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Verdaccio
07-27-2001, 05:04 PM
I have found something that is working just great for me and I wanted to suggest it to others in case you hadn't already thought of it or tried it.

I have been mixing a drop or two of stand oil into my paint piles. It makes the paint much more creamy and it just makes it blend like a dream! Try it - you may like it too! :)

Linda Ciallelo
07-27-2001, 09:40 PM
Verdaccio are you using any turpentine with your paints, or just the stand oil?

Verdaccio
07-27-2001, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Linda Ciallelo
Verdaccio are you using any turpentine with your paints, or just the stand oil?

Hi Linda, I have a medium that I spray and paint into:

5 parts damar varnish
5 parts rectified turp
3 parts stand oil
1 part venice turp

I have just found that mixing a drop of stand oil into my pure paint piles makes it really cover better, it seems to reflect the light better, blends better, etc.

Midwest Painter
07-27-2001, 11:22 PM
Here is a good treatise on stand oil, varnish, and media in general.


http://www.sanders-studios.com/tutorial/modernapplications/medium.html

Titanium
07-28-2001, 07:07 AM
Verdaccio ,

if you can ever try this let me know how it works.

On a test image panel .

Using just very watery thin stand oil [ solvent
thin ] , wet the passage you are about to paint.
Allow enough time for the solvent to completely
evaporate.

Then use the stand oil as you have indicated
in your first post.

I don't know how stiff your paint is , but I use a
fluid hand mulled paste.

Use no resins or solvent , keep the body of your
paint intact.
See how you handle that on a test panel.

This would be in the last layer type painting.
Titanium

* Stand Oil has the same amount of gloss as a Resin
, when the stroke is applied and not played with
too much .

Verdaccio
07-28-2001, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Titanium
Verdaccio ,

if you can ever try this let me know how it works.

On a test image panel .

Using just very watery thin stand oil [ solvent
thin ] , wet the passage you are about to paint.
Allow enough time for the solvent to completely
evaporate.

Then use the stand oil as you have indicated
in your first post.

I don't know how stiff your paint is , but I use a
fluid hand mulled paste.

Use no resins or solvent , keep the body of your
paint intact.
See how you handle that on a test panel.

This would be in the last layer type painting.
Titanium

* Stand Oil has the same amount of gloss as a Resin
, when the stroke is applied and not played with
too much .

Kim:

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that I thin some Stand Oil with Rectified Turp - say 60/40 Turp heavy? Then paint this on a panel and wait for perhaps one hour for the turp to evaporate off. Then, apply paint over it - paint with about a drop or two of Stand Oil mixed in. Is that what you mean?

I imagine that this sort of coat would be good for getting really smooth brush strokes and very fine detail?

Mario
07-28-2001, 10:04 AM
Hi Verdach...I use a 50/50 stand oil , turpenoid mixture as my painting medium. I got the recipe from an artist whose work I admire (there's a lot of them here in Philadelphia). I find it helpful to just tip my brush lightly into it when starting with a fresh clean brush. It's also useful for cleaning a brush before loading a different color...

Titanium
07-28-2001, 10:07 AM
Hello Michael [ or Verdaccio ],

One of the properties of Stand Oil is resistance to
being easily absorbed by a porous surface. So only
a very , very little is needed to wet and stay on a
surface .

Presently I am using 1 part to 11 parts solvent.
or 5mm stand oil in the bottle to 55 mm of solvent.
I place a ruler against a 15 ml bottle , and take
measurements.

On a commercially made canvas , this leaves a
thin coat of stand oil , with some gloss on the
surface.

Never leave stand oil on the surface of your painting,
as stand oil will yellow with time and ruin your [especially]
delicate , pastel colours.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You asked -

Kim:

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that I thin some Stand Oil with Rectified Turp - say 60/40 Turp heavy? Then paint this on a panel and wait for perhaps one hour for the turp to evaporate off. Then, apply paint over it - paint with about a drop or two of Stand Oil mixed in. Is that what you mean?

Response -
I have left the proportions I use above on a fairly non absorbent
surface.

