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guillot
01-31-2004, 07:32 PM
Well, here it is folks - and thanks Matt for everything that you do ;)

Master Of the Month #2 - February

This month, we tackle the genius of Caravaggio, and his Baccus.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2004/5957-15549-Bacchus.jpg



"Baccus" Oil on canvas 1596, 95x85cm (38x34")

Originally named Michelangelo Merisi, Caravaggio was born September 28, 1573, in the Lombardy hill town of Caravaggio, from which his professional name is derived. He may have spent four years as apprentice to Simone Peterzano in Milan before going to Rome in 1593, where he entered the employ of the Mannerist painter Giuseppe Cesari, also known as the Cavaliere d'Arpino, for whom he executed fruit and flower pieces (now lost). Among his best-known early works are genre paintings (scenes from everyday life) with young men. Caravaggio's personal life was turbulent. He was often arrested and imprisoned. He fled Rome for Naples in 1606 when charged with murder.
Little is known for a fact on his working technique, as he left us not even a single drawing or study. Some sexperts believe Caravaggio used brown underpaintings (Probably Bitumen, but we could use Burnt Umber) and then adding glazes and opaque colors. A suggested palette would be various earths, vermillion, lead white and Ivory black.

Here's how the american painter Angel painted a Caravaggio:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2004/15549-mjas_206_s.jpg




Artist's in the same categoty as Caravaggio: A. Van Dyck , J. Jordaens , D. Velázquez.

//Matt

Yay :) :clap:

Matt Sammekull
01-31-2004, 08:22 PM
A high resolution image is found here (http://user.tninet.se/~zju432s/MOM%20february.htm)

//matt

DLGardner
02-01-2004, 03:03 AM
So would this be a good place to ask for a couple of quick tips about the glazing practice? I tried it once and had awful results. I have seen finished pieces and am quite impressed but I have never really had any success doing it. Could you just give us a couple of suggestions...what to use for a glaze...etc? Please?

Dianne

Matt Sammekull
02-01-2004, 07:08 AM
Hi Dianne.

If you plan on finishing the study within this month, I suggest you go out and but a small bottle of Liquin from W&N. That's what I'm going to use anyway. I'll start of with a toned panel (probably in a brown/red hue) and then do the sketching with diluted (turps) burnt umber.
This should all be dry in a day or two, and from there on I'll use Liquin which usually dries up in 24 hours.

See you later!

//matt

Eugene Veszely
02-01-2004, 10:06 AM
This looks harder than the Zorn one :)

guillot
02-01-2004, 11:03 AM
This looks harder than the Zorn one :)

:D Yes maybe, I dunno......... that Zorn was pretty difficult for me, but it was loads of fun and challenges, and I'm sure this one will be too :) LOL

Dianne - I'm going to use Gamblins Galkyd for a glazing medium - it dries within 24 hours as well (thin layers). I diulte mine, Galkyd and OMS 60/40 (you should dilute no more than 50% OMS or turps (I use English Distilled in my painting if I ever use turps)). And, there is Liquin out there as well - but this is what I'm going to use.

Woohoo! Has anyone prepared anything yet?

Tina

Stephen Brealey
02-01-2004, 12:44 PM
My day's daubings, to get things rolling. I'm looking forward to this.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2004/5989-bacchus1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2004/5989-bacchus2.jpg

guillot
02-01-2004, 01:53 PM
Hi Stephen, welcome to this months Master activity. I like the direction you are taking with yours :) Will be looking forward to your progress.

I was just doing a bit of studying up on old Carravagio, and I found a wealth of info in my Book "How to Paint Like the Old Masters" by Joseph Sheppard. Lots of good info in there on his probable processes. Maybe I could share a little?

1. Apparently - there are no traces of Carravagios drawings which would lead one to assume that he painted directly - a debatable point among many artists. Shadow areas of his paintings reveal an underlying ground color in the shadow areas.

2. There is a belief that his medium may have been similar to Titian's per this author and he uses:
(20 parts linseed oil
litharge (or powdered white lead pigment or white lead paste) 1 part
turpentine - 20 parts
mastic tears - 7 parts)

For the Carravagio demonstration he uses a combination of this and beeswax medium.

3. His probable working sequence for his first sitting may have been rendered with "a warm, thin color, possibly burnt umber, which he handled like watercolor, leaving the color of the ground untouched for the lighter areas and painting the shadows with transparent color diluted with medium ........ leaving the underlying tone of the canvas to show through the shadows". The first sitting's tones appear well blended.

4. His second sitting probable sequence: Working flesh tones with shades of opaque grays and then "modeled and blended into the shadow edges". No build up of lights - transclucent shadows and "inner forms would be well blended".

5. In the third sitting - Carravaggio would paint "velaturas of flesh tints over the gray underpainting ... and would work subtle grays and pinks into the shadow areas for reflected lights".

6. The fourth sitting would be for details, "more subtle glazes and tints". The final sitting would "be for large overall dark glazes in which he could manipulate the shadows and control the lights".

The author of this book, in his Carravagio demonstration uses the following palette sequence:

"First sitting - burnt umber

Second sitting - white lead (flake white), burnt umber, ivory black.

Third and fourth sittings - white lead, yellow ochre light, French vermillion light, alizaron Chrimson, burnt sienna, burnt umber, ivory black.

Fifth sitting: ivory black.

Brush numbers 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 11 round bristles, number 6 round sables, and flat bristle blenders."

So, for whatever that is worth to anyone, I do not know. But I'm interested in this sequence...... and this provided some insight on his probable processes.

Thanks,
Tina

TeAnne
02-01-2004, 03:49 PM
Holy Hell!!!!!!
I hope there will be lots of help available, if I do this........ :( :( :(

Rosic
02-01-2004, 04:07 PM
I'm excited about the February MOM project but considering my expertise in oils :D I felt I was more apt to do this one if I made it a simpler crop for me to work with. Working bigger this month... 16x20 gessoed masonite. Took Matt's advice and gessoed & sanded enough to give a very smooth surface to work on. I sketched my crop comp with charcoal, fixed it, then gave it a burnt umber/Liquin wash removing the highlighted areas with a dry brush. Maybe I'll get to work more on it Wednesday. I look forward to trying the glazes but don't have a clue so I'll wait for some direction.
Rosic

Tina & Matt... thanks for the helpful background on Caravaggio.

Stephen... looking good!

guillot
02-01-2004, 04:12 PM
Excellent Rosic!! Nice crop - I'm still debating .... LOL

TeAnne - The information I put up there is simply just that "info" - doesn't mean you have to do all that - I would like to follow his principles and learn something. Or is it the painting that has you in a tizzy? :) Don't worry - we'll all help each other along the way.

Tina

Rosic
02-01-2004, 04:16 PM
:) Don't worry - we'll all help each other along the way.
Tina
I can vouch for that... you guys threw me a rope last month when I was drowning... thanks BTW!

Matt Sammekull
02-01-2004, 04:50 PM
So the stone is rolling and picking up some speed already!

Stephen Brealey - Great start! And you did all this during the first sitting? Well done. And thank you SO MUCH for using the image uploader! ;)

Rosic, - I am so impressed with your achievements! Glazing... well don't be afraid of it - it wont bite you. That's one advantage with using glazes.. as the layer beneath is dry, you can simply just wipe away anything that didn't come out as good as you wished for without destroying the foundation.


I'm working on mine... a cropped version.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2004/15549-baccus_step_1.jpg

Oh, - and what is it Baccus is holding in his right hand? Some sort of a ribbon??

//matt

Stephen Brealey
02-01-2004, 07:02 PM
I should have done a crop...all that fruit and drapery is going to drive me nuts.

DLGardner
02-01-2004, 07:38 PM
I have liquin so I'll use that. I will probably just do the bowl of fruit as I really don't want to do the figure for reasons I don't want to explain here. I've been curious to try the glazing thing so I'll do a 9 X 12 of the bowl of fruit.

Hope that suffices. I'm sure I'll learn from it.

Dianne

TeAnne
02-01-2004, 08:01 PM
Excellent Rosic!! Nice crop - I'm still debating .... LOL

TeAnne - The information I put up there is simply just that "info" - doesn't mean you have to do all that - I would like to follow his principles and learn something. Or is it the painting that has you in a tizzy? :) Don't worry - we'll all help each other along the way.

Tina
lol I didn't read the instructions yet. It's the painting, the painting. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh *runs around pulling out hair and bites off all finger nails*
ummmmm I think I will do a crop too. :D

guillot
02-01-2004, 08:13 PM
lol I didn't read the instructions yet. It's the painting, the painting. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh *runs around pulling out hair and bites off all finger nails*
ummmmm I think I will do a crop too. :D

LOL, I know - I know! :evil: I'm seriously thinking crop too. :D

Stephen - I'm looking forward to yours !! Glad you are doing the whole :)

Matt! Look at ya go man! Looks fantastic so far. I haven't started yet :o

:clap: :clap: :clap: for all those who have begun.............

Tina

dcorc
02-01-2004, 10:30 PM
Hi Folks!

Knowing that this one would take a while to do, I made a start on it during the latter part of January. Using alkyds, on board, 24x20.5ins.

This seems to me to be mainly an exercise in shading in the underpainting, and then half-pastes and glazing, so I started using the same technique as I described for my second Zorn attempt, using photoshop and imprinting a charcoal edge onto tacky titanium white, so as to get general proportions accurate.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2004/30792-dcbacc1.jpg

After allowing this to dry, and coating it with a thin scrub of titanium white to fix the charcoal, I then proceeded with the underpainting in burnt umber and titanium white, so here's where I've got to, to date. Needs quite a bit of work to refine it yet.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2004/30792-dcbacc2.jpg

Dave

DanaT
02-01-2004, 11:09 PM
I think I'm in. Yikes!

OK a couple of simple of questions about copying a master. What do you work from? the computer screen? a reduced 8 1/2 x 11 print out? or do you print tiles of the full size image and tape the pages together to make a larger image? I tried copying from a computer screen and it hurt my eyes.

I was thinking about doing this full size until I read the dimensions 34x38! As Teanne says Holy Hell! Half size or 17x19 is more doable for me so I'll have to look for some 17 and 19 inch stretchers. I've gotten in trouble by changing the composition of whatever I'm copying so I'll just stay with the original dimensions divided by 2.

guillot
02-02-2004, 12:12 AM
Oh Boy Dana, is that a trick question, or what? LOL So glad you are going to participate this month!!

Well, any of your ideas will work. Matt gave a link to a higher resolution image, and yes, you can print it out and paste it together, however best suits you. There are also books, of course.... and, the ultimate reference would be a museum with the actual painting, so I envy those that have the better resources, wherever that may be. I try to imagine it, as if I were gazing at it in life, only imagining of course, what it would truly look like. I only use the photo reference for placement reasons, visual shape references, etc. etc. I try my best to imagine the rest. Computer screens, nor printers will give you the actual colors (maybe close....but not actual). But, you can use photoshop or corel or whatever photo software you may have to postuerize, grayscale, etc., get a closer look at stroke directions and angles, etc. So, I don't know if that even helped you or not, but just some ideas.

