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StarGate
07-20-2001, 03:22 PM
Please post the colors you would or would not use and why and other colors that you would use instead of. I think the colors I have listed are all single pigment colors.


WHITES
Titanium White
Zinc White

BLACKS
Bone Black
Carbon Black
Mars Black

REDS
Pyrrole Red
Quinacridone Magenta
Quinacridone Red
Quinacridone Red Light
Quinacridone Violet

BLUES
Ultramarine Blue
Phthalo Blue (Green Shade)
Phthalo Blue (Red Shade)
Phthalo Green (Blue Shade)

YELLOWS
Diarylide Yellow
Hansa Yellow Light
Hansa Yellow Medium
Hansa Yellow Opaque
Phthalo Green ( Yellow Shade)

EARTH TONES
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber
Raw Sienna
Raw Umber
Red Oxide
Violet Oxide
Yellow Ochre
Yellow Oxide
Orange Oxide
Quinacridone Burnt Orange
Quinacridone Gold
Transparent Red Iron Oxide
Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide

Neutral Gray"s: N2 thru N8

Einion
07-20-2001, 09:29 PM
Good question StarGate and good idea to post a list like this for opinions. BTW, thanks for posting those links to the two Golden mixing guides, I hadn't spotted them on their site. I've downloaded them to the HD so I can take a longer look.

I'll go through the list and quote some facts and my opinions.

Titanium White
Obviously not much to say about this as you pretty much have to have it and in most acrylic ranges the only white! Whitest white and probably the best all-rounder, with the best opacity (in acrylics at least). Totally lightfast.

Zinc White
Only available from a couple of acrylic makers (Golden and Maimeri are the only two I know of). Generally a cold white although it can be distinctly warm so who knows what to expect?! Fairly transparent, it was traditionally valued for glazing. Generally considered to be totally lightfast.

Bone Black
Usually sold as under the name Ivory Black by manufacturers who should know better. Usually slightly warm in hue, it is usually not as dense as Carbon Black or Lamp Black. My example from Liquitex is slightly transparent which actually makes it very useful in mixes. Generally considered to be totally lightfast.

Carbon Black
Not sure if this is made by anyone other than Maimeri in acrylics. Very dense, highly staining colour. Blackest black. Totally lightfast.

Mars Black
Synthetic iron-based black. Can vary in hue, usually has a cool bias especially noticeable in tints. Can be quite greyish, verging on value 2. Totally lightfast.

Pyrrole Red
I have read this can be medium- to dark valued, and varies from mid-red to slightly violet-biased. Semi opaque I think. Might be the perfect mid-red or you could try Perylene Red, PR178, as an option. Apparently very lightfast.

Quinacridone Magenta
Intense, transparent, dark-valued red-violet. Great for glazes and washes. Lightfast.

Quinacridone Red
An intense medium-valued or dark-valued red. Can have a violet bias but I have read there are orange-biased versions. Superb glazing colour. Very lightfast.

Quinacridone Red Light
Not sure what colour this is, could be another form of the above. Probably very lightfast.

Quinacridone Violet
Very dark, highly staining, red-violet. Semi-transparent apparently. By reputation a superb pigment as are most of the quinacridones. Very useful on the palette. Totally lightfast.

Ultramarine Blue
Considered by many a must on the palette, this is the classic violet-blue. Would mix great violets with any of the violet-reds listed above. Moderately opaque. Totally lightfast.

Phthalo Blue (Green Shade)
Intense, staining, dark-valued green-blue. Great for mixing a wide range of greens. Like all the phthalo colours it can easily dominate mixes so handle with care. Winsor & Newton apparently offer the widest hue difference in the phthalocyanine blues between the GS and RS. Totally lightfast.

Phthalo Blue (Red Shade)
Intense, staining, dark-valued violet-blue. Probably not necessary if you already have Ultramarine as it is not nearly as violet-biased but it is slightly more transparent so possibly more useful for glazing. Totally lightfast.

