehehhe

Well, that is my plan. Be faster even if it ain't that hot so I can get to the face and spend more time on it.


It cost $6 to print 2 8x10 at WalrusMart plus having to wait and make two trips.

So, I got a photo printer tonight from amazon.com. hehehehehhe Saves me about $2.50 per pic plus 30 min of my time.


I'll post the results May 22!


Tim

[HF AIRBRUSH]

hey tim, good luck...and don't get drunk.....hahahaha...

henk

[Keith Russell]

Man, I hope I don't have any major problems. Like dropping my airbrush, bending the needle and not having a spare! Running out of paint! ARGGGGG.

I'll plan for as much of Murphy's Law as possible.

I did a LIVE airbrush painting demo on a local cable access arts and crafts program, years ago. About halfway through the program, I spilled a 4-oz bottle of black Badger airbrush paint all over part of the 'kitchen' set. I looked at this massive spill, shrugged, and kept right on painting.

Spent quite a bit of time cleaning the cabinets and the floor of the set, after the show was over. But, neither I nor the host got too rattled 'on-camera'--and the spill wasn't really visible to the audience. That, at least, was good.

(I've also shown up to teach a class without my airbrush, and have had to borrow one from one of my students, and I've had my share of bent needles, too. You're right, planning for Murphy's Law is the best defense.)

You'll do fine. Best of luck to you on your new venture!

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Thanks Keith and Henk.

I've got that "I been dere, done dat" attitude just because I've really been dere and done dat with music and I am aware of the concepts so hopefully that will serve me well as I try to do this new thing.

One example of this is that I knew that Memphis (a 15 min drive from West Memphis) has a thing all month long called "Memphis in May" so I looked at their site and found that May 22 looked a bit light and I planned it for then so that I would have the best chance of people being in WM instead of M. Also, most folk work on Friday so I picked Saturday. These types of things you have to learn to do and I have never cared to care about business and the like until now that I HAVE to. heehheheheh



So, I hope it turns out okay. Man, if it rains..... I'm suing Murphy. hehhehehe


Tim

[HF AIRBRUSH]

hey tim...maybe silly...but do you live near graceland?....would it be an option to paint elvis?...im sure you could sell it...

henk

[Caterwallin']

LOL!! Tim!
I wouldn't invite too many of those closest friends! LOL!!!
I don't think you have to worry about letter H!

Keith, that is a great story! It would be hard to keep your cool in that situation!

I was giving a demo at a local community art center and I had a heckler in the crowd behind me who was constantly telling everyone how he could do it better and that he should be up there instead of me. I was trying hard to ignore him. He went on and on. He commented to the negative on every step I tried to explain. I lost my cool and I turned around and offered him the opportunity to take over the demo! I told him he needed to either put up or shut up!

Shocked, he quietly agreed and came to the front of the room. I asked him to hang on a second while I found him a piece of illustration board to use. While I was bent over, I heard the airbrush hiss and I raised to see that he had just totally destroyed my demo painting! I shook my head and stepped back and told him to continue.

Long story short, he had never even touched an airbrush before! When he relented, he admitted that it was not as easy as I made it look!
The moral to this story is if you have a heckler, ask the management to have him/her removed! Don't give in and loose your cool! They will destroy your painting or show you up!

Either way is "just wrong"! LOL!!!!!

Sam

[hinddee29]

Tim,

This is great news. There is no dought in my mind that you'll go great.
Wish you all the luck in the world. You know we're here for you if you need
us.

Shane

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

hehehehehhe

I bet it was funny in a way. heheh like waaaaaaay afterwards.


Man.... I'd be mad. Well, I won't invite any hecklers to try their hand. heheheh


I'll just insult them like Rodney Dangerfield did in his shows. :eek:


"hey Rodney... what time's the show start?"

"Hey, it's a good thing you're wearing a mustache... it breaks up the monotony of your face!" hehehehhehehe



Well, I'm sure some will feel the urge to show me up or ask if they can try. I'll tell them to get their own show. hehehehhehehehe


Well, I'm sure anything may happen. I'll not dwell on that though.



Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Thanks hindee29!!!!



Tim

[AlpineAirbrush]

Hey Tim , don't forget.....

Hey Rodney, when does the show start? ......

rodney replies....Say, is that you face or did your neck throw up ?? :eek:

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

hehehehehee DOH!


I love the self-deprecating humor of the Rodster. Man, I went into a store to buy some rat poison and the lady asked, "Shall I wrap it up or are you going to eat it here?"


hehehehehhe



Henk, I would be almost 100% sure that I could get in deeeep trouble painting Elvis since his estate is making trillions of dollars from his likeness. I live about 20 or 25 min from Graceland but again, even if I could.... I probably wouldn't due to the many other folk painting him. Oh, I might do ONE Elvis in my highly realistic way just to say I did but not multiple copies. Prints? I suppose if I contacted the Elvis people they'd let me for a cut. Once I get really good and learn color.... maybe it could be an option but I don't know.


Here's a joke I'll tell at my demo:

Hey, did you hear about the abstract artist who locked his keys in his car and had to get a coat hanger to get his family out?


JUST KIDDING!

Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

Tooooo funny! Hey Tim---I have to tell you that I have been planning to get one of the new Canon printers that are coming out in May! I have wanted a good printer for ages, to make prints of my paintings. My hubby told me I could use part of our tax refund to get one, and my son did some research on printers and says this should be one of the best! (And since our old Canon printer just crashed.... :( ) We just got our tax refund today----so, I am counting the days till May when the new printer comes out! Can't wait! :)

~Maryl

[Caterwallin']

(ignoring Tim)
Maryl, which printer is it that you plan on buying?
(/ignoring Tim)

Sam

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Sam, it's <ignoring> then </ignoring> hehehe.


Yeah, which printer?



Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

It's the i9900 Photo Printer by Canon. It will print up to 13" x 19" in less than 3 min. and achieves a resolution of up to 4800 x 2400 dpi. I don't really know anything about it, but my son seems to think it's good. Do you know of a better choice I should be going with?

~Maryl

[HF AIRBRUSH]

hey maryl,
i think that 4800 x 2400 dpi is great...but in 3 min...hmmmm...that depends on your computer...
if your computer doesn't have much memory then you wont make it in 3 min...

henk

[Caterwallin']

Maryl, here is a link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/conCprProductDetail.jsp?modelid=9870&item=10027&section=10214

Is the type and size of printer you can buy based on budget?
I know mine is!
I will look around at some other printers!

Sam

[Caterwallin']

ignoring Tim switch - ON

Ok, Marryl, here is my #3 (third) choice of printers:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=20306147

I have not done a side by side comparison yet! I will.

