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madmum
12-06-2003, 04:34 AM
Remember the nude I listed last? It ended without a bid, but that's irrelevant.

I just had this email from ebay:

3640517582 RSHarts WATERCOLOR FEMALE NUDE ART 4WC



has been ended. Although the auction has already ended on its own, it has been removed from the site. All fees associated with this auction have been credited to your account.

The item you have listed does not appear to be consistent with eBay guidelines.

We wanted to call attention to a policy that you may have overlooked when listing your auctions. In order to maintain the safest and most equitable trading environment possible, we must have policies for items eBay considers to be "adult" in nature. Items that fall under this classification must only be listed in our Mature Audiences categories.

Items such as those you've listed are not permitted within eBay's general categories, even if they are cropped, edited or otherwise self-censored. Our Mature Audiences policies define materials to be adult in nature if they include, but are not limited to:

* Items that depict frontal nudity (with very limited exceptions)

* Images or representation of intercourse or other sexual activity involving humans or human-like creatures (such as in Anime or Hentai)

* Anything which requires the person purchasing the item to be 18 years of age or older

* Any materials where the sole purpose is to arouse or titillate the senses in a sexual manner

* Any items which are designed for sexual use (such as vibrators or bondage gear)

* Items that portray sexual characteristics


Some examples of what we do not permit within the general categories would be "Girls Gone Wild" style videos, Anime (Japanese animation) with adult subject material, most bondage related items, adult toys, and most adult magazines. Nudist magazines are also prohibited. We do make some allowances for certain collectible adult magazines.

Playboy, Playgirl, and Penthouse magazines published before, but not during, 1980 are only allowed in the categories created especially for them:

Books:Magazines & Catalogs:Magazine Back Issues:Men:Playboy (Pre-1980)
Books:Magazines & Catalogs:Magazine Back Issues:Women:Playgirl (Pre-1980)
Books:Magazines & Catalogs:Magazine Back Issues:Men:Penthouse (Pre-1980)

In addition, we cannot allow images of frontal nudity in these categories even for qualifying publications. These magazines are prohibited in any other category (such as Books: Magazines & Catalogs: Magazine Back Issues: Men) of the general section of eBay.

If you would like to list your item again, here is how to list an auction in the Mature Audience section:

1. Choose the category, "Everything Else".

2. Choose the sub category "Mature Audiences"

3. Choose the best category to list your item.

You can locate the Mature Audiences site within eBay by going to the following link:

http://pages.ebay.com/buy/index.html?ssPageName=HAC01

Under the yellow heading titled "Categories" there will be two columns. In the bottom of the right hand column will be the link to the Mature Audiences site. Once you click on this link it will ask you to sign in and to agree to some terms that will be listed on the page following the sign in page.

For information on our Mature Audience policy, please go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/mature-audiences.html

For information on infringing, prohibited or questionable items, please view:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

For more information on why eBay has ended an auction, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-endauction.html

Future auctions listed that fail to meet our listing guidelines will be ended early and repeated violations may jeopardize your account status. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue our relationship, so we respectfully ask you to refrain from any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc


Kind of lucky for me, since it didn't sell (and was an FP!) But I don't understand considering the stuff that is allowed to stay on Ebay!! :eek:

Wonder how they found it after the auction had ended?

Ruth

TeAnne
12-06-2003, 04:40 AM
That's outragous!!!!!!!! What about the frontals of the men ones for guys???????????? OMG! Some of the drawings were bordering on pornographic.

Which nude was it Mum?

madmum
12-06-2003, 04:42 AM
This one.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2003/10535-Standing_nude.jpg

If it hadn't already ended without a bid, I would be absolutely fuming!

Still, I agree, it's outrageous when you look at the porn masquerading as art that they leave. :mad:

Ruth

TeAnne
12-06-2003, 04:58 AM
ah yes, I remember her now :) She is very voluptuous and luscious hey :D

ElizaLeahy
12-06-2003, 05:17 AM
As the photographer of the reference, I'm insulted. I do not deal in PORN, and my pictures, including my reference photos, are art, not porn.

Shen, I WAS a model and at no time did I ever feel as degraded as that email makes me feel!