Phthalo Green (Blue Shade)
Intense, staining, dark-valued blue-green. Both the blue and the yellow shades of Phthalocyanine Green are very useful for mixing a range of intense greens with transparent yellows. Totally lightfast.

Phthalo Green (Yellow Shade)
Intense, staining, dark-valued blue-green. Winsor & Newton apparently offer the widest hue difference in the Phthalocyanine Greens between the BS and YS. Totally lightfast.

Diarylide Yellow
There are a number of colours with this chemical name with varied properties, you would have to be specific about which one.

Hansa Yellow Light, Hansa Yellow Medium, Hansa Yellow Opaque
Another name for Arylide yellows. Like Diarylide Yellow the Colour Index Numbers are important to determine whether they are a good or bad examples of the family (some are have very poor lightfastness, others are good).

Note: supplies of the natural earth pigments are close to or have already been exhausted and they are being replaced with synthetic versions, sometimes without the label indicating this, as the artificial colour can have the same Colour Index Number. The synthetics may not match the exact characteristics of their natural counterparts (like the difference between Yellow Ochre and Mars Yellow) but if you are not familiar with the originals this is not so hard to live with.

Burnt Sienna
Beautiful moderately transparent orange earth. Very useful for neutralising a range of blues. Often used in flesh mixes. Superb glazing colour. Totally lightfast.

Raw Sienna
Superb slightly neutralised orange-yellow. Excellent glazing colour. I don't use it much but when I need to its specific hue is irreplaceable. Totally lightfast.

Burnt Umber
Warm, dark-valued brown. Often described as 'chocolatey' in hue, it can have a slight violet hint. Mixes great darks with Ultramarine Blue. Totally lightfast.

Raw Umber
Dark-valued brown, often slightly lighter in value than Burnt Umber. The best versions (and the most useful IMO) have a slight green tint, especially noticeable in tints. I like it for mixing warm whites. Totally lightfast.

Yellow Ochre
One of my favourite colours and one I hope they can make an exact replacement for! A slightly neutralised medium yellow. Irreplaceable for fleshtones for many people, me included. Mixes some lovely subdued greens. Totally lightfast.

Yellow Oxide
Usually another name for Mars Yellow. Similar to Yellow Ochre but often more opaque and usually a touch more orange in hue. Totally lightfast.

Red Oxide
This can vary quite a bit as I discovered recently when I was looking for a replacement when mine was close to running out. Usually a slightly neutralised orange-red, very opaque. Some people value it for flesh mixes (I like it for ethnic skintones in place of Cad. Red Light). Very useful for mixing neutral greys with a range of blues. Totally lightfast.

Violet Oxide
Don't know for sure what this is. Could be a natural earth like Caput Mortuum or Venetian Red (one of the many forms of PR101) or a commercial name for Mars Violet.

Orange Oxide
Don't know for sure what this is. Could be Mars Orange.

Quinacridone Burnt Orange
Interesting slightly neutralised orange. Can be very similar to Burnt Sienna apparently. Transparent. Very lightfast.

Quinacridone Gold
Interesting golden tan colour. Similar to Raw Sienna apparently. Good for glazing. Very lightfast.

Transparent Red Iron Oxide, Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide
Probably examples of the newer manufactured oxides, apparently very good for glazing. Probably totally lightfast although I have read reports that some of the new iron compounds have not

Neutral Grays: N2 thru N8
Useful if you want to use greys instead of complements to subdue colours which apparently offers less of a hue-shift. You could of course mix them all yourself but they do save a lot of work. Look for the work of Richard Sloane, a very talented bird painter who uses this method to great effect in his acrylics. If you want to give this idea a try but don't want to fork out for the whole range, try buying just value 5 and mix a few of the others yourself simply by adding Titanium White.

Obviously there is a great deal more one can say about each colour and how it can be used but I hope this is a good start. I will post my own palette and other recommendations in another post so this doesn't run any longer.

