Degree Question

[animus.creator]

I am thinking of getting my AA in Studio Art and then transferring to a University to get my BA in Education and then my Masters in Fine Arts...is there a better path maybe?

[pinkbubelz]

Currently I work at a university that's #1 in the nation for the Education Department....

If you plan to go into teaching, You may be better off going to a 4-year university right off the bat. OR, if you do decide to go the Community College route, make sure that you contact the 4-yr school to find out what credits will transfer.

Generally, if you plan to transfer to the 4-yr school, they will expect you to have taken your "general education courses" (for a liberal arts college-- that is: math, science, english, social science, foreign languages)-- very similar to what a 4-yr university expects from a student just entering from high school.

The reason why I would discourage you from going to get an AA in studio art is that for Education majors, the majority of your courses will be in "methods classes" (teaching how to do something vs. doing it). I got my BFA and thought about going back for a teaching certification. It was at that time that they told me only 3 credits out of 60 of my art classes would apply for a degree in Art Education. Since I do not want to go back for essentially a 2nd bachelors degree, I am going to seek the route of getting a MA or MFA and teach at a college vs. K-12 level...

Does that make any sense? Depending on the 4-yr school, you may not even have to have a portfolio if you plan to become a K-12 teacher.

Feel free to PM me-- I can give you some specific info about the university I work at. (I'm in admissions.)

--Iris

[baquitania]

I tool an accelerated Art Teacher's program in NYC in 1995. However this was at my art college almamater, and I had all the previous art requirements as well as liberal studies. What I didn't have and what they were going to give me were child pyschology classes, k-12 teaching courses, and immeditate student teaching. Let me say that the program was very hard, however I believe what you should be asking yourself is this...

What kind of Art Teacher do you want to be?

On what level do you wish to teach, K-6th, Mid level, High School, College?

Most importantly, what will you be teaching these kids?

I found that the system from other schools (people I took state requirement tests with, and interviewed for the same jobs with) were producing a carbon copy cookie cutter zombie. One that fit into the Community more then they brought anything to it. What I mean by this is, you won't be teaching people to draw from those institutions. You'll be student teaching most likely under a retiring art teacher, who you'll be lucky to still have a room to teach art in... Art & Music are the first things cut from school budgets, and if they keep the art, you get a storeroom and a cart to take from room to room.

If you get really lucky and find a community with money, look at the work that was produced from the last graduating class, does any of it want to make you puke? I know I am ranting here a bit, but I strongly feel that great art teachers are a needle in a haystack. That, what is out there are homeroom teachers who do CRAFTS, and if I see another still life done in pasta I am gonna scream.

Inspiration. Vision. Creativity. Life.

These are the things all good art evokes, and these are the things we should be teaching, not how to draw cows with construction paper, and certainly not anything that is in my opinion 60 years out of date from the students (generation gap? can you say popsicle crack house?), and what might as well be 100 years from anything artistically gratifying or inspiring.

Don't become an art teacher to fill the world with Halloween Paper Plates, you are adding to a growing human being's persona, their potential to create! Showing them the beauty of how men, women and whole cultures "chiseled" out their take on their day to day existence...

Yes 98% of them will NOT become artists, 80% may never ever even think Art is important, but if you become the kind of teacher that gives them that first spark... they will learn appreciation, how important their vision is of their surroundings, that their ideas can be made tangible with color, and form, and line, and not glue and glitter.

Okay end of rant...

An AA studio program will give you 2 years to learn the basics, and probably fill you with more "p-babble" then I have here, but this is an important, underpaid, under appreciated job, that you have to LOVE in order to do right. Good Luck, and I apologize for being dramatic.

Bobby

[pinkbubelz]

I tool an accelerated Art Teacher's program in NYC in 1995. However this was at my art college almamater, and I had all the previous art requirements as well as liberal studies. What I didn't have and what they were going to give me were child pyschology classes, k-12 teaching courses, and immeditate student teaching. Let me say that the program was very hard, however I believe what you should be asking yourself is this...

What kind of Art Teacher do you want to be?

On what level do you wish to teach, K-6th, Mid level, High School, College?