Sam

ignoring Tim switch - OFF

Tim, have you done a lot of research into copyright infringement when it comes to painting know celebs????

Sam

[Maryl Lehman]

Wow, Sam! That Epson sounds great, but I only have $500.00 to spend. :crying:

It doesn't really matter about how long it takes to print (within reason, of course!). Please do a side by side comparison and let me know what you think. Thanks!

~Maryl

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

<samwho?> hehehhe


Maryl,

I saw nothing but good reviews on the Canon machines and one man owned an Epson and was saying the Canon he got comparable to it was much better. I can't speak from experience - only hearsay but on amazon.com and many other review sites I saw almost all 5 stars for Canon printers.

That i900 sounds sweet for < $500 but I'll have to wait. :crying: heheheheh


</samwho>

<samolepal>

First, my disclaimer:

I AM NOT A LAWYER. I AM NOT GIVING LEGAL ADVICE. I AM STATING MY OPINIONS ONLY.

Um, I have done some reading concerning copyright laws but there seems to be no consensus as to the correct way of proceeding if you want to paint a celeb or photo in general. Is the photo yours? Then can you paint it? If so, can you make 1000 prints and sell em? What if the photo isn't yours? What if the celeb photo was taken before 1929 (i.e., more than 75 years ago)?

I can only formulate vague rules of thumb from the hours of reading on here and the web.

1) Try to get permission FIRST. Solves it all. Either they say yes or no.

2) If the work is > 75 years old, it is generally in the public domain and therefore can be copied, reproduced, sold, etc.

3) Even if the copyright is still active, painting from a photo for learning (i.e., not going to sell 1000 copies of it) would be safe since no one could claim you had taken any profit away from the copyright holder.

4) Avoid the issue again by taking your own reference photos and for models, have them sign a model release form.


So, I would feel safe copying an old photo that was taken before 1929 as long as I did NOT see any copyright notice (copyright can be extended beyond the norm in some circumstances). If I see that someone or some agency "owns" the image, it's back to rule one again.


There is also the issue of safety in numbers and lack of exposure - paint one copy and sell it to a friend or local buyer and you probably will never get in trouble. Paint one copy, offer prints on eBay and look out!



My personal take is that lawyers love and thrive on the ambiguity that seems to pervade legal matters of even the simplest sort (i.e., job security) for if each scenario was dilineated clearly on the govt.'s website, there would be little need for copyright lawyers except for maybe infringement claims where the people felt unable to cogently argue their case based on the clearcut rules that would already be known!!!

For example, how does one find out who owns the copyright to an image one finds on the web? You can't as far as I know unless that info is given with the image and that is no longer a legal requirement.

Also, if you alter the original so that it doesn't look like it was derived from it, then it's okay but that is sure an iffy proposition to me and TOTALLY defaets the purpose of copying a photo! LOL.

Finally, for those deep thinkers..... as more people populate the planet and more become self-employed in creating art (music, visual, etc.) then unintentional infringement is going to happen more frequently since millions will be painting similar ideas. Nothing is new yet the copyright concept would have us believe that we can create totally unique entities! It boils down to not getting unlucky enough for someone to stumble upon your work and single you out because something they did looks very similar - similar enough for them to sue you even though you both came up with the idea independently (although perhaps from other sources that already existed such as a photo or sketch). Yes, whoever has the earliest date of copyright registration will win but it will be a huge hassle anyway. Better check Boris' website to make sure your warrioress fighting a dragon is not too similar to his! hehehehe

Sam, what if I paint a woman with blond hair, lit from the right, with her head held low as if she was sad? Is that okay with you? What if I want some braids in her hair? What if she happens to look similar to yours?

So, I choose to not worry so much about it now but if I want to sell a piece (or multiples) I will make sure it is not violating an existing copyright to the best of my knowledge! But I won't spend hours scouring the web to see if anyone has done something similar before me.



Anyway, I'm sure I'm way off here. LOL!!!! dats my 26 dollars and 84 cents.



</samolepal>

Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Well, the lady interviewed me but actually I mostly just rambled on like an idiot! heheh I hope she can make me sound intelligent! She snapped a few pics of 2 portraits and me "painting". I'll see the article tonight when I get home from work.


testing...... hehehehhe


Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

Tim, I hope the write-up from your interview turns out great! I had one done once and the guy (bless his heart) got so many things turned around, I was teased by many! But it was kind of funny!

As for the two printers---the Canon and the Epson---Brandon (my son) says the Epson (for $699.00) is permanent ink and the Canon isn't. Will that matter if I'm selling the prints? Permanent sure sounds better to me, but I don't know if I can afford it. And if the end result of the Canon looks better....but it's not permanent....? Just wondering. Did you do any comparisons yet Sam? And what kind of paper is best to use? I don't really like the shiny look---it doesn't look like the original. I bought some Museo but haven't used it yet. Has anyone tried it?

~Maryl

[Keith Russell]

Um, I have done some reading concerning copyright laws but there seems to be no consensus as to the correct way of proceeding if you want to paint a celeb or photo in general. Is the photo yours? Then can you paint it?

Precedence has established that celebrities own their own likeness, at least while they're alive. Dustin Hoffman sued (successfully!) a few years ago to stop a company from using an image of him from the film Tootsie, a film to which Mr. Hoffman does not own the copyright. He won his suit, because it is him in the photo, regardless.

If so, can you make 1000 prints and sell em?

I would strongy advise against it!

What if the photo isn't yours?

Then you might be sued by the person in the photo, and the person who took the photo, and the entity that owns the copyright to the image, if they are three different entities!

What if the celeb photo was taken before 1929 (i.e., more than 75 years ago)?

Then, you'd better check and see if the deceased celebs have heirs. The heirs of the three stooges sued a guy (successfully) a few years ago, and got him to stop making airbrushed T-shirts featuring the Stooges' faces. Also, he had to destroy the T-shirts he'd already made. (I think he had to pay a fine to cover some additional damages, as well.)

I can only formulate vague rules of thumb from the hours of reading on here and the web.

1) Try to get permission FIRST. Solves it all. Either they say yes or no.

You're probably not going to get permission. If there's money to be made--and, in licensing, there is always money to be made! If you want to use someone's face (and if doing so could make that person money), then you'd better be prepared to pay some money first, for the rights to do so.

2) If the work is > 75 years old, it is generally in the public domain and therefore can be copied, reproduced, sold, etc.

Unless it an image from Disney (or of the Stooges), or from Warner Bros., or the the owners of numerous other popular properties!

3) Even if the copyright is still active, painting from a photo for learning (i.e., not going to sell 1000 copies of it) would be safe since no one could claim you had taken any profit away from the copyright holder.