TeAnne
12-06-2003, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by ElizaLeahy
As the photographer of the reference, I'm insulted. I do not deal in PORN, and my pictures, including my reference photos, are art, not porn.

Shen, I WAS a model and at no time did I ever feel as degraded as that email makes me feel!


(((((((Eliza)))))))))) I think I know how you are feeling.

madmum
12-06-2003, 05:31 AM
((((((((Eliza))))))))) I would NEVER have painted it if I had thought it was degrading to women. None of your photos were. I'm sorry :(

madmum
12-06-2003, 05:36 AM
If mine wasn't allowed, what about

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642017000&category=20158 (gay interest)

or this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3641729975&category=20132&sspagename=rvi:1:1 (another male nude)

????? :mad:

timelady
12-06-2003, 06:01 AM
Bummer. :(
A few things to remember though:
1. eBay doesn't choose directly, someone had to report your auction to them. You unfortunately had some prude see your auction.
2. eBay UK does not have an adult category - only the eBay US site does as far as I know. This is some legal thing with over-18 access in countries other than the US. Really sucks and we can't even *view* the mature audiences category on eBay.com (I've tried)
3. Though it may have been reported for nudity of some sort, the email you got is no doubt a generic one to cover all cases.

I've auctioned many many nudes, although to be honest I can't think of any that were completely frontal poses. Oh, actually, I did have a couple male frontal nudes. Never got pulled, but were probably listed on ebay.com rather than .co.uk.

Tina.

TeAnne
12-06-2003, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by madmum
If mine wasn't allowed, what about

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642017000&category=20158 (gay interest)

or this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3641729975&category=20132&sspagename=rvi:1:1 (another male nude)

????? :mad:
Very similar to the ones I saw yesterday.

ElizaLeahy
12-06-2003, 06:16 AM
I have no problems with any of the nudes. Nudity does not equal porn.

I am a moderator on Elfwood, and also in charge of support. For a time I *WAS* support. One of the major complaints we would get was "this picture is porn" and when I would go look, of course most times it wasn't. I then would have to answer and explain the difference between nudity in art and pornography. I ended up having a stock email!

All of the people who complained were from America and as far as I could tell, young women.

M.A.
12-06-2003, 06:59 AM
Ruth, I think its really cool that you got your fees back but it totally *stinks* that they eyeballed you for that policy! Unbelievable, really.

matmad
12-06-2003, 07:40 AM
Bummer for you Ruth. I can't imagine why anyone might object to your nude. More to the point, as it were, there are quite often plenty of erections to be found (on ebay).

Mmmmm.........interesting though. I list on co.uk, and many of my nudes are erotic frontals (not expicit though). They do show up on the US site, so I wonder if I'll get an email soon. I hope not, as they're all pretty good sellers.


Julie

Lady Rando
12-06-2003, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by ElizaLeahy
All of the people who complained were from America and as far as I could tell, young women.

Well, I'm an American woman and what insults me is that anyone would think this is porn. :rolleyes:

I think we should all flood ebay with frontal nudes !!! :D

sandge
12-06-2003, 08:02 AM
That's really tough, Ruth.

Here is the ebay guidance on listing nudity. I found it on the .com site - couldn't find similar guidance on the .co.uk site so I guess they may have different rules.
Can material containing nudity ever be listed outside the Mature Audiences area?
Nudity is generally not permitted on the main site, with the following exceptions:

...[snip]...

Artwork: With regard to artwork, nudity is permitted to the extent it is part of a piece of art that may be considered fine art-such as certain paintings, carvings, figurines and other similar materials. Examples include, but are not limited to, Michelangelo's David, certain (but not all) vintage pin-up art, a Renaissance-style painting of a nude female, and paintings like Raphael's, or nude cherubs in the form of human infants.

...[snip]...

Items that are posted in violation of the above guidelines may be moved to the Mature Audiences area or ended. Sellers who repeatedly post inappropriate sexual items in this category may be suspended.
What that says to me is that a level of interpretation comes into play - could you successfully argue that your work is a piece of fine art comparable to a Michaelangelo? At the end of the day, I think it's a question of whether you're reported or not. For those posting nudes as their main subject it's a HUGE risk because all it needs is for someone to take against you and you've had it! :(

sandge
12-06-2003, 08:08 AM
The other thing to bear in mind is that as paypal is part of ebay, they have the same kind of policies.