If I use a home made dry canvas , I would need a little less solvent.

My solvent - Mineral Spirits - evaporates almost immediately at
our constant 86 - 90 deg.F day temperature .
So I can apply , and wait 3 to 5 minutes , before working.
Just test and see how it works for you.

Yes , to adding a small drop or two to your paint.

-----------------------------------------

Be aware that Stand Oil is very strong and in commercial exterior
use , I saw quantities as small as 5 to 10 % Stand Oil to the whole paint , being satisfactorily used.

Learn to use only a very little.

You can get either the enamel smooth look or the impasto paint texture look .

Most importantly is doing the above without solvent or added resin . Too many factors and you will confuse yourself.
Don't expect to master it either in the short term.

Paint with stand oil added in and applied very thinly will glaze effectively as well. Test.

33 % to 90 % Walnut Oil plus 67 % to 10 % stand oil is also an
effective low yellowing medium. Made thickly or thinly , as you
wish .
Make it , shake it well and leave in the sun for three days [ closed bottled ] to blend properly.

As usual , not everyone likes or can handle an oily medium.
Test and enjoy .
Titanium

Verdaccio
07-28-2001, 10:24 AM
Kim:

Thanks for the reply and as usual, your wonderful knowledge about oil chemistry! I will definately try this over the next week. Will let you know what I think and how it goes. :)

Victor
07-30-2001, 01:52 PM
Hi Verdaccio, I went into my local art store and asked for Stand oil and they didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe it has a different name in England so if anyone out there has any info please let me know...

Thanks, Vic.....:)

Verdaccio
07-30-2001, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Victor
Hi Verdaccio, I went into my local art store and asked for Stand oil and they didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe it has a different name in England so if anyone out there has any info please let me know...

Thanks, Vic.....:)

Victor: Stand Oil is Linseed Oil that is thickened - either via the sun or some commercial heat process. You should be able to find it in most art stores. Here is a link to the product from Dick Blick:

http://www.dickblick.com/zz004/20/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=308

Don't know if they ship internationally or not. Hope that helps you get some! :)

Titanium
07-30-2001, 07:52 PM
Michael , Victor ,

Stand Oil is a viscous , SLOW drying oil , usually made commercially .

Sun - Thickened Oil is a viscous , FAST drying oil [ I only know the
home -made one , never bought a commercial bottle ].

Vic , ask at Cornelissans [ spelling ?] and sons for the Stand Oil .
[ They are around the corner from the British Museum ] , I believe the right hand side if your at the main gate , with the comic book shop , also on the right .

Or you could call .Great Shop !!!.
Titanium

Victor
07-31-2001, 03:38 PM
Thanks Michael, at least I now know what I am looking for but none of my local art shops stock it and have never heard of it but I know its out there somewhere.

Thanks for the info Titanium but london is a long way to go just for Stand oil and I try to stay away from that dump as much as possible. The medium I am using at the moment is equal parts of Purified Linseed oil, Turpentine,Distilled and Damar Varnish.

If it was good enough for Helen Van Wyke it should be good enough for me...........

Vic... :)

Luis Guerreiro
07-31-2001, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Verdaccio


Victor: Stand Oil is Linseed Oil that is thickened - either via the sun or some commercial heat process. You should be able to find it in most art stores. Here is a link to the product from Dick Blick:

Don't know if they ship internationally or not. Hope that helps you get some! :)

Michael,
I'd like to suggest a small note on the subject of STAND OIL.
Stand Oil is linseed oil which has been boiled in the presence of carbonic acid. Some also suggest that the boiling process takes place in a special pan in so that there is no oxygen. The degree of boiling will produce different thickness grades of oil, which are called POISE. A poise 40 stand-oil runs like honey and there may be poise grades as high as 80 or even 90.
Because of the manufacturing process above, stand-oil is very slow to dry. The oil thickened considerably but not because it absorbed oxygen and polymerised, but because it was boiled for a long time in the way above described.