Glad to have you along for the ride......

WOW DCORC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing !!!!! Beautiful start!! I'll trade you :p

Tina


Tina

Rosic
02-02-2004, 09:26 AM
Dave... You been busy... looks great.

Te... Hey!

Dana... Great to have you join in on this one friend.

Titanium
02-02-2004, 09:44 AM
MIND IF I COME OUT TO PLAY ????

Hello All,
I don't know if I have the time but if I can I try my hand with this one.Lord knows why this one was chosen,the worst most female face on a masculine body.:rolleyes

Anyhow a few hints.

[1]If you want to get anything out this stay same size,even
if it is only a portion.

[2]Caravaggio's ground was a translucent brown,according to the National Gallery Technical Bulletin,a mix of calcite,
pigment and lead white.Exploit this to get the effects.

[3]Some masters had a habit of drawing many studies and
the destroying them so that they would look like a genius.
Michaelangelo was supposed to have done so,as I was told.
Thanks ..L.

[4]Titian taught Caravaggio's teacher.

[5]The glazes here are still very pigment rich,not medium rich.

Best of luck to all.
Titanium

guillot
02-02-2004, 10:27 AM
(((Titanium))) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where have you been?? I've often thought about you, and are you kidding - please do come and play. Thanks for the info as well.

Wow - I'm so happy to see you :) :clap:

Tina

jez_barracude
02-02-2004, 11:29 AM
Thanks very much for this info. I am probably not going to try and change my medium as yet, being a bit of a beginner, but I would at least like to understand the below:


2. There is a belief that his medium may have been similar to Titian's per this author and he uses:
(20 parts linseed oil
litharge (or powdered white lead pigment or white lead paste) 1 part
turpentine - 20 parts
mastic tears - 7 parts)

For the Carravagio demonstration he uses a combination of this and beeswax medium.

5. In the third sitting - Carravaggio would paint "velaturas of flesh tints over the gray underpainting ... and would work subtle grays and pinks into the shadow areas for reflected lights".
Tina

So please forgive what may well be very basic questions (no formal training!)

What are litharge and mastic tears? Do we have to find an animal called a mastic and make it cry? :)
What's a velatura? My dictionary said "glazing by rubbing in with the hand" - does that mean mixing a thin glaze and rubbing in onto the canvas with our fingers? And why would we do that rather than use a brush?

Thanks lots!!
Jez

Andrew
02-02-2004, 12:20 PM
A velatura is a half pigment strength applications, like a glaze, but tends toward opaque pigments. A velatura is still quite pigment rich, but still allows for the underpainting to show through.

Caravaggio may have worked directly from the canvas, but more likely he used a working drawing which was scored and punctured in the process of transferring to the canvas. It would have then been tossed after it served it's purpose.

Andrew

Ruth
02-02-2004, 12:32 PM
Can I play, too? :D

I did an underpainting, then started right in on painting it, couldn't wait for it to dry. I'm more of an alla prima painter anyway. Can I still play?

oil on canvas panel 18x24

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Feb-2004/887-bacchus1.JPG

DanaT
02-02-2004, 12:52 PM
Oooh nice, Ruth. The purples are so rich.

Well, Titanium, you convinced me to go to a crop. I'm doing the face and body. They don't go together, do they? Wonder if he used one model for the head and another for the body. The body looks more sensitively modeled than the face.

OK going out to buy some canvas and stuff.

loop
02-02-2004, 05:09 PM
AGGGGGGGRRRRHHHH :mad: my canvas is STILL tacky I wanted to forgoe the acrylic prime/grounds route to get a smoother canvas... and it might be ready to use in ....two weeks... and it has to be the many layered month, I think I may be screwed this month

ShivaWolf
02-02-2004, 09:07 PM
WOW what a great start!!! Matt, Ruth, dcorc and Stephen

I was going to do this a lot smaller but .... I painted the Zorn quite small and it was not easier....I thought of cropping but I would end up cropping the fruits and cloth out, both of which I need practice on.....sooooo in spirit for which it is intended (to learn from the old masters) heh I will forge ahead with determination on 38x34 :eek: ok this one my not be done at the end of the month but I will have learned much :)

I think he is holding his belt??

Eugene Veszely
02-03-2004, 09:20 AM
Some great starts here. :clap:

guillot
02-03-2004, 02:54 PM
Thanks very much for this info. I am probably not going to try and change my medium as yet, being a bit of a beginner, but I would at least like to understand the below:



So please forgive what may well be very basic questions (no formal training!)

What are litharge and mastic tears? Do we have to find an animal called a mastic and make it cry? :)
What's a velatura? My dictionary said "glazing by rubbing in with the hand" - does that mean mixing a thin glaze and rubbing in onto the canvas with our fingers? And why would we do that rather than use a brush?

Thanks lots!!
Jez

Hi Jez - It's just a bunch of technical garb :) I wouldn't go to all these extremes, just wanted to post what I could find on what is believe to be his general practice, and as Andrew and Titanium has both said, he most likely did use drawings, but discarded them.

Litharge is in the mineral calss of Oxides and is often associated with lead (oxidation).

I use "velaturas", and as has been said they are more opaque glazes, and yes you can use a brush, or a rag, or your finger (though I wouldn't do this).

Everyone is doing so wonderful :) :clap: Hopefully I will get a chance to begin mine this weekend. I sure hope so anyway :)

Tina

DanaT
02-03-2004, 02:58 PM
Well, I got 4 stretchers 20 and 21 inch, some Fredrix Tara canvas, a pair of canvas pliers, some acrylic gesso, and sponge brushes. So all I need is the staple gun. What type should I buy? The hardware had lightweight and heavy duty staple guns with all sizes of staples. It's confusing. :confused:

Control Freak
02-03-2004, 03:04 PM
Hi All
I'm going to be just a spectator this time (maybe i can get time to finish the zorn!)
Nice Starts here already.
Bern: I like the tight crop
Good luck to all
Phil

ShivaWolf
02-03-2004, 03:10 PM
Well, I got 4 stretchers 20 and 21 inch, some Fredrix Tara canvas, a pair of canvas pliers, some acrylic gesso, and sponge brushes. So all I need is the staple gun. What type should I buy? The hardware had lightweight and heavy duty staple guns with all sizes of staples. It's confusing. :confused:

I purchased the heavy duty a few years back and do not regret it at all :)..

DanaT
02-03-2004, 03:15 PM
Thanks ShivaWolf. What size staples do you use?

Ruth
02-03-2004, 06:07 PM
a little progress...

Rosic
02-03-2004, 08:04 PM
Everyone's progress is looking great!

Dave... love your underpainting!

Ruth... coming along nicely (and fairly quick I might add).

Phil... gonna miss having you but I'm sure you'll be around for moral support.

Dana... glad to see you getting all your ducks in a row! LOL!

guillot
02-04-2004, 12:38 AM
Hi All
I'm going to be just a spectator this time (maybe i can get time to finish the zorn!)
Nice Starts here already.
Bern: I like the tight crop
Good luck to all
Phil


We still want to see that Zorn, and if you don't make it this month, well maybe you'll get with us next month. Thanks for the luck - I know I'll need it ;) !! Hope you will keep checking in on us and if you find the time to join in, please do..

Ruth - :D Lovely !!!!!! So happy to see you painting with us !!

Tina

ShivaWolf
02-04-2004, 11:34 AM
Thanks ShivaWolf. What size staples do you use?


There the T-50 5/16 this size has worked just fine
:)

Rosic
02-04-2004, 02:46 PM
Here's my latest update.

Didn't get a chance to paint much today... off to play Batman with my grandson... :)

Looking forward to seeing everyone else's progress.

Bern

mcknight
02-05-2004, 01:02 AM
Hey, I did a quick sketch of this a couple months ago. It wasn't this month but I'll post it anyway, since it's from the same masterpiece. Mine was just a one hour study on canva paper so the lack of planning, distortions and crammed space is apparent.

guillot
02-05-2004, 08:14 PM
Hi McKnight - great work there!! I'm glad that you have shared this with us :) What did you learn and what were your experiences from copying, (sketching/studying) Carravagio?

Tina

DanaT
02-06-2004, 12:08 AM
Looking good, Bernie! That green is really going to make his skin shine in contrast! Old Bacchus here sure has rosier skin than Zorn's girl did last month, doesn't he? Must be the wine. :D

Brian, this is really impressive for an hour. With such a short time, how did you go about it?

Well, finally tomorrow, I'll have some time to prep the canvas and do a washin. I think I'm going to pass on Caravaggio's special medium; sounds too complicated. :o I'm thinking about using Copal.

guillot
02-06-2004, 07:57 AM
Well, finally tomorrow, I'll have some time to prep the canvas and do a washin. I think I'm going to pass on Caravaggio's special medium; sounds too complicated. :o I'm thinking about using Copal.

Hi Dana, happy your finding some time - I'm planning on working on mine this weekend too. Can't decide on crop or whole, can't decide on size, etc. No way on the special medium for me too - I'll be using Galkyd. I'll probably get up around 5:00 when the house is nice and quiet and begin. I want to be able to paint all day tomorrow at least.

Well, good luck to all ....

Tina

Rosic
02-06-2004, 09:26 AM
Looking good, Bernie! That green is really going to make his skin shine in contrast! Old Bacchus here sure has rosier skin than Zorn's girl did last month, doesn't he? Must be the wine. :D

Gotta be the reason! ROTFLMAO! :D

Oh Tina... lots of action at your house too... huh?
Remember I said I was lucky if I could paint one day a week... between working retail hours and a 2 1/2 year old in the house... well nuff said! :D
Hope you have a happy painting day! ;)
Bernie

guillot
02-07-2004, 09:59 AM
Gotta be the reason! ROTFLMAO! :D

Oh Tina... lots of action at your house too... huh?
Remember I said I was lucky if I could paint one day a week... between working retail hours and a 2 1/2 year old in the house... well nuff said! :D
Hope you have a happy painting day! ;)
Bernie

Hi Bernie - Always lots of action around here, a real problem for me sometimes :) I work full time, and sometimes I have to work on the weekends as well. I'm usually brain dead by the time I get home. (plus I have one Teenager that needs an attitude adjustment and one 9 year old that loves to prod the teenagers attitude) Plus, I have two other things on my easel this month as well that I would like to finish, so - I need to prioritize. I have yet to begin this one, but definitely plan on taking the plunge today.

How is everyone coming along?? Such great beginnings so far. Anyone running into any problems?

Tina

Matt Sammekull
02-07-2004, 01:35 PM
Hi all!

Sorry for stopping by so seldom as I do lately... but I am about to move and all my painting stuff are packed down. But I'll finish this Caravaggio within this month even so. I personally think this is way easier than the Zorn. This is more about mechanics to me, than personal touch and such...