So, you are also risking your paypal account.

See: Paypal: Mature Audiences Policy (http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=mature)

wayfarer
12-06-2003, 09:52 AM
I don't paint nudes, but the other examples you list, Madmum, especially this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&category=20158 (gay interest)
seem to me to be border-line porn. Even Playgirl would not show men in any state of arousal. I'm offended too by eBay's reactionary response.

Chris

Antoine
12-06-2003, 10:20 AM
As 85% of my work is nudes, I’m glad to know about this. I feel it is extremely unfair. I have regularly seen the most tasteless nudes on ebay and they write such an email about an perfect artistic nude?



Shouldn’t there be restrictions on the titles ?

(these are perfect artistic paintings … but the horrendous titles?!?!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642008096&category=20132
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642554557&category=20132

prtpix
12-06-2003, 11:02 AM
"someone had to report your auction to them"

I don't understand it.
If these people find this stuff offensive. Why would they go around viewing auctions with the word nude in them. It is clear they are just looking for trouble.
Can't E-Bay understand this?

kjsspot
12-06-2003, 12:48 PM
I do figurative work as well, but I do know one answer to this questions Marianne. If someone is offended by nudity, they are going to be bothered that they cannot simply browse the art category without having to wade through all the thumbnails of nudity. So, they decide to take action.

kjsspot
12-06-2003, 01:08 PM
Oh, and I do agree that erotic art should be in a separate category. Defining the difference is the hard part and on ebay, most often it simply comes down to being reported or not. Usually, you can argue your point with eBay and win, but by then the auction has already been canceled. And in this case, I doubt she wants to argue it anyway as she got her FP fees back. LoL

Ruth, personally, if you have more nudes I would go ahead and list them. I doubt it'll happen again. I did not find this to be erotic art. But you will find less conflict if you do not display the pubic area. Very often including it is one of the lines that people use to decide if it's tasteful or not. For example, people view a painting of eve, nekid but with her hand in front of her pubes as tasteful. LoL Make sure you describe it as artistic nude and not erotic. And if you are really feeling skittish, simply block the "private" areas in your thumbnail. Would probably get you more hits anyway as curiosity sells. LoL

And while we are on the subject, I was personally offended by the posting of CoolArtist. I found the listing of a full frontal ERECT male extremely distasteful. It should not have been listed in the art category, but in the mature category. And topping off my distaste for this is knowing that this was done without any artistic merit at all and simply for the fast buck. I feel it degrades the fine art category and erodes our market. If you (not speaking to you, Ruth) want to do porn keep it in the proper category. And please, if you post a link to porn, please note that it is so. I have children around and was not pleased when I clicked CoolArtist's link. I have no problem with my kids seeing artistic nudes but in no way should they be exposed to pornography. I found it very inconsiderate of you not to warn us.

And yes, I am wearing my flame retardant suit. :evil:

Salairawns
12-06-2003, 01:08 PM
I'm sorry to hear this Ruth.
Was you nude an FP? I wonder if its prominence on the front pages bothered someone as most nudes are buried in the listings.
If you should relist, maybe put 'Fine Art" in the title, it'd slip by? ;)
I agree about the other listings too. I've seen some very explicit paintings in Self Rep. Someone got prudish over yours.
Celena

Antoine
12-06-2003, 01:30 PM
Kjsspot, I totally agree with you regarding the fact that “erect….” does not belong between fine art. (that was an image I did not appreciate either) I have noticed a lot less explicit, erotic art in the listings today, could it be that ebay is trying to do something? Even if it’s so, I think Ruth’s nude is beautiful and tasteful.

tmcclary
12-06-2003, 01:46 PM
Paypal pulled my site from their PayPal shops list because of this policy. They assured me my account was safe, but I could not be listed in the shops category unless I removed the nude from my website.

This is the ONLY nude on my site...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2003/10389-spiralgoddess1.jpg

This happened a week or so ago. I have a feeling that these are being reported by some prude man that was titilized (excuse the pun) by images of voluptuos women (or by his wife who found him looking at them).

The nude stays. I do not appreciate their attempt at censorship.