Einion

StarGate
07-21-2001, 01:26 PM
Einion thanks for your thoughtful input to the post and that you found some of my other posts helpful. And I would fine it informational if you would post your color pallete list. As a matter of referance I have listed some links to referance points to colors I did not give enough information on.
I do not know how to use the qoute from message.

you said:
Pyrrole Red
I have read this can be medium- to dark valued, and varies from mid-red to slightly violet-biased. Semi opaque I think. Might be the perfect mid-red or you could try Perylene Red, PR178, as an option. Apparently very lightfast.
link:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/pyrlred.htm

you said:
Quinacridone Red Light
Not sure what colour this is, could be another form of the above. Probably very lightfast.
link:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/quinrdlt.htm

you said:
Diarylide Yellow
There are a number of colours with this chemical name with varied properties, you would have to be specific about which one.
link:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/diayel.htm

you said:
Hansa Yellow Light, Hansa Yellow Medium, Hansa Yellow Opaque
Another name for Arylide yellows. Like Diarylide Yellow the Colour Index Numbers are important to determine whether they are a good or bad examples of the family (some are have very poor lightfastness, others are good).

Note: supplies of the natural earth pigments are close to or have already been exhausted and they are being replaced with synthetic versions, sometimes without the label indicating this, as the artificial colour can have the same Colour Index Number. The synthetics may not match the exact characteristics of their natural counterparts (like the difference between Yellow Ochre and Mars Yellow) but if you are not familiar with the originals this is not so hard to live with.

links here:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/hansylmd.htm
http://www.goldenpaints.com/hansylop.htm
I left off the Hansa Yellow Light as when I read my post and went back to look from your remarks I found it to be of a lightfastness of 2 instead of one

you said:
Violet Oxide
Don't know for sure what this is. Could be a natural earth like Caput Mortuum or Venetian Red (one of the many forms of PR101) or a commercial name for Mars Violet.
link:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/viooxide.htm

you said:
Orange Oxide
Don't know for sure what this is. Could be Mars Orange.
link:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/orngoxid.htm

you said:
Transparent Red Iron Oxide, Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide
Probably examples of the newer manufactured oxides, apparently very good for glazing. Probably totally lightfast although I have read reports that some of the new iron compounds have not
links here:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/trnsrio.htm
http://www.goldenpaints.com/trnsyio.htm

Maybe the above information will help in commenting on the colors

NOTE: I meant to list colors that where not only one pigment but also with a lightfastness of 1.
John

Einion
07-21-2001, 06:38 PM
Hi John, you're welcome.

I should have recognised the range as being from Golden! It probably goes without saying that their products are very highly thought of in acrylic circles so you probably can't go wrong with their products. The comments given by Golden at the bottom of each specific colour page plus the colour 'swatch' at the top (which gives an indication of the undercolour) should help in determining how you might use it.

A very good idea to stick to only lightfastness 1 colours if you care about your work lasting, I do have a couple of colours that are lightfastness 2 but I prefer to stick to 1 as much as possible.

The Pyrrole Red appears to be a very high-chroma (17!) medium red so it should be very useful. Will make cleaner tints and mix purer secondaries than a cadmium red.

The Quinacridone Red Light is a yellower transparent red than the standard Quinacridone Red, PR209. Might be useful but probably not necessary to have both.

The Diarylide Yellow is PY83, a good high-chroma orange-yellow pigment rated I by the ASTM in both oils and acrylics. I would probably prefer a middle yellow and mix any more orange versions but its opacity might be useful to you.

The Hansa Yellow Opaque is PY74 does not have the best reputation but I would trust the Golden lightfastness rating as being accurate. As it says, a more opaque pigment than Hansa Yellow Medium so it might be useful for flower painting, mixing bright greens etc. where you want opacity.

The Violet Oxide is, as I suspected, a form of PR101. Not particularly useful to me but might make a useful addition for painting skintones. Very lightfast.