On another note;

I see how everyone really enjoys the wok of Sargent, and maybe we should include him?
Which month would you rather have replaced with a Sargent? And which Sargent would that be?

Good work eveyone!!

//matt

DLGardner
02-07-2004, 02:49 PM
but I am about to move and all my painting stuff are packed down.

Matt! when are you moving? I'll get back with you on the paints until you are settled if its going to be in a short while. I have enough now to hold me over and I need to save up the cash.

I'd like to do a Sargent next month if I get a vote.
I'd like to do one of his Spanish flavored paintings.

JMHO0

Dianne

mcknight
02-07-2004, 05:56 PM
Hi McKnight - great work there!! I'm glad that you have shared this with us :) What did you learn and what were your experiences from copying, (sketching/studying) Carravagio?

Tina

Thanks. What did I learn?...hmmm...well, this one was so quick and painting unlike the original that I really don't think anything sunk in particular to Caravaggio. But then I imagine I got something out of it at a subconscious level.

Matt Sammekull
02-07-2004, 06:06 PM
Matt! when are you moving? I'll get back with you on the paints until you are settled if its going to be in a short while. I have enough now to hold me over and I need to save up the cash.

I'd like to do a Sargent next month if I get a vote.
I'd like to do one of his Spanish flavored paintings.

JMHO0

Dianne


Hey Dianne!

I replied in the "Paint" thread on the Beckers "A" colors. And I posted a thread on having a Sargent in the MOM project where any input is appreciated..

We're moving this Saturday... and I will be off-line for a few weeks I'm afraid. I'm changing internet supplier and this evidentially takes the company a few weeks to set up.

//matt

guillot
02-08-2004, 04:12 AM
Good luck with your move Matt !!

Ok, here's what I've got so far. My canvas is a 22" x 28" and I decided to take the plunge for the whole painting - god willing. (What was I thinking?) I'm laying in my burnt umber washes very carefully. Don't want to lose the lighter values. I have some weird things going on - but hey - only 30 min of actual painting so far...

It's a bit dark and you really can't tell too much at this stage, but I'm just happy that I at least started something here...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Feb-2004/5957-beginning2.jpg

Tina

Eugene Veszely
02-08-2004, 04:37 AM
Hi all!

Sorry for stopping by so seldom as I do lately... but I am about to move and all my painting stuff are packed down.
//matt


I hope everything gets to where it needs to in one piece :)

guillot
02-08-2004, 07:21 AM
OMG - I've been working on this all night - It's 4:20 in the morning !!

Here's an update - lots of stuff still yet to do, and some tweaking here and there. To this point - still only Burnt Umber and English Distilled Turps. Lots of rubbing and blending. Q-tips are wonderful :)

I need SOME SLEEP :) My eyeballs are rolling in my head, and this is probably going to be really terrible when I look back at it later this morning. Anyway - here goes...

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Feb-2004/5957-second2.jpg

guillot
02-08-2004, 04:59 PM
OK - :o lots to fix, :eek: His face looks pretty dirty for a pretty boy :D But, that's OK, I surely can not draw like Carravagio :D His face will be covered with opaque grays anyway next sitting. So, I'm still trying to finish my "first sitting" with nothing but burnt umber and turps. Is it legal to have a first sitting spread out over the course of a few days? LOL

The second sitting I'll use flake white, ivory black and burnt umber making some opaque grays and attempt to work this into the flesh tones. I'm trying to follow the "Techniques of Carrvagio - How to Paint Like the Old Masters", Carravagios "probable working sequence". Here it says that these opaque grays should be "modeled and blended into the shadow edges, being careful not to paint back into the shadow itself." Oh boy! Well, this would mean I better have my shadow areas right with the burnt umber & turps? "No buildup of lights, translucent shadows, inner-forms well blended." YIKES !

Oh well, I have a lot of work cut out for myself. I hope I learn something from all of this :) This is my first ever male figure that I've actually gotten this far, this will also be my first glass ever, and my first apple ever (Yes folks - I have still never painted an apple! Anyone else? ) and I've needed something to push me. So this will be it I guess :o

Came back to edit to give a better picture, taken outside...

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Feb-2004/5957-FEB_Outside.jpg

Rosic
02-08-2004, 05:13 PM
Tina...
I think your all-nighter was worth it!
Coming along nicely... and the whole sha-bang! WOW... I'm impressed!
Bernie

DanaT
02-08-2004, 05:20 PM
Way to go Tina! This is looking great!

Don't worry about your drawing; none of us can draw like Caravaggio, it looks fine! His face is darker than the rest of his body so you hit the nail on the head there with the darker values. Funny, I was thinking about your thread on hair here, this is one painting where you don't have to worry about the hair.

I was confused by the second stage too. That means we use the greyscale on the lights and midtones but not the darks?

Well I just got back from Kinkos who printed up a full size color pic of my crop giving me a student discount. The girl at Kinkos said, she has big biceps for a girl. LOL

So now the painting begins!

Ruth
02-08-2004, 10:11 PM
...more progress...if you can call it that :evil:

guillot
02-08-2004, 10:14 PM
Hi Bernie - Thanks for the comments. I totally lost my drawing on the wine glass and his hand so gotta fix that too. I think I have his face too chubby too. I guess it will all work itself out. How yours coming along?

Funny, I was thinking about your thread on hair here, this is one painting where you don't have to worry about the hair.

I was confused by the second stage too. That means we use the greyscale on the lights and midtones but not the darks?


LOL Dana! For sure, no worries here huh with the hair!! Funny Kinko's story too!! On the values, I would think one should not exclude the darkest value when determining the lights and midtones, right? The lights, per this book I have on his techniques, are not very clear, but are mentioned in the final sitting where it says the sitting is reserved for "large overall dark glazes and manipulating the lights", but in the second sitting, I'll be doing the gray underpainting for the skin tones, only coming back to put velaturas over this, so, for that the lights in the skin tones would need (or, maybe not since velaturas are more on the opaque side) to be established, so hey - I'm confused :D. I hope I haven't confused anyone else and I hope no one thinks that Feb MOM is supposed to go this way - I'm just torturing myself everyone of course :) Any input and ideas would be great appreciated ;)

We crossed paths Ruth - Just wanted to say lovely!! I like the colors you are using !!

Thanks,
Tina

DanaT
02-08-2004, 10:33 PM
Hi all!

I'm taking a break from the underpainting and coming here for inspiration. This is really intense, I have to come up for air now and then. I'm only halfway done and I chose a crop, for heaven's sake. LOL

Just finishing up the drapery and next the head. Hopefully all the portrait practice I've been doing will make the head go quickly. I already know I have the skintones in the chest too dark.

Tina, I think the confusion is whether we're painting the darks in the skintone with opaque greys. They're dark for skintones but compared to the background they're more like midtones. Well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it huh?

OK, off I am again. Ruth, yours is coming along so wonderfully. Color is going to become my nemesis.

Rosic
02-08-2004, 10:34 PM
Tina... worked a little more on the BG and hair... nothing worth posting. Will get to work on it more Wednesday. Thanks for asking.

Dana... Looks like we'll see something from you soon! Can't wait!

Ruth... yours is coming along nicely. :clap:

dcorc
02-08-2004, 10:53 PM
All coming along well - I think the Joseph Sheppard book is probably better treated as an entertaining read with good suggestions and informed guesswork rather than as "gospel" - The way I read it, he's suggesting doing a burnt umber painting/wipeout first, followed by greys in lighter toned areas, then semiopaque/opaque skintones and glazes elsewhere. Personally, I've changed this a bit, starting with a burnt umber and white underpainting, which I haven't quite finished yet, to be followed by some thin greys to bring me back out to something approximating to the end of Sheppard's greys stage. (Well that's the plan, anyway!)

Dave

DanaT
02-09-2004, 12:38 PM
The burnt umber wash on the underpainting begin to dry before I could finish wiping out the face and even start on the leaves so the underpainting was finished before I was. I put linseed oil in the wash to keep it from drying out but it was desert dry after about 4 hours.

Too bad, I was really enjoying it. I still think I can save the face and the leaves when I paint the opaque greys but I think I'm going to put another layer of burnt umber on the background and hair to make them darker before putting the glazes on.

guillot
02-09-2004, 08:02 PM
All coming along well - I think the Joseph Sheppard book is probably better treated as an entertaining read with good suggestions and informed guesswork rather than as "gospel" - The way I read it, he's suggesting doing a burnt umber painting/wipeout first, followed by greys in lighter toned areas, then semiopaque/opaque skintones and glazes elsewhere. Personally, I've changed this a bit, starting with a burnt umber and white underpainting, which I haven't quite finished yet, to be followed by some thin greys to bring me back out to something approximating to the end of Sheppard's greys stage. (Well that's the plan, anyway!)

Dave

Absolutely Dave!! Never said it was gospel - and I surely don't want anyone else to punish themselves as I have trying to follow it :D LOL Your's looks fantastic so far Dave!!

Dana, it does dry pretty quickly, huh? I was rubbing as soon as I put a good area down, as I went. Wetting another brush with turps to refine or lighten some areas the rag just wouldn't get - and then wiping real quick. Lots of work, all that rubbing, LOL Still have more to do too. Yours is coming along great and yes, I know that I will cross many roads before I there :) And I'm sure others will too. So much fun !!!! I'm learning a great deal from doing these. We'll get through it ;)

Oh, and I forgot to say - had to come back to edit - that last night I was thinking if I would have cropped any portion, it would have been exactly as you have yours cropped!! The exact composition I had in mind - how weird :) :cool:

Tina

DanaT
02-09-2004, 10:39 PM
... last night I was thinking if I would have cropped any portion, it would have been exactly as you have yours cropped!! The exact composition I had in mind - how weird :) :cool:


No, its not weird. Great minds think alike. ;) Notice I left off the hand. :)

It may be next weekend before I can do anything more.

Rosic
02-09-2004, 11:28 PM
Looking good Dana!

Crop the hand heh... I was seriously thinking about doing a close up of one leaf in this guys hair before I settled for the crop I did... LOL :D !

ShivaWolf
02-10-2004, 11:44 AM
Looks great Dana :)
wow every one has such a great start
I'm still preparing the canvas :angel:

loop
02-10-2004, 02:36 PM
wow every one has such a great start
I'm still preparing the canvas :angel:

mee too. my canvas is still drying I ("should") be able to use it sunday

guillot
02-11-2004, 07:58 PM
Hoping I can get back to mine some tonight. Have to work tomorrow - then a 4-day weekend ! I can handle that :D So I want to finish the Burnt Umber/Turps, - then, the fun begins :)

Hiya Loop !! I was beginning to wonder where everyone was, LOL ...

Tina

Ruth
02-12-2004, 07:19 PM
Thanks for your comments, y'all! Got some more done today...I think I learned a little bit about blending and glazing. I was using a nylon flat brush intended for acrylic paint, very soft, allows a light touch. Very different from my usual heavy-handed style. I also learned that I have to wear my glasses to do this kind of stuff :mad: grump.