Right. Giving a painting to your nephew, for him to hang on his bedroom wall, won't get you sued.

4) Avoid the issue again by taking your own reference photos and for models, have them sign a model release form.

That's the best way to go.

[snip]

Finally, for those deep thinkers...as more people populate the planet and more become self-employed in creating art (music, visual, etc.) then unintentional infringement is going to happen more frequently since millions will be painting similar ideas.

Do you really believe that we're all thieves, that no one is really creative any more? (I sure hope your cynicism isn't catching!) Do you truly see creativity suddenly vanishing--all at onec, in toto--just because there will be more people on earth, in the future, than there are now?

More people will result in more creativity, not less...

Nothing is new yet the copyright concept would have us believe that we can create totally unique entities!

That depends--greatly--on what you mean by 'totally unique'. There is no such thing as a copyright on painting itself, nor is the human figure, or any part thereof, protected under copyright law. I suppose you could claim that a 'figure painting' is not an 'original, unique idea'--but if one creates a painting of a figure from a model that one hired and posed, the law--at least--sees that as a completely original work.

It boils down to not getting unlucky enough for someone to stumble upon your work and single you out because something they did looks very similar -

No, it's an issue of following (and staying with) your own ideas, and not emulating someone else's style, techniques, subject matter, or concepts. There are plenty of artists who have found their own original 'voices', in the shadow of Boris and Frazetta. They have not been sued, nor have they had their woks called into question.

The ones who do get sued, are clearly using other artists' works for as the basis for the majority of their own works. It's not even a question of similarity.

--similar enough for them to sue you even though you both came up with the idea independently (although perhaps from other sources that already existed such as a photo or sketch).

I disagree. I think if one sticks to one's own ideas, and/or uses one's own photos and/or models, things will work out fine. It's when one pays too much attention to another artist's work--usually as a result of doubting one's own abilities, or from laziness as a result of same--that one runs into trouble.

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Keith,

Thanks for the replies. I did not intend to imply or say that i feel people are consiously stealing all the time. I meant that with millions painting, it is inevitable that two artists will paint a painting so similar that one will claim the other stole their idea. That is a fact that happens in all creative mediums but maybe moreso in music and art. You should know this is true, being a musician yourself! There are only 12 notes - period! How many tunes can sound different when millions are written? That is all I am saying is that sometimes there is unintentional infringement.


I also agree that you should try to achieve your own style eventually. Lucky for me, I stink compared to Boris. hehyehehehhehe No copyright infringement here - it looks totally different! hahahahhah



Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

HEADLINE: A PORTRAIT ARTIST USES A DIFFERENT STROKE


hehehehehehehehhehehehe Giddy! hehehe


Yeah, I got a whole page spread and a full body pic of me at the drafting table airbrushing and best of all, I am wearing my dustmask! hahahahhaha Plus, I'm in color!


There was also a color shot of me airbrushing Kenny and Tonya in color on another page as a teaser. Total of 4 pics. They put Jimi and Big Mamma (grandma) in there but not very large (dang it). Still, Jimi looks just like a photo! ahahah

I had one lady call from the article and (hope it isn't an omen) she was leaving her # and the first 3 digits were totally silent! I called 735, 733, 732, 702.... no luck. sigh.....

Hey, guess what? I made airbrushers sound cool. hehehe I told them that in the right hands the results can be GREAT! I also gave credit to Bill Alexander and Bob Ross. (got me going in painting)

One thing she wrote made me sound like I was putting down T-shirt painters. :eek: Fortunately for me, there is probably one other airbrusher in West Memphis! hehehehehe

Well, there goes my 15 minutes of fame. hehehehe

I wish I had known she was takin a full body shot. My butt looks old and my belly looks like it's hanging over my belt! hhahahhahha

Ah, well. But I look like I am really airbrushing but i was posing cuz I had nothing to put up that was half done so I used that guitar one I did with space stuff, planets, etc.


Gotta call tomorrow and thank the writer for a great job!!!!!!!


One guy at work kept trying to trick me into signing forms so he'd be able to sell 'em once I got famous. hehehehehhehhe


Well, that's all for now.



Exciting!


Tim

[Caterwallin']

Maryl, I have not reviewed the two yet. Sounds as though Brandon has. I personally would think that the permanent ink would be archival, therefore being the choice I would make. I think that both printers are top quality name brands and you probably can't go wrong with either. I own several Cannon products and they have worked flawlessly! I also own a Epson printer (777i) and it to has worked impeccably! That's why I say that the important thing to me for printing my own, on demand print, would be the permanence of the ink! Why cant you use permanent ink in the Cannon?

Tim, I suspect that your write up will be great! You will have to post us the article when it comes out!

Tim and Keith, thanks for the insight into copyright infringement! My next question is (Sam sounding stupid switch - ON) Do the laws vary for a one time personal sale of a unknown, but suspected, copyrighted image sold and prints are never made? (Sam sounding stupid switch - OFF).

Tim, based on what I've heard here, my best suggestion is that if you really want to paint a celebrity image for a demo and/or your own personal collection, as long as it's not for sale, you would probably be safe!


Sam

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Maryl, I am not sure about the permanancy issue but I recall reading hearsay that the Canon prints were guaranteed for 25 years. Of course, that aint permanent. I wonder if you can use permanent ink in the Canons?


Anyway, hope you get a great one that does the job.


Tim

[Keith Russell]

Keith,

Thanks for the replies. I did not intend to imply or say that i feel people are consiously stealing all the time. I meant that with millions painting, it is inevitable that two artists will paint a painting so similar that one will claim the other stole their idea. That is a fact that happens in all creative mediums but maybe moreso in music and art. You should know this is true, being a musician yourself! There are only 12 notes - period! How many tunes can sound different when millions are written?

12 notes (more, actually--if you're Wendy Carlos. Even temperment, anyone?) playable over the ten or so octaves perceivable to the human ear. Each human voice is individually distinctive, plus there are endless different environments in which to record the thousands of instrument timbres (and millions of vocal timbres). Then, you have hundreds of existing genres, within which each musician has the potential to invent their own 'style' (and there are several ways to interpret 'style') or even, a new genre.

I have over a thousand CDs, and each one is quite discernably different from all the others.

That is all I am saying is that sometimes there is unintentional infringement.

John Fogerty (former singer/songwriter for Creedence Clearwater Revival) was sued by the company that owns the 'Creedence' catalog. Mr. Fogerty was sued because that Mr. Fogerty had recorded a song for one of his solo albums that was a 'rip-off' of one of Mr. Fogerty's 'Creedence' songs.

The record company brought in several high-priced lawyers, along with lots of equipment to 'analyze' the two songs in question, and point out their (obvious) similarities.