Lady Rando
12-06-2003, 01:48 PM
Kerry Jo .... :clap: I agree. I to found that particular work offensive and was not happy that it had no warning.

Ruth, your work is beautiful, in no way pornographic and I hope you continue to paint them.

Lady Rando
12-06-2003, 01:56 PM
Vega Starchild .... the ebay links on your website in your available category are all screwy. When I clicked on it to see your auction it took me to my ebay page. My ebay page, not your ebay page. :confused:

I like your nude also and think ebay is way out of line on this whole issue. Anyone think a protest letter to ebay with all of our signatures on would do any good?

madmum
12-06-2003, 01:58 PM
This has been a fascinating discussion, and an eye opener - thanks, Tina, Sandra!

I appreciate the support, it was more a warning to you all that there are obviously some prudish people out there looking through the art categories, and they seem to know nothing about art.

I find very little offensive, unless the genitals are clearly visible or, in the case of male nudes, erect. Also I agree that the titles Antoine pointed out are disgusting and have no place in the art category. Plus if you advertise with terms that appeal to perverts, you will attract all the wrong kinds of buyers!

KJo, the nude had received over 500 hits with no bids, so I'll call it a day and not list her again. I'd rather not risk being kicked off ebay for "repeated violation"! Unless I crop her so she is only the top half (or put a pair of panties on her? LOL) And I don't intend to argue, as you said I got a refund so I'm happy, just annoyed that people are so short sighted :(

I think I'll start describing my florals as erotic and see what happens :evil:

Ruth

PS I reported a "gay interest" auction myself, so let's see what happens!

Lady Rando
12-06-2003, 02:29 PM
LOL.....Ruth. Let us know about the flowers.

kiwicockatoo
12-06-2003, 02:30 PM
Didn't this happen to shai a while back? Seems to me someone is offended by more voluptuous nudes, which personally I think are nice to see.

Doesn't putting the description "gay interest" automatically give the auction an erotic meaning? and make it non-complient with ebay's policies? There are tonnes of sexual content on ebay, why are you guys getting picked on?

I have no problem with erotic art, but if ebay will pull Ruth's auction they should pull ALL nudes or quit being so hypocritical.

Sorry Ruth!! Almost all my best sellers when I started out were nudes!

pampe
12-06-2003, 05:37 PM
*just shaking my head*


what next.....

sorry, ((Ruth))

meriadoc
12-06-2003, 06:50 PM
really the only definition between pornography and art :

"I'll know it when I see it"

i've done the whole art/porn thing before - and trying do define what is what.. it is difficult.

arlene
12-06-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by madmum
If mine wasn't allowed, what about

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642017000&category=20158 (gay interest)

or this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3641729975&category=20132&sspagename=rvi:1:1 (another male nude)

????? :mad:

i'd write them and ask about those other nudes...and send them the link to yours too.

arlene
12-06-2003, 07:38 PM
it's funny how prudish and afraid of our own bodies we are. sad...

arteitaliana
12-06-2003, 09:03 PM
I found the listing of a full frontal ERECT male extremely distasteful. It should not have been listed in the art category, but in the mature category. And topping off my distaste for this is knowing that this was done without any artistic merit at all and simply for the fast buck.

I have to agree with KerryJo. I did not comment at the time bnecause I knew that I would not have been able to Be too nice about it...
While at University I painted mostly male nudes, so it's not nudity that offends me. What offends me is the exploitation of nudity combined with lack of artistic sensitivity.
A nude can be erotic, sensual, exciting without having the interest centerd on the reproductive organs.
A good painter does not need to show an erected penis to attract interest to his work.

ElizaLeahy
12-06-2003, 09:04 PM
I hope that you did not feel the same way about my "members only" painting

arteitaliana
12-06-2003, 09:44 PM
No....that was abstract, colorful and fun, and considering the subject it was done very well in a playful way.
Color and the composition were the main subjects of the painting, not the falluses.

SunshineyChelle
12-06-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by arlene
it's funny how prudish and afraid of our own bodies we are. sad...

.... I'm sure afraid of my body right now!!!!!! :D


Michelle

arlene
12-06-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by SunshineyChelle


.... I'm sure afraid of my body right now!!!!!! :D


Michelle

well i'm not running to a nudist colony anytime soon (don't want folks to get ill) but by the same token, i'm not ashamed of my body...heck it's got alot of good features...

surreal
12-07-2003, 12:01 AM
Ah - there is a great deal of prudishness out there!!!