Today's progress and a couple of closeups:

DanaT
02-12-2004, 11:42 PM
This is looking so good Ruth! Your still life and figure experience is really shining through!

What did you learn about glazing by doing this?

Rosic
02-13-2004, 12:32 AM
What did you learn about glazing by doing this?
I'm curious too Ruth...
Great work BTW!
Rosic

guillot
02-13-2004, 11:24 AM
Ruth, that's amazing!! I've always loved your use of color. All of your paintings are always so colorful!!!! Just love it!! What did you learn with the glazing? Care to share?

Where is everyone ??????????????? Please don't give up guys :D :angel:

Dana, Rosic, Dcorc, Shivawolf, Loop (and everyone else that I may have missed) ............ how's it coming along???? What problems are you running into, if any?

I've got to do my housework this morning and get it behind me (I have a four day weekend :D ) That way I can PAINT all weekend if I want to and not have to worry about the housework. Otherwise, my head will not be clear. I really need to concentrate on his hands. I need LOTS of practice with hands !!

I'm seriously hoping that I can finish the underpainting/wash today or by early tomorrow. Maybe another all nighter?

Tina

DanaT
02-13-2004, 11:57 AM
Give up? Not us! :angel: I expect this is a weekend project for most of us, Tina. Looking forward to being able to do more work on it.

dcorc
02-13-2004, 12:02 PM
Where is everyone ??????????????? Please don't give up guys :D :angel:

Dana, Rosic, Dcorc, Shivawolf, Loop (and everyone else that I may have missed) ............ how's it coming along???? What problems are you running into, if any?


Hi folks

Life's just getting in the way at the moment - been very busy - I've been doing a few mins here, a few mins there, though - the weekend and next week look to be fairly quiet for me, so should be able to make some significant progress on it (and several other paintings I've got on the go). Should finish the underpainting this weekend I hope. I'll post an update image then.

Personally, so far I'm not having any problems with this, I'm enjoying it far more than the Zorn, as it's all about blending and layering and adjustments, rather than the big bristle brush Rolf Harris style ("canyetellwha'itisyet?") which the Zorn needed.

Perhaps we'll hear how others are getting on across the weekend too !

Dave

Ruth
02-13-2004, 02:00 PM
This is looking so good Ruth! Your still life and figure experience is really shining through!

What did you learn about glazing by doing this?

:D Well, it was more of a kinesthetic learning, not sure I can put it into words. I had in my mind that glazes had to be completely transparent, but what I was doing was more semi-opaque. Using the underpainting more as a guide to match values to, rather than being what determined the value. I'm not making any sense, I know.

Mostly it was just a different approach to applying paint to canvas. I used a LOT more medium (Liquin) than I usually do, and a softer brush, and applied the paint smoothly and thinly. I'm not sure I have the patience to do much of this.
:D
Ruth

guillot
02-13-2004, 02:17 PM
I had in my mind that glazes had to be completely transparent, but what I was doing was more semi-opaque. Using the underpainting more as a guide to match values to, rather than being what determined the value. I'm not making any sense, I know. Ruth

That makes perfect sense :)

Ruth
02-13-2004, 02:29 PM
That makes perfect sense :)


Thanks Tina! Sometimes I wonder... :D

Ruth

DanaT
02-13-2004, 02:34 PM
LOL Ruth on the patience thing!

I think I'm going to have to do some of the same things you're doing on the glazes. The skintones in my underpainting are just too dark to put totally transparent glazes on.

dcorc
02-13-2004, 02:39 PM
I had in my mind that glazes had to be completely transparent, but what I was doing was more semi-opaque. Using the underpainting more as a guide to match values to, rather than being what determined the value.

I also think that makes perfect sense - one of the reasons I like painting this way is that using semiopaque/semitranslucent(optimist/pessimist? :) ) glazes is that one can get very subtle tones, and a very soft-focus look, where any evidence of brushstrokes can be made to disappear by "averaging" across 2 or 3 layers, and areas can be heightened or darkened at will. (with sufficient patience!)

Dave

guillot
02-14-2004, 12:13 AM
LOL Ruth on the patience thing!

I think I'm going to have to do some of the same things you're doing on the glazes. The skintones in my underpainting are just too dark to put totally transparent glazes on.

Exactly - That's why I'm following Sheppard's Suggestions for opaque grays in the skin tones after this session of burnt umber. Have to get the tones correct for the final glazes! The rest of the painting will most likely have (hopefully) successful transparent glazes applied without having to put down opaque grays first. Only opaque grays in the skin tones, keying up the lights to the highest, and then toning them down with a final transparent glaze. Does that make sense?

Dave, I like the "optimistic/pessimistic" reference, LOL ! So true. And you are so right about the soft focus results. I'm working on a portrait of my daughter right now, and I just love working with underpaintings!! Takes a lot more time, yes, but I really love the final results.

WOW - isn't this fun? Glad to see you guys are still hanging around. I would hate to see these activities become unsuccessful - such a great learning adventure to be on !!!

Thanks everyone,
Tina


Tina

DanaT
02-14-2004, 12:44 AM
Tina, I LOVE to start with underpaintings! Its the perfect transition from drawing to painting. The portrait I'm working on in class started with a burnt umber underpainting. I wanted to show a detail in the Easel thread but the scan came out crummy. I'll have to wait till tomorrow morning and take a digipic in the sunlight.

I haven't tried a grisaille over an underpainting yet but I'm looking forward to it with the Bacchus. Heck, I have these 9 greys mixed up and ready to go I might as well see what they can do on their own! :)

That makes perfect sense keying the greys to the highest skin tone then toning down the darks with glazes.

:music: Tomorrow, tomorrow, I get to paint tomorrow. :music:

Rosic
02-14-2004, 12:45 AM
Exactly - That's why I'm following Sheppard's Suggestions for opaque grays in the skin tones after this session of burnt umber. Have to get the tones correct for the final glazes! The rest of the painting will most likely have (hopefully) successful transparent glazes applied without having to put down opaque grays first. Only opaque grays in the skin tones, keying up the lights to the highest, and then toning them down with a final transparent glaze. Does that make sense?
Tina
This is the route I am taking also. I have the grays done and hope to show an update soon... gotta get batteries for the digi :( ...

Need advice: From this point do I simply mix flesh colors and dilute with Liquin and glaze over the grays? How many coats/glazes can I expect to use? Is it better to coat the area (canvas) with Liquin and then brush the pigment on or is it better to mix the pigment with the Liquin and then brush on? I heard some one mention scumble in... what does that mean? Boy am I acting like Little Johnny with all these questions or what! :evil:

I am thoroughly enjoying this project and the new friends I am making in this forum.

DanaT
02-14-2004, 12:57 AM
Bernie, I would mix the Liquin with the paint before applying it to the canvas. As to how many glazes, that I can't tell you because I haven't done it either but I imagine that more than 2 or 3 coats are not going to be transparent anymore. I think the lights get fewer glazes because the glazes darken the values.

Scumble is when you take a dry pigment and rub it in a brush so that very little pigment remains on the brush and then you brush it over an area.

So now Little Johnny, you can start painting now. :)

Rosic
02-14-2004, 01:06 AM
So now Little Johnny, you can start painting now. :)
Thanks Sweetie! ;)

guillot
02-14-2004, 01:48 AM
Need advice: From this point do I simply mix flesh colors and dilute with Liquin and glaze over the grays? How many coats/glazes can I expect to use? Is it better to coat the area (canvas) with Liquin and then brush the pigment on or is it better to mix the pigment with the Liquin and then brush on? I heard some one mention scumble in... what does that mean? Boy am I acting like Little Johnny with all these questions or what! :evil:

I am thoroughly enjoying this project and the new friends I am making in this forum.

Hi Bernie, Yes. When we consider the "fat over lean" rule when using liquin, the more liquin - the fatter. As long as the glazes are transparent, regardless of layers, it will create a beautiful depth in the color that there is no other way to obtain. Start off with a touch, smidget of liquin, watch the colors you are using, whether or not they are "transparent" in nature, etc., and apply your "glazes". You can always go back, add just a touch more liquin and refine as you need. I'm using Galkyd for my glazing medium. Semi-opaque or opaque glazes are known as "velaturas". You can also glaze back over them, if the tonal value or color is not what you want, with a transparent glaze as well. Lots of building up of color and depth can be achieved this way.

Bernie, ((Dana)) gave you a supreme reply for the scumbling. Sometimes you can also "scumble" and wipe back down to achieve what it is you are after. Sometimes you may want just a tint of a nice blue-white with medium to transpose a section (for instance - and I'm thinking like my mist solution in some of my landscapes) that will take applying it, and then wiping it back, leaving pigment in place with a nice "effect". Sometimes scumbling can correct shadow areas, etc. Just one of those things.....

Bernie - We're happy to make friends with you too...... No better place than here at Wetcanvas!!

Tina

guillot
02-14-2004, 04:07 AM
Just posting an update - not much :D But - I did want to share with Dana this fact:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Bacchus_closeup_redefining.jpg

Notice from my other post this area was dark. Even after a week, or so, of being untouched, I could come back with some English Distilled turps with my brush ( a small #2 flat bristle ((very small :) )) ), redefine that area, and wipe it back out to regain a lighter value. Simply dipping the brush in turps, going along the area I want to lighten with the brush, and then gently wiping. If your concerns are in the area of the skin tones Dana - I wouldn't worry about it if you are doing as I am, covering the skin tones with opaque grays - but, I am able to go back and pull the pigment back off, not completely of course, but at least to the point of satisfaction.

I totally lost my drawing (wiped too hard :D :evil: ) of his hand under the wine glass. So - I've sketched back in that area and have to finish the rest of the underpainting. I ended up with like a 4 hour nap this afternoon :evil: , so, my plans to have this closer to a finishing stage are harbored.

Here's an update:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Bacchus_13_Feb.jpg

Tina

guillot
02-14-2004, 05:21 AM
Maybe somne better examples of my working sequence:

A shot at my palette, the container I have my turps in (one of those candle holders, scented, that you can never find a refill for :D - my brush, and a little pot glass water container tray (that I never found a refill for either :D) - yes have paints covered in Glad Wrap on my palette for something else I'm working on..... The rag, from an old pair of worn out sweat pants ( ;) ) turned inside out....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Palette.jpg

Anyhoo:

Identifying the need for a lighter value:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Placement_1.jpg

Scrubbing in the turps:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Working_the_turps.jpg

Wiping with a soft rag ( or a good firm scrub):


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Wiping.jpg

And, the result:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-After.jpg



I just may be pulling an almost all nighter .......... does that count? :angel:

Tina

Rosic
02-14-2004, 09:44 AM
Wow Tina... you must really LIKE me by giving me such a neat Valentine's present with all the helpful info and the live demo! ;)

Yes I'll be your WC Valentine :D

guillot
02-14-2004, 06:39 PM
:D Bernie !!! I was hoping that the demo would help someone. Happy Valentines Day to you and everyone else today.