Mr. Fogerty showed up with his lawyer, and his guitar. He calmly played both songs, just his voice, and the same guitar.

Mr. Fogerty won the case.

I think 'intentional' infringement is pretty obvious: (Huey Lewis vs. Ray Parker, Jr.); I think unintentional infringement (for example, when two songs written by the same songwriter show--expectedly--certain similiarities) is also pretty obvious.

I also think that 'sincerity', as difficult as it is to define, is also fairly obvious in art, whether visual art or music, or any other artform.

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Keith,

I know that there can be almost infinite possibilities but I wasn't talking about those. I was saying that the choices for songwriting are limited enough (unless you want to write music that is alien to any style or past work) that many songs will infringe just because they used 7 notes of a melody over the same 3 chords but waaait, they didn't MEAN to do it and claim to have never heard the older version but the point is... it has happened. My point stands and you make valid points but when you have 18 year-old grunge guitarists playingh 3-chord choruses and the record companies pumping them out each month, they all start sounding alike (how many 6-, 4, 1, 5 progressions can you take?????).


I hear songs all the time (and have actually contemplated logging them) that sound clearly derivative of an earlier work - enough so that I NOTICED the similarity but where do we draw the line? 3 notes? 7 notes? If I played the first 7 notes of Somewhere Over the Rainbow in my song over similar or the same chords, is that infringement? What if I only began my solo with those notes and not the melody of the tune?


Fact: intentional copying happens (we agree on that).

Fact: unintentional copying happens to a lesser degree (do we agree?)

In fact, there is a tune on my CD that starts off a lot like a Satriani tune but I did not consciously copy it - I was a big Satch fan and that FEEL stuck in my head and it leaked out into my fingers.

Yes, it seems a wider playground in music than it really is until you narrow the scope to pop music. To me, most of it sounds like yesterday's leftovers. But sometimes it does sound fresh and it is the combination of elements (as you stated) that helps make it so.

Watchu thank?

P.S. The equally tempered scale is a compromise to the older tuning scheme (pre-Bach) whereby the only GOOD key to play in was C (the white keys of the piano). In the older scheme, the notes of the C major scale (and of course, A minor, it's relative) were optimized to sound "in tune" with themselves. This was great in C but if you played in any other key.... crap. In the old tuning, the major third interval (C and E) sounding great because they tuned them to sound great. (In the even tempered version, the E note is slightly too high and average Joe will go to the grave never knowing this but I can't play a 3rd on the guitar without half hating it. It is, quite simply, out of tune.)

So, they finally settled on a compromise that actually made the key of C sound WORSE but the other keys no worse than that (all keys were EQUALLY TEMPERED and Bach even has a tune called the "well-tempered clavier") and it has nothing to do with quarter tones or more than 12 notes. It has to do with the harmonic overtones of notes played simultaneously and whether they mathematically "match well" or not. Modern music uses the equal tempered scale because it's the lesser of two evils but that makes the 3rds out of tune slightly and yet... somehow we accept it.


Now, instruments that use non-fixed means to make each note (voilin, voice, etc.) can actually CHANGE the tuning on the fly and make each chord sound in tune.


I think you were thinking of Indian music using quarter tones (between half steps) and that gives you more note possibilities but mathematically, they don't match all that well and intrinsically, sound... not that great if sustained simultaneously (polyphonic). Perhaps that's why you never hear a sitar player playing more than one note at a time?

Tim

[Keith Russell]

Keith,

I know that there can be almost infinite possibilities but I wasn't talking about those. I was saying that the choices for songwriting are limited enough (unless you want to write music that is alien to any style or past work) that many songs will infringe just because they used 7 notes of a melody over the same 3 chords but waaait, they didn't MEAN to do it and claim to have never heard the older version but the point is... it has happened. My point stands and you make valid points but when you have 18 year-old grunge guitarists playingh 3-chord choruses and the record companies pumping them out each month, they all start sounding alike (how many 6-, 4, 1, 5 progressions can you take?????).

I like only one grunge work: Neil Young's Re - Ac - Tor. Nirvana was already more than a decade behind the times, when Smells Like Teen Spirit was released, IMO.

I hear songs all the time (and have actually contemplated logging them) that sound clearly derivative of an earlier work - enough so that I NOTICED the similarity but where do we draw the line?

I think the line is being drawn by the courts, and so far, that is just fine by me.

3 notes? 7 notes? If I played the first 7 notes of Somewhere Over the Rainbow in my song over similar or the same chords, is that infringement?

I think the legal view would be twofold; is the rest of your song different enough that the one reference to Over the Rainbow could rightly be considered an 'homage'? Second: are the owners of the rights to Over the Rainbow upset by your use of those 7 notes, in your song?

What if I only began my solo with those notes and not the melody of the tune?

Then you'd probably be OK--and I've heard enough solos that seem to purposefully 'reference' other works (with no accompanying lawsuits) to believe that you'd be fine.

Fact: intentional copying happens (we agree on that).

Sure.

Fact: unintentional copying happens to a lesser degree (do we agree?)

I'm not sure we agree. Once you've established that it was copying, I'm not sure how you'd establish that it was unintentional. The members of Art of Noise stated years ago that they 'wrote' the Peter Gunn theme (ex nihilo while jamming. When their engineer heard what they were playing, he played the original version for them, and they realized that they had just written an 'original tune' that nonetheless already existed. They had to get permission from the composer (Mancini?) in order to include their own composition (if you believe them) on their album.

They claim it was unintentional, and yet who knows? Had one of the band members heard Peter Gunn, and simply played it without realizing that it was someone else's music? (Very likely. 'Course, given the simplicity of Peter Gunn, it's also quite possible that it happened exactly as they claimed.) Was it 'unintentional'? I don't know, and I have no way to know.

In fact, there is a tune on my CD that starts off a lot like a Satriani tune but I did not consciously copy it - I was a big Satch fan and that FEEL stuck in my head and it leaked out into my fingers.

Whether or not you 'stole', then, would be up to Joe and the courts to decide. If Joe's heard it, and not bothered by it, you're home free. If not...

Yes, it seems a wider playground in music than it really is until you narrow the scope to pop music.

More and more, I listen to pop less and less.

To me, most of it sounds like yesterday's leftovers. But sometimes it does sound fresh and it is the combination of elements (as you stated) that helps make it so.

Watchu thank?

I looked at a copy of Rolling Stone the other day. They don't list the various Top Tens (College, R & B, Rap, Alternative, etc.) as Billboard does; they just print the Pop Top 40 chart.

I hadn't heard of one artist on the chart. (I hadn't heard any of the songs either, but I was a bit surprised that I didn't even recognize one of the artists!)

