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Matt Sammekull
12-30-2003, 07:43 PM
So, - the time has come! The first out of twelve, and we start of this project with my fellow country man Anders Zorn, and his painting "In Wikströms studio".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Dec-2003/15549-In_Wikstroms_studio.jpg

"In Wikströms studio", oil on canvas 1889, 82x60 cm (33x24")

Zorn would usually work on white linen canvases, without any toning or imprimaturas. He would loosely sketch in his motif with a thin fast drying oil paint (maybe burnt umber diluted with turpentine), and he then began blocking in his motif.
Whatever subject matter he chose, his palette was a very pale and blond one (with a few exceptions). He rarely used any mediums, but if he did, there seems to be one containing wax. He never varnished his paintings, and instructed clients not to either. Throughout his life he searched for a use of as few colors as possible, painted with as large brush as possible.

The painting above was painted in a limited palette, probably consisting of:

- Flake white (Cremnitz and Zinc mixed)
- Ivory black
- Yellow ochre light,
- Vermilion,

Here's a link to a large image. (http://user.tninet.se/~zju432s/MOM.htm)

This painting is from a short period in his life where he used his brush pretty much as a pencil, using hatching movements and leaving them untouched on the canvas.

Artists in same category: J. Sorolla, E. Manet, P.S. Kroyer

Good luck everyone! And remember to share your own adventures with the rest of us!!!

Matt Sammekull
12-30-2003, 07:46 PM
I posted this a little bit too early, because I don't know how much time I will have for the next few days.

Think "light" while painting this!!!

//matt

Leopoldo1
12-30-2003, 08:42 PM
Delicious stuff!..........http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Dec-2003/1936-lickout.gifL

Termini.
12-30-2003, 10:56 PM
OK, my wife wont let me do this one, next:crying:........


Jim

artbabe21
12-30-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen
This painting is from a short period in his life where he used his brush pretty much as a pencil, using hatching movements and leaving them untouched on the canvas.


Thanks for that bit of information....interesting technique...AND with a big brush, huh?.......okey doke...:)

Matt Sammekull
12-31-2003, 05:32 AM
This is the result of my first session. My panel is 50x37 cm (20x15"), which would be in the same ratio as the original.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/15549-Zorn_01.jpg
I began with a charcoal drawing, and then filled in all the right lines with ink. I only drew the lies I would need in order to get a good likeness to the original. As for the rest of the background I'll just paint is as I face it.

Cathleen, using as big brush as possible doesn't mean that he always used a huge brush. I myself will use a 1/2 inch brush for the entire painting... I think... maybe a bigger one for the background.

//matt

Matt Sammekull
12-31-2003, 05:51 AM
Hi.

Most of us don't have or use Vermilion. So what could replace that on our plaette.
Well, Zorn seems to have used a bright Vermilion, almost orange, opposed to the chinese version which is kind of brownish.

I have a tue of Rembrandt Vermilion, which is almost orange, and not really a good choice.

I mix my cadmium red light with a tiny bit of cad yellow, or use cad orange with a little extra cad red. I do add some burnt umber to this just to bring it down a bit.

For a chinese version I get a good mix when adding a a little burnt umber to my cad red.

Here's his palette, as he himself painted it:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/15549-Zorn_Self_portrait_with_a_model.jpg

And the Vermilion sampled in photoshop:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/15549-sample.jpg

It looks a bit brown as I look at it now... hrm...

I just tried to mix some english red light with cad red, about 60-40% and it looks good if I add some white to bring it down.

I'll go for a orange vermilion...
//matt

Eugene Veszely
12-31-2003, 06:21 AM
If I get myself together I might surprise a few and participate :)

Matt Sammekull
12-31-2003, 06:43 AM
Please do join us 1chameleon!!

Here's the red I'll be using.
I took some cad.orange, added cad.red to that, and at the bottom I added some burnt umber.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/15549-my_choice.jpg

//matt

Zarathustra
12-31-2003, 07:46 AM
Ah-ha, I've found the thread, and it answers my question very well. Thanks Matt.
I lightly gessoed a 55cm by 38cm cotton canvas this morning, and hope to lightly block in a turpsy guide for the painting to follow.

Matt, would Zorn have used the charcoal approach, or is it just for your own guidelines, as you say? Do you not think Zorn will be cussing you from the grave, especially as you did not even sample the blood sausages, vodka and cigars over this festive period! ;)

Matt Sammekull
12-31-2003, 07:57 AM
Over at the Zorn museeum, they have found traces of charcoal on some canvases, but not all. He had such great drawing cababilities, that he just as well could go ahead with paint.

//matt

Zarathustra
12-31-2003, 08:56 AM
I was just joshing with you Matt, but it's interesting to know he did use charcoal, at least in the early days.

I've made a 2minute sketch, which I can now tidy up (that bendy leg puts a smile on my face). Hopefully it won't take long to fill up the canvas with blocks of colour, which I can then refine. It's interesting that he painted with a brush as though it were a pencil. I will give it a try for the finer details, and hope I can still keep that impressionistic appearance.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/9583-mom-zorn1.jpg

guillot
12-31-2003, 09:18 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Hey guys :) So much Excitement!!

Matt, I'm at work and this computer will not allow me to put the sticky on it. Also need to do the Nudie Butt :) I'll take care of it at lunch on my computer at home. Then, when February comes along, we can switch stickies.

Really looking forward to this wonderful adventure over the next year.

Happy New Year to everyone :)

Tina

Zarathustra
12-31-2003, 09:22 AM
Hi Tina, hope you had a good Christmas?


A few minutes later.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/9583-mom-zorn2.jpg

guillot
12-31-2003, 09:27 AM
Hi Z, yes I had a wonderful Christmas!! And Yours?

You and Matt both have a fabulous beginnings going on there. I WOULD have to be at work today :( But, I'm looking forward to beginning mine this evening. No new years parties for me !! And what better way to bring in the New Year?

Tina

Zarathustra
12-31-2003, 10:49 AM
Great thanks Tina. Put on half a stone in little more than a week - always a good sign of a Christmas well spent. :)

I blocked in the whole canvas with colour, though colour and value weren't placed with any accuracy yet - I just wanted to fill the canvas so I can work properly on it tomorrow. I promised myself I'd rock out some Metallica on my old guitar come 4pm.

I've noticed that on the ARC version of the picture, there are a lot of yellow's that can't be achieved with Zorn's limited palette. Matt, have you seen the original painting and would you say the picture posted in this thread is more accurate than the ARC version?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/9583-mom-zorn3.jpg

Control Freak
12-31-2003, 11:12 AM
Hi All

Boy am I jealous!
Paints packed in a box for a never ending house move - unlikely to be doing any painting in january let alone one a month.

Looking forward to seeing this develop - in my humble opinion this is the best of the twelve months.
I think i'll try and tackle this one in a couple of months time and call it my master of the year!

Until then will watch and learn
Best wishes to all taking part.

Phil

Control Freak
12-31-2003, 11:15 AM
PS.
Matt and Zara - both off to a good (swift) start!
roll on january!
Phil

Matt Sammekull
12-31-2003, 11:53 AM
No Zar, this is one painting I haven't seen in real life. And I agree, our reference and the ARC's seem somewhat more yellow, as if he had used a cad. yellow on this.
I have also seen reproductions of this painting where all the colors look more grey, and closer to the yellow ochre look.

Great beginning!!! Rock on!!!

//matt

Zarathustra
12-31-2003, 12:53 PM
Hi Phil, you could always use some charcoal or a pencil and sketch the M.O.M's until your art equipment's unpacked, then you'll be better aquainted with the paintings when it comes to paint them.

Matt, I think I'll have to go with the grey look when I come to finish it, because I can't get those colours without some sort of yellow. I will follow the smaller version for its colour scheme and the larger one for its details. It seems important for the painting that the young lady has most the colour, whilst her surroundings are mostly in tones of grey.
Had a good play on the axe, this new guitar is so much easier to play than my last.

scandia3815
12-31-2003, 02:06 PM
What an awesome year-long project this is! And a good way to start the year with Zorn. I think I'll try my hand at this one as well, having done a Zorn reproduction this summer and really enjoyed it. I work in acrylics though, so I'll post my finished work over in that forum and maybe a link here on this thread.

Matt- A great choice from Zorn's work for the project. As you are someone who knows Zorn's paintings quite well, I'm interested to know what led you to choose this painting?

Aaron.

artbabe21
12-31-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
I think I'll have to go with the grey look when I come to finish it, because I can't get those colours without some sort of yellow.

Hi Gavin--nice start you have going there...

I thought Zorn's palette is merely a suggestion---you could add another yellow, right? Or is it YOUR intent to use his very limited palette? :)
Happy New Year! :)

dcorc
12-31-2003, 02:14 PM
Hi Folks!

can I play too, please:D

board, acrylic "gesso" 16x22ins

W&N alkyds:
Titanium White
Yellow Ochre
Vermilion Hue
Ivory Black

and a little turps.

1st session 2hours, 1/2inch bristle brush

nothing else!

painted directly, no prep drawing, sketch-out with thin paint or whatever - rather dark and muddy at this point.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/30792-zorn1.jpg

Dave

artbabe21
12-31-2003, 02:51 PM
Nice job Dave!!

I decided to get a quick rough drawing of my cropped version on a panel...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Dec-2003/7568-dscn2632.jpg

guillot
12-31-2003, 03:14 PM
:clap: :clap: Great start Cathleen !!!!

Look at you guys go! Bravo.

Got 4 hours of Administrative Leave - So I'm OFF :D Don't go back till the 5th!

OK, thread is stuck (has sticky) and nudie bootie attached.

Tina

kjsspot
12-31-2003, 05:59 PM
Hey y'all! Since I finally graduated (just before Christmas) I might actually have time to do this! I've ordered some Vermillion from Ozog. Been meaning to give it a try anyway so this is my chance. I'll have to wait till it arrives to start. That's ok. I've got a few things to finish up first anyway.

Since Zorn was before copyright laws, do you think it'd be OK to sell the results on eBay as long as I make sure to attribute it to him?

Zarathustra
12-31-2003, 06:16 PM
Hi Cathleen,

Great to see you have the time to join in. A crop is a great idea, though I foresee a reproduction of Zorn's head (being relatively small and impressionistic), as quite a challenge. Look forward to watching you progress.

Kjsspot - I can't see any problems with you selling your version of Zorn's artwork. I doubt you even have to acknowledge the source if you didn't want to (don't quote me on that!!). I've seen people sell Zorn canvas prints before.

kjsspot
12-31-2003, 07:21 PM
Kewl! I'll prob do that then, post it on ebay. Assuming it doesn't turn out like... uh.. well, bad. heh I will put that it's after Zorn though. Not a legal requirement but I would feel morally insufficient if I didn't. :angel:

artbabe21
12-31-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
A crop is a great idea, though I foresee a reproduction of Zorn's head (being relatively small and impressionistic), as quite a challenge. Look forward to watching you progress.


Hi Gavin.....we'll see how it goes or I may have to crop it down to 'just the head'...:eek: at least I have a start & can do what I feel I have time to fit in.....what was your feeling on the yellow question I asked you?

guillot
01-01-2004, 12:59 AM
Well, I'm thinking of starting off with a toned gray gessoed support. Because those grays will come through in the painting if applied properly. Just my thoughts.

I've noticed the same, and I've also noticed with other works that I've done that the colors come out nicely cooled that way.

Just my 2 cts. There's no way I can paint like Zorn! And I know that, or I would be making lots of money right? :D I'm looking to crop also. I find that her face is nice - her breasts are underdeveloped, somewhat plastic looking in this painting - or false (not as in implants or something) - just something lacking there. Life lacking there or something I can't put my finger on. For me, the point of interest in this painting - my eye leads to the statue in the top right portion of the painting. Although I know you men - prefer looking at those breasts, right? LOL :evil: Well, to me they are kind of unnatural and torpedo'ish - she needs a Penny Marshall Bra, LOL !!! But, I'm interested in the way that he maintained the form of that statue with such loose strokes. That's what I want to learn !! So - I'm contemplating what portion I'm going to crop because I like the bottom left portion as well - nice and loose and impasto-ish. That grass skirt, the the leg portion of a larger statue. To me, there's no interesting strokes in her form, with the exception of the skirt, the table in front of her, and the larger statue's leg, and the top right portion of the painting. They are painted more loosely to my eye.

OK, just my thoughts -

Tina

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 04:31 AM
Cath, I'm undecided on the 'yellow' paint. I like the hue in the screenshot of the painting, but I can't achieve it with yellow ochre alone. I'll see how it goes, and perhaps I'll add a more subtle naples yellow or something to the palette as a compromise.

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 05:10 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I will use the full wide spectrum of tubes at my disposal if I find it necessary.

You have to remember that the info I provided/ will provide for each and every month is just things I picked up while doing research on the subject, and not rules of participation. I do not claim to know that what I write is absolute correct. As for this month, I have an advantage as I've studied Zorn up close for a long time, and have seen many of his originals in real life.

As Zar, I like the yellow warm feel to it, and will add some sort of yellow... perhaps a Naples yellow will do the trick, but more likely a cad yellow.

You guys are doing great! All of you!