Most importantly, what will you be teaching these kids?

I found that the system from other schools (people I took state requirement tests with, and interviewed for the same jobs with) were producing a carbon copy cookie cutter zombie. One that fit into the Community more then they brought anything to it. What I mean by this is, you won't be teaching people to draw from those institutions. You'll be student teaching most likely under a retiring art teacher, who you'll be lucky to still have a room to teach art in... Art & Music are the first things cut from school budgets, and if they keep the art, you get a storeroom and a cart to take from room to room.

If you get really lucky and find a community with money, look at the work that was produced from the last graduating class, does any of it want to make you puke? I know I am ranting here a bit, but I strongly feel that great art teachers are a needle in a haystack. That, what is out there are homeroom teachers who do CRAFTS, and if I see another still life done in pasta I am gonna scream.

Inspiration. Vision. Creativity. Life.

These are the things all good art evokes, and these are the things we should be teaching, not how to draw cows with construction paper, and certainly not anything that is in my opinion 60 years out of date from the students (generation gap? can you say popsicle crack house?), and what might as well be 100 years from anything artistically gratifying or inspiring.

Don't become an art teacher to fill the world with Halloween Paper Plates, you are adding to a growing human being's persona, their potential to create! Showing them the beauty of how men, women and whole cultures "chiseled" out their take on their day to day existence...

Yes 98% of them will NOT become artists, 80% may never ever even think Art is important, but if you become the kind of teacher that gives them that first spark... they will learn appreciation, how important their vision is of their surroundings, that their ideas can be made tangible with color, and form, and line, and not glue and glitter.

Okay end of rant...

An AA studio program will give you 2 years to learn the basics, and probably fill you with more "p-babble" then I have here, but this is an important, underpaid, under appreciated job, that you have to LOVE in order to do right. Good Luck, and I apologize for being dramatic.

Bobby

Bobby, I do agree, that it is important to look at what type of teaching that animus is looking into doing--I, myself, have decided that I would rather do more ART, than crafts, and to work with older students (CC or University) who have a desire to do artwork for the future....

That is why I plan to attend graduate school for a MFA vs. re-taking a whole undergrad curriculum.

HOWEVER, there IS value to inspiring children to learn about and appreciate art, even if it is done in macaroni or glitter. (Obviously, if you are teaching a 7th - 12th grade student, you will be doing things differently than a pre-school or K-6 teacher). Part of the learning process and the development of a child is to allow them time to be creative and to express themselves in a media other than verbal or written communication. Some children that are very shy and introverted do a lot of expression through their artwork. It isn't all about just learning a craft, there are concepts of value that are learned through the on-hands process...

Most people looking for a BA in education are those who plan to teach at the K-12 level. The reason why I encourage going directly to the 4-year is that some loss of credits WILL occur when transferring from CC to 4-yr... Also, if you are at the 4-Yr to begin with, you will most likely be expected to take "electives" and you can do so by taking other art classes. It isn't only about methods classes.

If I had chosen to get a BA in Education WHILE I was in college, I would not have had to re-take so many courses. I was pursuing this idea about 5 yrs AFTER receiving my degree and because of that, I could not transfer as many courses from my original degree (also, it was at a different university).

The bottom line IMHO is this: Each teacher brings in his or her own unique vision to the table. YOU, as the teacher, CAN bring your values and ideas about art to the students (within reason of course-- I doubt that anyone will allow you to show students pictures of Maplethorpe's nudes at the K-12 level).... YOU (as the teacher) can be the inspiration and the spring board to further knowledge... YOU just have to view HOW you do it differently than the average "cookie cutter".

The universities have to do a "cookie cutter" approach, so that they teachers have a strong foundation to work with....In other words, they provide the recipe, it is up to you to bake and decorate your cookies with edible paints and royal frosting vs. sharing them the way they come out of the oven.

I hope this helps!

--Iris

[baquitania]

I totally agree with the committment level of a 4 year school. It should be a more intensified journey, so that the final outcome of teachers produced are prepared and exceptional. However the need for teachers is greater than the quality level, and I think the system (well in NY) has always been, "patch the hole then fix it".