P.S. The equally tempered scale is a compromise to the older tuning scheme (pre-Bach) whereby the only GOOD key to play in was C (the white keys of the piano). In the older scheme, the notes of the C major scale (and of course, A minor, it's relative) were optimized to sound "in tune" with themselves. This was great in C but if you played in any other key.... crap. In the old tuning, the major third interval (C and E) sounding great because they tuned them to sound great. (In the even tempered version, the E note is slightly too high and average Joe will go to the grave never knowing this but I can't play a 3rd on the guitar without half hating it. It is, quite simply, out of tune.)

So, they finally settled on a compromise that actually made the key of C sound WORSE but the other keys no worse than that (all keys were EQUALLY TEMPERED and Bach even has a tune called the "well-tempered clavier") and it has nothing to do with quarter tones or more than 12 notes. It has to do with the harmonic overtones of notes played simultaneously and whether they mathematically "match well" or not. Modern music uses the equal tempered scale because it's the lesser of two evils but that makes the 3rds out of tune slightly and yet... somehow we accept it.

Now, instruments that use non-fixed means to make each note (voilin, voice, etc.) can actually CHANGE the tuning on the fly and make each chord sound in tune.

As well as digital synthesizers, sampers, and computers.

I think you were thinking of Indian music using quarter tones (between half steps) and that gives you more note possibilities but mathematically, they don't match all that well and intrinsically, sound... not that great if sustained simultaneously (polyphonic). Perhaps that's why you never hear a sitar player playing more than one note at a time?

No, I meant even temperment, as an example of just one alternate tuning. If a note is tuned different than the standard, it could be seen as being a completely different (additional) note. With even and equal temperment, we have two scales...24 notes. Add the Eastern scales (which I think can have as few as five, or as many as fourteen or fifteen, notes per scale, and you add a whole new range of possibilities.)

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Keith,

The Peter Gunn story sounds believable. It is not inconceivable that someone could accidentally stumble upon the 8-note sequence of the Peter Gunn lick. If it was more unique (that major 3rd or 8th note is a tad unusual) than it is then it becomes more probable that they intentionally copied or remembered it subconsciously and THOUGHT they wrote it when they were just playing what was already in their heads. Hard to say. But to me it is possible to duplicate a short phrase w/o ever hearing it before.

You make good points about the homage issue and I am a bit like you in that I leave it up to the court and just try never to copy on purpose unless it is an overall feel or style. Like "Oh, what a great idea but I'll change most of it and use a cool color palette instead of warm and ..". If it is MINE (except for the initial inspiration) then I should be okay.


Nice chatting!

P.S. Neil was grungy all right but I never listened to much of his stuff. I was into the more refined rock on the late 70s and 80s (Van Halen, Boston, etc.)


Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Regarding the article about me.... it isn't available on the web. :crying:

I did plug WC! though!!!

Got 2 calls already from the article.


Tim

[Keith Russell]

Keith,

The Peter Gunn story sounds believable. It is not inconceivable that someone could accidentally stumble upon the 8-note sequence of the Peter Gunn lick. If it was more unique (that major 3rd or 8th note is a tad unusual) than it is then it becomes more probable that they intentionally copied or remembered it subconsciously and THOUGHT they wrote it when they were just playing what was already in their heads. Hard to say. But to me it is possible to duplicate a short phrase w/o ever hearing it before.

You make good points about the homage issue and I am a bit like you in that I leave it up to the court and just try never to copy on purpose unless it is an overall feel or style. Like "Oh, what a great idea but I'll change most of it and use a cool color palette instead of warm and ..". If it is MINE (except for the initial inspiration) then I should be okay.


Nice chatting!

Definitely.

P.S. Neil was grungy all right but I never listened to much of his stuff. I was into the more refined rock on the late 70s and 80s (Van Halen, Boston, etc.)

My tastes have always stayed pretty much on the other side of the pond. In the late 70s I was listening to Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, ELP, Zeppelin, the Who, and (from Canada) Rush. In the 80s that translated into Depeche Mode, Simple Minds, the Cure, peter gabriel, Kate Bush, Siouxsie, King Crimson, XTC, Thomas Dolby, Duran Duran, etc. (though I still enjoyed the 70s bands, too, and still do!) The only American rock artists I enjoyed then (which are pretty much the same ones I still enjoy now) are Blue Oyster Cult, DEVO, Tom Waits, Blondie, Grateful Dead, and Talking Heads.

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Also, if I am right, you are a tad older than I? I'm 40 now but I was playing electric guitar during the Kiss, Ted Nugent, Van Halen days and really didn't listen to the more progressive rock of that time and later. I did love me some Rush and of course learned many of their tunes (Red Barchetta, Limelight, Spirit (OMG!) of Radio, damn, I used to do em NOTE FOR NOTE!). How bout Triumph??? LOL! I did win 2nd place in the ultimate guitar competition in memphis one year so I was honing my chops on the rock/neo classical/heavy metal players first and then later the Satches, Vais, Eric Johnson's, Greg Howe (although he's way beyond me in finesse and technique), etc. I never really dug jazz and wasn't exposed to the players who were good but not mainstream.

Brian May. OMG! Bohemian Rhapsody note for note!!!!


Uh oh. You have done it to me again. Waaaay off-topic! Why you.......


Well, it's nice reminiscing even though I am for now disabled!!!!! waaaaaaaaaaaa


Catch you later. Hey, what say we visit the debate forum and stir up some trouble? :evil:




Tim

[Keith Russell]

Also, if I am right, you are a tad older than I?

I'll be 38 in August.

I'm 40 now but I was playing electric guitar during the Kiss, Ted Nugent, Van Halen days and really didn't listen to the more progressive rock of that time and later. I did love me some Rush and of course learned many of their tunes (Red Barchetta, Limelight, Spirit (OMG!) of Radio, damn, I used to do em NOTE FOR NOTE!).

Well, I'm mainly a keyboard player, so although I love listening to Rush, back in the mid-80s when I was playing in bands, there wasn't all that much for a keyboard player to do, where Rush was concerned. I was in a band that played YYZ and Limelight, but enjoyed playing Steely Dan, Robert Plant, Journey, Kansas, a bit o' George Benson, etc., more than playing Rush, 'cause there was more for me to do--though I wasn't the lead singer, I was the only one in the band who could sing Limelight--still can. (I haven't been in a band that played Rush in about seventeen years, well before theie Power Windows, keyboard-heavy phase). I'm not currently in a band right now, either.

How bout Triumph?

I liked Triumph well enough, and Max Webster, and Brand X, UK, and Marillion.

I did win 2nd place in the ultimate guitar competition in memphis one year so I was honing my chops on the rock/neo classical/heavy metal players first and then later the Satches, Vais, Eric Johnson's, Greg Howe (although he's way beyond me in finesse and technique), etc.