What I like about this painting is the fact that it was "born" at the second we meet it... as Zorn was visiting his friend in his studio. The sculptor was working on a piece, or two pieces as we see in the painting, he took a break in order to be a good host to Zorn, and the model wrapped some blanket around herself making sure it wont fall of her. There Zorn "found" his painting = what we see before us today.

Cathleen - looking at your cropped version I see what a beautiful pose this is. Great drawing!

I look forward to see how your approach will turn out Tina! (hugs!)

//matt

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 05:51 AM
Greetings Matt,
Thanks for the bit of background behind the painting. She's not propping up the knee with her red hair is she. :D

I've not really painted much with this more direct method before, and I think I'm really going to struggle if I try some more this afternoon. I don't really have any small oil hogs hair brushes, so I'm going to give a better sized acrylic brush a go. With this style of painting, is it best to lay down a stroke and then just leave it where it lays? I can't help feeling I'm going to turn her face into something hideously mutated with muddy overworked paint.

Incidentally, I think Cad Yellow Medium would work well for the tones. Naples yellow is a little too close to a yellow ochre with zinc/tit. white.

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 06:12 AM
Nice to talk to you again... it must have been a long time ago.. probably last year sometime! ;)

Incidentally, I think Cad Yellow Medium would work well for the tones. Naples yellow is a little too close to a yellow ochre with zinc/tit. white

Good call!!

I wonder if I could replace the ochre all together with a cad yellow?

As for the facial features... you could alway ignore them you know, and work with the whole instead of details. Maybe just finding two or three planes to build up the face in, three different values.

//matt

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 06:19 AM
Yes, it's been a while, probably 2003 as I recall. :)

I think I'm going to give the old cad yellow med a shot - I'll let you know if it's a disaster.

I might take up your suggestion for the face, though I wish I was the fly buzzing around Zorn's blood sausages, so I could take a glimpse at his technique on the canvas.
On the high res image, there seems to be many strokes, produced as you once said, in a pencil like manner.

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 06:50 AM
I wish I was the fly buzzing around Zorn's blood sausages, so I could take a glimpse at his technique on the canvas.

Well, the chances are you would have wound up in is stomach, and considering his habits of consumtion... that wouldn't have been a very nice place. But for that potential insight on his technique, - it could be worth it!

Oooo!!! Your guitar!! A new one?? What kind?? Tell me tell me tell me!!! And show me show me show me!!!!

I have developed quite a stutter as you can see see see...

//matt

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 07:16 AM
I imagine Zorn wouldn't have had the reactionary times to swat me - I'd take me chances. :)

I say 'new', but I've had it a couple of months, but I had my old washburn for a decade before this. I bought it online from the States, because it was half the cost of trying to purchase it on this expensive little island.
JS2000CG (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=JS2000)

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 09:15 AM
I imagine Zorn wouldn't have had the reactionary times to swat me

... sound extremely likely!!

Coool guitar! With a little bit of attitude right, going for a champagne/gold color?

This is the one I was about to pick up before christmas, but will wait until we move again (feb/march). It's a basic Strata... but I like those, so easy to play and they rarely cause any problems.

Fender Telecaster Rick Parfitt (http://www.fenderstore.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2efenderstore%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fWHATS_NEW%2ehtml&WD=rick%20tele%20parfitt%20fender&SHOP=%20&PREVQUERY=SS%3d%2bFender%2bRick%2bParfitt%2bTele%2b%26ACTION%3dGo%2521%26PR%3d%2d1%26TB%3dA%26SHOP%3d%20&PN=Artist%2dSeries%2ehtml%23a182#a182)

//matt

_00_
01-01-2004, 09:45 AM
Happy New Year everyone,

Well, I must say that quillot's post reveals plenty about her. Sigmund Freud is my spirit guide ;) just kidding. It did cause me to take a good look at those breasts. They might have demonstrated more weight at that size which leads me to believe Zorn may have enlarged them some, perhaps unconsciously.

As for the statue in the back it is also a very interesting choice. Nothing implied. It is very expressive in pose and brushwork. I think of the poses of the sculptor Tuan. If I were to paint a cropped version I would include the statue and the breasts :)

I am thinking that the way to approach this project is to use the same style including broad expressive brush strokes rather than an exact reproduction in by inch carefully getting everything like a fake. Please excuse me for using that word it is meant as a description that gets every in and out by appearance ignoring the actual attitude and approach that the original was created with.

I know there are no definite rules so anything goes. It is great seeing everyone doing this. I wish I had more time to try this. That is one of the best in this MOM series.

Enjoy all,

Carl

PS Stratocasters are beautiful guitars. I like the feel of a Les Paul myself.

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 10:00 AM
It is the only choice of colour with this model guitar, so I didn't have a lot of say. :( Still, it looks beautiful.
I'm afraid the images don't appear on the link you've given me, but I've a good idea of how the guitar looks. I think a telecaster is well suited to your musical influence. Do you know if the Maestro (Buckley) used one?


Zorn has taught me a lesson today. I can't paint! I'm hopeless, and haven't a clue what I am doing. I'm used to working with small amounts of paint, but I presume for something like this you can't be stingy and must squeeze out a lot? Even so, my brush strokes look hideous, and I'm almost ready for giving up. :(

Control Freak
01-01-2004, 10:24 AM
Hi All

Dave: You have a good strong start there - will be watching this one.

Cathleen: Nice idea on the cropping - never even occured to me!

Zara:
Of course you are correct - have unpacked pencil and paper and done a free hand sketch (unfortunately now have to find the box with the digital camera! - Doh!) and an art shop open on a bank holiday as I have no canvas!

I have little experience with painting and have only worked with small amounts of paint and am worried about the amount of paint that would be involved in a large scale reproduction so have opted for an 8 x 6 inch version.

Will post the sketch later

Phil

JamieWG
01-01-2004, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra

Zorn has taught me a lesson today. I can't paint! I'm hopeless, and haven't a clue what I am doing. I'm used to working with small amounts of paint, but I presume for something like this you can't be stingy and must squeeze out a lot? Even so, my brush strokes look hideous, and I'm almost ready for giving up. :(

ROFLOL....I have a feeling this is the first of many Big Whines that we're going to be hearing from many participants on this thread! Gavin, you're a wonderful artist, and I'm *certain* that you have the tenacity to work through this and produce a painting we'll all be drooling over.

Originally posted by Zarathustra
On the high res image, there seems to be many strokes, produced as you once said, in a pencil like manner.

Well, gee, I'll bet I know where there's a really BIG pencil you can use! LOL ;) (And don't you think that statue was really resting on a big pencil sharpener?)

I'm with Tina on the eye being drawn to the far statue. His rendering of the cool light/warm shadow, and the perfect placement of the few strokes that make up the statue are what make the painting for me. I think the girl looks jaundiced and her facial tones (which look gorgeous!) don't go with the rest of her. What was he thinking?! If I get time to participate, I'd give her a more normal skin color. Then I'm sure I'd understand why that doesn't work, and why Zorn painted her yellow instead. :D

Jamie

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 10:28 AM
Zar... don't you worry! You CAN paint!! And c'mon... it's only the first of january... so there's 30 days to go!

Of course, if we compare ourselves to any of these guys in the MOM project, none of us can paint!!!

Whatever you have done, - it can be saved, trust me!

As for the woman's breasts... I'm pretty sure Zorn would never alter reality in order for his paintings to look more sexual or something like that. He picked his models carefully though.
I saw an old film where they interviewed some of Zorn's models, and they told us how he very politely would ask the model to get naked, so he could examine their forms and curves. Most of the girls never became models... instead he used his favorites over and over again.

Oh.. and the guitar of my choice is a Telecaster, and not a Strat!

//matt

Eugene Veszely
01-01-2004, 11:40 AM
Ah finally found it .....here at the top of the page!!! :)

Some are going great guns already!!!:eek:

If I can borrow my friends digital camera...I might jump aboard :)

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 11:41 AM
Jamie, it's the first of many big whinges from me alone... they'll be plenty more down the road. :) ;)
I see you noticed that thread Jamie. :) Now if only I had a paintbrush the same size. :D

And Matt, yes you are right, plenty of time, it's just alla prima ought to be a fairly quick process without all the same delays as layering. I've already scraped off the woman's face three times, and blocked in the basic shape rather than trying to add details.
I'd love to learn the alla prima techniques, but not only does it eat paint like nobody's business, but it is evidently quite a skill to master... And I thought watercolours were tough.

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 12:09 PM
I'd love to learn the alla prima techniques, but not only does it eat paint like nobody's business, but it is evidently quite a skill to master... And I thought watercolours were tough.

- AMEN to that!!!!!

//matt

dcorc
01-01-2004, 12:17 PM
Stage2

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2004/30792-zorn2.jpg

Attempting to brighten things up a bit - just White, Ochre and Black this time. And turps.

One of the things I've found so far is that in order to get this working, I'm diluting the paint far more with turps than I thought I would - there's much turpsy scrubbing going on here with the half-inch bristle brush. (Given Zorn's watercolour background, perhaps this is less surprising, on reflection)

I suspect that a lot of Zorn's brushstrokes which appear very rapid and impasto may be a good deal more measured than they first seem.

I think the fact that we are all doing this at approx 2/3 actual size is working against us.

I agree with Zarathustra that trying to paint in Zorn's style does eat paint - also, this is the first time I've used a bristle brush on a painting in over a decade!

I'll bet that my girl here can arm-wrestle all yours (and any nearby truckdrivers too !). I'll try to correct that next session!

Dave

guillot
01-01-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by _00_
Happy New Year everyone,

Well, I must say that quillot's post reveals plenty about her. Sigmund Freud is my spirit guide ;) just kidding. It did cause me to take a good look at those breasts. They might have demonstrated more weight at that size which leads me to believe Zorn may have enlarged them some, perhaps unconsciously.



Plenty about me?? LOL No, no no.... I don't have a problem at all with nudity in art. This particular painting though, to me, seems under-developed in the area of her body. The strokes are not the same in those areas. I even had my husband look at it, and he said, "you know, her right breast looks smaller than her left" and if you really look at it - it could be - I don't know.

Put come on _00_ - no psychoanalyzing - ok? LOL Sigmund Freud was nuts !! There is no such thing as a "wandering Vagina" either - or have you read about that phenomena (or excuse) that he came up with for hysteria in women? He also slept with many of his patients, then turned around and called them mentally ill.

Just, my eyes are drawn elsewhere - to the more developed strokes, they to me are more interesting. You should pick another spirit guide my friend, LOL :) :D :angel: That's so funny - but please, really !! I was just sharing my views on this particular piece.

Jamie - Thanks for the backup. I'm glad that not only my eyes are drawn to that area of the painting.

Congrats on the guitar's you guys !!! :) Hope you all had a rockin New Years.

Tina

TeAnne
01-01-2004, 12:28 PM
I will start this tomorrow if I'm allowed to join in.

artbabe21
01-01-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by TeAnne
I will start this tomorrow if I'm allowed to join in.

Absolutely! Glad to have you...it's open to everyone!! :)

Matt Sammekull
01-01-2004, 12:51 PM
Dave - I think your painting is a great example of how much you can achieve with so few means! Those three colors could produce such beautiful value-based paintings! Good, no - Great start.

Teanne, - Cath said it!!! Anyone and anytime!!!


//matt

Control Freak
01-01-2004, 01:45 PM
OK - Step 1:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2004/17002-iws_1.jpg

Have to put it on hold now!

Phil

Zarathustra
01-01-2004, 02:21 PM
Hey Phil, nice drawing... I bet the frustration at not being to start, has hit back in now!?

Dave, yours is shaping up very nicely.

kjsspot
01-01-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
Zorn has taught me a lesson today. I can't paint! I'm hopeless, and haven't a clue what I am doing. I'm used to working with small amounts of paint, but I presume for something like this you can't be stingy and must squeeze out a lot? Even so, my brush strokes look hideous, and I'm almost ready for giving up. :(

LoL I'm with you Zar! I haven't even started and I'm nervous as crap about it. :eek: But I'm gonna give it a good try at least. I'm thinking about going full size. I have 25.5x34" canvases. That's pretty close to his size. Not sure yet though. That's a lotta paint!

edit: On second thought, 3/4 size would turn out to be 24.75x18". Half size would be 16.5x12". That's a bit too small I think. But I could probably do a 24x18 canvas. I'd just have to crop a little bit of the original. It seems a bit more managable paint wise and still would be big enough to get the idea of using large brush strokes. Hmmm....

Paul Mesken
01-01-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by kjsspot
I haven't even started and I'm nervous as crap about it. :eek:

I don't even have time to get nervous about it. It seems everybody has almost finished while I still have to pick up my sketch book to do some pencil studies first. It's still only January the 1st, I haven't even prepped a panel in the right size.

