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View Full Version : Keyword Spamming~ One of Ours?


TeAnne
01-14-2004, 03:20 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3652460709&category=31346

Highlight the bottom area. :eek:

timelady
01-14-2004, 03:42 PM
Most definitely keyword spamming. Is this one of ours? No wc in the auction itself. I'd be more concerned about that copyright infringement in the image banner myself (clearly from screenshots of Pirates of the Caribbean).

Tina.

TeAnne
01-14-2004, 03:45 PM
OUCH! He is one of ours. :( I sent him a PM letting him know that he could get reported by someone. :(
He hangs out here.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1921322#post1921322

madmum
01-14-2004, 03:54 PM
Are we sure it's the same Zarathustra? Yes, they're English, but no mention of WC anywhere?

madmum
01-14-2004, 03:58 PM
They aren't even selling their own art, according to the auctions. Anthony Stewart isn't WC's Zarathustra's name, I know that for sure.

madmum
01-14-2004, 03:59 PM
OH dear :( yes it does look like our Z. Somebody called him Gav in the feedback.

TeAnne
01-14-2004, 04:03 PM
Are we sure it's the same Zarathustra? Yes, they're English, but no mention of WC anywhere?
He admitted to me Mum :(

Wayne Gaudon
01-14-2004, 04:42 PM
Glad you posted this .. I didn't know you could hide stuff using the same colors and according to eBay it is quite ok as long as all the wording is withing their boundries. Too cool .. less for the viewer to read but more for the search engine.

Zarathustra
01-14-2004, 04:50 PM
I can resolve the mystery... Yes, that is my e.bay alias, and yes some of the auctions have keywords. The prime reason was once upon a time, all my auctions were produced in Macromedia Flash and with it being flash I got into a habit of adding keywords in HTML, as obviously the e.bay system is unable to decipher text from flash.
I can honestly say I had no idea this was referred to as 'spamming', and I also had no idea it was against e.bay policy. The keyword listing was always a technique taught to me from my first days as a former website designer. Rest assured now I know it is against policy, I shan't be using it again the in future.

As to the 'screenshot' of Pirates of the Carabbean etc... it is actually a painting - the whole banner is composed of paintings. Very few are actually my own creations with the exception of a couple of oils, because I simply don't have the time to physically paint that many. As to the ethics on selling art that is based on popular films / musicians etc; I have to confess my guilt to that. Sometimes idealisation takes a backstep when you're struggling to make a living, but I don't intend to keep at it for long. I'm hoping to regain employment soon (fingers crossed). I don't think I need to tell anybody here how hard it is to scrape the pennies together once e.bay/paypal fees are paid up and artist's have taken their commissions. Sorry to anyone it has caused offence to.

madmum
01-14-2004, 04:51 PM
Actually, Wayne, it's keyword spamming and eBay don't approve at all when you deliberately add long lists of popular search terms to your descriptions like this.

Lady Rando
01-14-2004, 04:54 PM
This is from ebay on spamming:

Hidden HTML text. Sellers may include hidden text (for example "white on white") or source tags (meta or header tags), however such text may not include keywords unrelated to the item listing or to promote your other items. Keywords "hidden" within the title, description or through other means are not allowed. Such deliberate attempts at keyword spamming may result in suspension without prior warning.

If you use words that pertain to your auction then apparently it is okay. Interesting.

madmum
01-14-2004, 04:54 PM
I can resolve the mystery... Yes, that is my e.bay alias, and yes some of the auctions have keywords. The prime reason was once upon a time, all my auctions were produced in Macromedia Flash and with it being flash I got into a habit of adding keywords in HTML, as obviously the e.bay system is unable to decipher text from flash.
I can honestly say I had no idea this was referred to as 'spamming', and I also had no idea it was against e.bay policy. The keyword listing was always a technique taught to me from my first days as a former website designer. Rest assured now I know it is against policy, I shan't be using it again the in future.