I know crafts are not evil, and yes they can be used to a degree, I was using them as an example of work I personally don't prefer. And yes I am fully aware of the development levels in children, who need "extra" attention. I believe they become adults who need extra attention... it's just the way some learn over others.

I gave an audition for a grade school once, where the lesson was centered around 6 kids per table working as a group to do an oil pastel ala "van gogh". I taught them the breakdown of pattern into line and shape. I showed them examples of how Vincent used this in his work, and they took this info to do a large 20 x 30 sheet landscape of their own design. ( my apologies for not having an example, the school kept them ) These were 4th graders who really took to this lesson, grasping much more then they are given credit for...

Unfortunately the Principal didn't care the least bit about what was taught, he was more concerned with the discipline level, the time alloted, and eventually hired someone who taught the kids how to draw flowers with colored markers. Yes I admit I was dissappointed, but that is neither here nor there. I still believe that teachers should push themselves over what is taught to them, even by "the time honored administration".

Art in School was something I looked forward to as a kid, but when I student taught I saw many a face that did not feel that way. I think we have to inject a more individual approach to teaching, and that although these schools give great basic training... they are still out of the loop unless a perspective teacher learns first hand (first year I might add) the challenges they face.

The initial question was is there a better path?

If I can be concise I would say it could be like this:

1) Get your degree
2) Work towards your masters, never stop honing your own talent, because it will pass down to those you teach...
3) Get Personal and Individual with your classes and students, make their experience more then giving them the basics for 45 minutes.
4) Inject Culture and Music, and Life to your class, by using guess speakers, field trips, visiting artists. Show them that art leaves the classroom.
5) Teach more then the grade level, teach more then what is expected, teach children as if you invented Art, because to them you did. I think it's safe to say we won't find oysters if we don't look. I am not for playing it safe.
6) Incorporate other things they are learning, history, science, math (which I feel can be taught as pattern) so that your class compliments their education, and isn't just an escape.

I gave up teaching for personal reasons, but when I did it, it was the most fulfilling thing I ever did. I guess that should be your gage. Will this path fulfill you?

Bobby

[pinkbubelz]

The initial question was is there a better path?

If I can be concise I would say it could be like this:

1) Get your degree
2) Work towards your masters, never stop honing your own talent, because it will pass down to those you teach...
3) Get Personal and Individual with your classes and students, make their experience more then giving them the basics for 45 minutes.
4) Inject Culture and Music, and Life to your class, by using guess speakers, field trips, visiting artists. Show them that art leaves the classroom.
5) Teach more then the grade level, teach more then what is expected, teach children as if you invented Art, because to them you did. I think it's safe to say we won't find oysters if we don't look. I am not for playing it safe.
6) Incorporate other things they are learning, history, science, math (which I feel can be taught as pattern) so that your class compliments their education, and isn't just an escape.

I gave up teaching for personal reasons, but when I did it, it was the most fulfilling thing I ever did. I guess that should be your gage. Will this path fulfill you?

Bobby

I agree with these ideas whole-heartedly.
As one who has met teachers who have inspired vs. those who were going through the motions, this is an excellent way of thinking about teaching...

This is part of the reason why I have enjoyed being on WC-- it is the opportunity to teach as well as learn from others... :-) After all, the best way to learn is to teach others and repeat your knowlege. And, personally, I think that if many subjects incorporated art and music into the dispensing of knowlege, we would have many more students who would retain what they have learned.

It is unfortunate that in this day and age, art and music (especially in the U.S.) have been devalued. Many people don't realize that design and the arts are prevalent in everything around us--the clothes we wear, the houses we build, the cars we drive, etc.. Creativity can also inspire the development of many other new ideas and inventions. In fact, the creativity and observation learned in doing artwork can often-times be applied to the learning of the sciences and more technical fields

:-)

Animus, if it is your desire to teach, think about the whole picture-- as a teacher, your students will look upon you to inspire them. If that is the path you are choosing, think about attending a school where you will learn to be well-rounded in your own studies so that you may give your students valuable tools of learning that they can take into their other classes.

--Iris