Wait for me people! ;)

kjsspot
01-01-2004, 03:01 PM
Ah, that's probably the problem then. I have to wait before I can start so I'm getting nervous! LoL

artbabe21
01-01-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Paul Mesken
Wait for me people! ;)

Paul.....I'm waiting, it will be awhile til I get back to mine since I have some things going......let's let them go ahead so we can learn from what they run into!! :)

Phil--terrific drawing!

kjsspot--brave one--life size to Zorn's??:eek:

kjsspot
01-01-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by artbabe21
Paul.....I'm waiting, it will be awhile til I get back to mine since I have some things going......let's let them go ahead so we can learn from what they run into!! :)

Good idea! LoL

kjsspot--brave one--life size to Zorn's??:eek:

heh I'm vacillating between same size or 3/4 size.

dcorc
01-01-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen
Dave - I think your painting is a great example of how much you can achieve with so few means! Those three colors could produce such beautiful value-based paintings! Good, no - Great start.
//matt

Thanks Matt - there's also Vermilion Hue in there from the first session yesterday - Zorn's colours are great for doing mud, too ;)

Originally posted by Zarathustra
I'm used to working with small amounts of paint, but I presume for something like this you can't be stingy and must squeeze out a lot? Even so, my brush strokes look hideous

That's exactly how I feel about mine too - and I hate the big brush strokes. It's a real act of self-discipline to stop myself from blending and smoothing them!

Originally posted by kjsspot
I'm thinking about going full size. I have 25.5x34" canvases.
......
I'm vacillating between same size or 3/4 size.


I'd strongly encourage you to go full size on it! I think it might be a lot less frustrating, and the "brushiness" might be a bit easier full size.

Dave

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 09:16 AM
So I'm ready to lay down some paint! Here's my set-up, which will be the same through out the entire painting. I added a bit of my wax/oil medium to each of the piles of paint.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/15549-tools.jpg

Flake white
Yellow Ochre light
Cadmium red light with some Burnt Umber to it
Burnt Umber
Ivory black

So the sketch would be step 1:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/15549-Zorn_01.jpg

See you soon again.

//matt

Eugene Veszely
01-02-2004, 09:47 AM
I got my pencil out ...that is a start isnt it ??;)

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 10:16 AM
I got my pencil out ...that is a start isn't it ??

And a great way to start it is!! Now you need some paper though...

This is how far my son would let me go today... at least for now.

I didn't use the red yet...

What's up with the chair? Is it broken or what?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/15549-Zorn_02.jpg

You all mention how much paint you use... but I really didn't use that much, keeping the paint rather thin.

By the way, I use thus version as a reference. I believe this is more to the original... less yellow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/15549-reference.jpg

//matt

impressionist2
01-02-2004, 10:29 AM
I knew you all would get ahead of me! Okay, got to go prep the board, get it gessoed and then I'll try to catch up.

Sure looks like a good start for everyone.

We have the whole month, I think, to finish this. Right?

Renee

artbabe21
01-02-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by impressionist2
We have the whole month, I think, to finish this. Right?


You're not behind Renee, some are just ahead--yes, we do have the entire month to finish this...:)

Eugene Veszely
01-02-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen

By the way, I use thus version as a reference. I believe this is more to the original... less yellow.

//matt

Nowww you tell us!!! (as you bring out the real thing ;) ) :p

Zarathustra
01-02-2004, 10:48 AM
When the page first loaded I saw the full colour version, and my jaw dropped, thinking you had nailed the accuracy to an absolute tee. :D I see now, this is another version of Zorn's work, and the colours are quite radically different.
Your version is going very nicely Matt.
I need to redo much of mine.... I've ordered Richard Schmid's book and one of his videos so I can learn more about this method of painting. It's damn expensive!

artbabe21
01-02-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by 1chameleon
Nowww you tell us!!! (as you bring out the real thing ;) ) :p

yeah....probably out of his closet!! lol :D

dcorc
01-02-2004, 11:01 AM
Well, here it is in all its glory, fueled not by vodka and black pudding, but by whisky and xmas pudding!

"In Wiksrom's studio with Rubik's cube" after Zorn

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/30792-zorn3.jpg

Blecchhhh......

At least I know what board I'll be painting February's on! Where's my sandpaper got to?

Dave

Paul Mesken
01-02-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by artbabe21
You're not behind Renee, some are just ahead--yes, we do have the entire month to finish this...:)

Yes, these young guns are so eager to dive straight in ;)

I'm still looking at the photo and made some rough sketches to see where things line up, what the angles are, the shapes of major areas, etc. I expect that the whole thing will take at least two weeks (and I'm kinda busy right now).

dcorc
01-02-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen


You all mention how much paint you use... but I really didn't use that much, keeping the paint rather thin.

Not so much a question of "how much paint used" as "how much paint wasted". :) Actually, one of the things I commented on was that I realised the paint needed to be much thinner and more "turpsy" than I at first thought. Matt - as I've never seen a Zorn in real life, could you tell me how physically flat or impasto the surfaces of his canvases were?


By the way, I use thus version as a reference. I believe this is more to the original... less yellow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/15549-reference.jpg

//matt

bah...doh...cough....splutter...!

given all the agonising about how yellow it was, whether people ought to add in a yellow - my own attempts to paint the d**n thing as yellow as possible sticking to the white-ochre-vermilion-black palette.....sneaky, Matt, very sneaky! :)

Seriously though, what have I got out of this - at 2/3 size, I can't take this any further with bristle brushes - and one one gets into sables, it's faking the style, I think, so I'm quitting on this one here.

Zara commented about this Alla Prima technique being as difficult as/more difficult than, watercolours - perhaps Zorn's technique to some extent IS that of a watercolourist adapted to oils?

Dave

guillot
01-02-2004, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
I've ordered Richard Schmid's book and one of his videos so I can learn more about this method of painting. It's d*** expensive!

Worth every penny too :) Great book to have!!

Matt - YOU ROCK !!

dcorc - Looking great !!!

Renee - I haven't even started, LOL But will hopefully get around to a bit of painting this weekend. I need to rush out and buy some paints I'm running short on. By the time I finish doing that - well, there goes about another $200.00 in paints :) That would just be from my inability to control myself at the art store. :p

Paul - No rush - everyone has the whole month for this.

Tina

Control Freak
01-02-2004, 12:16 PM
Hi
Good start Matt and thanks for the new ref. - much 'better' for my plans.
Ta
Phil

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 01:26 PM
1chameleon - Hey! When I said that I believe this is closer to the original, it really meant that I believe.. I do not know. I just seems unlikely that Zorn all the sudden would use such a high key! So my version will be with the ole´familiar limited palette on my hands.

Matt - as I've never seen a Zorn in real life, could you tell me how physically flat or impasto the surfaces of his canvases were?
Hey Dave!
I have seen many dozens of Zorn's in real life, close to a hundred almost. Often, I see thinned out paint, thinned with turpentine, in the backgrounds, but sometimes also in the face of a figure, or the cliffs of a landscape painting. In general, thinned out paint was used for shadows and thicker paint for middletones and especially lights. The only real 3D impasto paint I ever stumbled across were the highlights.

And it's very true as you point out, that he came from watercolors to oils, pretty much using the same technique in oils, with washes and covering whites. If you look at all the photographs of him working, you notice how angled he kept his easel in the beginning of hos oil painting days.

I actually think that this is a key to his technique. He learned how to place an exact brushstroke on his paper using watercolors. Models have explained how Zorn would paint the brushstroke in the air, a few inches from the canvas many times until he finally placed it on the canvas.
So, to focus on few and absolute brushstrokes would be the thing here. But my oh my it takes some talent!!!!

Zarathustra
01-02-2004, 02:01 PM
Matt, my brushstrokes end up looking pretty similar and rather bland, impasto or otherwise. I don't know if I'm using the wrong size, and shape brushes, but it looks like something I might have done in infant school art class. :)

Have you had a chance to work on the girl yet?

artbabe21
01-02-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen
I see thinned out paint, thinned with turpentine, in the backgrounds, but sometimes also in the face of a figure, or the cliffs of a landscape painting. In general, thinned out paint was used for shadows and thicker paint for middletones and especially lights. The only real 3D impasto paint I ever stumbled across were the highlights.


Thanks Matt....that helps an awful lot!! Difficult to tell from a photo...I still think flying to all the sites of the paintings was the best idea.....maybe we can get a grant...lol

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 05:08 PM
Sure Cathleen... you fix those grants!!!

Zar... what kind of surface are you working on? Is it glossy or matte? And no, - no work on the figure yet... been watching that movie Frida, about Frida Kahlo. Depressing...

//matt

Zarathustra
01-02-2004, 05:22 PM
It's a matte surface, and a real drag on the brushes. Maybe I should rub a little linseed into the canvas, or try that beeswax recipe, though I was saving it for the top layer of paint.

I've heard a little about Frida Kahlo, and her constant pain, plus the emotional turmoil of not being able to conceive a child.

I watched Jack Nicholson in "About Schmid" a couple of days ago, and whilst it's a meloncholic film, it is humourous and I found it ultimately uplifting.
I'll be watching the Vermeer film over the weekend. :)

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 05:29 PM
Do that Zar, - rub some linseed on the surface with the pawn of your hand or something and dry of the excess.

And DON'T save up on the wax medium... I'll send you a barrel of it! Blend your paint with 1 third medium...
I use it from the first brushstrokes... on panel covered with acruylic gesso, W&N Galleria. It's a really "thirsty" surface... but what the heck.

As Kate Bush sang, or was it Peter Gabriel, or was it both - "Don't give up!"


Saludos,

//matt

Zarathustra
01-02-2004, 05:37 PM
I will give that a go Matt, though I might wait a few days for the existing paint to dry. I might try and determine colours and values before I just dab the brush into the paint and follow a happy-go-lucky approach to this. :)

artbabe21
01-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen
... been watching that movie Frida, about Frida Kahlo. Depressing...


Matt.....I found it quite depressing myself...:(

speaking of movies---hubby & I watched a rather interesting movie last night on TV called The Moderns about Paris 1926 with Hemmingway, Stein & the primary character of Keith Carradine, an American artist who agreed to copy a Matisse & 2 Modiglianis....it showed his process and actual painting..the plot twists & turns and ends interestingly.

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 06:04 PM
it showed his process and actual painting

Don't you just love those movies?!

Hugs,

//matt

coyote
01-02-2004, 06:27 PM
This looks like it will become a VERY long thread! It's only January 2, and we're already up to 6 pages. The style of this painting is quite different from the way I would normally work, but I'll give it my best shot. I'm working on a 16x22 stretched canvas. Started with a thin overall tone of burnt umber, and wiped out the highlights:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/6561-MoM1-1.jpg
Then just began putting in the darks and playing around with it:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/6561-MoM1-3.jpg

There are a few areas that I find confusing. Can't really tell what's going on in most of the right side...and what's that thing she's playing with? Also, there's a spot near the forehead that almost looks like he tried to correct the shape of the face with some background color that didn't quite match...or is it something else?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/6561-zorndetail.jpg

Zarathustra
01-02-2004, 06:36 PM
Coyote, nice start!
I think that 'block' by her head, is just highlighted hair from the bright window. If you look at the hi-res version, you can see more details.
As for the dark right hand side. Just keep it impressionistic, many paintings work even when there are areas that don't seem to make much sense. It doesn't always pay to be too analytical. ;)

dcorc
01-02-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by coyote
There are a few areas that I find confusing. Can't really tell what's going on in most of the right side...and what's that thing she's playing with?

I'd guess its possibly some sort of drawstring in the garment? - but isn't the Rubik's cube much better? :cool:

I haven't seen "Frida" yet, but I'd bet it's the sort of movie that doesn't have a single shot of the two main characters running in slow motion, towards camera, away from a vast explosion! (so no wonder it's depressing - now Alfred Molina's next movie is Spiderman2 - as "Doc Oc" - actually that's who they should have cast him in "Frida" as, instead of as that boring Rivera bloke! :D )

Dave

artbabe21
01-02-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
Coyote, nice start!

there are areas that don't seem to make much sense.

I quite agree, nice start Todd!

Re: Areas that don't make sense--these are calls mysteries, so just fake it...:)

Matt Sammekull
01-02-2004, 08:41 PM
About those areas we call mysteries;

As one art teacher once told me as we were discussing Zorn;

"Anyone of you could understand how Zorn painted his figures, and all of you could even learn to copy them! But the backgrounds is far more tough... I doubt one of us will ever paint a background like Zorn did."

I think he was spot on. As with Zorn's contemporary - J.S. Sargent - look at those backgrounds! They look like nothing, yet they make the painting perfect! Just imagine that every single stroke of the background means as much as the most delicate brushstroke of the face. It did for those masters...
Also, areas that "don't make sense" help the artist to guide his viewers to his chosen point/area of interest.

And Dave, - how about Molina starring as Spiderman himself? ;)

I agree on with Zar on the light behind her face, and that must be a piece of string that she's fooling around with, somewhat shy and intimidated in front of "the great Zorn".

Coyote - That's a very promising start! Great work!

But guys, what about the chair? Isn't something lacking here? I mean... I see only one piece of support for the back, or am I interpreting the image wrongly?

The more I look at this... as I said before, the more beautiful the girl becomes. I just love her pose.

Take care,

//matt

Control Freak
01-03-2004, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen
About those areas we call mysteries;

But guys, what about the chair? Isn't something lacking here? I mean... I see only one piece of support for the back, or am I interpreting the image wrongly?



Hi

I think the mysteries are part of the fun of this!

I personnally find that i 'cant' draw what i dont understand if it doesnt make sense then you are just painting a shape.

The chair didnt make sense to me - is it broken - with only on back support?

My approach was to move the chairs single back support off the line of the chair leg (I am going to paint a stool - with no upright back). There is still an upright structure - A handle of something (maybe a broom?) leaning against the stool?

