PDA

View Full Version : Keep palette wet for next day or week


axel9546
04-12-2019, 02:56 AM
Hi
Ive tried clove oil to keep my palette read formnext day use but is too much odor for me. Do you know any other way?

Richard P
04-12-2019, 04:48 AM
Palette in a closed box in the dark, possibly in a fridge. Use a more oil rich medium like walnut oil.

AnnieA
04-12-2019, 08:51 AM
To follow up on Richard's comment, yes, a box is probably the answer for you. The one that many oil painters prefer is a Masterson box, sold at most art supply stores that sell oil paint. It forms an air-tight seal, and can be put in the fridge or freezer. Last time I purchased one it was a little over $15, and well worth it. They're large enough in size to hold a 12x16 palette. The one with the blue lid is for oil paints; if you use other media, the other options, made for acrylic and (I think) watercolor, may work just as well. The other ones come with a large sponge that can be wetted to keep the paint from drying out, but it's removable. If there is one for watercolor, it probably has something with wells for the paint, so make sure that it's removeable before purchasing it, if you want it to hold an oil palette.

Ted Bunker
04-12-2019, 10:28 AM
I put my oil paints in one of those smallish Mijello-type air-tight palettes and store in the freezer. It's compact but I prefer a separate glass surface or a disposable palette as my mixing palette anyway. Personally I like the sloped paintwells to keep the paints clean and separated, but you can always use the flat palette-lid for your paint piles. Any mixed paint that I want to save I scrape-up and transfer to the Mijello for tomorrow's use.

If you leave it unopened while the paint "defrosts" and comes to room temperature, you don't get lots of condensation inside. In my basement deep-freezer they practically go inert, ...it's my private glacier at minus-25*F. Just be careful, the plastic gets very brittle.

axel9546
04-12-2019, 12:59 PM
Thanks all. The freezer is a must? Or i have other ways? For example if imbuy this box, (can you link me? Amazon it) can i just close it snd keep overnight?

AnnieA
04-12-2019, 01:43 PM
Link on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/MASTERSON-ART-PRODUCTS-MAS100-Palette/dp/B0027A5GVO?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-osx-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0027A5GVO
Link on Blick: https://www.dickblick.com/products/masterson-sta-wet-palette-seal/

You don't have to put paints in the freezer. To try to make the paint last a week, though, it might be wise to put it either in the freezer or in the fridge. One other thing that will help is to use your palette knife to scrape the wet paint up into piles rather than letting it stay spread out on the palette. When it's spread out it dries faster. Be forewarned that if the weather is warm where you are, or if it's cold and your work area is near a heater, or if there are other envivonmental or other issues that might make the paint dry faster, the paint may not last a whole week out of the fridge/freezer and/or without clove oil. Don't mix oil into the paint as that's likely to complicate things.

Too bad you can't handle clove oil - I find it helps a lot. In a pinch, you can put a drop of spike lavender oil into the paint, as it retards drying quite a bit, but if you don't tolerate clove oil, spike lavender oil might also be bothersome.

french.painter
04-12-2019, 07:42 PM
Glass palette stored soaked under water.

axel9546
04-13-2019, 01:55 AM
Does lavander spike oil odor strong like the clove oil? Its like i cant enter the room with clovee oil.
Is this one? https://www.amazon.it/Naissance-olio-essenziale-Lavanda-10ml/dp/B0049H75V2/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?keywords=olio+di+lavanda&qid=1555134890&s=gateway&sr=8-6
So i tape some paper to the top of the palette seal i use in this case a top cover, then i close all togheter without touching like ive done with clove oil. I hope this oil is not surprising like the clove oil!

Seaside Artist
04-13-2019, 02:30 AM
Yes, it is!

contumacious
04-13-2019, 09:51 AM
Does lavander spike oil odor strong like the clove oil? Its like i cant enter the room with clovee oil.
Is this one? https://www.amazon.it/Naissance-olio-essenziale-Lavanda-10ml/dp/B0049H75V2/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?keywords=olio+di+lavanda&qid=1555134890&s=gateway&sr=8-6
So i tape some paper to the top of the palette seal i use in this case a top cover, then i close all togheter without touching like ive done with clove oil. I hope this oil is not surprising like the clove oil!

The product in your link probably is not Oil of Spike Lavender solvent. It is most likely Lavender Essential Oil. Two very different products. One a strong and probably toxic solvent the other a mild (assumed) therapeutic 'essential' oil. There is no regulation on "essential oils" other than for exaggerated health claims, so we can't know for sure what is in them. I have no idea what that product will do either in your paint box or mixed into your paints.

