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View Full Version : A little lead ed. to Verdaccio and Campsart and others


Titanium
07-18-2001, 11:39 AM
Because I think you guys have talent and should end up in museums ----- go blush in the corner now - chuckle.
[ I am also assuming you guys use Lead White .]

From - Outlines of Paint Technology - N.Heaton

pg.64

"Excerpt - White lead is perfectly stable in pure air and is not affected by light . .... air containing sulphur gases , turning
first yellow , then dingy brown owing to the formation of lead
sulphide ..........

The darkening is generally of a temporary character , as the
lead sulphide first formed oxidises on exposure to sunlight
with formation of the colourless lead sulphate ."
_____________________________________________

Unfortunately there is no mention of how thick a stroke or
impasto should be to resist this . There is information on
Dou's work becoming transparent , as the glazes are very
thin.
Perhaps this is what Rembrandt was correcting with his chalk
additions and thicker paint ?

As usual please verify this information or read for yourself .

Verdaccio , I too am testing the Gamblin Lead Replacement White
, I believe it is 50 Zinc Oxide / 50 Ti02 in linseed oil [ there maybe
a little drier in there - stuff dries in under 2 days Tropical temp.
as a thin stroke -- I expected perhaps 4 days of use ].

Can you add on more about the paint ?
I have never used lead white and wondered about this unusual
body / feel of this Gamblin paint .
Thanks in Advance ,
Titanium

[ Indoor light can be 1000 lux - out doors over 250,000 lux ,
see a Photographer , I believe you guys use footcandles - reaction of light [ UV etc. ] should still occur but more slowly ]

Titanium
07-18-2001, 11:42 AM
Oh Fellahs ,

my laptop screen is damaged and am waiting for a replacement.
Presently , I am viewing on a 16 colour external monitor.
Effectively , I am image blind .

So I can make no comments on anyones' work .
Not ignoring you guys.
Titanium

Scott Methvin
07-18-2001, 12:07 PM
Hi Kim,

A guy named TITANIUM shouldn't give advice on LEAD!
(Just kidding-chuckle)

My lead dries enough to glaze in about 2 hours. It is better to wait overnight, but this explains how plein aire painters were able to paint so effectively in the bad old days.

There are no good tubed leads for sale out there. Too much extemperaneous crap in them. Maybe Doak or Sarkana- but certainly none of the bigger manufacturers. Make it yourself or never know the real magic of lead. It's cheap and easy.

Verdaccio
07-18-2001, 01:12 PM
Hi Kim, and thanks for the info - I think I am done blushing now - thank you for the wonderful comment.

Interesting findings about Lead White and darkening - have to keep the paintings away from Sulphur! Although with today's pollutants in the air, who knows - the air is certainly much more dirty than it was 500 years ago - although they burned a lot of candles and open flames then which we don't today. I really suspect (and hope) that any darkening would bleach out with exposure to air and normal room light.

Oils certainly do become more translucent over time - that is established in fact with the five legged horse at the Prado - Pentemente (sp?). We have some paintings in the museums here in Denver where the top colors where very thin and the paintings begin to look slightly monochrome and only very slightly green from the verdaccio showing through - actually they are beautiful. I expect that is what my paintings may end up looking like if they end up in a collection or a museum and not in a garbage dump! :)

As for the Flake White Replacement, I am deciding that it is really kind of ok. I mixed no liquin with it and it dried to the touch in about a day and a half - fairly substantial strokes too. Colorado is NOT a humid place - makes for good drying. Although Scott I believe would make the point that it is a solution looking for a problem - and probably rightly so.

I like the Utrecht Flake White a lot. I find it to be quite buttery in consistency and very neutral white. The Gamblin stuff reminds me more of Titanium white, but with a lot more oil mixed in. Most Titanium that I have used is very stiff - this is much more creamy. As for whiteness, I find that it has a slight blue/green tint to it - almost imperceptible unless you put it next to a pile of Flake and a pile of Titanium. It is glossy out of the tube and Flake is kind of like satiny. My Titanium is still the whitest, Flake next, then the Gamblin. The tube I got threw a lot of oil. I have concerns about putting this into my underpainting as it seems to be very oil heavy and feels very fat.

Speaking of making your own lead white....Scott... I have seen several posts around about it, but still don't know where to get the stuff, what to grind it with, how long to grind it, etc. It would be helpful not only to me, so can you describe your process of making lead white and where you get the stuff to do it?

Titanium
07-18-2001, 02:07 PM
Ha ha ha , thanks Scott ,

I came across the chemical process of Translucencey and thought
you guys , might appreciate the explanantion.

Verdaccio ,

This use of Gamblin Replacement White is mostly my
curiousity .

** does this happen to you -- if I leave the Gamblin white
on my palette after 15 to 20 minutes the paint stiffens ?
Titanium

*** I have never painted with just Ti02 mulled in oil .
My test panels in the sun , show that this type of paint
is the first to "chalk" [ powder ]. Even if I use the superior
Ti02 and sun thickened linseed oil .

The 20 % by weight zinc oxide , Ti02 blend lasts and lasts ,
in the sun.

Verdaccio
07-18-2001, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Titanium
Ha ha ha , thanks Scott ,

** does this happen to you -- if I leave the Gamblin white
on my palette after 15 to 20 minutes the paint stiffens ?
Titanium

Actually, I went to get some lunch and left the three piles I referenced sitting on my palette. When I came back and read your note I checked them out. I didn't really notice that the Gamblin was any stiffer than when I left. BTW: Where in the West Indies do you live?

Einion
07-18-2001, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Scott Methvin

A guy named TITANIUM shouldn't give advice on LEAD! (Just kidding-chuckle)

Hehe.


There are no good tubed leads for sale out there. Too much extemperaneous crap in them. Maybe Doak or Sarkana- but certainly none of the bigger manufacturers. Make it yourself or never know the real magic of lead. It's cheap and easy.

I can't debate any of the mass-market Flake Whites being any good, but I hope if you make your own you take suitable precautions against the dust!:)

Verdaccio, you can get Flake White pigment (plus genuine lead/antimony Naples Yellow if you’re interested, and even genuine Fra Angelico Blue if you're rich!) from a number of sources online but it's probably best to go to <A HREF=http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/englisch/homee.htm>Kremer</A> direct, as most (all?) of the others get it from them in the first place! They have a stunning range of pigments and additives and I think they have the best prices online but you might want to shop around a bit to check as I haven't compared prices in a while.

Einion

Verdaccio
07-19-2001, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Einion


Verdaccio, you can get Flake White pigment (plus genuine lead/antimony Naples Yellow if you’re interested, and even genuine Fra Angelico Blue if you're rich!) from a number of sources online but it's probably best to go to <A HREF=http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/englisch/homee.htm>Kremer</A> direct, as most (all?) of the others get it from them in the first place! They have a stunning range of pigments and additives and I think they have the best prices online but you might want to shop around a bit to check as I haven't compared prices in a while.

Einion

Thanks for the reference Einion. I will check them out. :)