First post here - copy after soldier in Leonardo's 'Battle of Alghiari'

[DanaT]

Hello. :) This is my first post in this forum.

I went to the Leonardo retrospective in the Met last May and it was amazing. All of Leonardo's drawings in one place. It took me 2 nights to look through everything and my eyes were almost swollen shut after staring so long but it was definitely worth it.

While I was there, I picked up the fantastic book that accompanied the exhibition and had been meaning to do some copies but never got around to it. Well now that I want to concentrate on charcoal handling and values in the style of the Old Masters, I finally did.

This one is in charcoal and black chalk. The book says that Leonardo used a very soft black chalk for this, somewhat between a modern black chalk and a charcoal. Because Leonardo was left handed, I had to turn the paper around to copy his hatching style. The book said also that Leonardo started with diagonal hatching and then blended the hatch marks. I waited till the very end before I blended mine. I think Leonardo may have blended his earlier.

I had to reclaim some light areas with a kneaded eraser and was wondering if Leonardo had something similar or was he so good, did he get it on the first try. Any other Leonardo fans here? :)

Comments, critiques appreciated.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Nov-2003/6512-CopyafterLeonardo.jpg

Original:

http://www.visipix.com/cgi-bin/view?q=2\Leonardo&n=110&p=5&l=en&u=1

[Classical Vince]

Great job Dana! Copying masterworks is on my To Do list too. I bet that show was incredible! Sounds like you got an eyefull for sure.

I can appreciate the challenge of working with crosshatching especially with black chalk. You did a great job laying them and I like the expression you captured.

What brand of chalk are you using? I know some of the more oily types can be hard to remove once laid down. Im nowhere near being a Leonardo! I make mistakes! You shouldnt have had too much of a problem lifting out the charcoal...it's gotta be the chalk thats fighting you.

btw - A friend in class mentioned that the Met has a "drawing room" where you can ask to view drawings in the collection by appt. (in a library-type room). She told me she sat in front of a Michelangelo for hours. I get chills just thinking about it! It might be a different museum in NY if my memory is failing me. ;)

-CV

[DanaT]

Thanks Vince. I learned that this is actually unidirectional hatching not crosshatching but its easier to control.

I used a Conte crayon but I had the problem of reclaiming the lights even in areas where I used only charcoal. The problem was that if I pressed down too hard, the point of the eraser would blunt itself and I'd end up erasing areas that I didn't want to. If I pressed lightly enough to keep the eraser from squishing, I couldn't erase enough off. Maybe I should use another type of eraser. I've heard of ones shaped like pencil points. Are they any good?

I don't know about the drawing room. That's good to know. I do know that you can apply to copy any drawing or painting at the Met. I haven't gotten the nerve to do so but I will one day. There are a couple of Sargents on my list.

[Classical Vince]

Dana, unidirectional hatching...yeah, this would probably describe Prudohns technique too.

aha! Conte is the culprit! I had one hell of a time lifting it when I tried it too. Im not entirely convinced it was the charcoal. ;)

I use a gentle press after making a sharp tip. The tip will give and smush a little but I turn it and do it again gently; NEVER more than one dab without cleaning it if you are wanting to bring back the paper. Turn and press, turn and press. I found that a good trick is to never rub - that seems to drive the charcoal into the tooth more.

I do use a heavily toothed canson paper and it takes good beating than most. Hope to see more of your work with this technique.

btw - my friend mentioned that the drawing room was nearly abandoned. She was basically alone so it would be nicer if you want to draw a master *without* all the onlookers. I dont like drawing in public.

[DanaT]

Originally posted by Classical Vince

I use a gentle press after making a sharp tip. The tip will give and smush a little but I turn it and do it again gently; NEVER more than one dab without cleaning it if you are wanting to bring back the paper. Turn and press, turn and press. I found that a good trick is to never rub - that seems to drive the charcoal into the tooth more.

...

btw - my friend mentioned that the drawing room was nearly abandoned. She was basically alone so it would be nicer if you want to draw a master *without* all the onlookers. I dont like drawing in public.

Thanks for the tip Vince! I used Canson for this, it seemed to do the trick but I didn't beat the paper up that much. Don't worry about drawing in public. The casual onlooker is incredibly impressed with the least amount of talent.

edit: I forgot to add, the difference between Prudhomme and Leonardo is that Prudhomme hatched along the length of the form, Leonardo hatched across the width of the form. I don't know if Prudhomme's hatches were straight or curved lines but Leonardo's was almost always curved lines. Both artists blended but I believe Prudhomme blended more.

[Biki]

Dana

You & Vince have me itching to get the pencils out once again.

I have been painting in oils 18 months, but have been fascinated with classic realism all my life.

I used to draw a bit when I took a holiday - but never gathered any technique - never thought there was much to gather - but the two of you have shown me how wrong I was.

bravo!!

biki

[artmom]

Well done! I really like some of Leonardo's work. Got to see some IRL on my visit to Italy. He's fascinating to study.

Lyn

[DanaT]

Thanks for looking and commenting, biki and Lyn. :)

Lyn, what is IRL?

[jgarroyo]

i went to that show in may also, coulda seen you there? that show changed my life, it was the best exhibition i've ever seen. it was because of that show that i started drawing again after 15 years. i picked up a set of pencils the day after the show and have been hooked ever since. i have the book from the show (bought at amazon cheaper).
you're drawing is beautiful and a nice hommage. great energy to it.
i should be visiting the met soon as they are having a show right now with drawings running thru january, and i love their christmas tree, too bad no pics allowed. take care.

[arlene]

Originally posted by DanaT
Thanks for looking and commenting, biki and Lyn. :)

Lyn, what is IRL?

In real life...LOL

[arlene]

you did a wonderful job on this dana. I must say your work gets better and better!

Biki, drawing skills really need to come before painting skills. It's the basis for painting.

[ArtistOz]

DanaT, you are so lucky to see those drawings and buy a book on them I am so envious. Copying masterworks is a good way to learn how they did it it puts you ahead of the game its a bit like Leonardo is teaching you privately. I have so many contempory books on drawing but they don't compare to the old masters.

[DanaT]

Thanks arlene,

Yes Bill, its a great learning experience to copy from the Old Masters but a lot of people don't think about it. These great works are all around us everyday (how many times have you seen the Mona Lisa or the statue of David?) so we start to take them for granted and don't even stop to think to copy them.

I think the book is available on Amazon or maybe the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York still has a copy. I highly recommend it. Good commentary on Leonardo's techniques and education and great reproductions.

[fugitive]

Yes, I like this. I'm surprised that art like Da Vinci's lasted so long, my early stuff is all gone. Keep up the good works.