Excellent! How about Allan Holdsworth?

I never really dug jazz and wasn't exposed to the players who were good but not mainstream.

I played in a pro jazz band for several months, right after graduating from high school, summer of 1984.

Brian May. OMG! Bohemian Rhapsody note for note!

The Way it Is, Bruce Hornsby and the Range, note for note. Locomotive Breath, Jethro Tull, note for note. Yeah, I remember those days...

Hey, what say we visit the debate forum and stir up some trouble?

I'm already way ahead of you...

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

heheheheheheh

38???? Why was I thinking you were in the 50s??? oh well. Sorry. heheheheh


Holdsworth was one unique guitarist. I don't know many tunes of his but have heard him a few times and understand his "thing". Can you say "legato"? Sure. I knew you could.

Steely Dan I like and I started liking them after I hurt my fingers and have never really tried to learn any but I love the guitar tone to "Book Keeper's Son" (is that the title?). Never going back to my old school, I'll tell ya that. heheheh


Sitting on a park bench DAH... DAH DAH.... hehehehehe Is that called Aqualung or Locomotive breath? I was not into Tull much. My musical exposure in youth was very narrow. It was very rock/hard rock oriented but more mainstream radio I guess. Blues? Never liked traditional blues too much. Too redundant.

How bout Styx? heheheheheheh

Oooh. King's X? I chatted with Ty Tabor after a show for a while. He griped
about his squealing pickups. hehehe typical perfectionist.


Well, gotta sleep.......


Tim

[Keith Russell]

Why was I thinking you were in the 50s?

Well, my wife turns 49 this year. And, I was listening (and paying attention) to music in my early teens, when most fans of that music were in their early 20s.

Holdsworth was one unique guitarist. I don't know many tunes of his but have heard him a few times and understand his "thing". Can you say "legato"? Sure. I knew you could.

Holdsworth still is one unique guitarist. He is sponsored by Carvin these days, and released an album last year, I think.

[qutoe]Steely Dan I like and I started liking them after I hurt my fingers and have never really tried to learn any but I love the guitar tone to "Book Keeper's Son" (is that the title?).[/quote]

Don't Take Me Alive. My band in college played that song. I had to explain the lyrics to our vocalist. Agents of the law, luckless pedestrians, I know you're out there, with rage in your eyes and your megaphones, saying 'all is forgiven', 'Mad Dog' surrender. How can I answer? (A man of my mind can do anything!)

Absolutely phenomenal lyrics.

Never going back to my old school, I'll tell ya that.

Yup.

Sitting on a park bench DAH... DAH DAH.... hehehehehe Is that called Aqualung or Locomotive breath?

That's Aqualung, from the album of the same title. Locomotive Breath is on that album. Old Charlie stole the handle, and the train it won't stop goin', though it could slow down. (With the real crunchy guitar chords.)

I was not into Tull much.

My favourite Tull album is probably Minstrel in the Gallery, followed by the 'late 70s trilogy' of Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses, and Stormwatch.

My musical exposure in youth was very narrow. It was very rock/hard rock oriented but more mainstream radio I guess. Blues? Never liked traditional blues too much. Too redundant.

Oh, I agree completely, although I love Robert Cray, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and John Lee Hooker. Just can't listen to too much of it...

How bout Styx?

I actually like Styx, Alan Parsons Project, early Heart, and some Journey. I saw Journey on the Frontiers tour, an absolutely amazing show (and the last one before several original members left, if I'm not mistaken. I also saw the Moody Blues with Patrick Moraz, right after he left Yes. That was another great show!

I used to be quite the metal-head, too. I saw Ozzy with Randy, and I saw Maiden on the Piece of Mind tour. I still like loud music, saw KMFDM last fall (louder than Maiden, I kid you not.) And, my wife and I just saw The Crystal Method last Sunday...

King's X? I chatted with Ty Tabor after a show for a while. He griped
about his squealing pickups. hehehe typical perfectionist.

I knew some guys who thought that, if you liked Rush, you'd probably like King's X. I never heard enough of their stuff to form an opinion, though.

Take care,

K

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Ahhhh, noooo it won't slow down... chucka chucka chucka chuck ... hehehe


I remember that one. The lick was like 1 1 1 3- 7- 1 (in A would be A A A C G A).


I have gone to only a handful of concerts. Saw Ozzy when Jake played with (uh, for) him. hehehe Bark at daaaaa mooon.


Saw Rush. Elvis! and a few others.


Well, take it easy and I'll be chatting with ya.


Tim

[Milo]

Congrats on the 2 calls!

time to scan that article for us :)

If you had a mac I would say go play with garage band *smile*

Milo

PS my workshop and house are in total disarray, they are replacing the flooring in the house and yup alot of things ended up in the workshop. But I was promised by the wife to help me get it cleaned up and organized Wooot

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

I'll read it into my PC and upload here. Or in the business forum? If it is better in the business forum maybe the moderators will move it anyway.



Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Here's the text of the article. I've noted misspelled words and mistakes in square brackets. In places, I sound incoherent. heheheh but she patched some things together that really didn't fit well.