The different interpretaions of these mysteries will be fun

re. Frida.
Yes depressing - but i think worth watching?
we might scare off potential viewers?

regards to all
Phil

Control Freak
01-03-2004, 04:52 AM
PS.
Coyote: great start - just blocking the darks has given this start depth.
Phil

Matt Sammekull
01-03-2004, 05:06 AM
A stool sound like a good approach - I'll use that.

And "Frida", yes depressing, but depressing doesn't mean bad. I thought it was good movie.

//matt

MikLNjLo
01-03-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Matt Viinanen
About those areas we call mysteries;

As one art teacher once told me as we were discussing Zorn;

"Anyone of you could understand how Zorn painted his figures, and all of you could even learn to copy them! But the backgrounds is far more tough... I doubt one of us will ever paint a background like Zorn did."

I think he was spot on. As with Zorn's contemporary - J.S. Sargent - look at those backgrounds! They look like nothing, yet they make the painting perfect! Just imagine that every single stroke of the background means as much as the most delicate brushstroke of the face. It did for those masters...
Also, areas that "don't make sense" help the artist to guide his viewers to his chosen point/area of interest.

Another artist looking to Zorn, Richard Schmid often expressively hints at the environment surrounding his focal point. I think one reason it is so difficult for another artist to duplicate these areas in the same manner is that they rely on more of the right-brained subconscious characteristics in the person. A scribbled signature is harder to forge than clear penmanship for the same reason.

Areas that are not painted as tightly within a controlled style will look like failures when we try to paint them. We cannot be any other person. Your work may not look like the artist's that you are referring to but using their approach to painting can only succeed when you are accessing your own expression of what is essential to include. IOW take their approach but make your own choices. Unfortunately this also requires that you work from the same source and not their painting.

I guess you should expect your version to look different. What is important is that it works as a piece on its own when you are finished. If it looks exactly like someone else's work down to every strok you have succeeded in creating a fake. That can be okay also. There is something to learn from approaching this project anyway you want.

Matt Sammekull
01-03-2004, 10:26 AM
Very well put.


//matt

Zarathustra
01-04-2004, 12:05 PM
Well, I am not quite defeated yet... I came to the conclusion I have been using the wrong type of brushes, but the only brushes that were suitable and in my possession were a set of 12 unused brushes (suitable for all mediums!) costing $2 for the lot - amazingly the bristles didn't come out!

Due to the artificial lighting my first photograph makes it too yellow, and the second has too many greys and blacks... The actual painting is something in between, but I'll have to wait for natural daylight to get a better photo.

I redid the background and foreground, and have very quickly and roughly blocked in the woman, moving one arm across a little as it was in the wrong place. If I get a chance I can work on the figure tomorrow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jan-2004/9583-mom-zorn4.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jan-2004/9583-mom-zorn5.jpg

guillot
01-04-2004, 12:15 PM
Hey Z - that's looking wonderful !!!! Everything looks spot-on at this point in your painting!!

MikL - another thing that Schmid points out in his book "Learn from the masters - it's all there in their paintings - then do your own dance". I don't see were varying the style to a certain degree would be too beneficial, if we are to "learn" something from Zorn and his technique and approaches. Of course, the subject and the choices have already been made - in Zorn's painting. I believe our part is "learning" what those choices he made were and why. That, to me, is going to be the most challenging part of this project and I love challenges :) Just my 2 cts.

Tina

Matt Sammekull
01-04-2004, 12:20 PM
Nice going there Zar!!!!

So... which palette set-up did you use?

//matt

Zarathustra
01-04-2004, 12:28 PM
Thanks Tina. This method of painting is very new to me, for the most part I am trying to lay down a stroke and just leave it be. With the bristle brushes the paint comes off onto the canvas very easily - I'm used to fighting it off the brushes!

Matt, there are few more umbers and yellow ochre's in the background / foreground than is visible in the photos - looks like I've made a monochrome painting with a coloured figure, which isn't the case. I basically used ivory black, titanium white, burnt umber and yellow ochre.
For the hair and very, very subtly for the cheeks and a couple of areas on the body, I've used a tiny bit of cad red light mixed with cad orange...

guillot
01-04-2004, 02:30 PM
Yep Z - bristles have a quality all their own, huh?

Cathleen? What size is your panel? I don't have any off sized canvases, and I sure don't have the stuff to make my own - at least not all of it but I have plenty of canvas around here.

I'm going to use a 22 x 28 - that's as close as I'll get with what I've got - I know that's some kind of whacked-out ratio. 16.5 x 12 would be half sized. I'll just have to improvise a little on the top or bottom, and a little to the left and right. Does that make any sense?

Tina

artbabe21
01-04-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by guillot
I don't have any off sized canvases, and I sure don't have the stuff to make my own - at least not all of it but I have plenty of canvas around here.


Tina, it shouldn't matter much since you are just doing a portion of the painting not the whole...correct? Just the statue as I recall...or have you changed your mind?

guillot
01-06-2004, 08:37 AM
Tina, it shouldn't matter much since you are just doing a portion of the painting not the whole...correct? Just the statue as I recall...or have you changed your mind?

Hey - OK, this is different with the new website enhancements :)

Of course, I've changed my mind LOL - us females do that quite often, huh? I've decided to attempt the whole thing. Should be an enlightening experience :)

Thanks Cathleen,
Tina

Matt Sammekull
01-06-2004, 09:15 AM
On changing ones mind:

- us females do that quite often, huh?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


... But I sure do love you even so!

My God, how boring life would be without you women who makes everything so beautiful!

//matt

guillot
01-06-2004, 09:56 AM
:o Thanks Matt

I've just decided that I had better do the whole thing on this one. So, let me get my palette straight:

Burnt Umber
Yellow Ochre
Ivory Black
Cad Red/Cad Orange (or vermillion)
White

Am I missing something here? Hmmm - at work and thinking of too much at one time.

Tina

Matt Sammekull
01-06-2004, 10:00 AM
Hey there "something special".

I believe you'll do fine with that palette!

Good luck!

//matt

artbabe21
01-06-2004, 10:23 AM
Hey, I am not getting any email notifications still! Anyone else?

Super Tina....now you're going to do the entire painting? Actually is doesn't look as intimidating as before we got a few sketches & underpaintings up here!

TeAnne
01-06-2004, 10:41 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=76723 Am I supposed to post this here? No uploader yet, so I have to attatch.

guillot
01-06-2004, 10:49 AM
Hey TeAnne - great start !!

Thanks Matt :) :angel:

Cathleen, I don't know 'bout the e-mail notifications - I'm at work and shouldn't be on here LOL Anyway, the sketch wasn't intimidating at all for me - I've completed a rough sketch to begin with AND THEN my stupid battery went dead in my digital camera! You know - that's how it always goes :) So - gotta get a new battery for that. I think I'm more intimidated by everyone elses beautiful work up to this point LOL ;) So many beautiful starts here. Looking forward to applying some paint :)

Later guys,
Tina

artbabe21
01-06-2004, 11:18 AM
Anyway, the sketch wasn't intimidating at all for me -

((Tina)), I was meaning for other people who 'think' they may want to join--it could look intimidating to paint a master but it's broken down into beautiful works already that don't seem daunting!!

Te--did you see the loader below for attachments (manage attachments?)...none of this is final--we'll get our countries back, etc...it's all on vacation to quote Scott.

TeAnne
01-06-2004, 11:25 AM
lol Did you see my attatchment in the post? :D

guillot
01-06-2004, 11:30 AM
=artbabe21 it could look intimidating to paint a master but it's broken down into beautiful works already that don't seem daunting!!


Absolutely!! I hope everyone eventually comes on board here that was interested in this years activities with MOM. I've just had a slow start to the new year, LOL

Now, I know mine will not look as good as Matt's or Z's :evil: :D (you guys ROCK!! ) But that's OK - we are all at different levels in our work. It's a learning experience and a great opportunity :) Can't pass that up ;)

Tina

Zarathustra
01-06-2004, 12:16 PM
Get out of here Tina - your work's are of exhibition quality! ;)
Not always good to compare other people's styles and ways of painting.

I'm not sure what to think to the new WC layout. I like look and feel more (I think), but what's all this thumbnail business about? I guess it helps people like myself, whose modem crawls along like a tortoise.

I had another stab at the figure a couple of days ago, but created a sort of mud, so I've stopped what I was doing and will give it another try at the weekend. It's hard going.
I've included a couple of close ups.

TeAnne
01-06-2004, 12:22 PM
Looks good to me Zara

guillot
01-06-2004, 01:16 PM
Get out of here Tina - your work's are of exhibition quality! ;)
Not always good to compare other people's styles and ways of painting.

I've included a couple of close ups.

No Z :D Wasn't comparing others styles and ways, just joking around :p You guys are remarkable and I Appreciate the compliment :angel: I knew I would get a remark or a slap on the hand from one of you for that, LOL

Hopefully, these thumbnails aren't permanent with the changes. I know the uploader will be back on here shortly - Scott is still doing some work. Really like your closeups Z !! So, you're getting some mud, huh? That's what I'm afraid of - with these palette choices. I did tone my canvas gray to begin with - and have my rough sketch completed - enough to give it a whack anyway. So, I'm ready to go but need to get a battery for the dig. camera first for progress shots.

Tina

Zarathustra
01-06-2004, 01:24 PM
Thanks TeAnne,

Tina... For the foreground, I don't think it matters if you mix too much mud, because then you're closer to the texture of clay. :)
My figure went very muddy though and looks worse for it.

I'm warming towards the thumbnail idea. Some threads (e.g. Shows us your easel...) take an age to load!

xaenee
01-06-2004, 02:15 PM
Hi. Forgive me if I missed this in the earlier posts (which I probably did), but I was wondering... Exactly what is the size of the original painting?

Matt Sammekull
01-06-2004, 02:17 PM
Hi.

All info is to be found in the very first post.

"In Wikströms studio", oil on canvas 1889, 82x60 cm (33x24")

//matt

xaenee
01-06-2004, 02:23 PM
Hi.

All info is to be found in the very first post.

"In Wikströms studio", oil on canvas 1889, 82x60 cm (33x24")

//matt


Hehe.. forgive. It seems that it would have been there the whole time. Perhaps I should get away from this dreadful computer screen! Thanks.

-Samantha

artbabe21
01-06-2004, 03:09 PM
welcome to the project Samantha! Look forward to seeing you share your work on it when you can.......:)

JamieWG
01-06-2004, 04:39 PM
I'm warming towards the thumbnail idea. Some threads (e.g. Shows us your easel...) take an age to load!

Gavin, I generally don't even look at that thread for just that reason. The thumbnails will solve so many problems. I think it is very exciting! Many threads, like the Easel thread and these MOM threads, can now run like projects and load so much faster. A click on the thumbnail will display the full image. Ingenious!

Jamie

artbabe21
01-06-2004, 04:57 PM
Gavin, I generally don't even look at that thread for just that reason.

Jamie, it doesn't seem to bother most people for at 5 days old the 'What's on your Easel' thread has 58 posted works and 1,092 views. Last months was over 11,000 views... Personally I thought they loaded very quickly.......now we will have to do it each individually & with multiple images click on each one at a time...oh, change! :eek:

JamieWG
01-06-2004, 05:34 PM
Jamie, it doesn't seem to bother most people for at 5 days old the 'What's on your Easel' thread has 58 posted works and 1,092 views.

Cath, that's my point. In spite of the fact that at least Gavin and I (surely there are others too) have had lots of wait time with that thread, members are finding it worth the wait to participate. So imagine how many will participate now, if it has been sped up a bit, as is hoped for with this new format! (Gavin is just more patient than I am. ;) )

Jamie

kjsspot
01-06-2004, 06:18 PM
now we will have to do it each individually & with multiple images click on each one at a time...oh, change! :eek:

Yeah, I'm less than thrilled with that one as well. For me at least, it makes the thread longer. Before I could let it load while doing other things. Now I'll have to click each and every TN to view it. It's going to really make the viewing procedure longer for me at least. :(

Zarathustra
01-06-2004, 06:19 PM
Jamie, I usually have half a dozen or more explorer windows open at once, so I just leave the thread to load in its own time! :) Does take an absolute age though... not everyone has broadband... yet!

artinoils
01-06-2004, 06:43 PM
I find this too daunting to read and get through all these pages to see everyones work and progress...and it's only the beginning of the month.
I would like to make a suggestion for future months...put it in project form so we have the option of viewing the work quickly and finished work all on one page if desired and then comment.
I would like to see the same for the "what's on your easel" threads and others like it that become too cumbersome to wade through.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

guillot
01-06-2004, 07:17 PM
OK folks, a lot of the slowness today is in account of the new changes - there is a thread here in the oils forum to discuss your woes. Give Scott a chance to work through the problems that have been addressed to him, and other things that he said he still had to complete.

I have broadband and here at home, yes it's slower today than usual - doesn't have anything to do with the thumbnails or pictures - everyone is experiencing slow loads - some slower than others. Everything should be back to normal soon. I would also like to say to those that are having such difficult problems on the site when pictures are loading - you probably need to clean your cookies and temporary internet folders out - that will slow down your computer if you don't. Good Maintenance on a computer is good practice - prevents crashing, and slow loading web pages and such. Everytime I see things slowing down on mine - I clean it up. You wouldn't believe the crap children's websites put on your computer either - yikes! Anyway - go to the thread Matt started this morning about the changes and voice your opinions there. :) I'll give Scott a link later so that he can respond if he wishes or address anything he feels that he needs to. If he doesn't respond - it would only be because someone else has already brought the issues to his attention.

