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CoolArtiste
02-22-2004, 04:51 PM
Anybody know if oil paint fumes will harm cockatiels or other parrot family birds? How about turpentine, kerosine, mineral spirits, spray fixative, or acrylic paint fumes? I'm thinking about getting a cockatiel.

cheekyerica
02-22-2004, 05:13 PM
Anybody know if oil paint fumes will harm cockatiels or other parrot family birds? How about turpentine, kerosine, mineral spirits, spray fixative, or acrylic paint fumes? I'm thinking about getting a cockatiel.

Well, I can't say for certain but I am sure that they wouldnt be too good for them. I figure if they are meant to be used in well ventilated spaces and there are still warnings for humans (who have huge lung capacity compared to poor little chirpers or miaow-ers) then you might want to make sure that you have some kind of good air filter or circulation going on.

I work with turpentine (with my oils) and I have 3 cats in a medium sized apartment. I make sure that when I am working (or in progress) that there is always a window (or screen door) open to allow fumes to disperse so that the kittens (or myself) don't get headaches and potentially worse issues.
I know birds need to be kept warm but other than that I can't say...? :confused:

Good luck!

erica

Dana Design
02-22-2004, 05:15 PM
YES! They will harm these birds! I was hell bent on getting an African gray parrot...even had her picked out....until....I did the research on the 'net and found that these birdies cannot be anywhere near fumes such as those you mentioned. I would have also had to toss out pans that I cook with as they are teflon coated. No teflon, either.

If you do a site search for cockatiels, you'll find a lot of information. If, however, you have a large house and can confine your stinky stuff to one room that is well ventilated, and, keep the bird out of there, you may get away with it.

http://www.cockatiels.org/articles/care/gencare.html

I still want a gray parrot. :crying:

MS_Triple
02-22-2004, 10:30 PM
I'm glad someone remembered the threat of Teflon. This is scarey knowing how prevalent and seemingly harmless these things can be. I don't have a bird and could not remember the material myself. Good call!

Any fumes can't be good for animals because of their hyper sensitivity. Even burning foods (mainly the oil) bother me. I get stuffed up. A dog must feel really bad.

Underdog
02-23-2004, 12:56 AM
It never occured to me that my two cockatiels might be especially sensitive to the odors/fumes related to my painting. I have been painting for maybe a couple months, now, in my 2-bedroom efficiency apartment. They spend most of their time in a cage in the living room, near a sliding glass door that leads to a balcony. Across the room and in an adjoining dining area(no separate doorway) is where I paint. I use mostly odorless thinner and Turpenoid, although I have been using some natural mineral spirits, lately, for brush cleanup. So far I have not noticed any adverse effect on the 'tiels, but I'll certainly keep an eye on them from now on. I may have to come up with a new situation in order to protect them.

I also noticed that that article previously mentioned said that Teflon will give off a poisonous gas if overheated. Any other information on that? I wasn't really aware of that danger.

artbabe21
02-23-2004, 02:53 AM
Good information & question......many might not think about this...but ventilation is such a key for humans so it stands to reason a small animal would have even MORE difficulty with turps...just because they took the odor out doesn't mean it isn't harming you!

lame_pseudonym
02-24-2004, 01:41 AM
It would make sense that birds are a lot more sensitive to harmful fumes. Remember, they used to use canaries in mines to warn people when the air was getting bad... :(

Eugene Veszely
02-24-2004, 10:28 AM
I would have also had to toss out pans that I cook with as they are teflon coated. No teflon, either.

I still want a gray parrot. :crying:

I have heard bad things about TEFLON....

Ant Carlos
02-24-2004, 08:59 PM
Animals want to be close to you. They want to watch you and they feel safe when you are at their sight. No fume would cause them more harm than be left alone in another room (assuming you spend a lot of time painting). I don't think cockatiels are that weak. If you survive, they will survive. Besides, what is life, really? When does it start? Where does it end? Isn't living to be happy and together with your beloved? Let it last... untill...

:)

Ant

Doug Nykoe
02-24-2004, 09:33 PM
My Cockatiel has helped me paint for years. He sits on my shoulder and sleeps or he tries to catch the end of my brush handle till I pet him. Don’t worry so much. I also cook with Teflon and his second cage is near the kitchen… the thing you have to be worried about a bit is if you burn your food then Teflon can be released into the air otherwise its not a problem.

Now how bout we talk about the dangers of driving a car…god lets not get into crossing the street that’s real scary….enjoy life, its to damn short.