As to the 'screenshot' of Pirates of the Carabbean etc... it is actually a painting - the whole banner is composed of paintings. Very few are actually my own creations with the exception of a couple of oils, because I simply don't have the time to physically paint that many. As to the ethics on selling art that is based on popular films / musicians etc; I have to confess my guilt to that. Sometimes idealisation takes a backstep when you're struggling to make a living, but I don't intend to keep at it for long. I'm hoping to regain employment soon (fingers crossed). I don't think I need to tell anybody here how hard it is to scrape the pennies together once e.bay/paypal fees are paid up and artist's have taken their commissions. Sorry to anyone it has caused offence to.

Z, I think TeAnne was more concerned than finger-pointing. I'm glad her warning has set you right and you won't be risking ebay pulling your auctions (we have reported non-wc ebayers for spamming, but wouldn't do it with one of our own ;) )

Good luck with your job hunt!

Ruth

Zarathustra
01-14-2004, 05:14 PM
The keywords I use are relative to what I am selling. Often I reuse the same HTML template and forget they are there, so occasionally keywords appear in the wrong category, or some keywords get appended to older ones. I'd never intentionally "spam" with words that were completely irrelevant, and hopefully my auctions still fall within the e.bay rules. Still better to stay on the safer side of the fence.
I did read about "shilling" once (seller's bidding on themselves!), but even shillers get a second chance according to e.bay rules.

Wayne Gaudon
01-14-2004, 05:30 PM
I beg to differ on a friendly note.
.. it's right in the rules if you read them.

Hidden HTML text. Sellers may include hidden text (for example "white on white") or source tags (meta or header tags), however such text may not include keywords unrelated to the item listing or to promote your other items. Keywords "hidden" within the title, description or through other means are not allowed. Such deliberate attempts at keyword spamming may result in suspension without prior warning.

note .. you can hide them as long as they relate to the item ..
There is nothing wrong with this.

I paint impressionistic, expressionistic, realistic paintings based on my learning from the influence of Monet, Manet, Van Gogh, and countless others who used their command of oil painting to exploit the sensual color relationships, etc. I create oil paintings using top grade artistic oil paint panels varnish and other professional mediums.
etc .etc as long as it relates to the item being sold ..

You cannot use company names and non related items like .. I don't sell nudes when listing a landscape.

Lady Rando
01-14-2004, 05:34 PM
Wayne, I believe I just quoted the same thing ...lol :D :p

Wayne Gaudon
01-14-2004, 05:39 PM
LOL .. you type faster than I do.

Zarathustra
01-14-2004, 05:40 PM
That's a little unfortunate, and perhaps I should have read the e.bay small print for myself, but with the implied impending threat of having my seller status revoked (and I know it wasn't given to me in a malicious way, but for my own benefit), I immediately closed some of the auctions (inc. those with bids). Now it would seem that needn't of been the case as my keywords were relevant, within e.bay rules, and therefore permitable.
Well, I guess it's a learning experience.

TeAnne
01-14-2004, 06:38 PM
hmmmmmm It's a darn mess this ebay policy!
Now tis I who must apologize to you Z, if what is said above is true and you had to pull perfectly good auctions. *sigh* I just didn't want to see a fellow WCer get into trouble, like I said to you in PM. Personally though, I wouldn't hide text of any kind in the auction (witch hunters, don't don't care who you are or what you say) Just to be on the safe side.