I had to go do the "tax thing" today, so I haven't had a chance to come back to my painting yet. I'm about ready to start working on it again. I need to finish up the bottom portion of the painting - got a little carried away down there in the wee hours of this morning :) But, the underpainting is drawing to a near close. I will be happy when this part is completed so I can move on.

Anyway, here's another small update - not much to report but here it is anyway:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2004/5957-Update_14_Feb_1A.jpg

Tina

DanaT
02-14-2004, 07:45 PM
Tina! What an awesome demo! :clap:

Yes, I'll be glad when we move on from the underpainting but I'm learning so much. I finished my taxes last week so I don't have an excuse.

Bernie, I thought I was your Valentine. LOL :D

Rosic
02-14-2004, 09:49 PM
Bernie, I thought I was your Valentine. LOL :D
You are!

Got batteries and will post an update tomorrow.

dcorc
02-15-2004, 03:00 PM
Finished the burnt umber + white underpainting stage. 20.5x24ins on board.

It's alkyds, so drying overnight before the next stage.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Feb-2004/30792-dcbacc3.jpg

Dave

guillot
02-15-2004, 05:45 PM
I'm in awe Dave!! It's excellent !!!!!

Tina

Rosic
02-15-2004, 07:54 PM
WOW Dave... Impressive! :clap:

Well I finally got batteries... took the picture... and here is where I am on the project so far.

Tell you what Olivia (my 2 1/2 year old daughter) thinks of it...
she said, "Daddy why are you painting a mad lady?"...
out of the mouths of babes! LOL! :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Feb-2004/17108-momfeb4.JPG

guillot
02-15-2004, 09:05 PM
Bernie!! Great job. Aren't children the best? They say the funniest things :D You're grays look wonderful! I like the crop. My girls thought it was a woman too :) They wanted to know why she was so flat chested. :angel:

Dave - how do you like working with Alkyds? I haven't tried alkyd's yet. I love the subtle grays showing through your work. Very nice.

It's so exciting seeing everyones progress.

This is my last update on the underpainting, until after I put all the opaque grays in the skin tones. I believe I'm nearing the end on this. Just a couple of more value adjustments to make here and there. And then I'm on my way. I don't know what is all over there at the far left of the table - so I'm improvising there. But I need to work on some of the folds in the fabric a little more, around his hand, etc. So - we're off everyone!! And what a fantastic start everyone has so far!!

Thanks everyone,
Tina


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Feb-2004/5957-Update_15_Feb_A.jpg

dcorc
02-15-2004, 10:03 PM
Tina, Bernie,

thank you - I'm flattered!

Tina - I love alkyds, they're pretty well the only thing I paint in currently. I've previously used oils and acrylics, and I prefer alkyds to both. I've painted, off and on, since I was about 14 - at first with oils, then I switched to acrylics when I was at uni in early 80s, then back to oils, and then to alkyds in the early 90's. I stopped painting for 4 or 5 years, then took up alkyds again a couple of years ago. They "set" in a couple of hours, and dry overnight or faster. They don't have such a high pigment load as traditional oils, but I tend to mainly paint in layers and glazes anyway, so that's not a problem. The "grays" you refer to are mostly white scumbled over a previous layer of umber, and the light scattering seems to knock the brown out of it - though there may also be a few areas where the white picked up the charcoal drawing and got dirtied by it. You're braver than I am, in doing a pure burnt umber wipeout approach! I'm pleased to see that you're also having a go at the whole thing, rather than a crop!

Bernie - your grisaille and initial colouring of the leaves looks promising. Is the skin in your underpainting a neutral gray, or is there a bit of blue mixed in? - it looks a little blue on the monitor here.

Anybody got any thoughts on their palette for glazes? I'm particularly interested to know what people are thinking of using for skintones and for the greens.

Anyone else made progress over the weekend? Dana?

I wonder how Matt's move is going? - hope he can rejoin us sooner rather than later!

Dave

Rosic
02-15-2004, 10:18 PM
Bernie - your grisaille and initial colouring of the leaves looks promising. Is the skin in your underpainting a neutral gray, or is there a bit of blue mixed in? - it looks a little blue on the monitor here.

Anybody got any thoughts on their palette for glazes? I'm particularly interested to know what people are thinking of using for skintones and for the greens.

Dave
Dave... Neutral gray (I used Titanium White and Ivory Black) but you are right about the blue look on the monitor.

I'm interested in everyones palette too.

guillot
02-15-2004, 11:20 PM
Anybody got any thoughts on their palette for glazes? I'm particularly interested to know what people are thinking of using for skintones and for the greens. Dave

Oh boy! THAT is the question!! Dave! :D Well, I'm of course thinking of all the transparent colors that I can right now. Thank you too for your thoughts on my process - it's been quite a task to do the whole thing - I just hope I can finish it this month :D

Greens- Thalo green - semitransparent. Sap green - transparent. I believe Terre Verte is also semi-transparent / or, transparent either or...... Blues: Prussian blue - a nice semi-transparent - Ultramarine maybe. Of course, Alizarin Crimson. Also, for some touch of violets - for glazes - prussian blue with a touch of Arlizarin. Skin tones - tricky because these are most likely going to be semi-transparent colors. Easy to get a good rosy semi-transparent with a bit of alizarin and a touch of zinc white. But - wouldn't you know - my Gamblin's Galkyd tipped over, and leaked out because the cap cracked in like a million places (Martha - are ya listen? ) Really disturbing - needs a better package. :D Lost a whole bottle because the cap got stuck, I got it opened, but the cap busted into a bunch of little pieces. I'm very upset over that!!! But I still have a tube of Gamblin's Galkyd Gel, which I'm sure I can use for glazes as well - Oh well - we'll see :D So- now I'm rambling and I'm not sure Dave - I guess I'll cross those roads as I get to them. I could easily replace some of those greens in the skin tones with a verdaccio instead of a grisaille. Sometimes, with a verdaccio, if the tones and values are fairly correct - you can totally glaze with a raw sienna mix and almost be right on the mark without much further work !! With just a bit of tweaking here and there. If all else fails - I can at least use a 50/50 mix of standoils and turps, but I was REALLY looking forward to using all galkyd. I have Liquin too, but would rather use something else - it dries too fast for my liking depending on of course what I'm working on. I like to be able to come back and re-work if necessary. There will be, I think, more veluturas in this painting, with maybe final transparent glaze over that. Just my thoughts.

Ivory black as a tendency to lean toward a blue-black when mixed with white. In this case - nothing wrong with that either because if you think about it, if you have those blues in the undertones, when you glaze with a semi-transparent yellow - or even a "velatura" yellow - your going to get those greens. Even if you have to wipe back a little bit to get back to leaving just a bit of the pigment there, you're going to have a "green". Very interesting stuff!! Very entertaining thoughts.

Hey - I'm learning so I could be very wrong in my thought process.

HOW MUCH FUN!!

I'm so happy to have all you guys aboard for this. I miss Matt too, as I'm sure everyone else does. He's such a fantastic mentor. What more could you ask for? So is Zarathrustra!! Where are you Z? Just becuase you aren't participating doesn't mean you can't provide your valuable advice my friend :D. :cool: As far as that goes - to all of you not participating - doesn't mean that you can't provide your valuable input. We're leaping mountains here - and all input is valuable!!

WHAT A MOUNTAIN TO CLIMB!!!!!!!!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I love ya all :D

Tina

Rosic
02-16-2004, 09:55 AM
Ivory black as a tendency to lean toward a blue-black when mixed with white. In this case - nothing wrong with that either because if you think about it, if you have those blues in the undertones, when you glaze with a semi-transparent yellow - or even a "velatura" yellow - your going to get those greens. Even if you have to wipe back a little bit to get back to leaving just a bit of the pigment there, you're going to have a "green". Very interesting stuff!! Very entertaining thoughts.

Tina
Thanks Tina... boy I have a lot to learn about mixing colors. I think as a beginner that is the scariest part for me. Thanks for the palette info.
Bern

dcorc
02-16-2004, 10:42 AM
First glazes - with vermilion hue (toluidine red), and french ultramarine. I'm going to try getting the greens with separate glazes of blue and yellow!
As glazing is a continual matter of discussion on the forum, this shows how I, at least, do them. The paint is thinned with medium (I'm using liquin) and brushed on extremely thinly, using a soft brush, so that often it just barely tints the area I'm applying it to - I vary this a bit. I'm prepared to use several layers to finally get the colour I want (if I'm successful!). While I'm glazing, I use a second brush to blend and soften edges of glazed areas, and a third dampened with white spirit to remove any "overspill" onto adjacent areas where there are sharp edges. The biggest problems with glazes are not getting carried away and glazing too heavily, making areas too dark or too strongly coloured in "one direction" in the process.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Feb-2004/30792-dcbacc4.jpg

Dave

loop
02-16-2004, 11:14 AM
Where is everyone ??????????????? Please don't give up guys :D :angel:

Dana, Rosic, Dcorc, Shivawolf, Loop (and everyone else that I may have missed) ............ how's it coming along???? What problems are you running into, if any?

Tina



"ARRRRGGGHHHHH" that is my neanderthalic scream of frustration... my @@#$%$##@W$%^#$%#$*&% canvas is still tacky, not like this particular painting would take more that 3-4 hours anyway :rolleyes:
I think I'm screwed this month and I didn't even squeeze a tube :crying:

BTW Tina, is that not a quote from a godsmack song ??

Rosic
02-16-2004, 11:32 AM
Dave... I cannot tell you enough how much I appreciate this play-by-play call of your experiences with this piece... especially the problems you were challenged with. Hope you can do this every post so I can ride your coat-tails on this one :D ! Thanks a bunch!!!!
Bern

dcorc
02-16-2004, 02:49 PM
"ARRRRGGGHHHHH" ....



Hi Loop

Hugely frustrating! What exactly did you prime it with?

Dave

guillot
02-17-2004, 12:24 AM
BTW Tina, is that not a quote from a godsmack song ??


Whoops !! :o :o You are correct. Wrong artist - shame on me !!

What did you use on your canvas ??

Dave - Looking GREAT !! :clap: :clap:

Tina

Artist1955
02-17-2004, 01:36 AM
I could come back with some English Distilled turps with my brush ( a small #2 flat bristle ((very small :) )) ), redefine that area, and wipe it back out to regain a lighter value. Simply dipping the brush in turps, going along the area I want to lighten with the brush, and then gently wiping. If your concerns are in the area of the skin tones Dana


Tina is this the rubout Technique I read about.
Robert

dcorc
02-17-2004, 10:07 AM
This is after two further sessions, one last night, and one just now.

In last night's session I glazed part of the background with yellow ochre and part with ivory black, the hair and ribbon with ivory black, the green fruit and all the leaves with yellow ochre (except the red one in the hair). I also glazed the skin very thinly with yellow ochre, The wine in carafe and glass and the red leaf were glazed with burnt sienna as were reddish areas on the fruit. The dark object at bottom right was glazed with ultramarine.