The Orange Oxide is PY42, better known as Mars Yellow. Useful as a substitute for Yellow Ochre, but I prefer the latter. BTW, their Mars Yellow is a form of Pbr6, which is not the right name for a natural earth yellow.

The Transparent Red Iron Oxide and Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide are what I thought they were, although the yellow is also PY42 so it should be a different form. Probably very useful as subdued glazing colours, but if you don't glaze I wouldn't bother. Should be ultra-reliable.

Einion

StarGate
07-22-2001, 01:20 PM
Thanks Einion,
I am using Golden Paints as the reference point for me to the colors. I understand other artists may use a different brand - so your help with pigment number does help. From what you have posted I think the colors I have listed are single pigments and lightfatness of 1 (please correct if there are any double pigments or lightfastness of 2).
I understand that Pyrrole Red is as good as the Cad Reds?
I have also heard that yellows (other than Cads) are hard to find that are as permanent as the Cads - Any thoughts on the yellows (any brands) that are as permanent as the Cads - what pigment numbers are like Cad Yellow Primrose with a lightfastness of 1 and are single pigment, etc.
John

Einion
07-23-2001, 03:09 PM
I use the twin-primary system, which if you're unfamiliar with it, is basically centred around two of each primary, one cool and the other warm, which allows you to mix clean secondaries (or the reverse if that's what you want). With the addition of black and white this forms the minimum palette you can mix a wide variety of hues from.

I won't get into discussing the pros and cons of different palette systems here, as that will no doubt be covered very comprehensively in the other thread I mentioned above. Suffice it to say that this system works very well on the whole, with the advantage that the underlying principle is fundamentally very simple and gives very predictable mixing results. I should add that, as much as possible, my palette uses opaque colours as I don't have much need for true glazing effects.

FWIW here's my palette with a brief description of each pigment and how I might use it. Following that, my recommendations for alternatives and other hue positions I don't use that others might need. Except where they appear in my palette, I won't bother mentioning again any of the colours listed before.

White
Titanium White, PW6
Finity
Like most people I use more white than any other colour, I use Titanium White exclusively as I only really need an opaque white. As I said before, the whitest white. It is the basis of my caucasian skintones and of course I use it to lighten just about every other colour.

Black
Mars Black, PBk11
Finity
I use black quite a bit in my work so I use a selection for various effects. Mars Black was the only one I used for years. The Winsor & Newton example I have is much wamer than other blacks and slightly lighter-valued. I use this for mixing ethnic skintones where it forms a green with Yellow Ochre than neutralises and darkens Red Oxide.

Bone Black, PBk9
Liquitex
I bought this mainly to see what it was like in comparison to Mars Black. Liquitex's is fairly transparent, darker and cooler than the W&N Mars Black, a surprise since it is often noted for being a warm black. I use this most often in subtle mixes where it is easier to control than Mars Black.

Carbon Black, PBk7
Maimeri
I wanted the blackest black I could find and was pleased to find this under the wrong name supplied my Maimeri. Very black and intense, it is far more staining than either black mentioned above. I use this only for pure black touches.

Green-Yellow
Azo Yellow Light, PY3
Finity
Also called Arylide Yellow Light and Hansa Yellow Light. A bright, light yellow with a slight green bias. Mixes intense greens with Phthalocyanine Blue.

Orange-Yellow
Cadmium Yellow Medium, PY37
Finity
Cadmiums offer some of the best opaque examples in the yellows, oranges and reds. I use this mostly to lighten the cadmium reds and also to mix subdued greens

Yellow-Orange
Cadmium Orange, PO20
Liquitex High Viscosity
A bright, opaque yellow-orange. I bought this before I knew better and nearly never touch it - an almost indistinguishable hue can be mixed from Cadmium Yellow Medium and Cadmium Red Light if you want to save the hefty pricetag.