The most important oil in this discussion is actually called SUN-THICKENED OIL, and this one yes; it is prepared by leaving shallow trays full of linseed oil under the sun, with a net or a perforated sheet of glass covering them for a number of days or weeks, depending on how hot the sun is and the time of the year. In the presence of natural heat and oxygen, the oil polymerises, making it a fast-drying oil. It happens that those shallow trays are sometimes made of lead, in which case, the oil become not only fast-drying, but also highly siccative, making it one of the best oils ever produced.
Luis

Luis Guerreiro
07-31-2001, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Victor
Thanks Michael, at least I now know what I am looking for but none of my local art shops stock it and have never heard of it but I know its out there somewhere.

Thanks for the info Titanium but london is a long way to go just for Stand oil and I try to stay away from that dump as much as possible. The medium I am using at the moment is equal parts of Purified Linseed oil, Turpentine,Distilled and Damar Varnish.

If it was good enough for Helen Van Wyke it should be good enough for me...........

Vic... :)

Victor,
It sounds like the UK is as fast as a snail on a hot day (Not!).
Stand-oil is available from anywhere and you can order it from ATLANTIS ART store (020 73778855) and have oit delivered to your doorstep the very next day by Royal Mail Next Day Garantied Delivery for something like 3,50. It's that simple mate!
Take the opportunity and ask Atlantis to send you a list of the products they stock for oil painting.
:rolleyes: :D

Victor
08-01-2001, 06:22 AM
Hi Luis,

I phoned Atlantis Art and they confirmed that they have stand oil in stock and they are going to send me a catalogue.

Mind you, I am very tempted to make a special trip to visit them because they are just round the corner from Whitechapel where there is a Pie and Mash shop. Pie and mash was my favorite meal and I haven't had it for years, Yum Yum. I can hardly wait....:rolleyes:

Vic

Luis Guerreiro
08-02-2001, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Victor
Hi Luis,

I phoned Atlantis Art and they confirmed that they have stand oil in stock and they are going to send me a catalogue.

Mind you, I am very tempted to make a special trip to visit them because they are just round the corner from Whitechapel where there is a Pie and Mash shop. Pie and mash was my favorite meal and I haven't had it for years, Yum Yum. I can hardly wait....:rolleyes:

Vic
Victor,
Well done. You'll be amazed at the stuff you are about to find at Atlantis. It's a huge place, a Fine Arts Warehouse organised in 2 enormous floors. The 2nd floor doubles the 1st in total area at the very least. See for yourself, I just know you'll love it as much as I do. There are other 2 Fine Arts stores I use, which are highly specialised, chiefly in traditional oil techniques:

L. CORNELISSEN & SONS, LTD.
105, Great Russel Street
London WC1B 3RY
Phone: 020 76361045
E-MAIL: [email protected]
--------------------------------------
A. P. FITZPATRICK
KREMER PIGMENTE
142 Cambridge Heath Road
Bethnal Green
London E1 5QJ
Phone: 020 77900884
E-MAIL: [email protected]

Cornelissen is highly regarded, their stuff is actually of outstanding quality. I buy my canvases from them. They prepare them in their workshop, from the best Belgium linens and cottons and there is a maturation process of 5 steps before they release the canvas to the customer, in either acrylic primer or traditional oil primer. Special sizes or canvases made to order must be ordered with 2 weeks notice, due to the extreme care and attention to detail at Cornelissen's. Brush selection, dry pigments and tube paints, you name it. All the stock is very high quality for a price which doesn't always come cheap, but not excessively expensive, considering the quality and customer service. Worth a visit.

A. P. Fitzpatrick, well! I consider them in the highest possible degree of respect and esteem. Only for professionals or students doing their degrees in Fine Arts. I am a student myself at a reasonable stage of expertise at this point in time and I tell you, they know much much more than I do, any of the guys working there are able to discuss the most obscure techniques and materials in whatever you may think, oils, acrylics, gilding, you name it, they know it and got it in-store. They stock dry pigments nobody else has (they produce a lot of those pigments) and they certainly stock any material known of and used in oil techniques for the last 500 years, with exception of those that disappeared for natural reasons or otherwise.
Enjoy your research.