In today's session, the burnt sienna areas were reglazed, and a very thin pale mix of white and burnt sienna applied generally to the skin. Leaves in the hair and green fruit were glazed with a very thin layer of cadmium yellow (I feel that this is a bit of a cheat, but necessary to get them to look less dull - does anyone know what yellows brighter than ochre might have been available to Caravaggio?)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Feb-2004/30792-dcbacc5.jpg

Dave

Rosic
02-17-2004, 11:53 PM
Looking good Dave!
Hope to work on mine tomorrow.
Thanks for the helpful hints!
Bern

dcorc
02-18-2004, 12:23 AM
thanks Bern - did a glaze of the wine and red leaf with cadmium red dark (in lieu of crimson) earlier. I've now just scrubbed a thin layer of liquin over the whole thing, and I'd have to say that I'm pretty pleased with it so far (but there's plenty of opportunity to screw it up yet!). Looking forward to your next stage.

Anybody else out there? Tina? Dianne? Stephen? Dana? Ruth? TeAnne?....anyone..........hello...........helllllloooooooo............. :D

Dave

Rosic
02-18-2004, 12:30 AM
I've now just scrubbed a thin layer of liquin over the whole thing,
Dave
Fill a novice like me in on what this step is for?

PS... I might add that I am quite pleased with yours thus far too Dave!

dcorc
02-18-2004, 12:36 AM
Just trying to even up the sheen and bring out the colours - akin to oiling out or using retouch varnish - I'm sure that some on the forum here will frown and say it's bad practice and increases the risk of yellowing (but I've had a large whisky, so I don't care :p )

Dave

Rosic
02-18-2004, 12:46 AM
Just trying to even up the sheen and bring out the colours - akin to oiling out or using retouch varnish - I'm sure that some on the forum here will frown and say it's bad practice and increases the risk of yellowing (but I've had a large whisky, so I don't care :p )

Dave

Thanks... and Cheers as I lift my glass of Dram Tree Ale to you my friend.
Talk to ya tomorrow...

guillot
02-18-2004, 11:04 AM
Anybody else out there? Tina? Dianne? Stephen? Dana? Ruth? TeAnne?....anyone..........hello...........helllllloooooooo............. :D

Dave

Hi Dave,

This is looking fabulous.

Sorry guys, Matt left pretty big shoes to fill :D I haven't had time to check in. Haven't had time to work on mine any further.

:clap: :clap: :clap: I love what you have going on so far Dave. It really looks wonderful !!

Tina

loop
02-18-2004, 05:03 PM
Hi Loop

Hugely frustrating! What exactly did you prime it with?

Dave


first thing first .... DAVE, that is just a super painting you have so far, I highly doubt you will "ruin" it


I used Gamblin grounds, and I'm sure it's my fault, but the directions said it is very thick (reccomend not to thin) apply with a knife and let dry overnight and give another coat. well this stuff was THICK almost like glaziers putty. in doing some "after the disaster" research on the internet, a reseller's site mentioned to use a clean brush of OMS to smooth out the knifed application....... ohhhhh geeeze I see :mad: so I am not sure if I got a bad batch (it even had a little crust INSIDE the can), or it was just because I am new. I basically bought this product to get a nice smooth finish on streached canvas without having to wait for oil primer to dry. . as an update it is dry (i think) but boy I gots me some sanding to do :(

guillot
02-19-2004, 09:53 AM
Well, good luck loop. I hope all turns out well. Still working on mine too.......

Dave - I'm finding all kinds of opportunities to screw mine up too :D Though I truly and seriously doubt that you will screw yours up!! I like the way yours is coming to life. Beautiful.

Tina

Rosic
02-19-2004, 10:05 AM
Yesterday I worked on tidying up the leaves in "The Mad Ladie's" hair and applying my first glaze... a thin wash of yellow ochre over the skin areas. Nothing drastic worth posting a picture but hope to glaze some more tonight.
Bern

ShivaWolf
02-19-2004, 11:55 AM
WOW everybody's work is soo fantastic.... :clap:
I got caught up in my little girl painting....I better get going on mine :eek:

Rosic
02-20-2004, 09:43 AM
I've been following in Dave's footsteps on this one.

#1
Shaped up leaves in hair and added darker areas to them plus glazed skin area with thin mixture of yellow ochre and Liquin. All my glazes are done with Liquin.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2004/17108-momfeb5.JPG

#2
Next night... glazed leaves... glazed hair with Lamp Black... glazed BG with burnt umber... and glazed skin with mixture of flake white and burnt sienna.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2004/17108-momfeb6.JPG

Enjoying but seeing that this is a slow process.
Bern

guillot
02-20-2004, 08:53 PM
WOW everybody's work is soo fantastic.... :clap:
I got caught up in my little girl painting....I better get going on mine :eek:


I need to get going back on mine too :eek: For sure! I have to work tomorrow :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: I'm so exhausted from this week already :( So, no late night painting for me tonight, but I sure hope to paint some tomorrow afternoon and Sunday.

Bernie :clap: Looking Fantastic !!!!!!!! You guys are ahead of me ;) That's OK - I'll catch up at some point I hope :)

These are all coming along so wonderfully for such a (I think) tough subject. I wish I could see the original, I'm sure that would help tremendously. So, even if we are working from photos (for those of use that do not have the benefit of the originals :D ) I still feel that I'm learning lessons along the way. I'm enjoying these :angel:

Tina

dcorc
02-22-2004, 01:52 PM
Good to see that Bernie is still active - looking good there, Bern!

Hoping there are still some others! It's starting to feel a bit lonely :crying: :)
Tina, keep up the good work! Dianne - I was looking forward to seeing you have a go at the still life element! Loop? Stephen Brearley, Ruth, where are you? I wonder whether Matt is having a go at his, in his new house in deepest scandinavia?

Several sessions later. I've glazed/scumbled as follows:

drapery on left - yellow ochre/ivory black mix, concentrating on creases.

Carafe - 3 glazes - burnt sienna, then ivory black, then cadmium red deep

Skin - white/ochre/vermilion mix

gown - yellow ochre/ivory black mix, only on creases, other areas white restated

green leaves - some areas yellow ochre, then varying degrees of ultramarine glaze, and a glaze of ivory black in shadows

yellow/red fruits - yellow areas in cadmium yellow, red in burnt sienna, then cadmium red deep in some places, shadows in ivory black

background - 2 glazes of Ivory black in places, ochre/ivory black mix on right.

Comments - this represents only about 10-15 minutes each day, as that's about as much as it's possible to do at one go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2004/30792-dcbacc6.jpg

Dave

Rosic
02-22-2004, 04:00 PM
Dave... I cannot thank you enough for being my mentor with this piece...
forever know to me now (thanks to my two year old) as "The Mad Lady". You have guided me through this... were it not for you I fear I may have given up. THANKS!

Working on mine today.

Bern

bcraver
02-23-2004, 03:30 AM
Hi, I have been so inspired by this thread that I decided to try it in pastel. This is my progress so far. I hope this is OK (posting a pastel work into an oil forum project). I wish I had the time to start to learn oils, but January - May my job is absolutely all consuming (I work for our state legislature). Still I am stealing a little time to try this and am finding it quite fascinating. I am trying to work at 100% of the original size, so had to crop to fit in on a piece of Art Spectrum gray paper. So my size is 26 1/2" X 18 1/4".

These are two progress photos. The first with just the charcoal outlines and a few stabs at color. The second is progress so far. I know I have lots to fix but I am having such a good time giving this a shot.

I am quite awestruck at all the wonderful glazing and progress you oil people are doing, but this is quite a great thing to do in pastels also. Hope I can continue to participate if it is allowed!

I hope my attachments arrive . . . can't see it in the preview.

jez_barracude
02-23-2004, 01:41 PM
I have finally started the Caravaggio - I've known since before the month began that there is no way I shall have time to finish it during February, anyhow my objective is to learn as much as I can and have fun along the way. I've been enjoying watching what everyone else has done so far, some really amazing work has been going on here!

I decided to copy the whole image in reduced format - 24" * 28". First of all I did a pencil drawing at about half size to get used to the placement of the objects and what was going on in the murky shadows.
I put a warm brown ground on my canvas, made from burnt umber and a little vermilion hue thinned with a lot of turps. Then I drew a basic outline in chalk (some day I will have to get used to squaring up drawings but the one time I tried it once before it made my drawing very clunky and felt horrible).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2004/32755-cara_draw.jpg

Today I have worked at covering the canvas with a rough underpainting of burnt umber and white. I plan to do at least one more layer of more detailed greys before going for any coloured glazing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2004/32755-cara_pt1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2004/32755-cara_pt2.jpg

DanaT
02-23-2004, 03:27 PM
Finally got back to this. After I post this, I'll have to go back and see how everyone else is doing. I'm loving the glazing process; it reminds me of when I used to do watercolor.

I totally forgot to start the skintones in a grisaille and went straight to opaque color but I think it worked out because I forgot the quick drying medium too. But I followed the principles of the greyscale by choosing three values on the value scale, (6,7,8) and mixing the colors to fall in that range. I also kept the blending to the minimum for this stage to gauge how accurately I had judged the values. So next step refine this, then do head and figure out what to do with the fruit and leaves on the head.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2004/6512-2nd3rdstep.jpg

DanaT
02-23-2004, 03:48 PM
Dave, I really admire you for really using this as an opportunity to learn the old master techniques. I pulled out my cadmiums without a second thought! I wish I had the time to really think about what Caravaggio was doing and try to replicate his process but I'm relatively new to oils and part of me want to just do a successful painting.

I thought about the vermillion but Matt's substitute was cad red mixed with alizarin and that mixture has caused me untold problems with a glaze in another painting so I passed on the vermillion background. I think the problem is that cad. red is not really transparent. I was surprised that you use it successfully in glazes.

I was thinking of Matt too. This is terrible timing for him. The Carravagio painting is so appropriate for the way he's used to painting.

Also thinking of you, Tina. Hope your crazy schedule lets you get back to this.

DanaT
02-23-2004, 03:54 PM
Bernie, yours is looking AWESOME!!! Your skintones are going to just shine when you put the warms on them. :clap:

Your little one is so cute! The Mad Lady LOL See? I told you guys, he must have used the head of a woman for this one. ;)

Glad to see you've joined us, jez_barracuda and bcraver. :)

Rosic
02-24-2004, 03:45 PM
Welcome aboard jez_barracuda and bcraver! :clap:

Dana... thanks for the encouragement... love the texture in yours!

Here's my latest update of the Mad Lady...

Worked mostly on the leaves (about finished with them except for some fine details) and added the grapes. Glazed a third layer over the skin area with a mixture of flake white/cad red/raw sienna/& burnt sienna. The glaze was real thin and I went over some of the shadow areas with burnt sienna. I noticed by the third glaze I was starting to lighten the shadow areas to much... should I avoid these areas when glazing? Glazed lips with a thin layer of cad red. Hope to work a little more warmth into the face and finish the hair tonight.
Bern

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2004/17108-momfeb7.JPG

dcorc
02-24-2004, 04:27 PM
bcraver - welcome! Its interesting to see you having a go at this in pastels, please do continue to post! There's also a thread in Coloured Pencils you might care to have a look at.