Duende
02-24-2004, 11:24 PM
I have no information on the effects of teflon on birds etc., I just wanted to say to Dana, please do a lot of research before you buy an African Grey. They are not the easiest of birds to handle. They are extremely destructive and have to be provided with "toys" that they can destroy or else they will turn to your paint brushes and WIP's :) Paddy

Dana Design
02-25-2004, 03:20 AM
I have no information on the effects of teflon on birds etc., I just wanted to say to Dana, please do a lot of research before you buy an African Grey. They are not the easiest of birds to handle. They are extremely destructive and have to be provided with "toys" that they can destroy or else they will turn to your paint brushes and WIP's :) Paddy

Thanks, Duende! I did tons of research on them and that is why I decided NOT to buy her. It was an extremely difficult decision for me but I had to first think of the bird and what would be in her best interests. I've seen what they can do to themselves if they're not 100% happy and that worried me terribly. I even talked to an avian vet and although she said I could probably handle it, I decided against it. Instead, I visit Harley, my African Gray "friend" at the local feed store and get my jollies by talking to her and petting her. Gee, do you think I need a hobby?

To Doug Nykoe: Yep, crossing the street is dangerous and that's why I look both ways like a good girl. Ergo, as I do not want to put myself in danger, I certainly would not want to put a bird, any kind of a bird, in danger while I'm cooking dinner or mixing turps fumes into the air. Life is short, I'll concede, but I don't have to make it SHORTER for myself or a little birdie. Long live your little cockatiel and I hope it wears a little mask near your paints! :)

CoolArtiste
02-25-2004, 04:09 AM
This page has a pretty good article on household dangers to pet birds:
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-512.html
It didn't mention oil paint, which is why I asked. The article mainly said if you had a "tightly sealed" house and you used insecticide or overheated teflon, it'd kill birds. My house is never "tightly sealed" when I oil paint, and I don't use insecticide or overheat teflon. I like what Doug said. I wanted to hear from someone who actually had a Cockatiel around regularly when they oil painted. I think maybe I'll go ahead and buy a Cockatiel. I had Budgerigars before. None of them ever died from illness or poisoning. One died from drowning in a glass of water and another died because its mother killed it.

Eisenhower
02-26-2004, 01:58 AM
This page has a pretty good article on household dangers to pet birds:
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-512.html
It didn't mention oil paint, which is why I asked. The article mainly said if you had a "tightly sealed" house and you used insecticide or overheated teflon, it'd kill birds. My house is never "tightly sealed" when I oil paint, and I don't use insecticide or overheat teflon. I like what Doug said. I wanted to hear from someone who actually had a Cockatiel around regularly when they oil painted. I think maybe I'll go ahead and buy a Cockatiel. I had Budgerigars before. None of them ever died from illness or poisoning. One died from drowning in a glass of water and another died because its mother killed it.

Well, I paint with my dog in the same room, but I open at least 2 windows. It could be my ignorance but turps evaporate pretty quickly and then all I smell is linseed oil which is not toxic. As long as the cap is on, I don't smell turps. So just don't leave the top off when your not dipping into it.

Birds are created for air, their bone structure is very hollow and light and thier lungs very delicate. They are not hardy at all. If I got a birdie, I'd keep the windows open while painting and put her cage near the window.

This is the first i've heard of teflon being toxic at high heat. I tossed all mine because of the aluminum in the teflon creating alzheimers. Now I have my copper pots and LOVE them, but then I read a book on cancer lately and it said to get rid of copper because cancer patients have an abundance of copper in their body. Oh well. Stainless Steel inside them can't hurt - yet... until they come up with something else. Maybe I should become a raw foodist...

My first roomate had a cockateil and it was so nervous it plucked it's own feathers out... It was completely bald. They are sensitive creatures so if turps effect the nervous system, hopefully your birdie will not pluck out its feathers....

Kelly

Dana Design
02-26-2004, 12:23 PM
Ah, one of the advantages of living in a warm clime....open windows in the winter. Here in the frozen north, that's one luxury I can't afford.

I didn't know there was aluminun in teflon!! So, I think I'll open the windows for just a bit and toss the teflon. I swear, we're going to have to go back to the cave and start cooking over an open fire in order to avoid the bio-hazards that we live with.

Now I'm wondering if odorless mineral spirits have the same toxicity of turpentine.

dcorc
02-26-2004, 01:37 PM
I didn't know there was aluminun in teflon!!

There isn't! Teflon is Polytetrafluoroethylene.

The metal part of the pan, however, might have been aluminium. It's certainly the case that aluminium exposure has been associated with Alzheimers, and aluminium cookware is not recommended.

Mineral spirits is not non-toxic, but is less toxic than turpentine.