Hi artinoils - I forgot to say that these threads for MOM, and the What's on your easel thread is not in the project system for a reason. These are activities that are directly associated with the oils forum and the people who frequent the oils forum. These are not "projects" and we have refrained from defining them as such because eventhough you may put "medium specific" in the project threads, there are still those that will put drawings, acrylics, etc. etc. in there and those threads to become too cumbersome - like the "Paintings for a year" thread and the Post card project earlier last year. We all discussed the format of these "activities" because they are "monthly activities" and all agreed that this is the way they would be done.

Now - to get back on subject:

My rough sketch (got batteries :) ) I've toned the canvas gray, did my rough sketch with charcoal and notice (if you can even see it good - couldn't get a good picture) I haven't went to extreme details with her face. I will tackle that while painting. Main purpose for me here is to get placement of all the major subjects in the painting first - then I'm painting :)

Tina

TeAnne
01-06-2004, 07:23 PM
Coooooool
Not being picky but you and I seem to both have probs with the right boob. Your's looks too high like mine does. It might fall into place with colour.
I tinted mine with red/yellow/burnt umber acrylic then wiped it off. I forgot to mention it, sorry.

artbabe21
01-06-2004, 07:29 PM
Nice one Tina!! Those breasts don't even resemble torpedos...lol...your words.
Goodonya...I think they say!! :)

guillot
01-06-2004, 07:37 PM
Nice one Tina!! Those breasts don't even resemble torpedos...lol...your words.
Goodonya...I think they say!! :)


ROFL - I've never painted nude female breasts - so I'll take that as a compliment, LOL At least they aren't humongous or something like what would need a "Penny Marshall" bra (The True Painful Torpedo BRA) - ROFLMAO

Hi TeAnne - I know there's something about that right boob! We'll see if they work out in the paint, huh? Thanks for the reply.

For problems with the new site changes, please post here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/channels.php?s=&channel_id=5

Thanks everyone :)

Tina

Paul Mesken
01-07-2004, 12:57 AM
Hi TeAnne - I know there's something about that right boob! We'll see if they work out in the paint, huh? Thanks for the reply.


I wouldn't wait that long :) Her right breast is not placed too high, her shoulder is placed too low. Check it out : in the Zorn picture the corner of her shoulder is just above her chin line.

Zarathustra
01-07-2004, 02:20 AM
The slowness I experience is not due to Wetcanvas and technical issues, but a 56k modem, which is still quite common (at least here in the UK)... I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think the use of thumbnails in the MOM project is of great benefit to us slow surfers. :)

Matt Sammekull
01-07-2004, 02:54 AM
Hey Zar.

I didn't know you were on 56k. I'm surprised to hear that, and now I admire your patience!

Have you tweaked your modem in any way?

//matt

Control Freak
01-07-2004, 04:07 AM
Hi All
First post in the new system - which seems faster today!
This is my limited progress - my criticism of myself is that i definitely started this too small (8x6 inch!) and that the clay gray is all wrong:
Thanks for any critique
Phil

guillot
01-07-2004, 09:04 AM
I wouldn't wait that long :) Her right breast is not placed too high, her shoulder is placed too low. Check it out : in the Zorn picture the corner of her shoulder is just above her chin line.

Hiya Paul - Will look closer when I begin painting. It's just a rough sketch - and these things can be corrected in the painting. By rough - I do mean rough - I take the charcoal and just go for it - main thing for me is placement, not a completely correct drawing, and as long as I have things in the general vicinity - I'm ok. Thanks for the eye on the shoulder!! :)

Control Freak- you've got a great start there. I can imagine it would be a bit challenging at 8 x 6 !! I've never painted on anything smaller than a 16 x 20 ! Well, with the exception of one texture study with eggshells ! :D

Tina

Zarathustra
01-07-2004, 12:44 PM
Are there changes to WC - I notice some people are posting images that are not thumbnails, or they simply linked externally?


Can you tweak a 56k modem, or are you talking supposed software enhancements Matt?
How's your Zorn shaping up? You were off to a great start.


Control Freak - you're a brave man! 8x6 - well you're off to a good start, I hope the size doesn't cause you hardship later on.

Control Freak
01-07-2004, 12:54 PM
Hi Z

re. the uploader see Matt's post - something to do with customising your own interface?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157927

Having said that - i didnt change anything it changed itself overnight?

The size of my piece may cause heartache but given the size of my temporary bedsit it fits quite well!!

Phil

guillot
01-07-2004, 01:44 PM
Mine changed overnight too ! It was a thumbnail.

Tina

Matt Sammekull
01-07-2004, 04:13 PM
Hey there all you modern day masters of the noble craft of oil painting!

Heck... this was hard!!! I copied loads of masters before, and never have I encountered such difficulties. How delicately Zorn used Vermilion, and ochre to create values in gray! (with the white and black of course!!)

I'm on my second attempt now... scraped down number one and covered the panel with a pale red-gray toning.

The gloves are off mr Zorn! Watch out... - cause here I come! :evil:

Cheers everyone!!!
//matt

Matt Sammekull
01-08-2004, 04:46 PM
Yoo-hooo?!

Anyone there?

Where did you go?

... hrm... everyone's lost but me!

//matt

artbabe21
01-08-2004, 04:58 PM
Hey there all you modern day masters of the noble craft of oil painting!

Heck... this was hard!!! I copied loads of masters before, and never have I encountered such difficulties.

I'm here......but you said the H word....<sob> 'hard'.... so I am putting it off another day!

Naw, it doesn't scare me....just getting stuff together for a watercolor workshop tomorrow & week end....something I signed up for over a month ago for after the new year! So I am excited to learn something new...but oils is my heart, always!! :D How's yours coming? Working on it?

Zarathustra
01-08-2004, 05:37 PM
You say that now Cathleen, but you'll soon be leaving us for the dark side. :crying: Oils should be on the canvas, not in the heart. ;) Stick with it, I know you'll do a great job. :)

Incidentally I have to confess that my past few paintings have been watercolours and not oils. :evil:

JamieWG
01-08-2004, 05:43 PM
Yoo-hooo?!

Anyone there?

Where did you go?

... hrm... everyone's lost but me!

//matt

Hi Matt! Well I'm here, eagerly awaiting your second attempt. I've got four portraits to do asap, so don't know if I'll be a contributor, but I'm looking forward to seeing everybody's paintings and playing a "cheerleader" role. :)

Jamie

artbabe21
01-08-2004, 06:48 PM
Incidentally I have to confess that my past few paintings have been watercolours and not oils. :evil:

LOL....Gavin! Never to the dark side! Oil is in my bloood too....lol

How is your painting coming along? It's been fun to watch these starts!

Jamie, we always need cheerleaders, I know you have a lot going but if you find time between the kazillion things you do please do join us!! :)

guillot
01-08-2004, 07:29 PM
Well, I've been here! Looking everyday, learning and watching - although that has been a somewhat really slow process over the past few days! I really love the site changes though.

So, OK Matt - you are the guide here my friend. Is my rough sketch OK with you Master Matt? LOL I'm kinda scared to proceed myself. See you have scraped off and are working with a toned canvas now too? A red-ish gray toned canvas? That sounds very intriguing! That's part of the reason why I haven't proceeded (besides, of course the fact that you haven't blessed my rough sketch, LOL JK) is that I'm looking at my gray-toned canvas, and a picture of the painting, and doing much too much overthinking most likely, and continuing to think that I see so many grays there, with possible some wiping out with a rag, but that maybe gray wasn't the right choice, and I bet that YOU are going to be spot on with that for some reason. (GAWD - look how long that sentence is !! LOL ) SRBWTI (seriously rambling but with true intent)

I agree ((Cathleen)) - I play around with those Watercolors everynowandagain too, but you'd better do this or I'm going to have to take a snow-hike to Montana to kicketh thee butt. :)

Jamie, - hope you find the time as well.

Tina

dcorc
01-08-2004, 09:41 PM
Yoo-hooo?!

Anyone there?

Where did you go?

... hrm... everyone's lost but me!

//matt

Still here, lurking furtively! :)

Preparing to have go number two at this, more considered, with thin washy oils and using the better coloured ref image

In the famous words of the governator "I'll be back!" :cool:

Dave

Rosic
01-08-2004, 09:55 PM
Thought I’d join in on the fun. I must confess that I am a beginning beginner when it comes to oils. I am quite intimidated by the talent in this forum and feel like a kid riding with out training wheels for the first time as I post this drawing. I need you guys to hold my hand every step of the way if you don’t mind... you know... putting up with dumb questions and giving honest critiques, etc. I decided this was the year I paint and what better way to start than with the MOM project. I will have the knowledge and talent of you guys at my finger tips plus the fact that I am held accountable to produce something every month. Thanks in advance for having and helping me.
Rosic

Charcoal sketch on 8x10 gessoed panel

artbabe21
01-08-2004, 10:00 PM
Welcome to the project Rosic! :) Glad you decided to give this a try! All of us are learning together so please don't feel intimidated at all and ASK away! We want this to be like a virtual classroom! :D

Rosic
01-08-2004, 10:11 PM
Welcome to the project Rosic! :) Glad you decided to give this a try! All of us are learning together so please don't feel intimidated at all and ASK away! We want this to be like a virtual classroom! :D

Thanks Cathleen... I'm looking forward to making lasting friendships here. :)

TeAnne
01-09-2004, 02:51 AM
I had a go. Are we allowed to sell this on ebay?
I hate it :( I can honestly say "Not my style"

Zarathustra
01-09-2004, 03:18 AM
Hi Rosic, I haven't see you around for a while. Oils certainly aren't charcoal, but hang in there, your drawing skills will get you through, and there's plenty of good advice from some very skilled painters here in this forum. Look forward to watching the progress.


Cath - haven't done any more painting yet, but perhaps I will get a chance this weekend. I've taken on a freelance photography job and so am visiting a number of towns and cities capturing the "spritit" of the places. I'm holding out for some sunny weather - I'm optimistic!!! :D

Matt Sammekull
01-09-2004, 03:46 AM
So there you are!!

Cath, - I hope your weekend turns out great! If you stumble across any cool secrets on watercolors, tell us will you!?

Jamie, - goodie! A cheerleader is always welcome!

Tina, - I think your sketch looks great, so yes - it is blessed by me! Don't worry about the color of your toning!!!!! Just paint... and focus on the relationship between the actual colors you apply to your canvas, and not only do compare them with the ref pic. It is your eyes which should make the call if it's good or not, - not herr Zorn's.

Dave - Good luck on #2! I also (for my second attempt) used thinned out paint for the background, using turpentine.

And Bern!!! - Ahh... you know how glad I am to see you here! Welcome!!!! (And many congratulations to you-know-what!!!)
The initial sketch look great... now do you have what it takes to squeeze out some of that marvelous, but oh so intimidating oil paint on your palette? nI know you do! We are all here with you!
All the best.

Teanne- I love the fact that I'm able to see you in your Zorn version! It's very Cezanné-ish, ot I should say TeAnne-ish! Good work.

Hey Zar! - So, a photographer huh? Sounds like a cool gig. Will you be reading up on the various towns you'll visit, or just catch your first impressions?
Good luck to ya!

Cheers everyone! Happy painting!!!!

And remember that it's ok to fail. It's really a lot of fun to paint anyways... just remember to look at your canvas/panel as a piece of art on it's own, and not too much as a copy. We will never succeed in making perfect copies throughout this year... so let's leave those hopes behind.

//matt

Control Freak
01-09-2004, 04:11 AM
Hi Rosic,
Welcome to Oils!
Good to see you around again - I've been mostly residing here lately!
From a begining-beginner to a begining-beginner I can say there is an awful lot of knowledge to 'exploit' in this forum.
(Perhaps that statement highlights my lack of knowledge!?)
A good starting sketch - looking forward to more.

Teanne,
I quite like it - and I know what you mean by 'not my style'. I find it one thing to appreciate a painting like this - a completely different game to copy one!
One comment for me (with the figure as a strong focus) is that her right breast has lost some definition.

Phil

TeAnne
01-09-2004, 05:33 AM
Teanne,
I quite like it - and I know what you mean by 'not my style'. I find it one thing to appreciate a painting like this - a completely different game to copy one!
One comment for me (with the figure as a strong focus) is that her right breast has lost some definition.

Phil
Hi Phil
Thanks. The right boob gave me hell. I've already set about changing colours etc. lol

vanityfaire
01-09-2004, 06:55 AM
you are all awesome. I have been lurking through WC and love it. I would like to cheer lead as well.Go Team!! :clap:

TeAnne
01-09-2004, 08:12 AM
Here's the update.

Rosic
01-09-2004, 08:44 AM
Thanks everyone for the encouragement and faith... guess I'll go squeeze a tube as Matt would say.

Nice job Te!

Rosic

Matt Sammekull
01-09-2004, 08:57 AM
Hey.

A small pic of where I'm at right now... I completed the background, but the photo I took of it was really poor, so I cropped it.

Good luck B!!!

//matt

JamieWG
01-09-2004, 09:05 AM
Here's the update.