Jez - good to see you having a go at this - how detailed do you intend to get with the underpainting? Are you intending to glaze transparently or use the underpainting as an indicator for values, or a bit of both?

Dana - Is your drawing scratched back into the background there? intrigued to see how this develops! Keep on keeping on! :)

Bern - thanks for your kind words! I'm (mostly) trying to avoid shadow areas when doing anything with white in it, or restating them again afterwards. As you say, keep the glazes thin, I think

................................................

I'm doing gradual adjustments on mine, glazing in some shadows in ivory black or ivory black/burnt umber mixes, restating some of the drapery lighter areas by scrubbing on a litle white here and there. Not a lot to show at the moment - I'll do a couple more passes at it over the next day or two, and then post again.

With regard to using cadmium red - I'm keeping all these glazes very thin - it's not the most transparent of colours, it's true, but I'm using W&N alkyds for this throughout, and they are mostly a bit more transparent generally than the equivalent pigments in linseed oil.

One thing very noticeable is that there's quite a bit of dust which accumulates, getting caught up in the surface when one does as many glaze layers as I'm doing here.

Dave

Rosic
02-24-2004, 04:58 PM
One thing very noticeable is that there's quite a bit of dust which accumulates, getting caught up in the surface when one does as many glaze layers as I'm doing here.

Dave
I've found this to be true in my case as well Dave.

DanaT
02-25-2004, 02:12 PM
I lost the subscription to this thread! Glad I checked back here!

Hmm, Bernie. Yes, I can see where you lost some darks but I think its recoverable. Have you tried glazing the shadows just with a thin layer of transparent dark like you did with the lips with no white? I've haven't glazed with white either, don't know how it would work in practice but since its semi opaque, I can see that it would start to make your shadows lighter.

Dave, yes, I scratched the basic shapes in a burnt umber wash for the first layer with a piece of kneaded eraser on the tip of a brush handle. Then rubbed out where the lights were. You can see I didn't get to the leaves and fruit so I'll have to paint them opaquely and then glaze.

I haven't noticed the dust settling on the canvas but I'm storing it upright rather than flat.

jez_barracude
02-25-2004, 02:15 PM
Jez - good to see you having a go at this - how detailed do you intend to get with the underpainting? Are you intending to glaze transparently or use the underpainting as an indicator for values, or a bit of both?
Dave

At the moment my intention is to try some transparent glazing, which I haven't done much before. In practice there may well be some opaque layers over the top too, as my flesh tones tend to get reworked, reworked and reworked... Your gradual buildup of very subtle glazes has been an inspiration to me.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Feb-2004/32755-cara_pt3.jpg

Today I started a second layer of underpainting with ivory black as well as the burnt umber and white, aiming to get a wider tonal range and more detail. I only had time to work part of the figure, as you can see. I've also noticed that the left arm, hand and wineglass need repositioning.

I hope to finish this layer by the end of the month and then continue with the colour layers in the next few weeks.

Jez

guillot
02-25-2004, 02:49 PM
I hope this is OK (posting a pastel work into an oil forum project).

Hi bcraver - glad to have you on board, and I love your rendition of the Carravagio - great job. We kept this out of the project system to prevent other mediums from being instilled into this "monthly activity" because the understanding was that we learn something from the masters from the original composition with as close as we can get to the original materials. But, since you are here, (and we are glad to have you) just don't tell anyone ;) :p Thanks for the participation.

Dana - coming along!!

Dave - your painting is just lovely and inspirational.

Bernie - Wonderful job so far!!

I apologize for my absence - I've been ill for the past few days with only enough energy to drink fluids.

Jez - nice to have you along for the journey as well. Your painting is coming along beautifully as well.

Tina

Rosic
02-26-2004, 06:53 PM
I've been ill for the past few days with only enough energy to drink fluids.
Tina
Hope you are feeling better Tina. :)
B...

guillot
02-26-2004, 10:33 PM
Hi Bernie, yes better thank you :) Missed two days of work over it!! But feeling much better. I'm hoping to get back to mine this weekend !!

Tina

Rosic
02-26-2004, 10:37 PM
Hi Bernie, yes better thank you :) Missed two days of work over it!! But feeling much better. I'm hoping to get back to mine this weekend !!

Tina
Now that is good news! :clap:
I'm almost finished with mine but won't be able to post with an update until Monday... going out of town for a long weekend. ;)
B.

jez_barracude
02-28-2004, 11:05 AM
I've done another couple of sessions on this, and finished the tonal layer. I know there will be no more time for me to work on this this month, so I shall be carrying on next week.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2004/32755-cara_pt4.jpg

I shall be bowing out of the MOM project for a couple of months, I suspect, and will come back in later for some of the other figurative work.

Jez

guillot
02-28-2004, 11:05 AM
Well, this month's MOM is quickly drawing to a close :o And I still have so much to do. Where is everyone else at with their painting? I'm still at the burnt umber stage (which is finished), but still have to do the opaque grays in the skin tones - AND THEN the glazing !!!!!! Time has not been on my side this month :D

Looking forward to painting today :clap:

Hope everyone else is doing OK.

Tina

Jez - Keep us updated on your work!! Was hoping to see you in next month's MOM :( (and the next, and the next, and the next :p ) Your's is coming along great - please post when it's finished.

Tina

Ruth
02-28-2004, 08:43 PM
I guess I'm going to have to call mine finished; I haven't had time or energy to do any more to it. But I've enjoyed it, thanks to all for your participation and input! It's been fun looking in to see what you are doing.

See you soon!
Ruth

DanaT
02-28-2004, 09:22 PM
I'm going to continue with mine. I have the face to lay in and then the leaves fruit, and hair. So hopefully I won't be too late in finishing this one.

Thanks Tina for leading us on this journey. :clap:

guillot
02-28-2004, 09:49 PM
Dana - glad you are going to continue on too. Have you done the grays yet?

Ruth - so glad that you could join in with us. Such a pleasure to see your work. Hope you come along for the journey next month too.

OK, here's an update on mine. I've laid in the grays. I'm pleased with it at this point. Now, I'm going to start laying in some glazes in the leaves, hair, etc. etc. All that's left - glazes :)

Thanks everyone
Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2004/5957-Update_28_FEB_1.jpg

DanaT
02-28-2004, 10:12 PM
Dana - glad you are going to continue on too. Have you done the grays yet?


Well, Tina, if you remember from my last post, I kinda forgot the greys and went straight into color. :rolleyes:

So I'll continue the face in color but use the greys on the leaves and fruit since I didn't get to wipe them out during the wash in. And then add some glazes.

Your Bacchus looks absolutely muscular and the wine jug is really spectacular. You'll have fun with the glazes I'm sure!

edit: Tina, we can still post to this thread after February, right?

guillot
02-29-2004, 02:34 AM
Well, Tina, if you remember from my last post, I kinda forgot the greys and went straight into color. :rolleyes:

So I'll continue the face in color but use the greys on the leaves and fruit since I didn't get to wipe them out during the wash in. And then add some glazes.

Your Bacchus looks absolutely muscular and the wine jug is really spectacular. You'll have fun with the glazes I'm sure!

edit: Tina, we can still post to this thread after February, right?

Hi Dana - yes, that's right. Should work for you that way as well. I forgot :rolleyes: :D Thanks for the comments.

Yes, we can still post after Feb. I'll only be removing the sticky. The thread will still be here to post to. Mine will definitely, most likely, be after the end of the month as well. Getting sick last weekend didn't help me time-wise at all.

Here's another update. I'm having a blast with the glazes :) Lots of fun. Don't know if this picture will do it much justice, since I took this picture tonight (no good light), and it's wet too. Trying to stay away from the grays while they dry, and trying to work on what glazes I can in the mean time.

Here's an update:

Thanks for the guidance, support and encouragement everyone!! Can't wait to see everyone's finished pieces ;)

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Feb-2004/5957-Feb_28_glazing.jpg

guillot
02-29-2004, 04:32 AM
I'm being a night owl :D

Here's my last update - I've got to go to bed. I really love this process. I'm having a lot of fun with it, and I'm learning so much.

Thanks,
Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Feb-2004/5957-Update_29_FEB_glazing2.jpg

guillot
02-29-2004, 02:50 PM
I'm beginning to feel very alone everyone! :D Where are you guys?

Here's a better pic (sorry for the glare), taken outside. I've worked in glazes of darker greens, yellows and reds, the carafe I used Aliz Crimson and Ivory black - same for glass in hand.

Is it looking OK? Anything stand out?

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Feb-2004/5957-Update_29_FEB_2_outside2.jpg

DanaT
02-29-2004, 03:23 PM
Looking good Tina. How did you like the way Ivory Black behaves in the glazes?

I'm working on mine some today. Prolly post tomorrow. I'm finding it really hard to get a decent pic with the glare from the glazes.

dcorc
02-29-2004, 08:19 PM
No need to feel lonely, Tina! - its looking great, really coming together with those coloured glazes.

Dana, Bernie - looking forward to your postings of your progress, hopefully monday? I'll hopefully be posting my next image then too.

Dave

guillot
03-01-2004, 08:54 AM
Hi Dana - The ivory black handles well. Just seems to dry a bit darker than when it initially goes on. It is hard to get a good picture with the glazes and all!! Hope everything's going well with you.

Dave - Thank you!! I'm really enjoying this process and learning a lot from it. I probably will not have an update for mine until tomorrow or Wednesday. The grays should be dry (I'm on my way out the door to work and haven't had a chance to check), and I should be able to finish it up between today and tomorrow. I need to go back over some glazes - I want a little more depth in some of the colors.

Thanks all - a wonderful adventure it has been once again :)

Tina

Rosic
03-01-2004, 09:51 AM
Jez and Tina... both of yours is coming along nicely. I love watching this one unfold in the many different layers.

Dave and Dana... I look forward to seeing your updates soon.

Here is mine... I think it's done unless you guys point out something major you think I need to work on. Sorry about the poor picture (A lot of reflections) but I hope to get a better one and post it with what I learned from this one on Wednesday if not sooner. Guess I'll start MOM#3 on Wednesday also.
Bern

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2004/17108-momfeb9a.JPG

guillot
03-01-2004, 07:15 PM
Bernie,

Thanks. I really like your interpretation of the painting!! I think it looks beautiful. I like watching the painting unfold too through these glazes. Fascinating. I'm hoping to start #3 Wednesday too - hoping to be finished with this one too but it's not looking like it so far :p It's so difficult for me to find time during the week between work and kids and dinner and baths - but I'm going to try to make time this week.


