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View Full Version : Shall we tolerate that WC forums are used for promotion of individual EBAY-sellers ?


Diyart
12-05-2003, 05:07 AM
Hello,

as new member I rather quickly got the impression that some forums especially in the art business section seem to be used rather for promotion of individual EBAY-sellers than for substantial input.

After putting up the question to forbid EBAY links in posts to WC I was more or less requested to make my getaway.

I am sure that banning selfpromoting links in postings will a positive effect on the quality of WC site.

Let me know you opinions !

best regards
Martin

matmad
12-05-2003, 05:29 AM
Hi Martin,

This particular forum really is all about selling on ebay, and therefore it makes sense to illustrate a point, or celebrate a success that any individual may want to share, by putting in an ebay link to that piece of work. Therefore, I think ebay links are relevant.

Above all, these forums are about community, and as in any community in the real world, people like to share their experiences and show their input. I don't believe that any of the regulars here are ruthlessly self-promoting themselves. What would be the point? Our customers are not here on this forum, they are out there, on ebay.

I'm not in the habit of chatting here much, but I do read all the posts, and have done for a few months. There is a wealth of information and advice here, but above all, support and encouragement for each other, and that is what community is all about.

Perhaps here, as in the real world, a successful relationship with existing community members (if that is what you want) would be more likely to happen if you take a little time to look and listen to what is being said first. Then, if you don't feel you want to be involved, don't. If you join in regardless, you will only succeed in putting people's back's up.

Anyway, as I said, I don't chat much. No need to get the hump over this reply, just my personal opinion.

Julie

TeAnne
12-05-2003, 05:39 AM
Gee, what's a little bit of self promotion between our friends or as for WC, family. We share all our ups and downs here. People CARE here. I love to applaud another members success or cry with them when they are down. WCs members have a heart.

WC RULES!

Diyart
12-05-2003, 05:53 AM
Hello,

thank you for your postings.
If the customers are not in this forum
so why add the URL ?

May be I am wrong,but I thought WC is
for everybody not mainly for EBAY-sellers.

Arent`t there enough forums on EBAY ?

Martin

TeAnne
12-05-2003, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Diyart
Hello,

thank you for your postings.
If the customers are not in this forum
so why add the URL ?

May be I am wrong,but I thought WC is
for everybody not mainly for EBAY-sellers.

Arent`t there enough forums on EBAY ?

Martin

Sorry, you've lost me!

ElizaLeahy
12-05-2003, 06:08 AM
WetCanvas is about art in all forms. But this particular forum is for "internet Sales Strategies". We discuss what people want to discuss - anyone can start a thread. People ask about their web pages, and we go look at them and give advice on layout or how to get the web pages hits etc.

But a lot of talk on this forum is about ebay because ebay has no major competition as an online sales tool. One of the things we complain about is that it has no major competition! But, while there is nothing we can do about that, there is much we can do to help each other do the best that is possible using that tool.

Our customers aren't here, but our friends and helpers are. We go and look at each others auctions, if a picture is missing, or if a word is spelt incorrectly (that's my major problem!) we help by pointing that out.

We like to see each other do well. The people in this group SUPPORT each other - they don't drag each other down. We are honestly happy to help another artist succeed. I'm not sure just why that distresses you so much.

And yes, we whine and bitch when things aren't going so well - and then we help each other feel better as well by telling our own tales of woe.

It's a friendly, really helpful community.

When you enter a community like that with an open hand and friendly heart you are welcome. But think a moment, what would it be like if you enter a community like that and immeditately start telling them that they are wrong, and that you know better, and that they shouldn't be helping each other the way that they do?

M.A.
12-05-2003, 06:32 AM
If it is a problem for you, I believe it is possible for you to shut off the signature lines, that will make the links you may be referring to go away.

Other than that, I think it is great that people have these links. It makes it all real.

And, as others have pointed out, people do care about each other, those links help in that experience.

Best regards.

prtpix
12-05-2003, 07:12 AM
I never really thought of any of the Wet Canvas forums as promotional forums. We are here to share what we know with each other.
We seek opinions, support and friendship from fellow artists around the world.