As far as reactions to Clove Oil and Oil of Spike Lavender Solvent it depends on the individual and the actual products. I like the odor of clove bud / leaf oil. My wife detests it, though it doesn't make her ill. She likes the odor of Sennelier Spike Lavender Oil Solvent but it gives me headaches, burning eyes and respiration problems. Oil of Spike Lavender Solvent is believed by some, my self included to be significantly more toxic than Clove Bud / Leaf Oil despite what I feel are false claims by some vendors.

It appears, based on Tad Spurgeon's comments below, that many products sold to artists that are labeled as "Oil of Spike Lavender" or something similar have added and / or synthetic ingredients and might not contain any real Oil of Spike.

All forms of "spike lavender" sold to painters are synthetic solvents unless they come with a gc/ms readout. - Tad Spurgeon

As an example, some such as Chelsea Lavender Spike Oil Essence likely contain very little if any real Oil of Spike Lavender. A post from Tad Spurgeon on Facebook RE: Chelsea's product - quite a bit of detective work done by him on this. Through his efforts I believe, Blick has posted more information about this product on their website. A long read but very informative.

(I think we aren't supposed to post links to Facebook so look up Tad Spurgeon there. )

I ordered some of the Chelsea Lavender Spike Oil Essence, now admitted to be synthetic by Chelsea, and compared its smell to that of genuine spike lavender. Well, there's no comparison, anyone with a functioning nose could easily tell the difference side by side. So this fraud depended on actual spike lavender being sold only on the essential oil side, not to painters. The promised list of ingredients has appeared on the Dick Blick SDS sheet. The solvent contains: LINALOOL (25-50%); Eucalyptol (10-25%); CAMPHOR GUM (10-25%); alpha-Pinene (1-5%); beta-Pinene (1-5%); d-Limonene (1-5%); TERPINEOL (1-5%); CARYOPHYLLENE (1-5%). Note the *very* wide margins for error in the major ingredients. The SDS also lists all the ingredients now as hazardous, which is in line with the Art and Creative Materials Institute rating of CL (Caution Listing) which has always been on the solvent. So, we have come a long way from the "breathe freely, paint better" ad copy. Compared to real spike lavender it smells very simple, like camphor and eucalyptus (1,8 cineole) with a small amount of linalool (one aspect of the lavender smell) in the background. I did a little research on the ingredients. Linalool is not considered toxic, but oxidized linalool is. 1,8 cineole (eucalyptol) is considered toxic to ingest, slightly toxic in larger amounts when inhaled. Terpineol, alpha and beta pinene are present in higher amounts than in genuine spike: these are also components of turpentine, considered the most toxic of the traditional solvents. Camphor is also considered toxic, to the extent that it is listed in the giant Poisindex database. Toxnet, the database of the National Library of Medicine, states on camphor that the "main target organs are the cns (central nervous system) and kidneys," and that "inhalation above 2ppm (parts per million) irritates nose and throat. Respiratory depression and apnea may occur. Very large exposures cause the same clinical features as ingestion." (Camphor is considered highly toxic when ingested.) So, more on camphor: it was originally distilled from the wood of Cinnamomem camphora, a large evergreen tree native to southeast asia, and this essential oil is available. It has a long history of use in traditional Chinese medicine, mostly topically as an analgesic, ie in something like Tiger Balm. Most camphor, however, is now distilled from turpentine, or is synthetic. So, this brings up something that is very hard to find out about: the difference between the organic (made by the universe) and the synthetic (made in a lab) versions of a given substance. Here the fog of war descends. The adulteration of regular lavender essential oil is so widespread and sophisticated at this point that techniques have been developed to expose this fraud. These techniques involve looking at the molecules involved very closely, because a natural organic molecule is always right-handed, whereas a synthetic molecule is left-handed. (The health issue of the natural (right-handed) fat in butter versus the various man-made hydrogenated fats, where the molecules are left-handed.) There is also the known issue of increased toxicity in these compounds, natural or synthetic, when they are oxidized, which occurs easily in a clear glass bottle that is half full. So, looking into this is uncovering a lot of territory where there are still large questions. I also wanted to mention that Chelsea is not the only company involved in marketing frankenspike. All forms of "spike lavender" sold to painters are synthetic solvents unless they come with a gc/ms readout. If the product is from Europe, the MSDS will, however, explain exactly what is in it. If the product is from America, listing the actual ingredients is not required. - Tad Spurgeon

AnnieA
04-13-2019, 11:28 AM
What is a gc/ms readout? And, if Tad Spurgeon is right about the EU requirement for all ingredients being listed in the MSDS, then why can't we find out what's in Sennelier's Green for Oil products?

axel9546: You may or may not react to the smell of (actual) spike lavender oil. But it would be a pretty costly experiment in order for you to find out, as the stuff is very expensive. You really should try the Masterson box - in the fridge if you can do it - before trying other methods. Maybe that will work for you. BTW, there are also smaller versions of the Masterson box, made primarily for watercolor. If you have space issues in your fridge, you could always purchase one of the smaller boxes (or any air tight box, really, although it may be hard to find one that's the right size), put a small piece of palette paper inside it, and transfer your paints to that.

contumacious
04-13-2019, 12:38 PM
Back to the original topic.....:lol:

Here are my thoughts on how to help keep the paint wet on your palette, each rated 1-5 for effectiveness, 1 being the better, 5 being worse.


