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Newberry
04-11-2004, 11:22 AM
Hello all,

I have been doing variations on the theme of this glass jar, this one is in oil, 12 x 18", and I have started with a grisel underpainting, lamp black with a little cereulean blue, with a medium of lots of turpentine, touch of walnut oil, and some dammar varnish. These proportions will change to more oil and varnish as I get near the end.

The real glass vase is terrible skewed so if I paint the shape as I see it, it will look off. To keep it symetrical I just blast plum lines, and horizontals with vine charcoal right over my painting.

For this underpainting I am making corrections with small lines, like drawing, with a very liquid paint wash...One thing I like about working out the details this way is that I can pretty much keep working for days. With big washes I have to let them dry before going over them again, the little marks always leave some fresh canvas to work. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers,

Michael

artmom
04-11-2004, 12:43 PM
Thanks for sharing this. I'm studying underpainting frantically right now! LOL

Very well done. :)

Lyn

Newberry
04-15-2004, 07:54 PM
Thats for you enthusiasm Lyn.

I don't mind making corrections or freely marking up the canvas, those black vertical and horizontal lines are vine charcoal--to keep the glass symmetrical. I think this piece is going to be very detailed and realistic. Right now I am still working the atmospher of light.

Michael

chandlerjr
04-17-2004, 01:46 AM
Michael,
Your talent simply amazes me. :) Anyone who can paint translucent glass gets an A+ in my book. Any forum members who have not visited Michael's web site, should do so!

Classical Vince
04-18-2004, 03:46 AM
Hi Michael, coming along great! One thing I enjoy most about the drawing process is atmosphere. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Newberry
04-22-2004, 11:06 AM
Thanks Vince.

Today I will work some more on this. I will try to make the jar 'pop' by trying it make it more 3d and I don't want the background stuff it get too slick--I will concentrate there on the light, mid-tones and shadows more then on the detail of things.

Newberry
04-23-2004, 09:21 AM

Classical Vince
04-24-2004, 08:04 AM
aaah, I love glass :) The plum lines with the vine charcoal is a great tip; I'll have to keep it in mind. I once took a dig-pic of a drawing and did the plum lines in PS and spotted my mistakes. One thing about drafting symmetrical objects is how very sensitive the curves and ellipses are on an object like this; nicely in perspective.

Newberry
04-24-2004, 06:59 PM
Yes, Vince, the ellipses become really important.

These last few days of working on this piece has gotten me thinking a lot about the phallic and vaginal symbols in it. Perhaps that is why I was so attracted to the set up in the first place. The beaks of the toucans’ were obvious but now there are all these leaves sprouting upwards on 45-degree angels and of course the jar’s ellipses and it is filled with water, always a symbol of life and femininity for me.

There are a couple of choices I am making from that kind of thinking. One is that I could opt to make really dark shadows on the jar but I decided, so far, to make the shadows lighter because I can see that option in real life but also because the jar is feminine and a woman’s skin has a kind of glow, an aurora. Another is that I can contrast the table with the glass, use rich masculine darks. The third thing is that the water keeps steaming up the glass. In another still life of the glass jar I kept letting it cool off before I painted the glass’ details. Now I think I will let it all heat up and see what happens.

Michael

Newberry
04-29-2004, 01:25 PM
Hey, are you all quiet about my last post because you think I am nuts. Maybe touched by a little too much sun here in Florida!

The grissel underpainting is geling. I still want this piece to be very realistic, even more so in the underpainting stage. In my head I know how I want the colors to look--I also want it to have some of the texture of the old master paintings on wood panel but I do want the colors to be very contemporary. Part of the background is a thick silk purple shirt, and the toucan table is rich green and scarlet.

I hope that when the underpainting is complete--all the tones how I want that it will make my job of getting the right, brilliant color easier.

Cheers,

Michael

Classical Vince
04-30-2004, 11:16 PM
Hey, are you all quiet about my last post because you think I am nuts. Maybe touched by a little too much sun here in Florida!

LOL! The air is a little uptight for a Classical group...hmm...there was a poll awhile back about an Erotic Art Forum...but I dont think this work would be hardcore enough. ;) I like the subtle eroticism of your piece. Its coming along great.