TeAnne
01-14-2004, 06:42 PM
I'm still concerned Z
Some of these words do not pertain to certain paintings in your auctions.
victorian nude, tasteful nude, erotic, erotica, art, contemporary nude, female nude, naked, original artwork, dark, gothic, horror, unusual art, contemporary art, modern art, portrait, anders zorn, constable, impressionist, impressionism, rolf on art, gottfried helnwein, fantasy art, nude art, vintage, naked, carvaggio, titian, rubens, painting techniques, no reserve, n/r, salvador dali, picasso, signed art
Sorry, now I'm nit picking and trying to understand. What do some of these keywords have to do with Jean Paul?
jean paul sartre, french philosopher, philosophy, death and dying, existentialism, existential, nietzsche, heideggar, jacques derrida, original artwork, dark, gothic, horror, unusual art, contemporary art, modern art, portrait, anders zorn, constable, impressionist, impressionism, rolf on art, gottfried helnwein, fantasy art, nude art, vintage, naked, carvaggio, titian, rubens, painting techniques, no reserve, n/r, salvador dali, picasso, signed art

Salairawns
01-14-2004, 08:42 PM
I immediately closed some of the auctions (inc. those with bids). Now it would seem that needn't of been the case as my keywords were relevant, within e.bay rules, and therefore permitable.
Well, I guess it's a learning experience.

You didn't have to close the auctions. You could have clicked on Edit this Auction and simply deleted the words you didn't want. After editing, click resubmit; there's no additional fees for editing the text.

jocelynsart
01-14-2004, 11:11 PM
I don't think you can Edit once there are bids.
Joss

Zarathustra
01-15-2004, 02:02 AM
Those words do not entirely relate to Jean Paul Sartre, though they are within an "art/painting" category alongside an existential philosopher theme. All the first words are relevant, and many of the latter, but as you can read in my previous thread, sometimes keywords get appended to others accidentally because they're hidden and I can't physically see them on a WYSIWYG editor. Even on the acrylic painting auction you will see that some of the keywords are in capitals whilst others are not - the capital letters got left behind from other auctions that they were specifically intended for.
Okay, I should have checked it properly, but it was a "free listing" day and I was in a rush to get them online that day, and did not have the time to check every little bit of HTML code alas.
And Joss is right, you can't edit once you have bids (you can only append), which is why I had to then cancel the bid, write to the customer to explain why and then close the auction all because I'm told with some conviction that I'm breaking policy and e.bay could well be informed.
TeAnne, what I don't understand is, if this is for "my" benefit and you had strong suspicions this seller was me (hence the title of your thread, and the PM's etc.) - why did you run to the board to post this, to tell everybody about a 'bad' man?
I strongly dislike spammers - they are people who ruin the Internet for people when they come up with completely irrelevant web pages in search engines. I've never once, had an intention to "SPAM" people, so having this thread and the attention brought to me is more than I would have liked. I also like to keep my private selling affairs separate and distinct from E.bay, in part because much of what I sell is not my own art, or is not even art related most of the time. I realise wetcanvas is a great and supportive community for those who sell their art online, but I hope you can respect that to me these business affairs are private and irrelevant to what I do in these forums.

What's done is done. As I said before, I think there are lessons to be learnt for everyone, and I hope I shan't have to reply on the defensive side to justify myself to the people of WC. I feel like I've been put on trial! :eek:

Personally I'd be happier for the thread to be deleted or at best closed.

TeAnne
01-15-2004, 03:35 AM
Well Zar, if you want to keep to yourself, don't put words in your auction that will come up when peeps are searching for other stuff.
Yes, I was looking out for you okay! YES, I RAN to the board for help/verification that you were WC! so that I could for worn you so that you wouldn't get into trouble! In the mean time, I found it was you and PM'ed you!
Don't make ME feel guilty for trying to do the right thing!
I'll just let the "Witch hunters" get you next time. They don't ask questions!
Pardon me for caring!

timelady
01-15-2004, 04:55 AM
We didn't report your auction - we were just on the lookout and wanted to find you! As for the specific eBay rules - words that do not pertain to *that specific auction* are considered keyword spamming. The rule is not about what category you list in or what other items you sell. You can check out the specifics on eBay's help boards.

I will close the thread by request of several members so it doesn't turn into a witchhunt. But I am keeping the thread in the forum because it's a good discussion about the keywords rules. They are the type of violation that some 'reporters' on eBay like to search for!

Tina.