I can only imagine how much you will all disagree with me here and I just want to express my opinion, and not get into a debate about it, but:

IMHO, most of the "art" I see on ebay is created to make a fast buck and a great deal of it lacks artistic merit.

I couldn't care less that Cool created a male nude with an erection. I am not offended by it one bit!!!


:)

kjsspot
12-07-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by surreal
I couldn't care less that Cool created a male nude with an erection. I am not offended by it one bit!!!:)

I was. But the point isn't our individual views. The point is that this would offend a vast majority of our society. Therefore she should have had the consideration of posting a warning with the link AND it should have been placed in the proper category.

Fine art category is not the place for erotic art. There is a vast difference between dipicting the beauty of the human form in an artistic manner and dipicting a guy pleasuring himself with a disproportionately large erection. The ENTIRE purpose of the piece was an image for sexual arousal. That is porn and there is no getting around it and it was extremely rude to post it without warning.

kjsspot
12-07-2003, 12:32 AM
Nina, please realize that I am not directing this toward you. Your level of comfort with porn is your business not mine. But, someone else stated that it's hard to differenciate between porn and art. Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes it's much closer to the line and it can get muddled. But other images are so far into porn that there is no way to classify it as anything else.

To clarify let's define our terms. Webster defines pornography as " the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement" As I explained in my last post, this image in question falls under this definition.

Shai
12-07-2003, 06:43 PM
This happened to me too a few months ago. My work was in Chinese brush painting style and I believe it even had a bad. I was furious and I tried to fight it. But, it was futile. They gave me several different answers when I tried to reason out. It's true that there are just random reporters of such things. Unfortunately. :mad:

ElizaLeahy
12-07-2003, 06:46 PM
Has to be very random, or this would have been pulled

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642062652&category=20158&rd=1

They can refund my fees if they want to though :)

arlene
12-07-2003, 06:58 PM
I happen to agree with you kerri jo...that was clearly erotic art crossing over into porn.

My comments were based on Ruth's nude. big difference

Nina yes it's true most is done for ebay...myself included. But that doesn't mean I don't try my best within the confines of the time allotment, etc.

arteitaliana
12-07-2003, 07:16 PM
Has to be very random, or this would have been pulled

I don't see why, Eliza.
This to me is not erotic nor pornographic.

champagneharley
12-07-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Vega Starchild
Paypal pulled my site from their PayPal shops list because of this policy. They assured me my account was safe, but I could not be listed in the shops category unless I removed the nude from my website.

This is the ONLY nude on my site...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2003/10389-spiralgoddess1.jpg

This happened a week or so ago. I have a feeling that these are being reported by some prude man that was titilized (excuse the pun) by images of voluptuos women (or by his wife who found him looking at them).

The nude stays. I do not appreciate their attempt at censorship.
My site got pulled off of PayPal shops, I was wondering if it was because of the few nudes on my site, also. Don't know. But I decided not to try to re-instate.
I guess in some way it's funny.
They are concerned about children looking. Kids can walk through any old park and find beautiful nudes in statues and fountains. I adored these as a child.
At 8 years old I was given a set of encyclopedias. The only thing I ever looked at were the art section and mythology with it's wonderful stories. The art section was full of statues and the works of masters. Nudes were abundant. Being 8 there was no sexual inference for me at all. It is just something I thought to be beautiful, and what I thought part of being an artist was (to be able to approach the perfection of drawing or sculpting the human form).
At 22 I went to my first life group. The work I bought home was thrown out by my Mother, and I suffered such abuse I never went back. The model was female.
I now go sometimes to life groups, and love it. I often zoom in on face or hands, or feet, actually preferring not to do the naked body. Some models are too skinny for me to find any lovely art in them. I find nothing sexual in this at all. It is totally apart from my 'intimate' moments, and never associated in my mind. I jokingly keep saying I go to the groups hoping for a male model. But that is mainly in jest. I have sketched with male models, and it's just a matter of 'business' - determining how to execute my artwork.
Regards,
Jillian

champagneharley
12-07-2003, 07:59 PM
Oh, you'll NEVER guess what!!!!!!!
I decided to look at some of the art of one of the artists listed here. I found that there was 'mature' items, so I decided to go look to see this new category that I wasn't familiar with. ESPECIALLY since I'm over 21!!!!