I enjoy reading about the colors that are inspiring you. Care to post your palette when it comes time? Thanks. -cv

Newberry
04-30-2004, 11:50 PM
Hi Vince,

Humor appreciated. It is going fast now, I think the underpainting will be ready soon, tomorrow or the next day. I will let it dry for a week or so and then dive into the color--I want this painting to be almost like enamel; very rich and pure colors.

Michael

Classical Vince
05-01-2004, 12:24 AM
very rich and pure colors.

Michael

Care to discuss this a little? Personally, since I have started doing color charts; I have a bit of an aversion to rich color. I see hue saturation levels to be an important part of realism and timeless work. You have those qualities about your work but let me ramble on a bit...lol...if you dont mind ;)

I highly doubt you'll be using "tube" colors in your work but if you care to elaborate through your color mixing process I would appreciate reading about your problem solving.

I would like to discuss color with you since you are inclined to achieve true to life realism and it happens to overlap with my current oil studies...as richly-green as they may be ;)

Newberry
05-01-2004, 07:06 AM
Care to discuss this a little? Personally, since I have started doing color charts; I have a bit of an aversion to rich color. I see hue saturation levels to be an important part of realism and timeless work. You have those qualities about your work but let me ramble on a bit...lol...if you dont mind ;)

I would like to discuss color with you since you are inclined to achieve true to life realism and it happens to overlap with my current oil studies...as richly-green as they may be ;)

Thanks for the compliment. Color...you have an aversion to it?!

Color charts can be useful study but boring as hell.

Sure I will talk about color when I go there in this piece. I am a big fan of squinting...squint looking at reality and squint looking at the painting and correct the color difference. But I am also into color theory...

bellasmiiles
05-02-2004, 02:19 AM
Here I am on a Saturday night getting all excited about color theory LOL

Classical Vince
05-03-2004, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the compliment. Color...you have an aversion to it?!

No way! lol, I just have an aversion to rich tube colors.


Color charts can be useful study but boring as hell.

:rolleyes: Oh gawd yes. :p


Sure I will talk about color when I go there in this piece. I am a big fan of squinting...squint looking at reality and squint looking at the painting and correct the color difference. But I am also into color theory...

Great! Looking forward to reading about your process. Thanks again for the wips around the forum.

Bellasmiles - :D

SweetBabyJ
05-05-2004, 10:08 AM
Wait, wait, wait- lemme catch up here- obviously this is my kind of thread: So far we have curves, heat and steam, subtle eroticism and colour theory (that's going to be like, "protection", right? The boring but necessary part). Who says we NEED an eroticism forum?!?

I've been watching this piece since you first posted, Michael, it's fascinating, as always. But Vince won't share the popcorn.

bellasmiiles
05-05-2004, 10:13 AM
Sweet..it has been so quiet..do you think Michael is already casting for the movie version ? lol

SweetBabyJ
05-05-2004, 10:26 AM
Sweet..it has been so quiet..do you think Michael is already casting for the movie version ? lol


Possible- wonder if he'll use a body-double for the toucan?

bellasmiiles
05-05-2004, 10:31 AM
I hear Fruit Loop Toucan is looking for some work

SweetBabyJ
05-05-2004, 10:53 AM
It's all about the beak, isn't it? I keep telling people, it's "sighs matter", not the homonym.


we're gonna get in trouble for this, aren't we? I clearly recall Michael saying he appreciated humour- let's hope his sense of humour is as good as his artwork...

bellasmiiles
05-05-2004, 10:57 AM
I think so...its why I like the thread....good art and humor...one stop art lol

Classical Vince
05-07-2004, 10:11 PM
But Vince won't share the popcorn.

Bout time you showed up! Body-double, "sighs count", you're right - who needs an erotic forum with you in the thread! :D Bella's been excited since her first post :p

SweetBabyJ
05-08-2004, 12:03 AM
I see Bella is an excitable type- we'll have to see how steamy Michael makes this.....

bellasmiiles
05-08-2004, 12:20 AM
That's right, It's not easy living on the edge

SweetBabyJ
05-08-2004, 01:08 AM
That sounds suspiciously like a double entendre....

Newberry
05-15-2004, 10:38 AM
My, my, my...just saw the recent posts now. And, yes, I am laughing.

I have been busy with six paintings and I guest taught a class in Chattanooga at Daud Akhriev and Melissa Hefferlin's marvelous studio. www.daudakhriev.com

Just now I feel ready to let the painting dry and then begin on color! To add to all the steaming elements part of my personal experience with color is that I feel it as if it is pure emotion.