Orange-Red
Cadmium Red Light, PR108
Finity
An intense, fiery orange-red, it mixes superb oranges with Cadmium Yellow Medium. Also useful for subduing a range of greens, mixing very muted violets and indispensable as the basis of caucasian flesh mixes.

Cadmium Red Medium, PR108
Finity
Also an orange-red, but slightly less bright and intense than the Light version, can be used in a very similar way. Again, I bought this before I knew better, I would choose either one, not both (the light probably being the most useful).

Violet-Red
Naphthol Carbamide, PR170
Finity
Often called Naphthol Crimson, this is a fairly bright red with a slight violet bias, similar to Pyrrole Red. Doesn't mix the very cleanest violets but it's fairly opaque and highly staining which makes it more useful to me than the darker-valued examples.

Violet-Blue
Ultramarine, PB29
Liquitex Medium Viscocity
The classic violet-blue pigment, dark valued and intense. An absolute must if you want to mix your violets.

Cobalt Blue, PB28
Finity
To the naked eye this is very close to a true blue but it usually has a violet bias. Not essential on the palette, but a useful medium-valued blue and easier to control in mixes than Ultramarine. Makes a lovely selection of greens with either of the two yellows mentioned above and a light olive with Yellow Ochre. Unfortunately extremely expensive.

Green-Blue
Phthalocyanine Blue GS, PB15:3
Finity
An intense, dark-valued blue useful for mixing a wide range of bright greens. Even mixed with an orange-yellow the greens are surprisingly bright. The red shade, PB15:1, has very similar handling characteristics but is violet-biased and might be useful if you want a blue of that type for glazing. As mentioned before, Winsor & Newton apparently offer the pair of Phthalo blues with the widest hue difference.

Cerulean Blue, PB35
Finity
Very useful for creating lighter mixed greens and as a sky colour. Indispensable to me as a neutraliser for caucasian fleshtones.

Blue-Green
Phthalocyanine Green BS, PB7
Finity
I think I'll take it for granted that the green I have been using for many years is actually this colour sold at the time as Viridian. An intense blue-green that mixes very clean greens and a useful complement for dark-valued reds.

Yellow-Green
Chromium Oxide Green, PG17
Liquitex Medium Viscosity
A useful medium-valued yellow-green noted for its opacity and muted character, I added this to my palette only recently. Although not the direct complement, it is very similar in value to Cadmium Red Medium so neutralises it well.

Earth colours
Yellow Ochre, PY43
Finity
A slightly neutralised medium yellow that I prefer to Mars Yellow, PY42. Also a cornerstone colour for mixing caucasian skintones for me. Also useful for mixing a wide range of muted greens.

Raw Sienna, PBr7
Finity
One of the few colours I use almost exclusively for glazing where I value its transparency and its very specific hue - a subdued yellow-orange.

Burnt Sienna, PBr7
Finity
A fairly dark, slightly neutralised red-orange noted for its transparency. I also glaze with this to some extent but use it mostly to neutralise blues, particularly Cobalt Blue.

Red Oxide, PR101
Dick Blick
An opaque, slightly neutralised, orange-red of medium value. I use this mostly for neutralising blues and for ethnic fleshtones.

Raw Umber, PBr7
Finity
I have used more than one example of this colour but I prefer examples with a slight green undertone like W&N's. I use it for warming up whites and for subduing a range of darker colours.

Burnt Umber, PBr7
Finity
This is usually the darkest of the earth colours, a deep chocolate brown sometimes with a slight violet undertone. I use this mostly for darkening Ultramarine (makes a good 'indigo') and for skintone shadows.

Alternative colours and other suggestions
Cadmium Lemon, PY35 or PY37 would make a good, slightly more opaque alternative for the green-yellow hue position.

Benzimidazolone Orange H5G, PO62
Similar to Cadmium Orange, it is slightly more transparent. Might have a place on your palette if your subject-matter calls for a lot of this hue. Like most (all?) of the benzimidazolones apparently, a very reliable colour.

