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goldensun
03-29-2019, 02:24 PM
About three years ago here in Brazil, you could buy in Brazilian online stores lead white oil paint or lead white pigment for you making the paint yourself, but since then they have stopped selling, I sent an email to one of the stores asking when lead white paint would be available again and they did not respond. I researched and found overseas stores that export the paint to other countries, but I do not know if they export to Brazil. I also researched how to make the pigment and the paint myself, but I'm afraid it's dangerous, and I'd like to know the safe way to do it and what safety equipment I should use, and what situations I should be aware of in order not to intoxicate myself. besides the email that I sent to one of the stores, I also researched on google the reason why lead white oil paint is not for sale in Brazil and I did not find an answer. Is anyone here telling me what's going on? I also read somewhere that this paint is not available in some European countries, I wonder if the restrictions on lead white are more for the environment or for the health of people who work directly in mining and pigment refinement for the production of paint? Thank you in advance for your response.

AnnieA
03-29-2019, 04:34 PM
Lead is known to be very toxic, especially to children, but also to adults who handle it, including artists. There's more information in a post I recently made, here: https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21573572&postcount=22

RomanB
03-29-2019, 04:44 PM
Chemically, Lead White is a mixture of hydrous and anhydrous lead carbonates. Lead compounds are toxic, so various restrictions are applied to their storage, transportation and sales. It isn't completely banned, but restrictions could be harsh. Here it is available for 80$ per kilogram (https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigald/11513?lang=pt&region=BR).

Gigalot
03-29-2019, 05:23 PM
Time to replace Lead White in oil paint for you. Try 25% Titanium White + 20% Blank Fixe + 1% Zinc White pigment grinding in linseed oil. Or just try ready made replacements.

WFMartin
03-29-2019, 07:25 PM
Lead White is just about the finest White oil paint that one can use for creating a piece of fine art, especially when hand-made. Currently, I refuse to use it because of the outrageous prices of it.

Governments seem to be driven to ban it merely because it is considered to be toxic. Of course it is toxic. It needs to be handled carefully, and as any other material that should not be ingested. I find it interesting that governments do not feel compelled to ban such items as anti-freeze, Clorox, drain cleaner, and other cleaning agents, that are equally as toxic as Lead White paint.

But, aside from that aggravation, perhaps some day an enterprising young person may eventually decide to begin manufacturing that pigment, and creating oil paint from it. When that finally occurs, I will be in line to purchase it, even if it is on the black market, provided the price is less than manufacturers are asking for it at present.

In the meantime, allow it to be said that at least SOME of the positive characteristics of Lead White are involved with its handling, when using it on a palette of colors, for creating an oil painting.

Now, by choosing other oil painting Whites carefully, you can often approximate the handling characteristics of a good, hand-made Lead Carbonate White oil paint, so that set of characteristics can be met, at least as close as possible. One type of Titanium White that I used once, was Fragonard, made by Pebeo. I don't even know whether it exists any more, nor if it still exhibits the same unique characteristics. It was ropy, semi-transparent, and it dried within a normal time frame, although it contained some of the drying oils that I usually try to avoid--Safflower Oil Sunflower Oil, and Poppyseed Oil.

Right now my favorite White Oil paint is Treehouse White offered by The Art Treehouse. Close to the same characteristics of a good Lead White, without being one. I believe it is primarily Titanium White, and its binder is Walnut Oil. Pretty good White!

plnelson
03-29-2019, 08:22 PM
Time to replace Lead White in oil paint for you. Try 25% Titanium White + 20% Blank Fixe + 1% Zinc White pigment grinding in linseed oil. Or just try ready made replacements.
The replacements aren't very transparent so they're not good mixing whites. Just yesterday I was talking to Gamblin about this exact topic. Since they don't make a lead and I'm trying to get away from zinc as a mixing white, I asked what they suggested. They sell a lead white replacement but they admitted that on a scale of 1-10, if zinc has a transparency of 2 and titanium is a 10, and lead white is a 5, then their lead white replacement is a "7 or 8".

They suggested their student-grade 1980 "transparent white" would be the closest to a lead white. We have a local store that sells the 1980 transparent white so I'm picking some up tomorrow.

AnnieA
03-29-2019, 08:31 PM
The replacements aren't very transparent so they're not good mixing whites. Just yesterday I was talking to Gamblin about this exact topic. Since they don't make a lead and I'm trying to get away from zinc as a mixing white, I asked what they suggested. They sell a lead white replacement but they admitted that on a scale of 1-10, if zinc has a transparency of 2 and titanium is a 10, and lead white is a 5, then their lead white replacement is a "7 or 8".

They suggested their student-grade 1980 "transparent white" would be the closest to a lead white. We have a local store that sells the 1980 transparent white so I'm picking some up tomorrow.
That's funny - if you look at the pigment content of the 1980 "Transparent White," all that's listed is PW6, titanium white. That's it. Since titanium isn't transparent, I wonder if they've doctored it with some sort of transparent filler that isn't required to be listed on the label.

I've tried Holbein Ceramic White, which is made of Strontium Titanate (no CI number yet). See this: https://www.dickblick.com/items/00425-1395/#colorpigments It isn't as transparent as zinc, in my view, but still way more transparent than titanium.