Thanks for the comments...and the humor.

Michael

bellasmiiles
05-15-2004, 11:33 AM
hiya Michael...thats great you are back before the spitballs started flying lol...
your process is an exellent learning tool..Cheryl :p

SweetBabyJ
05-15-2004, 12:16 PM
Such a dramatically lit griselle; easy to see the stage is set for a sensuous encounter. Makes me wonder what is to be seen just outside the frame.

As for humour, my Mother taught me to never laugh AND point at the same time- advice which has stood me in good stead many years. ;)

Newberry
05-28-2004, 03:56 PM
Ok, is it time to unwrap the 'protection'?

Well, I am ready.

Ok.

I will be taking some artistic license with the color. For examble the very dark areas in the backgroun in real life look like dark neutral charcoal black. I am making them intense cobalt blue and that is setting the tone for the the rest of the painting.

The background hence will be variations on the blue theme. As the top of the box goes back into space I want to make sure there is a lot of blue mixed in with the other colors to help make them recede. Picasso said that art was a lie, and I agree from the point of view that the canvas is not 3d we are translating real forms onto a flat surface.

Baby J apparently has not noticed that there is more than one beak in this painting....

The beak in back to the left of the jar is bright yellow, orange and red. I want to make it recede, it is also in dim light. In mixing blue with the beaks colors they become green, brown, and magentta but in the blue surrounding appear to look like there natural colors of yellow, orange and red. This is the advantage using blue instead of black in a painting; when you mix it in with other colors you then make new, clean and interesting color combos.

I want the middle and forground colors to be pretty much what I see. And I will want to punch up my light areas by adding the opposite of blue, organge, peach, and warm yellows mixed in.

comments welcomed.

cheers,

Michael

bellasmiiles
05-28-2004, 09:59 PM
Beautiful as usual Michael....Do you have any more beaks hiding in there for us ?

Newberry
06-24-2004, 07:10 PM
Yes Cheryl, I am sure there will be some reflected in the glass and they will be seen when the color goes on there.

Michael

dcorc
06-24-2004, 07:50 PM
Fascinating, as always, Michael, watching one of your masterful works, slowly, gradually, patiently developed.

Dave

ErinElvira
06-24-2004, 11:19 PM
Wow. Beautiful! I'm grateful to be able to see this process. It never occurred to me before that you could do grisaille in crosshatching as you did. What a great idea - seems like it builds a very solid visual structure and at the same time you have the flexibility and detail of drawing. This sounds better to me than my method so far - setting in the masses of the composition with brushstrokes & wiping with a rag. And the colour appearng is like the sun coming up!!!

Erin

Newberry
06-27-2004, 05:22 PM
Hi Erin,

I love the process you mention of blocking out and wiping up, but for quick paintings. When I want to get the details I like this drawing tech. I looked on your website, and I enjoyed your drawings of mountains and industrial objects...I could easily see how you would enjoy this other painting technique of crosshatching with your sensitivity to line.

Michael

Newberry
06-27-2004, 05:31 PM
Fascinating, as always, Michael, watching one of your masterful works, slowly, gradually, patiently developed.

Dave

Thanks for your comments Dave. A few others have commented on my patience...but the truth is I get so into the moment and the joy of seeing and painting that I don't push to completion but let the end come of its own. But to qualify that I like also to make works in less than an hour or two...just try to zap down one aspect and then be done with it.

BTW, I looked at your site and you have a balance of interests. I am just starting my DVD movie collection...and I antcipate that I will add a few of your preferred titles.

Cheers,

Michael

Newberry
08-02-2004, 10:58 PM
I have been working on about 8 projects, so not getting the time I need for the toucan painting but its moving forward...I am looking forward to painting the veins of the table's painted leaves...that background will be a bit ornate...and hopefully within a week I get to start on the glass--which I plan to blast with color!

Newberry
08-22-2004, 11:57 AM
Cross-posted in Still life
Yeah! Finally started color on the class itself...its a little hard to talk about color theory without being there in real time. One of the things I am very happy about in this painting, color theory wise, is the shift in the color of the light, especially on the table and background (the jar will get its due when I add a lot of orange to the white highlights.

I don't know if you can see this in the photos-but everyting in the background is loaded with blues. The black shadows and the black underbase of the lacquered table, are not black at all the back ground but cobalt. The beak in the upper left corner is also loaded with blue mixed with oranges.