Tina

Rosic
03-01-2004, 07:36 PM
Bernie,
It's so difficult for me to find time during the week between work and kids and dinner and baths - but I'm going to try to make time this week.
Tina
You and I are "Birds of a feather" dear... ;)

Rosic
03-02-2004, 12:07 AM
I'm officially finished with "Bacchus" better known to me as "The Mad Lady" ! I want to thank everyone for their help... especially Dave, Dana, and Tina. ;)

I learned a lot from this painting and it has boosted my confidence. I can honestly say I have found a home with oils!

I liked working with the glazing technique and was surprised at the ease of it. Time consumption however is another story. I think next time I use glazes I will work on several paintings at once to use my time more efficiently. I love how the colors almost glow... you can really see it on my original. This photo doesn't do this piece justice :( but it is much better than my previous post.

Click this link to view all my progression shots in succession to see the effect of glazing. Rosic's progression stages of Caravaggio project. (http://localhost:1095/Homesteads/_1750500149/bacchus.html)

Thanks again everyone... off to start this months project! :D
Bernie

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2004/17108-momfeb9big.JPG

Rosic
03-02-2004, 10:22 AM
Sorry about the bad link above... Here's the good one to see the effects of glazing.
Rosic's progression stages of Caravaggio project. (http://artworkbyrosic.homestead.com/bacchus.html)

guillot
03-03-2004, 12:30 AM
Hey Bernie, great job. Love your rendition of the "mad lady". :D Like your progression shots too! Does it feel good to have this one behind you?

I've always appreciated the effects of glazing - the way the colors glow, and the depth and atmosphere that can be achieved. And I must say I don't believe it's ever went this well for me (getting the "desired" effect that I've been able to capture here). And, it is difficult to get a good picture to capture that essence. Glad that you feel you have found a home in oils, although it was there all along ;) Happy that you are Happy. I'm so proud of all of us - this one was a difficult task - and we made it, :) (well me, almost ;) Still struggling and juggling the time ).

See you --

Tina

guillot
03-03-2004, 07:32 PM
Well, I was hoping to post the finished piece today, but alas.... all I can show is an update. I'm still not finished. Here I've done some more glazing work, and applied one velutura of Yellow Ochre, French Vermillion, and medium. Amazing just one coat will do. But, still needs some work, and I had something strange happen in a couple of spots :) (I think I can fix those). But, anyway - here is at least, an update:

How is it looking?

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2004/5957-Update_3_Mar_outside_1.jpg

Rosic
03-03-2004, 09:58 PM
Oh Tina... you have got to be pleased with this! You perseverance has paid off... superb! What size is this?
Bern

dcorc
03-03-2004, 10:12 PM
Bernie - very nice, and presented on a very elegant webpage too !

Tina - coming together beautifully - what's happening in those "couple of spots" that are "strange"?

Dana - how's it coming?

Photographs really don't do glazes justice, do they? You've got to see paintings done like this personally, to fully appreciate them.

I've lost impetus on my own version last week, I'm busy tomorrow, but have some free time on friday and at the weekend so hope to get back to it then and complete it.

Dave

Rosic
03-03-2004, 10:21 PM
Photographs really don't do glazes justice, do they? You've got to see paintings done like this personally, to fully appreciate them.
Dave
This is so true!

Dave... I look forward to seeing yours and Dana's.

guillot
03-03-2004, 10:43 PM
Bernie - It's a 22 x 28 canvas. Thanks for the comments. Preserverance - learned lots of that from this months!! :D

Dave - The strange spots: I think what happened is that I scrubbed just a bit too hard, pulled up the underlayer and it left the white of the canvas. When I went back over it, the velatura kind of gobbed up there. When I wiped - It looked worse, of course. But, I think another coat will fix. Here's a pic of the area I'm talking about if it will show up well enough (at his nipple and just above that area):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2004/5957-strange_spots.jpg

Now, I've worked the skin tones some more - over the whole body and it's not showing up as bad. I believe I've learned what I can from this at this point - but at the same time I'm anxious to see it's total completion as well. Here's where I am, and I think maybe one more sitting should do it...

Thanks for the support - you guys are great.

Came back to edit - the neck area is bothering me - but I think I can fix that too.

Dana, how is your's coming along?

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2004/5957-Update_3_Mar_2_night.jpg

loop
03-04-2004, 10:35 AM
Bernie - It's a 22 x 28 canvas. Thanks for the comments. Preserverance - learned lots of that from this months!! :D

Dave - The strange spots: I think what happened is that I scrubbed just a bit too hard, pulled up the underlayer and it left the white of the canvas. When I went back over it, the velatura kind of gobbed up there. When I wiped - It looked worse, of course. But, I think another coat will fix. Here's a pic of the area I'm talking about if it will show up well enough (at his nipple and just above that area):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2004/5957-strange_spots.jpg

Now, I've worked the skin tones some more - over the whole body and it's not showing up as bad. I believe I've learned what I can from this at this point - but at the same time I'm anxious to see it's total completion as well. Here's where I am, and I think maybe one more sitting should do it...

Thanks for the support - you guys are great.

Came back to edit - the neck area is bothering me - but I think I can fix that too.

Dana, how is your's coming along?

Tina

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2004/5957-Update_3_Mar_2_night.jpg


wow this is turning out stupendous, the glazing is really working well for you, I wish I would not have missed out on this one....my canvas is finally ready, but...no time :crying:

guillot
03-04-2004, 07:43 PM
Whoops.........

guillot
03-04-2004, 07:46 PM
:D


Hi Loop,

thanks for the nice comments. This was definitely challenging for me, but I've enjoyed it. Are you going to do next months? It's more direct painting than this technique. I still see all sorts of things wrong with this one, but I feel I've learned what I can from it. I'm going to work a little on it here and there till it's completely finished and I've really struggled with time in February. As a matter of fact, I'll probably be struggling with time in March too :( But - I'm learning soooooooooo much from doing these. Different techniques and methods, more about colors, values and tones ... so it's worth it to me!!!!

Hope to see you there :)

Tina

jez_barracude
03-05-2004, 12:48 PM
I've now done a little bit of glazing. Yes, I do know he has a slight case of yellow fever :) All I've done with the flesh is a glaze of yellow and red, I am taking a breather before figuring out how to make the subtle flesh tones with these semi-opaque glazes. I don't want to lose all the underpainting modelling as soon as I get a bit of white on.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Mar-2004/32755-cara_pt5.jpg

Jez

guillot
03-06-2004, 09:07 AM
I've now done a little bit of glazing. Yes, I do know he has a slight case of yellow fever :) Jez

LOL Jez - that's exactly what I thought with the first velatura of skin tints - my guy looked fairly ill. Another layer will prove worthy - at least it did for me. You're doing a wonderful job - keep at it!!

Tina

dcorc
03-06-2004, 09:34 AM
Jez - looking good - first skintone glazes always look make the subject look sickly in my experience, just carry on - keep it all very thin so it's translucent - bit of paint, bit of medium, mix, small amount on a soft brush, spread it as far as you can make it go, blend edges of patch if needed with a soft dry brush.

Tina - I'd guess that in the "odd spots" you're lifting the previous layer because it hasn't dried sufficiently - that's why I'm using alkyds and liquin, as it allows me to speed along, confident that 24 hours drying is always enough.

I'm doing some final glazes and adjustments, mainly with ivory black at this stage. Even with the alkyds, this final process is painfully slow as it's a series of lots of small tweeks.

Dave

jez_barracude
03-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Leaves in the hair and green fruit were glazed with a very thin layer of cadmium yellow (I feel that this is a bit of a cheat, but necessary to get them to look less dull - does anyone know what yellows brighter than ochre might have been available to Caravaggio?)

Dave

Did anyone ever come up with a "period" bright yellow? I couldn't find any response later in this thread. I too tried lots of mixes yesterday with yellow ochre, raw sienna and naples yellow before giving up and putting a tiny bit of cadmium yellow on the fruits in the front of the bowl. It's the only way I could get them bright enough.

Jez

jez_barracude
03-11-2004, 09:38 AM
Still finding these velaturas scary. I put some raw sienna and alizarin crimson over my burnt umber and white underpainting of the flesh tones, by which time I had built up quite a lot of modelling and colour. Today I added the first layer with white in it - the mixes are of zinc white, yellow ochre and vermilion. As I feared I have immediately lost tons of tonal values and Bacchus looks like he is now wearing stage makeup. I hope this will go away as I add more layers. Was my idea of putting some translucent colour on first before adding the white mixes pointless?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2004/32755-cara_pt6.jpg

Jez

dcorc
03-11-2004, 09:59 AM
Still finding these velaturas scary. ....Today I added the first layer with white in it ....As I feared I have immediately lost tons of tonal values and Bacchus looks like he is now wearing stage makeup.....Was my idea of putting some translucent colour on first before adding the white mixes pointless?

Putting on the translucent colours isn't a waste, but I'd keep the amount of white to the merest smidgen. The way I use white here is to add just a tiny bit so that it scatters the light a little from preceding layers which can be used to even things out a bit (like using makeup - but not stage makeup!)

If you think its gone too far, it might be worth wiping it back and reapplying with less white in the mix, or more medium.

Dave

jez_barracude
03-12-2004, 05:12 PM
Thanks Dave!
I wiped off some of the offending opaque stuff and put another layer with far less white pigment in it on today, and it seems to be back on track. I took some pictures but they somehow all came out too glaring, so I may update in a few more glazes' time.
Jez

guillot
03-13-2004, 11:19 AM
Hi Jez - it's coming along well. I'm trying to think of when I used white in my mix. I know I did on the grisaille (the only opaque area on the canvas after applying the grisaille), but only a tiny tad of a bit on the skin tone velaturas. The idea being to "tint" the grisaille, and rubbing and wiping back some if necessary as I worked, and then refining with some transparent glazes. I did the same thing with the toga, which probably had more white than anything else. I also tried to maintain some of the lights in the background by wiping to where it was only just barely tinting the canvas in areas for the light when I did the initial burnt umber wash. Then the transparent glazes allowed that to show through and I really like that affect!! Not one smidget of white anywhere in that background!! I don't know if that will help you or not :) - but it was the way I worked mine if it is any help to you.

Good luck - keep painting!! :) :angel:

Tina

Papierstars
03-16-2004, 08:20 PM
This was all so fascinating to read. How wonderful to be able to watch the progression of your artwork come along. I couldn't go to bed last night until I had finished reading through this entire thread. You all did so well and at such a difficult project. Being a newbie to oils I wanted to let you know that I learned a great deal. Thanks to everyone to took out the time to explain your process, you are very much appreciated :clap:
~River

dcorc
03-16-2004, 08:29 PM
Hi River

thanks from us all!

I'm not quite finished mine yet, but the adjustments are all individually so slight now that they're not worth posting. I'll do one final post of it when it's complete, which I suspect will still be as much as a further 2-3 weeks yet (though I'm only spending about 5 mins a day on it at this point, mainly doing very localised thin dark glazes).

Dave

jocko500
05-02-2013, 09:04 PM
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