Dave

Dana Design
02-26-2004, 01:46 PM
There isn't! Teflon is Polytetrafluoroethylene.

Mineral spirits is not non-toxic, but is less toxic than turpentine.

Dave

To what degree?

Thanks, Dave!

Dana

dcorc
02-26-2004, 02:21 PM
All "organic" (that is, carbon-based) low molecular weight solvents are to some extent neurotoxic. Mineral spirits (white spirit) is a mix of different chemicals from petroleum fractionation - "Odourless" preparations remove some of the aromatic molecules (that includes the smellier ones, but the term "aromatic" as used by chemists means that the molecules have circular rather than linear structures - in general these also tend to be more toxic). Turps is also toxic by skin absorption.

For all of them, minimise your exposure by keeping tops on containers as much as possible, ensure some ventilation by maintaining some airflow, and avoid getting the liquid on your skin. (that doesn't necessarily mean wear gloves, just don't splosh it about!)

Dave

artbabe21
02-26-2004, 02:41 PM
Turpentine is a known sentizer while Gamsol or mineral spirits is not...even though I use safe studio practices I noticed a difference when I switched from turpentine as I was developing sensitivites...:)

Dana Design
02-26-2004, 05:04 PM
Thanks, Dave. That info really helps. I'm looking forward to Spring when I can begin to open my windows again.

Cathleen, I've never used turpentine...just couldn't stand the smell.

artbabe21
02-26-2004, 08:04 PM
Cathleen, I've never used turpentine...just couldn't stand the smell.

what do you use? odorless turps or odorless mineral spirits? :)

Dana Design
02-26-2004, 08:08 PM
what do you use? odorless turps or odorless mineral spirits? :)

OMS. And although I know it's toxic, I'm at a loss as to what else to use that would be safer. I keep the lid on it while painting but not screwed on. And, as I've said before, I use a glove on my left hand to wipe the paint and clean my brushes.

artbabe21
02-26-2004, 08:18 PM
I'm at a loss as to what else to use that would be safer.

Dana....I use the same precautions + good ventilation even in winter...:)

I tried to use veggie oil but that didn't really get all the paint out of large brushes, same with baby oil & walnut oil. Smaller brushes do well though...and washing w/a good bar soap after the oil...:)

Eisenhower
02-27-2004, 05:54 AM
There isn't! Teflon is Polytetrafluoroethylene.

The metal part of the pan, however, might have been aluminium. It's certainly the case that aluminium exposure has been associated with Alzheimers, and aluminium cookware is not recommended.

Mineral spirits is not non-toxic, but is less toxic than turpentine.

Dave

Dave,

Most all teflon pans are made with a pan that is aluminum and most teflon
eventually cooks off. Heat coming thru aluminum into teflon, I don't trust it so to me it makes no difference.

So what is Polytetrafluoroethylene? Can you break it down for us in metals?

Kelly

dcorc
02-27-2004, 06:20 AM
Dave,

Most all teflon pans are made with a pan that is aluminum


Not nowadays - certainly in the UK - anyway, there's an easy test - aluminium is light and soft, easily bent and dented - if the pan is thick walled but you can fairly easily bend the sides of the pan, it's probably aluminium, and you'd be well advised to discard it.

and most teflon eventually cooks off.

This is true.

Heat coming thru aluminum into teflon, I don't trust it

As long as the teflon coating's intact, it's protecting you from the aluminium. I'd agree with you to throw away any aluminium pans - but its the aluminium you need to be distrustful of, not the teflon (providing its not overheated beyond 300 degrees centigrade!)

So what is Polytetrafluoroethylene? Can you break it down for us in metals?

Polytetrafluoroethylene IS the proper chemical name for Teflon - it's a polymer of the form (CF2)n where n is an indefinite number, C is carbon, and F is fluorine (both non-metals) - its made by cross-linking CF2=CF2 units (tetrafluoroethylene).

Dave

Dana Design
02-27-2004, 04:17 PM
Dave, you're amazing! Thanks again for the info!

(i still want a bird :crying: )

Dana Design
02-27-2004, 04:25 PM
Dana....I use the same precautions + good ventilation even in winter...:)

I tried to use veggie oil but that didn't really get all the paint out of large brushes, same with baby oil & walnut oil. Smaller brushes do well though...and washing w/a good bar soap after the oil...:)

Cath, I rarely, if ever, use soap and water on my brushes anymore. I felt that it was drying them out and splaying the hairs. Now, after I clean them in OMS, I dip them into veggie oil and wipe them. I seen my brushes, the kolinskys and the fake mongoose in much better shape now.

It was trial and error for me and seeing the sables, especially, getting ruined, changed my routine.

YMMV