A portrait artist uses a different stroke

2004/04/28


"A portrait is something you can pass on from generation to generation... they're not temporary," said Tim Simmons, a local artist who is now creating portraits using an unusual medium for such a subject - air brush.
"I think of air brush as a tool, and in the right hands, it can be nice," Simmons explained. "If you spray loosely, it looks like an air brush (work), but if you do it just right, it can look good and you don't know why."
Simmons is now using air brush to create life-like black-and-white portraits, using photographs as his subjects.
"Historically, air brush has been for T-shirts, or even art on cars and posters. It's not being considered what you'd call fine art... what I'm doing is painting portraits using air brush and spraying acrylic. The whole point of (my portraits) is I don't want them to look like an air brush," said Simmons. Yet, he said, with air brush he can create strokes which can't be produced as easily using traditional brushes with oil or acrylic paint.
Simmons begins each work by tracing the person's features onto the canvas, "the landmarks," he said, "that make you look like you," such as eyes, nose and mouth. He then uses the air brush and a number of different tools - including pencils, colored pencils, erasers, electric erasers and typewriter erasers as well as razors - to sharpen the details of the person's face, including lines and highlights.
"In working on a portrait, I'm constantly analyzing, planning, fixing... I've always had a lot of patience ... and that's something you've got to have to create detailed art."
"I'm able to sit for hours at a time ... it's like meditation. When I'm painting, the world doesn't exist, just me, the air brush and the pencil... what's happening now."
And the results speak for themselves, black-and-white portraits on white canvas which appear at first glance as actual photographs.
"When a lot of people think of a portrait, they think of an oil painting, but I can get tons of details in a short time."
Simmons said he can finished one of these life-like portraits in as little as 20 hours, depending on the simplicity of the picture and the number of subjects, with details that can look even more intricate than an oil painting, a medium which takes hours longer to complete.
"I've only done four of these portraits, but when people see them their jaws open," said Simmons mimicking their reaction. "They say,'It looks like a photograph'... that's a real pat on the back."
But Simmons cautions that this artistic accomplishment is, as the old saying goes, one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.
"Most people who see (these portraits) say how talented I am... but I say no. "I didn't wake up and start doing this ... I have high expectations of myself ... and when it's done, I want to be satisfied."
Simmons has received favorable reviews of his portraits from fellow artists at his favorite Internet site, wetcanvas.com, a place for artists to display their works and receive meaningful criticism and exchange creative ideas.
As to what led Simmons to tackle portrait painting with air brush and acrylic, he said his interest in visual art harks back to his childhood. However, he special[sic] drew inspiration from the original masters of the wet on what technique."
Bob Ross began marketing his technique on his highly popular PBS series "The Joy of Painting," in which he created gorgeous landscapes with a flick of a brush or the pat of a blade. Later an artist named Bill Alexander picked up and further perfected the technique which enabled him to finish a portrait[sic, landscape] in as little as 20 minutes. [Bob Ross came 2nd, Alexander was before him]
"I was amazed," said Simmons of the speed and beauty of their work. "I said,'I can do that.'"
So he built his own easel, bought some paints and went through the steps to learn wet on wet technique.
"A lot of 'artists' don't call this art because it's so quick and lacks details," admitted Simmons. "But for me, it let me know I would actually accomplish something."
In 1994, Simmons said a friend exposed him to air brushing and he loved it. However, after buying his own air brush in 1995, he never really made time to use it.
"But six or seven months ago ... I just thought, I've got to get back to doing air brush," said Simmons. "And I've got to get serious and do high quality, not just blowing T-shirts." [Ouch! Did I really say that?]
So Simmons bought a better air brush, changed to a higher quality paint and bought some instructional videos.
"Those three things took me to a new level... then once I saw guys on videos painting a face, I thought,'I can do that.'
"Well I just got on a kick... It's something I see I've got some ability to do."
Added Simmons, a computer instructor at a Memphis college, "It's hard not to quit my job (to do this)... Some people worry about doing art for a living, that they'll not have time for their own art, but I don't worry about it... I'd rather be doing art."
But Simmons' goal is to garner enough clients to pursue his air brush portrait work as a full-time business.
"It's not that I'm great... But the more I do, the better I get."
Among his first attempts with this new medium was a portrait of the late Jimmi[sic] Hendrix.
"I've been playing guitar for 30 years and he's a guitarist from the 60's (and) he's recognizable visually."
Simmons said he enjoyed the challenge of creating Hendrix's large Afro, with all of its swirls and curls. He treated the project as an experiment and posted his progress on the wet canvas web site for others to review and critique.
Added Simmons, "I want the hardest critique anybody on the planet can throw at me to make me see things I don't see."
He's also completed a portrait of a couple he knows from work as well as a matching set of portraits of his mother's parents, all with exceptional attention to detail.
To air brush a portrait, Simmons said he requires at least one photograph, maybe two, to view the face from different angles. He can also air brush a portrait of two or more persons, all from different pictures. And, like a modern day photographer, he can brush out unwanted features to enhance the subject's portrait.
Said Simmons, "A lot of people have really never seen a portrait... But there are so many churches, or events like marriages or births that would make great portraits."
On May 22 at 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM, Simmons will do a public demonstration of his air brush portrait painting at Different Strokes frame shop, located at 412 North Missouri, West Memphis.
For more information on Simmons' portrait work, he can be reached at home by calling 870 732-4711 or by email at studio@timsimmons.com.


Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

The main pic for the article (there were 3 other pics).

Dang I look flabby and old in this!!!!!


Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

That was great, Tim!! :clap: :clap: Way to go!

~Maryl

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Thanks, Maryl! hehehe We'll see in a few weeks if I can live up to all that hype! hahahaha

Man, am I jumping in too deep? Is it too early to do a live demo after only four portraits??? I don't know. I'll be aight. In a small town like mine, they'll probably all be duly impressed. hehehehhe

Well, Maryl, what are you working on? Have you ever done any fantasy paintings? You could do some great fairies with the dragonfly wings I'd bet. Someday I'd like to try doing some of that and some series stuff. A whole set of them revolving around some idea.

More to come!!!!


Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

Well, Tim, I just posted a new pic of a child-angel---check it out if you haven't already. (See, "It's all right Kitty") Fantasy? Well, these angels are probably the closest thing to that, and I'm on a roll with them! I have more drawn up to paint, and more in my mind to create! I just love doing them! But, believe it or not, I'm still trying to finish up the eagle t-shirts for the school---I have 3 left to do (out of 8), so I'm getting there! Maybe tomorrow I'll get them done.....

Right now I am bottle feeding a tiny white kitten that mysteriously showed up in our yard this past Thursday. :cat: It didn't get there by itself because its eyes were still closed when we found it. We think the neighbor's dog brought it from who-knows-where! Anyway, it's consuming my time----although I love it dearly! As tiny as it is, it PURRS almost constantly! So, I will nurse it till it's old enough to give to a good home, since my hubby won't let me keep another cat! :crying:

As for you "jumping in too deep", doing a live demo, I say, "Go for it!" You'll be fine! Your work is great and people will love it---airbrushing is so fascinating to people who have never seen it done! (And for people who have, too!) :clap:

~Maryl

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Late.... saw the angel-child.... looked very nice!


I'll post back after the demo and I hope I will have no horror story to recount.

Thanks for the compliment!!!!!

Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

I got my new Canon photo printer in today AND a new portrait commission. :clap: yeah for me! heheheheh

I charged more than my last one but less than my price list said. It'll pay for my new printer and fill my gas tank. heheh

Well, now I have something to keep me busy for a few weeks. I hope he and his wife like it. He told me his wife wasn't really sold on the idea but she has not seen them in person like he has. Makes a big difference. She did see the newspaper article but those pics were an inch wide.

She'll probably like it when she sees it in person. I'm cropping it horizontally to get the faces bigger which, to me, is what a portrait is all about (unless it's a full body thing anyway).

In fact, here is the original and cropped version. Do you think the cropped one is better? Well, I won't post progress pics but will post the end result.

I also obtained a model release from him so posting here is okay.


Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

That's great Tim! Let me know how you like the printer. I still haven't ordered mine.

