classical paintings with subliminal skulls????

[OCELOTL]

Can anyone help me!!!I'm looking for a specific painting for reference, but I
can't remember the painters or paintings name.
The painting had the typical subject matter of the time, (but for the life of me I can't remember what the subject was), but in a section or two, there's a wierd puff of smoke. It looks like smoke when you look at it head on, but when the viewer stands on the side and sees the "smoke" from this foreshortened angle, you can see it's actually a skull. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

HELP!!! It's driving me insane.

Gabe

[Matt Sammekull]

Could it be Holbein's "The ambassadors"? The skull is painted with Ananmorphism applied.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2004/15549-Hans_Holbein._The_Ambassadors._1533._Oil_on_wood._National_Gallery,_London.jpg

//matt

[Eugene Veszely]

Very strange...Id like to see that in the flesh...

[OCELOTL]

Could it be Holbein's "The ambassadors"? The skull is painted with Ananmorphism applied.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2004/15549-Hans_Holbein._The_Ambassadors._1533._Oil_on_wood._National_Gallery,_London.jpg

//matt


Yes Matt, that's the one. Thanks a million.

Gabe :clap:

[dcorc]

And by the magic of Photoshop:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2004/30792-Holbeindistorted.jpg

Dave

[WFMartin]

What am I missing? It looks like a guy and a gal kissing, to me. The shape of the background may be rather skull shaped, but certainly not the subject within it.

Just my opinion.

Bill ;)

[dcorc]

With a little bit more straightening up in Photoshop:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2004/30792-holbskull.jpg

Dave

[Eugene Veszely]

What am I missing? It looks like a guy and a gal kissing, to me. The shape of the background may be rather skull shaped, but certainly not the subject within it.

Just my opinion.

Bill ;)


What are yo looking at !?! :confused:

[WFMartin]

1chameleon,

Great! Now, in Photoshop, rotate it 90degrees counterclockwise! Voila!....A couple, kissing, no? Or, at least, embracing. I was actually looking my interpretation of this image at 90 degrees to what you are. And, that's what I was looking at.

Bill ;)

[dcorc]

1chameleon,

Great! Now, in Photoshop, rotate it 90degrees counterclockwise! Voila!....A couple, kissing, no? Or, at least, embracing. I was actually looking my interpretation of this image at 90 degrees to what you are. And, that's what I was looking at.

Bill ;)

you mean this bit?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2004/30792-Holbeindistorted2.jpg

Dave

[Jim]

Yep, pretty wild indeed!
It's almost as though the artist was puposely trying to create an optical illusion to stimulate more attention to his work.
It does look like a skull and...it also can be seen as a couple embracing (within the skull-shaped area-as pointed out)
After looking closer at the skull, it occured to me that the nasel holes within the skull should be much darker no? That would, at least in my mind solidify the skull theory. Being as how they (the holes) aren't shaded in,makes me feel that the illusion may be viewed either way and in fact whatever meaning the artist has intended the viewer to see by rendering the area that way, it remains that two different meanings may be attainable due to the purposeful vagueness of the form(s) in question. That's just how I see it though.
Click here (http://www.teachnet.com/powertools/entertain/puzzles/001907illusions/illusion1.html) to check out some other examples of illusions to understand what I'm talking about.
The artist may not have even been trying for an illusion at all and the area; just by the way the brush strokes were rendered turned out to hold an illusion...all by itself....oooooooooooo....erieeee huh? Personally, and I'll shut up now, I think it was created purposefully by the artist; in order to create controversy.
Either way, very cool.

[Matt Sammekull]

Hi.

Holbein painted this in 1533, and the two gentlemen are ambassadors of France, painted in London, UK.

The skull, which should be viewed (in his own words) coming from right, at a distance of 2 meters, on the same eyelevel as the ambassadors, was painted as a reflection of the times these men were facing. In fact, the painting is filled with hints of that particular era.

The Ambassadors mission was to prevent the separation between the the english and the church in Rome. Times in Europe were very hard in the 16th century. I doubt they even had Internet access or MTV.

//matt

[dcorc]

The painting is at the National Gallery in London UK. I seem to recall (it's a while since I saw it) that there's actually a wide notch cut into the right side of the frame so that the skull can be viewed from the correct angle.

There's quite an interesting analysis of the symbolism of the painting at
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/ARTH214/Ambassadors_Home.html
including a view of the skull from the side see:
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/ARTH214/skull.html
and
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/Ambassadors/skull_anam.jpg

Dave

[Eugene Veszely]

I see the couple now :)

[WFMartin]

you mean this bit?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2004/30792-Holbeindistorted2.jpg

Dave

Dave,

Yeah!!

Bill :)