Dear TeAnne Zorn,
I too see a lot of you in this painting, and that is a good thing! I think you have captured the essence, yet in your own style, with a fine result.

(I sure do miss seeing the photos when in Reply Mode. It's much more difficult to comment without that capability!)

Matt, I love your warm toning. It adds a lot to the character of the painting, making it beautifully inviting.

Rosic, I'm so glad you will join in! 'Looking forward to seeing your painting.

Jamie

TeAnne
01-09-2004, 09:24 AM
Thanks Jamie. I have a bid on it on Ebay :D

Mat, I love your b/ground. You are a tight painter hey? I like tight and loose. I love paintings :D

loop
01-09-2004, 10:49 AM
Thanks Jamie. I have a bid on it on Ebay :D

:D
wow we can sell these ?? do you have a link I am interested in how you marketed a copy, which i think turned out just fine BTW. It amazes me that all of us will end up with something totally different and we are all copying the same thing

edit: duh ..nevermind , I just scrolled up and saw you link to your e-bay auctions.

Matt Sammekull
01-09-2004, 11:11 AM
Hi!

Loop, - you can sell these like any other painting you have done. Just add the info that it's after Anders Zorn, and don't use the exact same size as the original.

Here's a better pic of mine:

Cheers,

/matt

loop
01-09-2004, 04:03 PM
Hi!

Loop, - you can sell these like any other painting you have done.
/matt



huh..I guess that means I CAN'T sell it... :D

your background looks super matt !! I have been VERY ill with some sort of stomach thing, so hopefully I'll get to play this weekend after a few non-painting weeks

Zarathustra
01-09-2004, 05:36 PM
Loop, you'll have no problems selling it, Zorn's been dead for a while. ;)

huh..I guess that means I CAN'T sell it... :D

your background looks super matt !! I have been VERY ill with some sort of stomach thing, so hopefully I'll get to play this weekend after a few non-painting weeks

TeAnne
01-09-2004, 05:50 PM
Seening as we're using the "master" images, I persumed them dead, I did ask if we could sell on ebay and got no answer so, I thought I would give it a go anyway. As long as "After" so & so is said, normally it's okay.

kjsspot
01-09-2004, 06:27 PM
Lookin' good Matt!

Congrats on the bid Te! Mine will be going up on eBay as well with homage given to Zorn. Ozog just shipped out my Vermillion today! :clap: I can't wait to get it and get started!

xaenee
01-09-2004, 09:42 PM
Hi everyone! All of your paintings are looking great. I just wanted to take a minute to post my progress. I had planned on blocking in some color tonight, but my daughter had different plans for me. We broke out the Crayolas instead. It is really fun to watch everyone's progress.

-Samantha

(I hope this attachment comes through ok... the first time I have posted work since the new format)

TeAnne
01-09-2004, 09:56 PM
:D I see you didn't have a fight with that right boob :clap:

guillot
01-10-2004, 04:15 PM
Wow! Everyone is doing so great :) Here's an update on mine - 20 minutes into painting. I didn't worry too much with my drawing, but wanted to do more "drawing" with the brush as I went. To me, I feel an importance in getting the background real close to begin with, the chair, and I believe there is a vase in the right corner under that window - so I may be improvising there, don't know but I like it there anyway. So far, this is a wash in various colors, with some wiping, and yes I need to tone down the seat of that chair :) Fun so far !! This is bad picture folks, will try to get one outside later, this one is too dark.

Tina

guillot
01-10-2004, 05:04 PM
Maybe this is a better picture, hope so anway. Few more minutes work. I see that I'm going to have to correct the chair - it's shape is off - no big deal just yet.

Tina

guillot
01-10-2004, 07:05 PM
OK - now I feel like a thread hogger guys, LOL Everyone must be very busy painting or something.

I think this picture may be better. I keep looking and thinking - wow, so monochrome, and I know when I put down the skin tones, everything will come in line - very interesting!! I really love the vermillion - and I am using vermillion instead of mixing cad red and cad orange. If I can get everything down on the canvas like I want to today, then I can let this dry, and go back over it with some thicker textures here and there, refine some shadows, etc. THIS is moving very quickly for me - what a change of pace!! What do you guys think so far?

Back to edit: Wow, I just can't get a good true color picture at this point!! This is my last update posting until tomorrow. I took this one outside, but the colors just aren't coming through very well :(

Tina

artbabe21
01-10-2004, 10:16 PM
Nice going Tina! You're getting there!! Sounds like you are having a lot of fun with this & are totally stress free! :) I think that chair is lookin' real good and you are moving along nicely!! :clap:

argghh......now I better get busy....Gavin, you were right my friend...I am attracted to the dark side (those watercolors) had a really terrific workshop.
Interestingly enough I was having LESS trouble mixing colors for that than I do in oils...go figure!! :confused:

TeAnne
01-11-2004, 01:47 AM
Tina, it's looking really good. You have so much patience. I couldn't wait to slap mine on as fast as I could cos I hated doing it. Your detail is very good :clap: :clap:

guillot
01-11-2004, 02:27 AM
Hi ((Cathleen)) - thanks :) I'm actually almost finished with it I believe :) Granted some of my values are off here and there, and I have some color adjustments to make in the last layer, but I'm very proud of myself at this point. What an intimidating Master to follow, but yet such a fun master to follow. I've learned so much already with this exercise - a real eye - opener!! He has opened my eyes to looseness in my work (the key here for me was to NOT making my drawing so tight because I tend to paint more realistically if my drawings or sketches are tight), and so far I've mixed my colors almost effortlessly (although at this point they are not perfect - but they are so very close, and I know in those final layers I'll be able to pull that through). Sorry for gloating - but this really has been a great exercise so far and I've learned so much from it already. I just love stuff like this :) and I'm so excited to get through this.

TeAnne, actually from my last post, I had only done at that point about 1 1/2 hours work on it, I've done maybe 'bout 30 minutes more on it and I'm almost finished! The last layer of course will be thicker here and there where necessary and some final color adjustments, etc. For me - that's fast - I'm used to spending weeks and months on the completion of an oil painting because I have more of a tendency to paint realistically and tight than loose like Zorn. I can't wait for February's! Who is it BTW? :)

Came back to edit: OK, I said I wouldn't post till tomorrow, but this pic may just be OK. Almost done with the first layer out of two. Posted Below

Thanks!!

Tina

Zarathustra
01-11-2004, 03:38 AM
Cath, yes that is a little strange. ;) :) When watercolours dry the colours seem to want to do their own thing; I've always found that aspect difficult. I'm glad it's working out for you... Have you posted anything in the watercolour forum yet?


Tina - very well done! :clap: There's some very nice elements in your work, and completed in a record time. Now I have to ask, do you think the experience will alter how you paint from here on?

TeAnne
01-11-2004, 04:21 AM
Came back to edit: OK, I said I wouldn't post till tomorrow, but this pic may just be OK. Almost done with the first layer out of two. Posted Below

Thanks!!

Tina
I wish I could see this bigger, it looks very buttery :D Yummy

guillot
01-11-2004, 05:06 AM
Tina - very well done! :clap: There's some very nice elements in your work, and completed in a record time. Now I have to ask, do you think the experience will alter how you paint from here on?


Hi Z - not completed yet!! I've corrected her "rib cage area" and softened the line in her belly button area - This is my first female (1/2) nude and figure so I see I do have some other things to fix as well . It's coming along, but I still have tonal/color corrections to make and some shapes here and there, so I'll have to wait until all of this dries for the second layer. Will this "alter how I paint from here on?" - don't know, but have learned so much just from this one experience - like how quicklly you can capture a good background with good washes, a rag for some wiping, etc. Trying to get the brush stroke properly placed without having to disturb it (granted quite a few of my strokes are way off ;) ) But that's OK - Yes, I think it will "alter" some of my future painting. Thanks for the reply :)

((Cathleen)) I'm sure you are having fun with those watercolors!! They can be hard to control !!

TeAnne, thanks - not probably as thick as some areas appear. I've actually done good on paint. The second layers will have more texture and more paint, at least that's what I have in my head for right now anyway :D

Tina

Zarathustra
01-11-2004, 05:42 AM
Ooops, sorry Tina! Well, if that's the case, I look forward to watching it develop. One word of warning from my personal experience. Sometimes subsequent refinements can be regressive, and you might wonder if it wasn't better before you reworked specific areas. :) I'm sure yours will come out wonderfully. Somehow I turned my figure into mud.

Matt Sammekull
01-11-2004, 07:00 AM
Hi guys.

Tina, I think you have done a terrific job, so far... I also painted the chair as a full chair, and not pieces of a chair as the ref pic suggests. I think it looks better this way.

Zar, - mud again huh? Try to mix up the exact color you need on your palette, place it down on the panel/canvas and then leave it. You could search around in the ref pic for other areas that needs the same color, and apply these as well. But don't touch them again!
Then mix your new color, one that is found next to the first one in the ref.pic, apply this with a clean brush and do not interfere with the previous paint. Place them next to each other, and don't touch them!

Continue with this and you will pretty soon have the entire figure filled with colored planes/shapes. No need to use more than three to five of them.

THEN, search for areas where you need to add more blood= more red/orange and where you need to ad more light=highlights and reflected light. Place those on the canvas/panel with a clean brush, and do not touch!

The very last thing you could do is start to work with the edges... where are they sharp, lost, broken and so on? But don't over-do it!

Good luck Sire Zar.

I think it would be great that every one of us summarize what we picked up during the month and post it for everyone to read!!! It should turn out to be a wealth of good information!!!

//matt

Zarathustra
01-11-2004, 07:25 AM
Hi Matt,

I just mixed the one batch of mud, haven't worked on the painting since that time. I shall try the 'paint and leave well alone' technique; it was easy enough for the background/foreground, but far more difficult for the figure. Portraying an impressionistic, yet not unattractive face will be the hardest obstacle in all of this.

A summary from everybody who takes their MOM effort as far as they can take it, is a good suggestion.

JamieWG
01-11-2004, 03:47 PM
Hey, everybody's doing great. I really miss uploaded images when I go to reply to paintings I see! I've finally figured out that the best thing to do is to open a second window to display the thread with the paintings while replying.

Tina, that's coming along nicely. I especially like the big brushstrokes on the foreground statue. They really capture the energy of the strokes of the original.

TeAnne, like you I don't have a whole lot of fun copying! I like working from life best, then photos next, and copying somebody else's work last. I learned that about myself from portrait/figure drawing books, which ask you to do studies that copy the author's drawings or paintings. I'd rather practice from a photo reference or from life, using their techniques. But I understand the reasoning behind doing the copies too, and it is surely beneficial.

Samantha, the sketch looks great. 'Looking forward to seeing color.

Rosic, do you have an update for us yet?

Gavin, what is your palette for this painting? Can you isolate a color that's causing the mud?

Matt, how is yours coming along? I just love that pinky violet poking through the WIP. I keep flipping back to look. :) I've been toning all my landscape canvases that color for about two years. I mix it into the gesso.

Jamie the Cheerleader

Zarathustra
01-11-2004, 03:55 PM
Hi Jamie. The palette's very basic, it was just a case of playing around with the brushwork too much... maybe not so much mud as simply 'untidy'.

Rosic
01-11-2004, 04:04 PM
Rosic, do you have an update for us yet?
Jamie the Cheerleader
Why I sure do Jamie... keep cheering us on! :clap:

Can anyone suggest what colors I use for the skin tones? (remember I don't even qualify as a beginner yet) :confused: LOL!

So far I am using the palette Matt laid out for us on page one.
Thanks in advance...
Rosic

JamieWG
01-11-2004, 04:12 PM
Why I sure do Jamie... keep cheering us on! :clap:

Can anyone suggest what colors I use for the skin tones? (remember I don't even qualify as a beginner yet) :confused: LOL!

So far I am using the palette Matt laid out for us on page one.
Thanks in advance...
Rosic

Rosic, I like the textural look that you're getting on the skirt. Seems you're off to a fine beginning with your color stage. Be careful that the blending of the white doesn't get too pasty-looking. Matt made some great comments about avoiding the muddied look. I think your idea to stick with the flesh tone recommendations is a good one. That will give you something to start with and then you can go on from there with trying other things. Thanks for sharing your update. Way to go! :D

jamie

Matt Sammekull
01-11-2004, 04:22 PM
Hey guys!

Thanks Jamie!!!!

Bernie, - Begin with a dab of white, add some red (a little bit only) then add a little ocher (a little only) and you will see a very Zorn'ish skin hue. From the you could add a tiny tiny bit of black to bring it down again, add moore red for blood and more ochre for yellow skin areas.
For his browns, he mixed red with black, but I never manage to get that right, so I use the Burnt Umber. If you play with your ochre and black you'll see what beautiful greens you can come up with.

I think you are off to an excellent start! And you are supposed to be a beginner?

As Jamie said, the trick with painting like Zorn, Sorolla, Sargent and Manet and so on, is to manage to leave the brushstroke alone once applied. Of course, it takes a lot of work before even applying it on the canvas. So, spend more time at the palette and less on the surface. Paint the brushstroke in the air - an inch away from the surface, so you can picture how it would look once actually applied.

It amazes me how much hard work the man put into his "seeming-so-effortless" paintings. Models have described how Zorn would sweat out of concentration, and sometimes even forgetting to breathe.
One model actually ran out of his studio butt-naked when she saw how Zorn just collapsed in front of her. She thought she somehow caused him to.. well to die.
He fainted, out of exhaustion.

