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bartc
07-13-2019, 10:01 AM
I just framed one of my new pastels under regular glass and it just DIED!!!!! Even without any obvious reflections, it looks very dull. It's glazed 1/8" away from the glass with an econospacer.

So I have some questions:
1) Is museum glass that much better that the luster and brilliance will likely show again?
2) Is using a spacer and some space between painting and glass the problem?
3) Is that passe partout technique of sandwiching directly against the glass going to help with museum glass or regular glass?

Please help!!!!

DAK723
07-13-2019, 02:39 PM
While you mention that you used regular glass, I have to wonder if it is in fact non-reflective glass. Regular glass would have obvious reflections, but I always felt that regular, reflective glass was still a better option than those types of glass that were non-reflective, with the exception of museum glass, as other cheaper non-reflective glass dulls the painting considerably. Not sure if the space between paining and glass matters. I know with true museum glass, it doesn't matter much if at all (I always framed with a spacer).

If possible, get your glass directly from a framing store. They should be able to have different types of glass for you to actually look at and demo.

I haven't framed a pastel in years, so maybe someone has some better, more up to date info.

Good luck!

Don

bartc
07-13-2019, 04:21 PM
Well, I broke down and went back to Cheap Pete's to try out TruVue museum glass.

It works better. Can't say it's night and day, but enough better that I don't feel heartsick about what the painting lost. I also sandwiched it directly to the glass and that may have helped; certainly helped the buckling that the paper had due to wet wash.

Can't say I've really answered my questions, though. Have to see what happens with other works to tell.

One thing for sure: museum glass by any manufacturer is EXPENSIVE!

bartc
07-13-2019, 10:36 PM
While you mention that you used regular glass, I have to wonder if it is in fact non-reflective glass. Regular glass would have obvious reflections, but I always felt that regular, reflective glass was still a better option than those types of glass that were non-reflective, with the exception of museum glass, as other cheaper non-reflective glass dulls the painting considerably. Not sure if the space between paining and glass matters. I know with true museum glass, it doesn't matter much if at all (I always framed with a spacer).

Don
Don it was not non-reflective glass at all. But it certainly wasn't "white glass".

contumacious
07-15-2019, 05:20 PM
Passe-Partout will look better with whatever glass you use when compared to a spacer framed piece with the same glass. Below is a novella for you to read at your leisure.

Something to consider on your next framing job - To get the maximum clarity under glass that can be obtained, consider using the following materials and techniques. Be aware that those who have never used this framing method and almost ALL framing shops will tell you it will ruin your painting, but it will not. There simply is not a better framing method out there if you want the sharpest and brightest looking presentation. I have used them all.

1 - Use the 100+ year old french method of framing with the glass in contact with the pastel painting. Sometimes called Passe-Partout, though that is technically an incorrect term for it. It is essentially a glass in contact air tight sealed package. Best used with full coverage pastel paintings, preferably on sanded papers like UArt and Pastel Premier.

https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-mediums/pastel/pastel-pointers-blog-passe-partout-framing/

There are also several threads on WC about this, some of which are mine spouting the glass sandwich propaganda!

2 - Use Groglass AR Water White glass. No need for any other brand. TruVue UV blocking Museum glass has a coating on the inside that is soft and scratches very easily. You really can't even clean it safely if it gets stuff on it. Their non UV might not have that coating, but both of them are very hard to clean and much easier to scratch than the Groglass brand. Groglass high UV blocking does not have the same problems as the TruVue. You will generally pay less for the Groglass brand and get equal or better results. They offer several different levels of AR glass. You can order it online if your local framer doesn't stock it.

3 - Wear gloves and clean both sides of the glass using a quality coated optic cleaner like what you would use on a camera lens or high quality eye glasses. Don't use Windex.

4 - Be sure to sandwich your painting between the glass AND a rigid backer board. Matte board is barely rigid enough and will work but something more rigid id better such as sealed tempered hardboard, Gatorbord, ACM panels etc. It is best if the pastel painting, glass and backer board are all the exact same size.

5 - Do the "package" sealing in a humidity controlled room that is not too humid. Dryer is better. You want dry air inside the sealed package.

6 - Tap off any really tall and puffy strokes that shouldn't be there regardless of how you frame it as they will eventually fall off.

7 - Make sure the glass is extremely clean on the INSIDE. Outside isn't as critical right now as you can clean it later. Wear gloves.

8 - Don't slide the glass around when building the sealed package. Lay it down flat and squared up and don't shift it if you can help it. You can use small tabs of tape to stabilize it before you lay down full length strips.

9 - Seal ALL FOUR SIDES with clear or black museum tape with about 1/8 over the glass, the rest wrapped around behind and securely pressed down. I use a plastic tool to firmly adhere it. Start with one edge then do the opposite side, then the two remaining ones. If you leave unsealed edges, you may get moisture entry problems later.

10 - Once done, clean the outside of the glass with the same cleaner, wearing gloves, and you are ready to pop it into a regular oil painting type frame.

bartc
07-15-2019, 06:51 PM
Contumacious, I had read your post elsewhere on this. It does work. Q is where to get Groglass. I can't find it around here nor a place to buy it cut online.

contumacious
07-18-2019, 11:47 AM
I am a broken record when it comes to this topic - for those who know what a broken record is.....click, pop, for those who know what a broken record is....click, pop, for those who know what a broken record is....etc. :angel:

These guys sell it cut to size and will also ship full sized sheets in the factory boxes if you ask.

https://www.framedestination.com/framing-supplies/glass-and-acrylic/artglass-ww-ar.html

I would look for a wholesale framing supply source (not a framing shop) near you so you can get it at wholesale pricing and pick it up to save on shipping, plus no sales tax if you have a business license. No sense paying sales tax twice, you and your buyer, if you don't have to.

We buy from these guys. They have 10 locations in the US.

http://www.cmimoulding.com/

We get enough to last us about a year for the best price, plus the closest source is 5 hours away so we plan the buy when we are going through there for other reasons such as visiting family. You will save quite a bit over the price on the first website if you are buying full boxes. I usually get the 24x32 and cut to size with my Logan matte / glass cutter. It cuts very easily but it is super thin so you need to be more careful with it than standard glazing.

bartc
07-18-2019, 04:29 PM
Thanks Contumacious

contumacious
07-26-2019, 08:56 PM
You are welcome.