In the forground the black become relatively a neutral black, the forground is a variation on mid tones and I am trying to keep the colors more or less what they are.

A contrast to both the forground and background is a pocket of light on the left side of the vase. There I mixed a lot of organge with the black to give a I kind of orange glow--there really is a intense glow of light there.

All the above is only about the black color...but I did the same with all the colors--mixing more blue, or keeping the color true, or adding organge into the green leaves, beaks, etc.

Hope you can see it!

Cheers,

Michael

Classical Vince
08-24-2004, 03:18 AM
Ok, is it time to unwrap the 'protection'?

Well, I am ready.

Ok.

Alright :cool: been waiting for this part, lol.


I will be taking some artistic license with the color. For examble the very dark areas in the backgroun in real life look like dark neutral charcoal black. I am making them intense cobalt blue and that is setting the tone for the the rest of the painting.

Curious why you made this choice. Is this warm or cool light? I understand artistic license so Im listening ;)

Picasso said that art was a lie, and I agree from the point of view that the canvas is not 3d we are translating real forms onto a flat surface. Holy sh*t I can agree with Picasso. lol. I think of every realist piece I do as an illusion.


Baby J apparently has not noticed that there is more than one beak in this painting....

Oh, if I know baby, shes noticed. :p

The beak in back to the left of the jar is bright yellow, orange and red. I want to make it recede, it is also in dim light. In mixing blue with the beaks colors they become green, brown, and magentta but in the blue surrounding appear to look like there natural colors of yellow, orange and red. This is the advantage using blue instead of black in a painting; when you mix it in with other colors you then make new, clean and interesting color combos.

Totally understand about the black. Ive taken advice early on its NOT the way to paint. Do you always use blue no matter the color temperature of the light source? Thanks for any tips :wave:

Newberry
08-25-2004, 01:07 AM
Alright :cool: been waiting for this part, lol.



Curious why you made this choice. Is this warm or cool light? I understand artistic license so Im listening ;)

Ok. The theory is that the light is warm, i.e. touch a light bulb and it burns your finger. The hottest color in the spectrum is scarlet. The opposite of scarlet would be cerulean blue, the coldest color. The background in the painting is the furthest away from the light. The further away from the heat of the light the cooler things get. Black is essentially on the warm side in color. Cobalt is warmer than cerrulean...a good choice for the black in distance. I could mix cerulean with black but that doesnt make a very nice looking color.

The light of the painting is a warm very light, super light scarlet, that will be my last touches of the highlights on the glass...so you don't see the warm yet.

Sorry, this all sounds very technical and mathmatical, but once I know I am looking for coolness I simply play with some bluish hues have lots of fun and mix and tweak until I get some colors that excite my eye and I think make interesting harmonies.

so:

1. the closer and more direct the thing is to the light source the hotter the highlight.

2. Shadows, what is not directly in the light is cool, hence more blue mixed in.

3. things in light but further back in space, away from the light source fade progressively cooler as they go away.

4. stuff in front but not direct in the light...neutral or pure, neither cool nor warm.

Simple, no?






Holy sh*t I can agree with Picasso. lol. I think of every realist piece I do as an illusion.

Its an illusion in one way but if you get the tones and hues moving through space in a truthful way than its a kinda of hightened reality.







Totally understand about the black. Ive taken advice early on its NOT the way to paint. Do you always use blue no matter the color temperature of the light source? Thanks for any tips :wave:

Sometimes you might have cold highlights, then you would like to have warm shadows...cold on cold and warm on warm...can be very dull. Lucian Freud tends to have cool hightlights and shadows makes for a hospital like effect though he is marvelous with all is middle tones and the nuances of color.

Newberry
08-25-2004, 01:50 AM
about the above...I am also double checking all the theory and details against what I really see. I may cheat a little bit but essentially I am painting the light and forms I see.

SweetBabyJ
08-25-2004, 03:35 AM
Like I'd miss a beak- oh ye of little faith. :D

I'm keenly interested in what you are saying, Michael, because I put a great deal of emphasis on warm/cool combinations- and when I step away from a piece I am working on, I've found I am not looking at values, so much as whether the hue is correct, and whether the temperature is playing properly. Apparently, I use expressionistic colour, but it is what I SEE- not necessarily with my eyes- but with my brain- and so, it has to match. I paint the painting, not the set-up, or the pic- but the painting- it is what I SEE, so, it has to be right.