There are also paints made of Lithopone, PW5. It's rated on the Color of Art Database as having a transparency of 2, the same as the lead sulphate whites, but not quite as transparent as PW1, which is rated as having a transparency of 1 (scale from 1 to 4). There are a few mfgs that offer a lithopone paint, including Williamsburg and Lukas. See this: https://www.dickblick.com/items/01571-1431/#colorpigments Sarah Sands mentioned that the WB version isn't quite as transparent as zinc white. And the Lukas version for some reason is named Opaque White, which makes me hesitate to try it.

The problem with both the strontium titianate and lithopone white paints is they're really too expensive (at least for me) to use as a go-to white paint. Ceramic white works nicely though, for portraiture.

plnelson
03-29-2019, 09:17 PM
That's funny - if you look at the pigment content of the 1980 "Transparent White," all that's listed is PW6, titanium white. That's it. Since titanium isn't transparent, I wonder if they've doctored it with some sort of transparent filler that isn't required to be listed on the label.
Yes, they do but I couldn't make out the word he used and I feel like an idiot for not asking him to repeat it. But it ended with "pigment", so... "mumble mumble pigment", which I understood from the context of our conversation that it was essentially a transparent pigment.

I've tried Holbein Ceramic White, which is made of Strontium Titanate (no CI number yet). See this: https://www.dickblick.com/items/00425-1395/#colorpigments It isn't as transparent as zinc, in my view, but still way more transparent than titanium.

There's a local art supply store near me that sells a full range of Holbein products and I was eager to try their water mixables but I'll also see if they have the Ceramic White in their regular oils.

Gigalot
03-29-2019, 10:54 PM
The replacements aren't very transparent so they're not good mixing whites. Just yesterday I was talking to Gamblin about this exact topic. Since they don't make a lead and I'm trying to get away from zinc as a mixing white, I asked what they suggested. They sell a lead white replacement but they admitted that on a scale of 1-10, if zinc has a transparency of 2 and titanium is a 10, and lead white is a 5, then their lead white replacement is a "7 or 8".

They suggested their student-grade 1980 "transparent white" would be the closest to a lead white. We have a local store that sells the 1980 transparent white so I'm picking some up tomorrow.
Talens "Art creation" Titanium White is enough transparent with good rheology. It is very creamy paste, that keeps brush strokes very well. When I need extra transparency, I can add calcium carbonate medium to paint. Gamblin solvent free gel is another way to boost transparency of paint.

AnnieA
03-29-2019, 11:40 PM
pinelson: Just FYI, Ceramic White is also available in the Holbein Duo line, and that's what I have. I doubt there's much a difference between the Duo and the regular Ceramic White but thought I should mention it.

Also, just in case you might recognize the name the rep gave you, check out this link: http://www.artiscreation.com/white.html#.XJ65Uy-ZMyk
...but there's an awful lot of them so maybe it's not worth it.

JCannon
03-30-2019, 12:49 AM
"Lead White is just about the finest White oil paint that one can use for creating a piece of fine art, especially when hand-made. Currently, I refuse to use it because of the outrageous prices of it."

Allow me to put in a word -- again -- for RGH's Flake white and Cremnitz white. The Italian Art Store (https://www.italianartstore.com/store/RGH-Cremnitz-White.html) is offering the stuff at 25 bucks for 125 ml. Compare to the WN Titanium White, which is $46.59 list for 200 ml. Of course, if you scout around, you can find WN products for as much as half off the list price.

Rolf's lead white can be ordered with your choice of oil -- safflower, walnut and linseed. It's a good product for a reasonable price.

For stack process white (the stuff used in olden days) -- which I long to try -- you will indeed have to pay. $82 list for 40 ml of the Michael Harding version, $87 for the Natural Pigments version, $65 for the Artistic Lineage (https://artisticlineage.com/products/flake-white-stack-process-lead) offering.

In a class by itself, apparently, is Blue Ridge's Flemish White, which cost $17 a tube. A reasonable price for such a rarity. This lead white was developed in the 19th century and apparently has a thinner, more "inky" consistency. RGH also offers a Flemish for $15 a tube. For reasons I don't understand, Rolf offers the stuff only in linseed oil, although you may be able to talk him into making a special batch. The Blue Ridge is bound in a mixture of walnut and safflower oil, both of which yellow less than linseed.

Grimbo
03-30-2019, 06:50 AM
About three years ago here in Brazil, you could buy in Brazilian online stores lead white oil paint or lead white pigment for you making the paint yourself, but since then they have stopped selling, I sent an email to one of the stores asking when lead white paint would be available again and they did not respond. I researched and found overseas stores that export the paint to other countries, but I do not know if they export to Brazil. I also researched how to make the pigment and the paint myself, but I'm afraid it's dangerous, and I'd like to know the safe way to do it and what safety equipment I should use, and what situations I should be aware of in order not to intoxicate myself. besides the email that I sent to one of the stores, I also researched on google the reason why lead white oil paint is not for sale in Brazil and I did not find an answer. Is anyone here telling me what's going on? I also read somewhere that this paint is not available in some European countries, I wonder if the restrictions on lead white are more for the environment or for the health of people who work directly in mining and pigment refinement for the production of paint? Thank you in advance for your response.

Yes a lot restrictions now with lead white - It think it's regarding concerns for both health & the environment. Here in the UK you can only get it in big cartridges for a cartridge gun, which I have. Mainland Europe seems to be devoid of pre-made lead white but I've been excited to see it in the stores in the U.S. when over painting murals there.
I have lead powder also but been wary of using it as I have two new naughty kittens that I worry may get into the studio one day.

Could you order from the U.S?