I would think that other forums on the internet such as forums for interior decorating would be more ideal places to try to promote ourselves.

The only reason I put my E-Bay link in my signature is because I know other artists get curious about what we all are doing.
I appreciate looking at theirs, So, I know they most likely appreciate being able to look at mine.

Which reminds me We would love to have a link to your E-Bay or your Web Site so that we could be nosey and see what you do.
Really, I'm sure I'm not the only one that gets nosey.

timelady
12-05-2003, 07:20 AM
Hello!
We don't allow self-promotion on Wetcanvas for the most part. Users are, however, allowed to have a link in their signatures to their website, auctions, whatever. It's meant to be short so it's not obtrusive. We certainly do take action if a post is made that just spam and promotional.

Obviously in the Internet Sales forum (this forum) you will see links more often as members often ask for advice on how to improve their listings - either the image quality, layout, html or pricing. That's what this forum is for. Yes, probably 90% of this forum ends up being about eBay but that just reflects the real world of selling on the internet. You will see other sites discussed once in a while but usually they just don't have the following of eBay so the discussion drops off. Whereas many many members make at least part of their living on eBay.

Oh, and for what it's worth I've bought artwork from two other Wetcanvas artists and have a few whose auctions I often check up on. It isn't the main place for buyers but it does happen. Also, since all Wetcanvas posts are in the search engines buyers could happen along an artist that way and follow the link to Wetcanvas and then find that person's artwork through their signature.

Tina.

Diyart
12-05-2003, 07:28 AM
Hello everybody again,

it seems that I am lost with my position and got t all wrong.
But I have not come to WC to end up in same endless EBAY how to do.

Why not putting up an EBAY forum. Then everybody could see directly what it`s all about.

I understand that the URL`s are allowed,but I consider it a kind of spam!

Martin

TeAnne
12-05-2003, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Diyart
Hello everybody again,

it seems that I am lost with my position and got t all wrong.
But I have not come to WC to end up in same endless EBAY how to do.

Why not putting up an EBAY forum. Then everybody could see directly what it`s all about.

I understand that the URL`s are allowed,but I consider it a kind of spam!

Martin

Martin, we are not spamming. If we were spamming, we would be going to every forum quoting our URLs.
Our signatures can be turned off by going to MY WC and ticking "NO FRILLS"

sandge
12-05-2003, 07:54 AM
Hi Diyart
Thanks for sharing your point of view. This forum is for the discussion of artists selling online. Ebay happens to be one of the most popular and effective means of doing this. It is not surprising, therefore, that Ebay subjects tend to outweigh others.

I can't see this changing until something else comes along that is as popular and effective as ebay. I wish there were something else since it is very much like having all your eggs in one basket! It makes us very vulnerable should ebay hike up their fees or decide to exclude certain artists or types of artwork.

If the ebay threads were stripped out into a new forum, all the traffic would simply go there! It wouldn't actually make that much difference. Plus, WC is not in the business of promoting a single auction site.

Rather than telling people who are happily contributing, and successfully selling online, what not to do, how about contributing an alternative? Please do suggest other strategies for selling online. I am sure we will all be delighted to discuss other ideas - get ourselves other baskets to put our eggs in, as it were. I look forward to reading your contributions.

:)

sandge

kiwicockatoo
12-05-2003, 08:34 AM
This is the internet sales strategy forum. You are welcome to start a thread here on anything to do with selling online. I think our goal here is to help each other sell as much online as we can. At the moment, ebay seems to be the most successful route for most of us. A lot of us have been around wc a long time; we know each other well and feel like part of a community. Which is why I post here instead of ebay's own board.

If you don't like discussing ebay, you don't have to read or respond to these threads.

I like the links to member's ebay auctions. I actually regard some of the people here as friends and I like watching their successes and even buying some of their work.

If you have any useful suggestions about how to sell online other than ebay, PLEASE POST A THREAD! We would love to hear about other alternatives to ebay that work. Otherwise, allow us to enjoy our discussions in peace.