Perinone Orange, PO43
Sometimes called Indo Orange Red. Can vary slightly from an almost true orange to red-orange. An intense pigment apparently, might be useful as a glazing colour in this hue position.

Benzimidazolone Orange HL, PO36
Apparently a very close match for true Vermillion if you have a need.

Anthraquinoid Red, PR177
This colour can take the place of Alizarin Crimson on the palette if you have a need for a dark-valued violet-red with superior lightfastness. Will mix excellent dark violets with Ultramarine.
Permanent Madder in the Rembrandt range is this pigment, the only supplier I am aware of for this in acrylics.

Quinacridone Carmine, PR N/A
A deep violet-red, also a very good replacement for Alizarin Crimson.

Ultramarine Violet, PV15
This is probably the best of the blue-violet pigments available today and Winsor & Newton's may be the most useful as it is lighter in value and very saturated although I can't remember if they offer this in acrylics.

Dioxazine Purple (PV23RS)
Also known as Carbazole Violet, look for the RS (red shade) if possible which is slightly more permanent. A deep, slightly unsaturated blue-violet. A nearly identical hue can be mixed from Ultramarine and one of the violet reds.

Cobalt Blue Deep, PB73
A deeper, more intense and more violet-biased pigment than the standard Cobalt Blue. Unfortunately also extremely expensive.

Green Gold, PG10
If you can find this in acrylics it is a fairly light-valued, reasonably opaque yellow-green pigment, with superb lightfastness. Might be very useful in landscape painting.

Barium Chromate Lemon, PY31
A little like Green Gold, but slightly more opaque and 'flatter' apparently. Might be useful for mixing a range of subdued lighter greens.

Hope this is helpful,
Einion

StarGate
07-31-2001, 06:54 PM
Thanks Einion for posting your palette and the comments about the colors and the pigment numbers. I found a link to Golden Paints pigment numbers here:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/pigment.htm
and found this link to Talens on pigment colors here
http://www.talens.com/mainartistinfo.html
Any one know of any other links to acrylic pigments paint numbers please post.
TIA
John

LDianeJohnson
08-01-2001, 06:29 PM
Einion & John,

Thanks so much for posting this discussion and for taking so much time to write about these pigments...much appreciated.

I agree Golden is a fine acrylic. Even someone at Sennelier, who has still not made their way into acrylics (stays with pastel & oil) says that Golden and Lascaux are superb.

Diane

Einion
08-01-2001, 10:54 PM
Thanks Diane, my pleasure. It's always fun to check pigment info, you always find something interesting you missed the last time :)

Einion

StarGate
08-02-2001, 05:32 PM
Thanks Artistry :)
Ditto Einion remarks "find something interesting you missed the last time"

totallynew
07-01-2004, 08:04 AM
was wondering if azo yellow medium from talens, a warm yellow???

Einion
07-01-2004, 01:35 PM
was wondering if azo yellow medium from talens, a warm yellow???
Talens offer three ranges in acrylics so check their website for the appropriate colour. The swatch should give you a good idea if your monitor is halfway decent and if you're buying the paint in person you can just open the tube and have a look.

Einion

laudesan
07-09-2004, 09:50 PM
If you want a superior quality acrylic at a reasonable price I might add.

Check out M.Graham (http://www.mgraham.com/html/acrylic.htm)

They have also brought out 35 new colours ..

You can email ([email protected]) for any info you need. Lovely people and wonderful to deal with.. :)

Einion
07-11-2004, 11:33 AM
Hi Judy, I've seen mention of the new colours they are bringing out before in another forum but so far no list or chart of what they might be, any ideas?

Einion

Marty C
07-11-2004, 08:16 PM
Hi Einion,
This thread would be very useful as a sticky - a wonderful explanation of the different colours available, something everyone, particularly newbies, would find invaluable.
Don't forget to rate this thread!