All the best,

//matt

artbabe21
01-11-2004, 04:26 PM
I really miss uploaded images when I go to reply to paintings I see!

Jamie...as far as I understand that feature will return with the uploader when Scott gets to it, along with many other little things. I know what you mean, I miss it too!

Tina! WOW......I'm SO impressed...love the loosness of your strokes and your EDGES! Great going!! :)

Rosic...use the yellow w/a touch of vermillion w/white...I actually have not gotten into the flesh yet....what HAS everyone else done? Are you using umber into fleah mix for some skin shadows? Share people...please? :)

dcorc
01-11-2004, 04:47 PM
Back with start of go number 2!

OK, first time round I did no underdrawing at all, just went straight in with paint.

This time I'm trying something different - everyone else did some sort of underdrawing! (Purists are really going to need a lie down after this one - Linoxyn, Andrei, Classical Vince, just don't read this bit! ;) )

1. Took one really cr*ppy alkyd painting "after Zorn" and applied sandpaper to the surface in a rotary motion!

2. Applied a coat of Titanium White (Oh NO, not Titanium white!!!!! - but there's no lead in it!) and left it overnight to get tacky

3. Went into Photoshop, resized the ref image, flipped it horizontally, did Edge Detection on it, manipulated that a bit to clean it up, and printed it out as several sheets.

4. Drew along the lines on the printouts in charcoal, then applied these charcoal side down onto the tacky surface and smoothed them into place - this left an imprint on the surface.

5. Ran a dry bristle brush over the lines - this just pushes the charcoal down onto the surface fully, left overnight

6. quick Titanium White/turps wash over the top to seal in the charcoal before starting the painting proper, left overnight again.

This is just the 21st century equivalent of gridding up!

Dave

Rosic
01-11-2004, 04:50 PM
Thanks for the colors Matt and Cathleen!

Matt... I've already found out about that brush stroke technique of "Not knowing when to stop"... ahh man! Well some things are good to find out day one I guess.

Thanks for the help and encouragement everyone.
Rosic

coyote
01-11-2004, 05:41 PM
Yesterday, after dropping off 3 pieces for a juried show (I'll know Thursday night if any were accepted), I managed to get in some quality time at the easel. I kept avoiding the skin tones because all that I've learned didn't seem to apply here. The lights are warm, but the shadows aren't cool. All I can see is yellow, so finally I bit the bullet and started using yellow ochre and naples yellow. The deepest shadows are burnt umber. The arms have a bit more of a flesh tone, and for the reds in the arms and face I used terra rosa.
Today I'll tackle the skirt and work on the hair and background details.
Everybody is doing a bang-up job on this...it's really interesting to see the different interpretations of indistinct elements. :D

JamieWG
01-11-2004, 05:54 PM
Back with start of go number 2!

OK, first time round I did no underdrawing at all, just went straight in with paint.

Yeah, that's how I would have done it too. I'm sorry I did not comment on your first attempt. I've been having ISP problems, and now I don't think I'd be able to find it!

(Purists are really going to need a lie down after this one - Linoxyn, Andrei, Classical Vince, just don't read this bit! ;) ) ..........

This is just the 21st century equivalent of gridding up!

Dave

ROFLOL, Dave! Hey, this is supposed to be a copy, right? Sounds like you've found the way to cut to the chase! Go Dave, go! :D

Jamie

JamieWG
01-11-2004, 06:00 PM
All I can see is yellow, so finally I bit the bullet and started using yellow ochre and naples yellow.

Todd, this is a beautiful, beautiful job. I know what you mean about the yellows in that one reference pic. I suspect that the "truth" lies somewhere in the middle of the two references shown. Anyway, I love the smoothness of the flesh that you've achieved, and the rendering of the statues. Heck, I like the whole thing. Judging from your other work, the challenge for you will be to not overwork it! It's looking great so far. I can't imagine that you have much left to do before calling it finished. What size is it?

Good luck with the juried show. Let us know how it goes. If they don't take your paintings, well.....then they're idiots! :D

Jamie

TeAnne
01-11-2004, 06:56 PM
Todd, this is looking very good.
Dave, way to go :D

guillot
01-11-2004, 07:03 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments. Everyone is doing so great! Like your fleshtones Coyote!! Works well.

I'm with Z - I kept messing around with this thing early into the morning, trying to fix this and that, and I ended up with mud in my skin tones. Not a problem though, as I didn't have those tones correct to begin with and I plan on going back over key elements, tightening up a few things, including the lady, when this dries. Many things to fix if I would just quit licking it to death :) It's been really cloudy today, so I couldn't get a good pic, but here it is anyway until I get it completed.

Tina

artbabe21
01-11-2004, 07:59 PM
Amazing what you can do with a limited palette! You lost some Tina but over all you're sure getting there! :)

Terrific skin Todd...your work is superb!

TeAnne
01-11-2004, 08:40 PM
Tina, I'm loving the brilliant white. It might be distracting to others but gee, it tells me that there is "LIGHT" beaming into that room, it's almost spiritual. :clap: :clap: :clap:

DLGardner
01-11-2004, 09:33 PM
Hi guys (and gals) I'm here to jump in. I was all excited as I read the first 8 pages of this thread and when I got to this page I started faltering...I have no idea what Scott is doing with the site and hope it remains user-friendly because I hate reading instructions and trying to figure things out. I'd rather paint. I was a little shy about doing this one because of the nudity. Mind you have done many a nudes in my life but my husband doesn't understand art and I don't know if he would understand me doing this...hm. Well how are you other ladies tackling that problem?

Anyway...I definately am not doing full scale. My math is atrocious. I will try to photo shop it to a good small size to work.

As far as mud color goes...clay is mud so you might be ok.

Let's see what the future brings in this one.

Dianne

artbabe21
01-11-2004, 09:37 PM
Welcome Dianne!! I'm so glad you decided to join us in this project!! We ARE a bit on the chatty side between painting!! :) This thread is moving along!

TeAnne
01-11-2004, 09:39 PM
Mind you have done many a nudes in my life but my husband doesn't understand art and I don't know if he would understand me doing this...hm. Well how are you other ladies tackling that problem?

Dianne
Hi Dianne
I won't paint men's/women's private parts. The rest of the body I look at as just shapes, like a landscape of flesh :)

DLGardner
01-11-2004, 11:47 PM
Ok, forgive me if I'm not taking it quite as seriously as you all, but the way I figure it is if I shrink the painting to a 9 X 12, then a size 6 filbert makes a nice wide stroke and gets some nice results. So I have this little dinky painting but for me I'm warming up for February.

I also used a color primed canvas because its what I had laying around. I'm letting you all be the masters on this one and I'm just priming the pump, not expecting an exact replica. But I will keep working on it and hope to do a fairly decent rendition if miniature at that.

DLGardner
01-12-2004, 12:45 AM
Goodness where is everybody tonight?
(painting I bet).

Dianne

TeAnne
01-12-2004, 01:50 AM
Awesome, those colours are WOW. Mine is only a 10x12 or there abouts and I primed my canvas board too lol

DLGardner
01-12-2004, 02:04 AM
Finally another living human being tonight! Hi TeAnne. Did you finish yours? Did you post it? I must scroll back and see if I can see it.

I found the revised reference image also and am still trying to adjustmy painting to reflect the softer less yellow tones. I need to let it dry some and work on it tomorrow. Thanks for posting. I was getting lonely.

Dianne

guillot
01-12-2004, 08:05 AM
Tina, I'm loving the brilliant white. It might be distracting to others but gee, it tells me that there is "LIGHT" beaming into that room, it's almost spiritual. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks TeAnne, it just shows up here as "brilliant white". I can't get a good pic. I think I need a new camera, not sure, but it's actually a gray.

Thanks Cathleen for the comments!!!

Dianne - your painting is a beautiful rendition. I love the beautiful colors you always put into your works!!

Tina

jez_barracude
01-12-2004, 08:21 AM
Emboldened by the welcome given to another new person on this thread, I'm attaching my efforts so far - a charcoal tonal sketch and the initial drawing on my canvas (16" * 20"). Partly hoping this will spur me on to finish it - but this week I still have to finish painting some of my Christmas presents (oops!).

Great to see everyone's interpretations so far.
Jez

Matt Sammekull
01-12-2004, 08:33 AM
Great! It makes me happy to see so many folks getting involved in this project!


Diane, - It amazes me whenever I see an artist who whatever she or he paints, it looks like nothing else than a unique painting by a unique artist. You are one of those. Immediately I see you in this version of Zorn. Really good job if I may say.

Hey Jez!!! Welcome on board!! Off to a brilliant start here I see. And by the way... - Christmas has already passed???? ;)


I'm planning on getting some painting done later this evening.

Keep up the good work everyone!!!



//matt

JamieWG
01-12-2004, 09:21 AM
Jez, hey, welcome to Wetcanvas! Looks like you're off to a well-defined start, having done a value sketch and already mapped out your canvas. I should do those value sketches more often. I'm sure it will be a help to you as you apply color.

Dianne, I have to echo what Matt said. This painting has "Dianne" written all over it! I'd know those signature colors anywhere, and what a special way you have with them. So, we have a TeAnne Zorn and a Dianne Zorn. See if you can find TeAnne's painting back there. She also did one that is easily recognizable as coming from her brush. I've really enjoyed seeing your two painting personalities emerging in your Zorn renditions. Excellent!

Cathleen, are you doing one too?

Jamie

artbabe21
01-12-2004, 09:25 AM
WElcome Jez...terrific start! :)

Dianne, what Matt said is so true....though it's a Zorn replica, it has you written all over it!! :D

If my life slows down soon I will be getting myself in gear to paint mine...:)

EDIT...we cross posted Jamie...and used the exact words without even knowing it...LOL

loop
01-12-2004, 10:27 AM
By the way, I use thus version as a reference. I believe this is more to the original... less yellow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/15549-reference.jpg

//matt


Matt, you wouldn't happen to have a higher rez version of that you could e-mail me or put up at your web site ?

Matt Sammekull
01-12-2004, 10:34 AM
Hey Loop!

I'll give it a shot, but as I have to scan it from one of my books (a very small image) it might come out grainy and awful... but give me a minute or two and I'll know.

//matt

DLGardner
01-12-2004, 10:39 AM
:) Oh I get it...you all are morning people!

So what? I can't pass as a Zorn impersonator? Sigh. Well, I was thinking of using his colors but personally I can't stand yellow ochre. I just have a thing about it..and black? I don't do black either so there goes any hope of masquerading as this artist. (Actually I don't even own a tube of black paint. I do have a moonlight sonata or something like that...but its very transparent and is actually a combination of the colors I use for blackish anyway. Couldn't even do it if I wanted to at this point.) I love his results but I doubt I would be nearly as successful with it as he. Perhaps I will try secretly and see what happens...nah. I'm waiting for Sargeant. I have a few more things to do to this one anyway.

Thank you for the very kind comments. You make a person feel good! I can always use a boost at 7:39 in the morning. I love you guys.

Teanne, please give me a hint. About what page is your painting on?

Matt Sammekull
01-12-2004, 10:49 AM
Okay... the second version of ref.pic should be up at my site now. It's huuuge!

click here (http://user.tninet.se/~zju432s/MOM.htm)

Cheers,

//matt

JamieWG
01-12-2004, 10:53 AM
:) Oh I get it...you all are morning people!

Dianne, I am a night owl transformed against my will and Mother Nature's wishes into a <shudder> "morning person".

So what? I can't pass as a Zorn impersonator? Sigh. Well, I was thinking of using his colors but personally I can't stand yellow ochre. I just have a thing about it..and black? I don't do black either so there goes any hope of masquerading as this artist.

LOL, Dianne. Those were supreme compliments you received about having your own style. I don't think you should give it up for an instant! (Personally, I never use black either. Can't stand the stuff.....and I don't like it in Zorn's painting either! ;) )

Jamie

DLGardner
01-12-2004, 11:12 AM
LOL, Dianne. Those were supreme compliments you received about having your own style.
Oh I know Jamie and I am deeply flattered by all of those comments. I said it before but I say it again, thank you!

But on the other hand...if this were the OLD school I would be in very much trouble for not staying with the master's colors and trying to imitate him precisely. I've always been a bit rebellious and I have to admit it has caused me to not learn quite as much as I should. So if this is the sort of project that demands high attention to exactness, than I promise to apply myself a bit more than I did in this one. I realize here this learning technique is only what we ourselves make it and the freedom to use whatever we wish makes it a fun project...but if I really wanted to learn than I should get back to my palette and start mixing colors that I have never mixed before. I once saw a book that showed how artists study or used to study and there were five or six "apprentices" sitting around their master's paintings copying it to a tee and I couldn't see a difference in any one of their paintings. It was amazing!

We are working with a handicap here tho and that is due to our advanced technology; i.e. scan's; digital cameras; and computer monitor screens are very decieving and what colors my scanner scans and what colors your monitor delivers to you are probably completely different. So unless we were all in the same room looking at the same palette, none of us are really getting an exact image of the painting's actual colors.

That said, if I know that the paints used were yellow ochre and black and vermillion than I don't have an excuse.