1 - Add some slow drying oil to everything on your palette.
1 - Keep it in an air tight container when not in use
1 - Keep it as cold as you can when not in use but do not go below 0 degrees F. My deep freeze ruined some paint when it was running close to 15 below zero on the lowest setting.
1-2 - Keep a wick drenched in Clove Oil nestled in a small open top container, inside the air tight palette box. (Some day I am going to do some testing with this.)
2 and 5 - Store it under water. This worked for me for a while but it totally messed up some of my colors after a month, thus the 1 and 5 rating.
1 - Use paints that are already inherently slow drying
2 - Use a palette that is non absorbent
1 - Don't mix any alkyds or driers into any paint nuts or mixtures that you might want to leave on the palette more than an hour or so.
1 - Use large nuts of paint for your source palette and keep them consolidated. Periodically scrape them into a fresh pile and wipe up the thin leavings before putting away your palette.
1 - Remove drying bits of paint from your source nuts every day. If they start getting stiff, work them with the knife and add a few more drops of Walnut oil. I find that once a nut starts to skin over, it goes downhill rapidly.
1 - Don't leave thin layers of paint on your palette unless you are using them. Consolidate leftovers like you do the nuts if you want to save them. Adding a little Walnut Oil before you put it away helps a lot to keep them wet with mixed paints.


I don't always do everything above, but even one technique is going to help. The three easiest for me are to keep the palette in an air tight box in the fridge or freezer with quite a bit of clove oil on a wick in that box, but not touching the paint.


What is a gc/ms readout? And, if Tad Spurgeon is right about the EU requirement for all ingredients being listed in the MSDS, then why can't we find out what's in Sennelier's Green for Oil products?

A good question. I don't know which products are required by the EU to have an MSDS / SDS sheet. Perhaps their Green Oil is exempt due to the ingredients it contains. I just now tried unsuccessfully to find an SDS / MSDS for Sennelier Spike Oil on their website or any where on the web for that matter. I also noticed that every place in the USA that had previously stocked it, no longer carries it.

Let me make it clear that I am not saying that I think Tad is 100% correct in all his statements, but I do feel they are more credible overall than anything I have seen in discussions about Oil of Spike Lavender - He has done a lot of research on it. Based on my own totally non scientific observation and experience, the Sennelier Spike Lavender I use seems likely to fit somewhere between Gamsol and real Turpentine in its toxicity level, probably closer to the Gamsol. Leaving the word toxicity aside, without question it can be a severe irritant with several side effects that can negatively impact the health and well being of some individuals - but the same goes for peanuts, gluten and shellfish! :angel:

MarcF
04-14-2019, 01:17 AM
To follow up on Richard's comment, yes, a box is probably the answer for you. The one that many oil painters prefer is a Masterson box, sold at most art supply stores that sell oil paint. It forms an air-tight seal, and can be put in the fridge or freezer. Last time I purchased one it was a little over $15, and well worth it. They're large enough in size to hold a 12x16 palette. The one with the blue lid is for oil paints; if you use other media, the other options, made for acrylic and (I think) watercolor, may work just as well. The other ones come with a large sponge that can be wetted to keep the paint from drying out, but it's removable. If there is one for watercolor, it probably has something with wells for the paint, so make sure that it's removeable before purchasing it, if you want it to hold an oil palette.
I have one and it's just the thing.
However I think I remember in the instructions it says don't put it in the freezer. It also said you can seal it airtight using petroleum jelly in the seal - but I have not found it necessary. Maybe for a week. It depends on how fussy you are about partly dried paint. I never fuss about it that much - after a few days it's still quite usable, especially if you add a touch of linseed (or equivalent) oil, or OMS before painting.

contumacious
04-14-2019, 02:34 AM
However I think I remember in the instructions it says don't put it in the freezer.

I own several of the largest sized palette boxes that Masterson makes. I let mine warm up to room temp before removing the lid. I could see the lid cracking if you tried to pry it off directly out of the freezer. The plastic bottom would also be more prone to cracking when at freezing temps if dropped. Mine has survived several years of freezer use.

I forgot one other method that I tried to keep the paint fresh - Carbon Dioxide purging of the palette box. It worked but was kind of messy.

Ted Bunker
04-14-2019, 04:21 PM
The freezer makes many food-grade plastic containers brittle while still cold, I've dropped a few out of my "pet glacier" in the basement and had them shatter or badly crack...where at room-temp they just bounce.