Sometimes, though, I confess I'm prolly the only one who understands how my mind works... that's okay though, I keep myself company, anyway.

bellasmiiles
08-25-2004, 04:01 AM
Ok for a change I am speechless...Cheryl :wave:

Classical Vince
08-27-2004, 03:06 AM
Ok. The theory is that the light is warm, i.e. touch a light bulb and it burns your finger.

I'd link dcorc's post about "How many classical artists does it take to screw in a lightbulb" but I dont want to hijack your thread. ;)


The hottest color in the spectrum is scarlet. The opposite of scarlet would be cerulean blue, the coldest color. The background in the painting is the furthest away from the light. The further away from the heat of the light the cooler things get. Black is essentially on the warm side in color. Cobalt is warmer than cerrulean...a good choice for the black in distance. I could mix cerulean with black but that doesnt make a very nice looking color.

Makes sense, thanks. Im finding the contrast of color temperature within a piece is harmonized through relativity within the work, much like value.


The light of the painting is a warm very light, super light scarlet, that will be my last touches of the highlights on the glass...so you don't see the warm yet.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.


Sorry, this all sounds very technical and mathmatical, but once I know I am looking for coolness I simply play with some bluish hues have lots of fun and mix and tweak until I get some colors that excite my eye and I think make interesting harmonies.

Color used to be like a foriegn language to me a year ago but Im following ya here. As I mentioned, its the relativity within the work that provides harmony and it sounds like thats the song your looking to sing with this ;)


Sometimes you might have cold highlights, then you would like to have warm shadows...cold on cold and warm on warm...can be very dull. Lucian Freud tends to have cool hightlights and shadows makes for a hospital like effect though he is marvelous with all is middle tones and the nuances of color.

I know what you mean, its like having a static-edge...you have to have variety in a piece. Thanks for the reply.

E-J
08-27-2004, 07:28 AM
Great to find you're still working on this, Michael. I can't imagine how you keep concentration and focus going on six paintings simultaneously. Don't you ever feel you've lost momentum with a piece, and don't feel drawn to it as strongly as when you began?

I love to read your explanations of the process and get an insight on how you make colour theory work for you ... Enlightening stuff. Thank you! I find the idea of 'heightened reality' an exciting one ... I can't help but use the word 'exciting' whenever I'm commenting on your work ... now I learn it's the subliminal effect of all those erotic beaks and jars :D

Newberry
08-28-2004, 01:50 PM
Like I'd miss a beak- oh ye of little faith. :D

I'm keenly interested in what you are saying, Michael, because I put a great deal of emphasis on warm/cool combinations- and when I step away from a piece I am working on, I've found I am not looking at values, so much as whether the hue is correct, and whether the temperature is playing properly. Apparently, I use expressionistic colour, but it is what I SEE- not necessarily with my eyes- but with my brain- and so, it has to match. I paint the painting, not the set-up, or the pic- but the painting- it is what I SEE, so, it has to be right.

Sometimes, though, I confess I'm prolly the only one who understands how my mind works... that's okay though, I keep myself company, anyway.

Hi J, I am with you there, there is a part of me, that feels the color emotionally, pure and unalterated...though it is not literal, like using red paper, on a blazing hot day, for a landscape of granite rocks, they were hot to the touch...it felt "right" to give the drawing lots of "heat" even though everything I saw was cool gray.

Newberry
08-28-2004, 01:55 PM
Don't you ever feel you've lost momentum with a piece, and don't feel drawn to it as strongly as when you began? ...I can't help but use the word 'exciting' whenever I'm commenting on your work ... now I learn it's the subliminal effect of all those erotic beaks and jars :D

Thanks E-J, yes it is hard to keep the momentum going but when I am bored with a piece, and yes that happens too, I blast the **** out of something so that my "eye" is shocked! And when I recover from what seems like I totally distroyed the painting, then I am "back into" the work.

Michael

Newberry
08-30-2004, 06:49 PM
Continuing the work on the jar...I almost want all the color, lights, reflections of the glass to look insane, a chaos of thoughts, emotions, colors flying everywhere, and yet be beautifully contained by the sensous curves of the fragile glass.

Michael

SweetBabyJ
09-01-2004, 02:09 AM
*yum*