However.......

I live in the USA.
I am listed as an Australian.

... therefore I CANNOT view this section - ebay doesn't allow non-US to view.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Talk about frustrating!

It was like with PayPal. I couldnt' buy from a US person as they said no non-US sales. I tried paying with PayPal, but couldn't, even tho I AM in the USA. I tried changing my PayPal address to my USA address, but PP wouldn't let me. I have to CANCEL my old account (which still has my Credit Card associated with it) and had to open a NEW PayPal account - but this is without my CreditCard, as I can't enter an Australian Address associated with it.
Does this have you all confused now????
GRRRRRRRRRR!
Regards,
Jillian

champagneharley
12-07-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by madmum
...I think I'll start describing my florals as erotic and see what happens :evil:

Ruth

PS I reported a "gay interest" auction myself, so let's see what happens!

HAHAHAH! Especially if they have erect stamens!
Or with a bee - fertilizing the flowers...

Oh my!

... I wonder if the 'gay interest' was the one I went to look at and it no longer exists?
:D
Regards,
Jillian

ElizaLeahy
12-07-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Rita Monaco


I don't see why, Eliza.
This to me is not erotic nor pornographic.

You mean you aren't turned on by my art? Awww.....
:)

But what I meant was - neither was Ruths and they cancelled hers.

arteitaliana
12-07-2003, 09:25 PM
Somebody must have reported Ruth's listing, that's the only explanation.

R

surreal
12-07-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Rita Monaco
Somebody must have reported Ruth's listing, that's the only explanation.

R

Ditto!

TeAnne
12-07-2003, 09:30 PM
Ebay don't monitor the auctions, they rely on members to do the policing/reporting. This sux because there are some really vicious people out there. I had a Hello Kitty phone cover pulled, yet all my competition ran full course. I reported them but nothing was done!............. I love ebay! NOT

champagneharley
12-07-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by TeAnne
...I had a Hello Kitty phone cover pulled, ...
Why was it pulled?
Anyone knows that kitties don't wear clothes.
Oh, maybe it was a pussy???????

Antoine
12-07-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by champagneharley

Oh, maybe it was a pussy???????

lol :D

TeAnne
12-07-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by champagneharley

Why was it pulled?
Anyone knows that kitties don't wear clothes.
Oh, maybe it was a pussy???????

lololol You nut :cool: :clap: It was a VERO issue

tmcclary
12-08-2003, 01:09 AM
Tamara-Thanks for the heads up on my screwy links. Looks like frontpage cut off the end of the link the last time I updated. I need to go in and update again this week anyway. If I can find ten minutes to do it between finishing holiday commissions and getting ready for visiting family.


I agree with Nina. I don't find the male pictures, even the erect ones, the least bit offensive. I don't find sexual images pornographic unless they are blatantly exploitive. Sex is beautiful. If one of my kids had accidently seen Cool's picture it would not have bothered me. If they had any questions I would have explained. Now, if it had been an image of graphic violence, I would have had a problem with it. Still I would accept its artistic value and explain it rather than hide it.

What I do find offensive is the use if the word "art" for the items that are mass produced decoration...but that is another topic...

champagneharley
12-08-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by TeAnne


lololol You nut :cool: :clap: It was a VERO issue
:)
and vero is...... ?

TeAnne
12-08-2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by champagneharley

:)
and vero is...... ? Verified Rights Owner (VeRO)

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/confidence/programs-vero.html

champagneharley
12-08-2003, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by TeAnne
Verified Rights Owner (VeRO)