Diyart
12-05-2003, 08:34 AM
Hello

1. TeAnne : Thanks a lot..for no frills.
I appreciate that.
It seems I took quite a difficult road to get there ......

2. sandge
If the ebay threads were stripped out into a new forum, all the traffic would simply go there! It wouldn't actually make that much difference. Plus, WC is not in the business of promoting a single auction site.

The separated forum would offer the advantage that WC members would have
chance to see NON-EBAY topics already from the beginning and if no alternatives are discussed then visitors know that immediately.


Even though WC is not in the business to promote EBAY the business forums on WC do this all the time...(forgive me this shall be the last time I use the word EBAY on this thread ..)

3. Alternatives
Why is WC not offering the possibility of a market place ?

I am sure that alteratives will come up sooner or later.
Probably juried market places (paintingsdirect.com)or internet art sellers will gain market share.

Co-operatives of limited numbers of artists might start more ventures like
emoma.org as the biggest problems with EBAY is the big number of listings which forces the single artist into heavy listing activity.

Trading/exchange of collectors addresses within these co-operatives possibly will offer new chances for the single artist.


I decided to close down my EBAY-account after 4 years because I don`t want to follow that path. I have sent a mail to my collectors and they seem not to care with the exception of one supporting mail. So I am out there and I will find alternatives.

best regards
Martin

Fagan
12-05-2003, 08:42 AM
I am curious what exactly YOU would like to have on this forum? What do you want to talk about? This is Internet Sales Strategies. So...what do you want to read about here?

TeAnne
12-05-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Diyart
Hello

1. TeAnne : Thanks a lot..for no frills.
I appreciate that.
It seems I took quite a difficult road to get there ......

best regards
Martin

You're welcome Martin.

If you would like a general chat on everyday topics, you're welcome to post in the Cafe (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26)
or even the Debates (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25) Forums.

JoyJoyJoy
12-05-2003, 08:50 AM
Martin...

Ebay is mentioned so often in some business/internet discussion forums because that is what we, who sell in auction, are interested in discussing. However, many other marketing venues are discussed also. Ebay just happens to be the largest on-line auction service right now.

The Ebay links within signatures are very valuable to us as we read other's messages in these forums. By clicking on the link, we can get an idea of what kind of works, prices, etc. that artist is putting on Ebay or their website. Such information not only helps us all to get to know each other, but also helps us to understand better the question or comment made by that individual... and, maybe, we might have a helpful comment that better addresses that artist's concerns by knowing just that much more.

Co-operation and community, not competition.

Nance

kjsspot
12-05-2003, 09:47 AM
I find it personally find it very distasteful that have a link to your art but think that we are not allowed to have a link to ours. I checked your website and regardless of what you think, you are not a better artist.

Diyart
12-05-2003, 10:31 AM
Hello,

I referred to the link in posts not to links in the profile.

However meantime I think that I have made complete fool out of myself starting this subject. Obviously I had completely wrong expectations about this forum and this is my fault.

Therefore I want to apologize to this community and I regret that I have caused so much anger. Certainly I will not argue in this way again.

best regards
Martin

matmad
12-05-2003, 10:42 AM
Martin,

Apology accepted (by me). Welcome to WC!

Julie

TeAnne
12-05-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Diyart
Hello,

I referred to the link in posts not to links in the profile.

However meantime I think that I have made complete fool out of myself starting this subject. Obviously I had completely wrong expectations about this forum and this is my fault.

Therefore I want to apologize to this community and I regret that I have caused so much anger. Certainly I will not argue in this way again.

best regards
Martin

Thanks for the apology Martin, hope we see you in the cafe soon :)

Elankat
12-05-2003, 10:56 AM
Hi Martin. Maybe it would be easier if you think of it this way....

Say you paint in oils, so you post in the oil painting forum. You don't paint still lives, but there are many others who do. Would you go in and request that all still life oil painters have a separate forum or not post their images so you don't have to look at them?