But I did take your comments as high complements. Thank you.

coyote
01-12-2004, 11:53 PM
OK, I'm done. This was an enjoyable learning experience for me. Thank you Matt and everyone for the opportunity.
16x22, on stretched canvas.

DLGardner
01-12-2004, 11:59 PM
Wow coyote, this is gorgeous! I thought for a moment it was the original. You did a wonderful job. I do hope you will join us in February! :clap: :clap: :clap:

DLGardner
01-13-2004, 12:08 AM
TeAnne, I found your painting. It is absolutely lovely. Nice job! (I'm also visiting your ebay site right now).

Dianne

Matt Sammekull
01-13-2004, 02:08 AM
coyote; -This is a beautiful painting!! Great work! You should be very pleased with this effort. And don't thank me... we all thank you!

//matt

JamieWG
01-13-2004, 06:03 AM
Well Todd, I just knew it would be gorgeous, and I'm not at all disappointed! Superb job. I love the warmth that you've captured throughout, even in the foreground greys. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Jamie

Matt Sammekull
01-13-2004, 06:28 AM
Greetings!

So, I finished the back- and foreground last night, and this is how the panel looks this fine day. Just the figure left... which I look forward to. She is to me the only element of "real" color in this subdued and monochrome painting.

Cheers everyone!

//matt

Zarathustra
01-13-2004, 07:21 AM
I can tell you're loving this project Matt - it shows in your painting.

Was it a design decision to opt on going lighter for the foreground (sculpted leg and lump of clay)?

Matt Sammekull
01-13-2004, 07:28 AM
Yes sir, I do like it!

Not by choice... by "poor photography" or "lacking of PhotoShop skills" more likely.
I find this painting really hard to photograph, with all the light in it. It's actually quite like the ref.pic if you can imagine.
How'you doin?
Oh, on another topic... I've been recording some songs lately, playing around with all these delicious plug-ins found here and there, and I have a question. Do you add effects to your wave files (singing, guitars) before or after compression?

Cheers,

//matt

Zarathustra
01-13-2004, 07:38 AM
Camera's are good at playing with natural colours. :)
What you have is certainly looking excellent. I think your background tops Zorn's.

I've not worked on my own version again for a while. Maybe this weekend (I know I said that last weekend!)

I tend not to compress whenever I can help it, though sometimes I have to compress the vocals a little just so it can be heard over the loud guitars. I tend to compress and then use the plug-ins for subtle effects in Cubase.
How is your music shaping up - I want to listen!

TeAnne
01-13-2004, 07:44 AM
TeAnne, I found your painting. It is absolutely lovely. Nice job! (I'm also visiting your ebay site right now).

Dianne
Wow :) Thanks Dianne :)

Matt Sammekull
01-13-2004, 07:53 AM
Zar, -

I actually thought I could send you a song or two, icluding the separate original wav files so you could fool around with them if you wanted to, maybe add a litlle magic to it.

Chers,

//matt

Zarathustra
01-13-2004, 08:06 AM
Matt, you mean burn onto CD and sending it over? I could certainly have a play, and can return any mixes, though I would imagine you are as competent as myself with home-recording / mixing?
I'd certainly be interested in hearing the Swedish maestro at work.

JamieWG
01-13-2004, 08:34 AM
Greetings!

.......Just the figure left... which I look forward to. She is to me the only element of "real" color in this subdued and monochrome painting.

//matt

Well gee, Matt, I don't think the background looks subdued and monochrome at all, especially considering the reference you worked from. I think it's glowing! Great job. Looking forward to your rendering of the figure.

Jamie

Matt Sammekull
01-13-2004, 08:41 AM
Well gee, Matt, I don't think the background looks subdued and monochrome at all, especially considering the reference you worked from. I think it's glowing! Great job. Looking forward to your rendering of the figure.

Jamie

I admit... I had that one coming... but I meant more to say that there are such differences between back/foreground and figure. To me she represents a light... a flame or something...
I was thinking of that scene fro Schundlers list, a movie shot in black and white with the exception of the little girl in a bright red jacket we first see crossing a street, and later among hundreds of dead bodies in a mountain of corpses... sad...

Zar... I'm not a good, or even a decent guitar player, so I believe there's something you could add. You could rock it up a bit.

//matt

Zarathustra
01-13-2004, 08:44 AM
I could certainly add a bit of the old gui-tar to it. :evil:


I agree about the woman being the 'flame' out of the darkness, but there is always a danger that she can be too exagerrated and look a little divorced from her surroundings.

artbabe21
01-13-2004, 09:24 AM
Master Matt! Wow, it's coming along nicely.....what have you done with your background, yours looks like you have more paint...not just an underpainting?
:) Those stalks look VERY cool! Now we'll get to see that lovely model emerge!

Matt Sammekull
01-13-2004, 09:52 AM
Hey Cath!

The background? You mean that grey/pinkish color shown where the figure will be? That's the underpainting yes... applied very evenly.

//matt

artbabe21
01-13-2004, 10:24 AM
The background?
You mean that grey/pinkish color shown where the figure will be? That's the underpainting yes... applied very evenly.


No....the rest of it...the walls, window etc. Others still had a lot of strokes showing as if they have left the underpainting in places? I can see where the figure will emerge & that underpainting couldn't remain...:)

richlll
01-14-2004, 09:03 PM
Finally made time to start the January '04 MOM. I am working 24" x 36", with a detail also. I find this very hard to photograph as has already been mentioned. I am painting myself into a corner and will have to end up cropping the image.....but it is still fun. :D

Rich

coyote
01-14-2004, 10:39 PM
Wow, that clay looks really solid and...uh...rich, Rich! :D

donna726
01-15-2004, 12:11 AM
Zara commented about this Alla Prima technique being as difficult as/more difficult than, watercolours - perhaps Zorn's technique to some extent IS that of a watercolourist adapted to oils?

Dave


Perhaps also a Chinese ink painting approach to oil painting.

When I read Richard Schmid's Alla Prima, I thought that a lot of the principles and advices he gives is very close to the approach to good Chinese ink painting, esp. on "edges".

Actually the more I study and practice both disciplines, the more I realize the similarities.

I guess even though different mediums (even from different cultures) emphasize different elements, principles of design is more or less the same across all arts. That's why it is a good idea do "cross-training"

-Donna

Matt Sammekull
01-15-2004, 01:28 AM
That's a correct observation Donna. Zorn's as very interested in Chinese art, especially their ink pieces. And he studied it for years.

//matt

guillot
01-15-2004, 01:59 PM
Hi Rich! There you are :)

Your painting is looking wonderful! Wonderful effect on the clay!!

Tina

JamieWG
01-15-2004, 02:40 PM
Rich, your clay looks more sculpted than painted. Fantastic!

Jamie

Matt Sammekull
01-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Yes Rich, - great work! I was,as Tina, beginning to wonder where you were!

God to see you here.

//matt

artbabe21
01-16-2004, 10:48 AM
Good work Rich...looks like I will have some time this week end to get at it, the days of this month are flying!! :)

dcorc
01-16-2004, 11:40 AM
This is NOT a criticism of Zorn! (before Matt or anyone else gets offended!)

But - as for the process of trying to produce something which resembles his painting technique :-

I hate it HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT

AAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrGGGGGGhh!

Horrible dauby muddy MESS

Just needed to vent! - feel much better now!

:)

Dave

dcorc
01-16-2004, 03:37 PM
Well, here's what I'm complaining about. First attempt had shoulders like a bricklayer, this attempt's got a face like one!

Trying to paint with sloshy washes and putting down a brushstroke and just leaving it, feels to me like trying to paint wearing boxing gloves.

Definitely finished (in disgust) with this one! Roll on February!

Dave

artbabe21
01-16-2004, 03:42 PM
DAVE!? What are you talking about??????????? This IS terrific!
Nothing wrong at all...........you're almost there man! Keep going........:D :D

Zarathustra
01-16-2004, 03:44 PM
Dcorc, don't give up so easily, you've got some nice elements in there. You just need to broaden her shoulders a little.

richlll
01-16-2004, 03:59 PM
Thanks everyone for your kind comments on my late start. At least it feels like it's late....I was beginning to think I'd never start.

This is the largest oil I have ever attempted. I squeezed out about half of a 200ml tube of white and used most of it, good thing I have switched to cheaper paint as of late. I decided to try the Winton oils the past 2 months and am very happy(after reading good comments about Winton here on WC!)....It doesn't hurt as much to wrap my fist around a tube of these and squish out a big pile of paint. I used to break out into a sweat squeezing out my Old Holland. ;) :D

Rich

Zarathustra
01-16-2004, 04:07 PM
200ml of titanium white?!! That must be one fat painting. :)
I use 37ml tubes, squeeze out a tiny amount, and somehow make it last. :)

artbabe21
01-16-2004, 04:14 PM
...It doesn't hurt as much to wrap my fist around a tube of these and squish out a big pile of paint. I used to break out into a sweat squeezing out my Old Holland.

arggghhh....that WOULD HURT! much better to have another brand of white than OH.... :crying:

dcorc
01-16-2004, 04:16 PM
Cathleen, Gavin - thanks for your support (and as your punishment, I'll post further revisions of my painting in due course :evil: )

Rich - Very interesting - I think you may be the only person working on it full-size? Certainly "your" leg has brushwork which looks very like that of the original - but you are obviously painting it pretty impasto to get through that much paint!

Dave

TeAnne
01-16-2004, 05:51 PM
Well, here's what I'm complaining about. First attempt had shoulders like a bricklayer, this attempt's got a face like one!

Trying to paint with sloshy washes and putting down a brushstroke and just leaving it, feels to me like trying to paint wearing boxing gloves.

Definitely finished (in disgust) with this one! Roll on February!

Dave Nothing wrong with her. You had a go, and did very well. She wasn't as easy as she looked. :) :clap:

dcorc
01-16-2004, 05:57 PM
She wasn't as easy as she looked.

That's the story of my life! :)

Dave

TeAnne
01-16-2004, 06:05 PM
That's the story of my life! :)

Dave
You're not alone. I feel that way too a lot. Worse when i can't get help.

dcorc
01-16-2004, 06:52 PM
Further changes - I still feel I'm fighting this all the way, the temptation to scrape stuff back and do it my own usual way with blending, and layers, and glazes and whatnot is immense. I feel that I'm going some way towards that with the face and hands already, and that this is "cheating" - that is, not likely to be the way Zorn would have done it.

I admire Zorn's paintings greatly, but I now know not only that I can't paint like him (no great surprise there, of course!), but also (sorry, Matt, but it's the truth) that I actually don't want to paint like him - in the sense that the hatching, and laying down colour with little or no blending, and more or less alla prima approach is very counter-intuitive (to me).

How do other people feel about their approaches, to try to get the Zorn look? How do the techniques they are trying for this differ from their usual painting style/techniques?

Dave

TeAnne
01-16-2004, 06:59 PM
I changed mine with a bit more colour once I had finished it. I know what you mean too. I like to slap the paint around sort of in the Zorn style but I was feeling inhibidited, to get it right. The more I tried to get it right, the more I hated it and enjoyed it less (I love painting) So, unless it IS your usual style, it won't turn out. IMHO. *shrug* Some are lucky enough to be able to make a copy of any painting they wish.

Zarathustra
01-17-2004, 04:06 AM
Dave, like yourself, I am used to glazing and/or layering methods... This alla prima technique is a real challenge, especially in trying to render the head. Personally I like the looseness and the challenge, and it inspired me to read up a little more about Richard Schmid's techniques, so I can try more paintings along these lines.
Who knows, perhaps in a few months I shall start breaking all my brushes out of sheer frustration. :)

Matt Sammekull
01-17-2004, 11:39 AM
Hey!

Dave, you don't have to apologize to me for having such feelings toward Zorn and his style!

When I stand infront of a Zorn, or any other artist in that style, I loose my speech, because I know, not in a million years could I do something like that. Out of thousands of brushstroked there is not one single one that isn't placed exactly where it's supposed to be.
I can train myself to paint like Caravaggio or Dalí or pretty much anyone, cause I know how to go about it. But with Zorn.. nope... I just don't get it! How can you get so skillful? It's like they have all the answers before approaching the blank canvas, - no uncertainties.
I guess you have to start with a bunch of courage, and not being afraid to fail. But I'm far too much of a "safe" painter by heart.

I know, out of the twelve MOM's, Thayer will be the hardest for me. I don't even know how to approach such a task. But that is why I will focus extra on that month. To maybe learn something. Isn't that why MOM exist, to give ourselves a chance to learn what we don't already know?
It is for me.

I have a few more hours of work on mine before it's finished... working on those flesh tones.

Great work everyone!

//matt

guillot
01-17-2004, 11:10 PM
Hey Matt..........WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!! Looking fantastic!! I want to thank you too, for taking so much time and effort into our year-long endeavors. You are a saint, my friend ;)

It's so wonderful to see everyone's effort on this wonderful painting. I think much more appreciation when trying to figure out those wonderful Zorn strokes. What a freeing experience.

Well, I've been back at my easel. Had to wait for the underlayer to dry. I know Zorn painted this alla prima (How he did it I do not know). If I'm wrong, I'm sure Matt will correct me on this one. But, for me, I made mistakes to begin with, and I've had to go back over some to correct values and temperatures. So, from last week, this is another hours work here:

Thanks everyone,
Tina