As for the portrait----just take a few wrinkles out of her face, and she'll be sure to love it! haha. Will you scan it in black and white before you do it? I have done lots of etched (or engraved) portraits of people on monuments, as I have worked for a monument co. for many years, doing their artwork. When I do an etched portrait, it is always on black (or very dark) granite and we first make a copy of the colored portrait in black and white first, to go by. I haven't done any for quite a while, but must do several this week. It's always a little nerve wracking---especially when I haven't done it for a while. There is no room for mistakes when you are engraving. And you are working in reverse of sketching, working in the light areas instead of the dark, so you have to think in reverse. I have to etch a portrait of an elderly bride & groom, and another portrait. Made me think of your couple you are going to paint. I'd say the cropped pic is better, but do what they want. When I etch them, we always crop them across the upper chest----except for this bride & groom---they want the gown, etc. on it. Best of luck on this double portrait! I know you'll do great! :)

~Maryl

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Maryl,

I'll bet carving stone is tough. I'd be too nervous about mistakes.


I scanned the pic in color but have since converted to gray-scale and modified it to

a) darken her light skin a tad
b) lighten his jacket a LOT so the creases and pinstripes actually show
c) increase the contrast of the faces
d) lighten the background a tad

So, this way I can have the ref pic pretty much right so when I copy it while painting I won't have to remember to go lighter/darker... just... copy! hehehe

He said he wanted it as realistic as possible. So, I'll be putting wrinkles in but probably as you said I'll try to be "kind" to them.

Her sweater is going to be a bear to render.

Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

Tim, her sweater looks plain blue, but I'm sure you can see more than we can! Is it fuzzy?

Well, I did the engraving today of the "older" bride and groom. It was around 14" top to btm., and took me 4 1/2 hrs. to complete. This was a "full length" portrait which showed the full length of her gown. Their heads were probably only about 1 1/2" high, so I couldn't get too detailed. But on the photo of them, neither one of them had a jaw line----it went straight from the face to the neck. She evidently wanted that changed because it was emphasized on the preliminary sketch, showing a definite jaw line (which they added because I didn't draw it that way!), so I had to put that in, even though it didn't show in the photo. They always like to look younger than they really are---especially the women! I'm pretty sure this woman's husband passed away, so she was calling the shots here. I am soooooo glad I'm done with that one! I have another one to do yet, possibly tomorrow.

Tim, I'm not actually "carving stone" when I do the etchings/engravings. I just use an electric engraver that vibrates and puts tiny dots into the granite, making it white. I do a sketch, then they run the sketch through their copier onto tracing paper, then I go over the basic lines with the engraver, over top of the tracing paper and onto the granite. Then I remove the paper and fill in all the details with the engraver.

But I do "carve stone", so to speak, when I do their shape carvings for them. They are usually of flowers, mainly roses, and you sand blast free hand, one petal at a time, working from the outside petal to the center. Very tedious work. I'd rather be airbrushing, anyday! ;)

Anyway, I'm rambling. Keep us posted on this double portrait! You'll do great! :clap:

~Maryl

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Maryl,

I'd love to see you do that stuff! Sounds cool even if tedious.


Yes, the sweater has patterns and here is a detail that you can see. I want to tackle it in a way that looks realistic and I'll have to think on how to best do it w/o taking a year.



Tim

[Maryl Lehman]

Good grief!!! That will take forever to do! Maybe you can find some fabric-type overlay that would look close to it, that you could just spray overtop. I've done that quite a bit. My "Ice Cream Boy" on my website was done that way (his shirt). I'm not sure if you can tell from the pic or not though. I'd have to look at it again to see. Sure would be easier if you could just do that!

~Maryl

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

One thing I will do is trace the flow of the design and the big squares and then use some way (overlay, mask) to get the texture looking organic.

I will try it out on a spare piece first. Anyway, it will be awesome if I can pull it off!



Tim

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Back to the question of how I like the i960....


I installed it fine except the guards on the cartridges were almost impossible to remove even with a pair of plyers. I thought they twisted off easily (pic showed using thumb) and boy, was i shocked. I guess if you are a weight lifter you could twist it off with your hand. Hurt my finger trying and had to get plyers and still it was difficult.

Printed two tests on 4" x 6" at the "fine" setting using first 72 dpi and then 150 dpi. The sharpness and resolution is amazing but the colors were duller and not as deep as my monitor but I'm not sure if my monitor is correctly calibrated. Also, at the perimeter of light colors that are adjacent to darks there seemed to be some distortion which was barely visible but visible still to me. Yes, the result using the Canon paper was almost exactly like a photo except for those artifacts that showed near contrasting edges. I used jpgs but they did not have any distortion on the monitor but maybe a different format would work better. Too soon to tell. So busy with my regular job I haven't had a chance to try.


All in all, I'm happy with it.



Tim

[eyeburp]

Congrats on the business.

I have an older Epson printer and a newer HP. The HP is just more convenient because I can plug in my memory card and print without starting up the computer. I'd gives some basic adjustment options before printing. The ink and paper are kinda pricey though. My brother-in-law gets his digital photos printed online I think for 3 cents a print. I'm scared to do the math and see how much I'm paying per print. I may end up using his people instead.

re: 4-color vs. 6 and 8 color (from way back)
4-color has limitations and adding other colors helps reproduce photographs more accurately. Photos are RGB and 4-color printers can't match the color range - not even high-end 4-color printers. Additional colors are commonly added to enhance images in reproduction.

[Maryl Lehman]

Thanks for the info, Tim and Eyeburp! I will be sure to tell my son the info. before we get a new printer!

~Maryl

[eyeburp]

Oops. That should read 23 cents per print and not 3.

[ProfessorGreibowitz]

Been in calibration hell trying to understand why my prints don't look as dark and rich as the monitor images. I have gotten the prints much closer now. Also, I had my monitor stretched so it wasn't accurately showing the aspect (faces appeared longer etc.) and my print didn't match and I was stressing o9ver the discrepancy! Finally took a ruler and measured the print versus what PS told me it was and... dang it, IT MATCHED! So, now my prints are getting closer in contrast, darkness but they have a purple hue to them (slight). Not sure why since I'm printing them grayscale and they ARE grayscale. Weird.


ALSO, matte photo paper stunk as a support for a photo. Now I have 19 sheets of this mess I can't use unless maybe for some special sign or resume or who knows.

I accidentally put the cardboard support from the bag into my printer thinking THAT was the matte paper and boy, did the resulting "photo" look bad. All smeared. Hope it didn't mess up the print head.

The glossy paper is CRUCIAL in getting a good photo look and the Canon paper (Pro version) is great. So, I'll need to buy some more of that and some cheaper kind to try and correct this purple business.


Why is life so stupid? (or.... is it me? heheheheh)



Tim