Just as the oil forum has several different subjects and posts images in order to get feedback, the Internet Sales Strategies forum has several different internet venues and posts links in order to get feedback. Certainly, ebay is the most popular subjects matter, but other subjects come up. Since there is a common ground of "selling via the internet," it's good to keep all these things in one forum because ebayers have good advice to give someone designing for personal website sales and vice versa. :D The links people post in the forum are a way to get feedback, not to promote auctions. Whenever it becomes obvious that a member is using WC just to promote their business or personal ventures, a moderator steps in and takes appropriate action. :)

As an FYI, WetCanvas has a type of selling venue called The Bargain Basement. However, ebay links are not allowed there and prices should be discounted and affordable to other "starving artists."

I don't think you caused a lot of anger. Hopefully the misunderstanding is cleared up. Welcome to WC. :D

Noble
12-05-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Diyart
it seems that I am lost with my position and got it all wrong.
But I have not come to WC to end up in same endless EBAY how to do.

If that is true, hang out at the other forums. This one is specifically geared to internet SALES strategies, and although other internet venues are discussed from time to time, ebay is the one that generates almost ALL of the sales volume. If you want to hang out on ebay hosted fora, knock yourself out.

Why not putting up an EBAY forum. Then everybody could see directly what it`s all about.
Go to ebay and browse/comment to your heart's content.

I understand that the URL`s are allowed,but I consider it a kind of spam!

Since you have to actively subscribe to get updates, or actively surf to this place, it is far from spam. You can shut it off as easily as your faucet (assuming it is in good repair of course)

What advantage do you gain by not having convenient access to a given responders ebay listings?

Secondly, it saves many posters lots of time here when asking or giving advice on auctions because people don't have to ask for ID's and links and such, just click if you want to see. Don't click if you aren't interested.

arlene
12-05-2003, 11:42 AM
are you objecting to us posting only our ebay link or all our links?

if it's all, when someone is talking to me here on wc, and makes a comment, I like to see where that person is coming from. I'm an artist so I like to look at websites, ebay, etc.

as someone who gives critiques here on wc, I find that when I see other works by an artist, I can see their style, how far along they are as an artist, etc.

by doing so, my critiques are geared more to that person's current level of ability, style, etc.

for ex: if someone is painting in an impressionist manner, I'm certainly not going to go in and insist that it needs to look more "real"...but on the other hand, someone who's only been painting a short time, and wants to paint realistically, will need different guidance.

I also do check out everyone's auctions and do bid and buy ONLY from WC members. (unfortunately most of the time it's bid only, as the prices tend to go too high for the ones I want. :crying: ) So yes, I want to see their works.

pampe
12-05-2003, 03:22 PM
Martin, I see you have removed your home page which is too bad, as I wanted to see your work

wayfarer
12-05-2003, 09:25 PM
I have to say that for one, I am so grateful for the posted links. I have learned so much from others in this forum. I may never have found such talent had they not been here.

Chris

LilKitten
12-05-2003, 09:34 PM
What if I want an honest critique about how my auction looks? That is *very* inherently relavant to internet sales strategies, and frankly, to some of us whose coding sucks, we can use all the help we can get.

lilkitten the auctioning kitten

Sumafra
12-06-2003, 02:03 AM
Martin, I remember a time when there was only one business forum and we decided then to separate 'Internet Sales' issues from 'General Business' issues and we now have 2 sections. So it seems that we have already done what you ask for. If you want to read more 'general' business advice, then simply go to the other section and you will not hear about Ebay over there.

sandge
12-06-2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Diyart
Hello,

I referred to the link in posts not to links in the profile.

However meantime I think that I have made complete fool out of myself starting this subject. Obviously I had completely wrong expectations about this forum and this is my fault.

Therefore I want to apologize to this community and I regret that I have caused so much anger. Certainly I will not argue in this way again.

best regards
Martin
It seems to me that Martin has withdrawn his argument and apologised. I don't think we need to keep debating this point.

:)

Diyart
12-08-2003, 02:16 AM
Hello,

I feel quite better as this thread is losing
publicity !
But i want to thank everybody for the postings. All of these contain positions and arguments which I cannot deny.

So finally I understand your points.


best regards
Martin