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bartc
07-07-2019, 11:45 PM
OK, so now I'm discovering some of the downsides of pastels. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the upsides. But handling and mounting and framing are EXPENSIVE!!!!

So I have a lovely soft pastel painting done on Mi Teintes paper that buckled a bit from wet underpainting. I want to frame it without a mat. How do I mount that on foamcore or whatever for framing now that it's painted? (Should have known to do it before hand. You live and learn....)

My Beloved Muse
07-10-2019, 05:45 PM
Hi Bart,

I suspect that if others haven't already replied, it may be that there isn't an easy fix to your problem. By now you've seen that Canson MT will ripple when interacting with water. I've read of someone else on this forum who had claimed it possible to stretch Canson as one would watercolor paper, allowing one to use water on the paper that will afterwards dry flat. See the following:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720111

I have no experience with the above procedure, and it obviously won't help you with your current pastel problem.

What may be worth doing is reviewing the following two articles to see if they offer you a way out:


https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-mediums/pastel/keeping-the-pastel-surface-flat-techniques-for-stretching-and-mounting-paper/


www.artistsnetwork.com/art-mediums/pastel/techniques-for-stretching-and-mounting-paper-keeping-the-pastel-surface-flat-part-2/

In the past I have flattened watercolors by simply wrapping them in glassine and placing it between matboards, weights placed on top. I have no idea if this will work on mi-tientes. I hope you can find a solution that works for you.

Good luck!

bartc
07-11-2019, 09:48 AM
Muse, thanks for trying. I'll research those links.

I did solve my issue for this painting. Because the distortion wasn't too bad, I was able to back it and use econospacers with no mat framing, That pulled it into shape enough behind the glass for my purposes.

But if Canson isn't up to wet underpainting, which I use sometimes, I'll have to go for other papers or mount them first. I've started with Pastelmat and it doesn't have this weakness. But it's more expensive and also doesn't have the range of colors Canson is favored for.

As to mounting Canson's lovely colored papers first, is there a link you know of for how to do that without the acid issue cropping up?

Thanks.

My Beloved Muse
07-11-2019, 12:19 PM
But if Canson isn't up to wet underpainting, which I use sometimes, I'll have to go for other papers or mount them first. I've started with Pastelmat and it doesn't have this weakness. But it's more expensive and also doesn't have the range of colors Canson is favored for.


Well, according to the first link I gave you, it sounds as if you could use gouache on it, but you'll need to stretch it first, as you would watercolor paper. You could try mounting it first to board to see how that works. If you were to use alcohol or mineral spirits with pastels as a wet underpainting, no stretching or mounting will be required. They don't ripple paper like water does.

Btw, I plan on stretching Canson in the next few days. I'll respond to this thread to let you know how it went, if you'd like. I like working on Canson and want to try gouche and opaque watercolors on it as a underpainting/mixed media experiment.


As to mounting Canson's lovely colored papers first, is there a link you know of for how to do that without the acid issue cropping up?


Unless you want to purchase Canson MT board, which the online retailers usually still carry, you could wet mount with an acrylic medium, covered with weights on top. Or you could also dry mount with Grafix brand Double Tack Mounting Film. The third link I placed up thread will discuss using these two options.

bartc
07-11-2019, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the info, Muse. I'll wait to hear how your experiment goes.

My Beloved Muse
07-14-2019, 12:32 PM
Hi Bart,

I was prepared to stretch Canson paper, but then I thought that when working on MT, I always place a second sheet of paper between it and drawing board I clip onto because I like the cushion it provides when applying strokes. Then, thinking further, I realized that it would be easier and more efficient to mount the paper to archival museum board. Besides, I didn’t want to deal with tape or take staples out of the board afterwards. So, using liquitex matte medium, I managed to mount smaller pieces of Canson MT to museum board by brushing the board, cut to size, with matte medium and gently placing the paper on the board. I then placed a sheet of kraft paper over top to smooth out the paper, then placed a piece of foamcore before placing large books on top as weights. I came back an hour later and coated the other side of the board with the medium as well, leaving it to dry for a day.

A word of caution: try this with smaller pieces first as even half a sheet of MT can be troublesome to mount in this way. Smaller pieces will allow you to experience some of the pitfalls and work through the intricacies involved. A possibly useful tool would be a rubber brayer to smooth the paper. The biggest problem I had was learning what the “sweet spot” was for how moist the matte medium needs to be to allow a good, seamless bond. So yeah, it can be done, but it will take some learning to become proficient at it. And, afterwards, you’ll have a board that is up to watery techniques.

Or you could skip all of this work and buy Canson mi-teintes board at Blick which is their paper mounted on board. From the reviews I read on DickBlick, it sounds as if some have used gouache on it without the board warping. The only drawbacks: I cannot find anyone selling it at any size other than 16 x 20”. In addition, the board only comes with the textured side showing. Still, at $4.00 a board, that’s pretty cheap. If you’re near a hobby lobby, you could purchase one to try to see if it satisfies your needs.

Good luck!

bartc
07-14-2019, 05:55 PM
Hi Bart,

I was prepared to stretch Canson paper, but then I thought that when working on MT, I always place a second sheet of paper between it and drawing board I clip onto because I like the cushion it provides when applying strokes. Then, thinking further, I realized that it would be easier and more efficient to mount the paper to archival museum board. Besides, I didn’t want to deal with tape or take staples out of the board afterwards. So, using liquitex matte medium, I managed to mount smaller pieces of Canson MT to museum board by brushing the board, cut to size, with matte medium and gently placing the paper on the board. I then placed a sheet of kraft paper over top to smooth out the paper, then placed a piece of foamcore before placing large books on top as weights. I came back an hour later and coated the other side of the board with the medium as well, leaving it to dry for a day.

A word of caution: try this with smaller pieces first as even half a sheet of MT can be troublesome to mount in this way. Smaller pieces will allow you to experience some of the pitfalls and work through the intricacies involved. A possibly useful tool would be a rubber brayer to smooth the paper. The biggest problem I had was learning what the “sweet spot” was for how moist the matte medium needs to be to allow a good, seamless bond. So yeah, it can be done, but it will take some learning to become proficient at it. And, afterwards, you’ll have a board that is up to watery techniques.

Or you could skip all of this work and buy Canson mi-teintes board at Blick which is their paper mounted on board. From the reviews I read on DickBlick, it sounds as if some have used gouache on it without the board warping. The only drawbacks: I cannot find anyone selling it at any size other than 16 x 20”. In addition, the board only comes with the textured side showing. Still, at $4.00 a board, that’s pretty cheap. If you’re near a hobby lobby, you could purchase one to try to see if it satisfies your needs.

Good luck!
You're right: for all that work, why bother! I'm finding Pastelmat to be far superior anyway. Only difference is the range of colors on MT is wider.

No HL nearby.

Answer to my mounting of the already painted picture was to just sandwich it directly between archival backing and museum glass. The latter was tooooo expensive, but it works very well. From what I'd read, despite common advice on mounting away from glass, it's a valid and conservation wise technique anyway. But this is a one-off. I'm never using MT again.

contumacious
07-25-2019, 03:15 PM
If you have access to a heated dry mounting press, warped papers can often be made perfectly flat by mounting them to a rigid support such as sealed hardboard, ACM Panels, foam core etc.

Be sure to use a sheet of silicone release paper on top of the painting and ideally you would want to use a reversible adhesive such as Beva 371 or others. It is best to mount the paper before you work on it, but if you are careful, it can be mounted with no damage to the work.