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/confidence/programs-vero.html
Oh, legal-ese ... I don't understand a word of it.
Does it mean that thrift shops, 2nd hand shops, antique shops and I (on ebay) can't identify the brand of what I'm selling?
That seems ludicris.
How can you sell a Monet if you don't call it a Monet? etc.
I see further down it says that you can't use text from another seller.
Does that mean I'm going to get reported for saying things like "You are bidding on an original ....", "Artist retains all copyrights", etc. If another has used these words first? (I am not copying, but what if I accidently use the same?)
What seems to be the really horrid bit of all this is the possibly witch hunt and vindictiveness of other ebayers willing to report sellers that may have really done anything that others haven't been doing, except earn some envy or jealousy, and so get reported. The works that sell well bring people to ebay where they MIGHT purchase other works. If a buyer experiences an item getting dumped by ebay through a complaint lodgement, they may never come back to ebay again.
One well known artist got items pulled allegedly through keyword spamming (she said what other mediums and subjects she painted in. Another for listing how much items sold for previously on ebay. Another because she had her website written on her image.
I had some 6 items pulled 12 months or so ago as I was asking for foreign currency fees. This is LEGITIMATE - EXCEPT if you are selling on an overseas site and even though you are sending from another country with extra postage, you can't ask for these fees. If I'd listed on my country's ebay, there would have been no problem. I never recovered my sellers and bidders from this. It is a harrowing experience, and can well imaging some perfectly good buyers and sellers leaving ebay forever!

Regards,
Jillian

meriadoc
12-08-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by champagneharley
Oh, you'll NEVER guess what!!!!!!!
I decided to look at some of the art of one of the artists listed here. I found that there was 'mature' items, so I decided to go look to see this new category that I wasn't familiar with. ESPECIALLY since I'm over 21!!!!

However.......

I live in the USA.
I am listed as an Australian.

... therefore I CANNOT view this section - ebay doesn't allow non-US to view.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Talk about frustrating!

It was like with PayPal. I couldnt' buy from a US person as they said no non-US sales. I tried paying with PayPal, but couldn't, even tho I AM in the USA. I tried changing my PayPal address to my USA address, but PP wouldn't let me. I have to CANCEL my old account (which still has my Credit Card associated with it) and had to open a NEW PayPal account - but this is without my CreditCard, as I can't enter an Australian Address associated with it.
Does this have you all confused now????
GRRRRRRRRRR!
Regards,
Jillian

welcome to my world!!!

i'm in the same boat - i still have a credit card with the commonwealth bank - with an address in australia where a relative lives - and there are some sites that won't allow me to use that and ship to my US address ;)

so I use one of the many other US credit cards hubby and i have ;) but its difficult ;)

champagneharley
12-08-2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by meriadoc


welcome to my world!!!

i'm in the same boat - i still have a credit card with the commonwealth bank - with an address in australia where a relative lives - and there are some sites that won't allow me to use that and ship to my US address ;)

so I use one of the many other US credit cards hubby and i have ;) but its difficult ;)
Oh God, it's a nightmare, isn't it!
I am using my South Australian based Credit card, the mail goes to a friend. There are sites that want a credit card, but won't accept it at all if I give my OS address for the card, which they need for verification.
I haven't a hubby that I can ask for help!

GRRRRRR!
At least I'm not alone in this!

Regards,
Jillian

TeAnne
12-08-2003, 10:16 AM
One well known artist got items pulled allegedly through keyword spamming (she said what other mediums and subjects she painted in. Another for listing how much items sold for previously on ebay. Another because she had her website written on her image.

Keywords are only allowed that relate to the oil painting that is currantly on auction. Mediums that you also work in are supposed to be mentioned in the ME page along with any URLs of websites.
Also, most of us are guilty of self promotion in our auctions. All the info about how we work etc should be on the ME page. After all, we are supposed to be selling our work, not ourselves. We sell ourselves on the ME page :D lolol

Websites may only be in an auction if they pertain to the item you're selling and will help you sell. eg Nokia phone. You are allowed to show the Nokia website with the particular phone.

Other peoples words as in blatantly copy/paste word for word of someones auction without permission and using other peoples pics without permission.

Yes, there are many witch hunters out there. Some do it to protect the innocent buyer/seller but some are in competition and the green eyed monster takes over. It's a dog eat dog, the old ebay. Trolls rule the bandwidth.

In my case with the Hello Kitty... It was the actual copyright owner
starts with S. I can't remember who they are.

Shabby-Chic is another very touchy one. Swiss army knives. Anyway, here are the VERO members.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html

Found it. Hellokitty.com is an on-line hub pointing to related Sanrio sites
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www.hellokitty.com/