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weidox
03-03-2019, 05:11 AM
I have a few older tubes of W&N paint, with the "black shield" "W N" logo, and these do not have pigment/vehicle info on tubes. Were these produced before or after W&N switch to use safflower for lighter colors?

sidbledsoe
03-03-2019, 02:55 PM
Can you post a pic of the tubes?
fellow member Brian Firth (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1352695) is the resident expert vintage paint collector here on these types of vintage paint formulation related questions and a PM to him would probably prove illustrative.
An email to Winsor Newton may also be a good option.

Marc Kingsland
03-03-2019, 03:45 PM
I had a problem many years ago of oil paints gelling or 'livering' in the tube. Every single one of these happened to be bound in safflower oil. (although not all safflower oils became gelled paints) I gave up on a whole range of paints because of this.
I then turned back then to Winsor and Newton*, but then suffered from another livered tube, and not a cheap one at that. By now W&N had started putting the pigments and oil on the tubes and sure enough this was a safflower one. I wrote a letter to Winsor and Newton explaining what I thought was part of the fault (safflower oil) Sent them the offending tube and was nicely sent two replacements. Plus; the information that they'd been using safflower in some of their colours since the 1960's and they didn't think this was the problem. (They did however have the same fault with other tubes with the same batch number.)
So there you go, there maybe safflower in them.

*In the present I no longer hold strict allegiance to one brand.

savras
03-04-2019, 03:22 AM
I don't have that old tubes, but here's list of newer W&N paints I own and oils they use:
Bismuth Yellow - safflower
Bright Red - linseed
Brown Ochre - linseed, safflower
Burnt Sienna - linseed, safflower
Cadmium Lemon - safflower
Cadmium Red - linseed, safflower
Cadmium Red - linseed, safflower
Cadmium Yellow - safflower
Cadmium Yellow Pale - safflower
Cerulean Blue - safflower
Charcoal Grey - linseed, safflower
Cobalt Blue - safflower
Cobalt Chromite Green - safflower
Cobalt Turquoise - safflower
Cobalt Turquoise Light - safflower
Cobalt Violet - safflower
Flesh Tint - linseed, safflower
French Ultramarine - linseed, safflower
Green Gold - linseed, safflower
Indian Yellow Deep - linseed, safflower
Light Red - linseed, safflower
Manganese Blue Hue - safflower
Permanent Rose - linseed, safflower
Permanent Rose - linseed, safflower
Perylene Black - linseed, safflower
Prussian Blue - linseed
Quinacridone Red - safflower
Raw Sienna - linseed, safflower
Raw Umber (Green Shade) - linseed, safflower
Sap Green - linseed, safflower
Scarlet Lake - linseed, safflower
Titanium White - safflower
Transparent Red Ochre - linseed
Transparent White - safflower
Transparent Yellow - linseed, safflower
Viridian - linseed
Viridian - linseed
Underpainting White (Fast Drying) - linseed
Winsor Blue (Green Shade) - linseed, safflower
Winsor Green - linseed, safflower
Winsor Violet (Dioxazine) - safflower
Winsor Yellow - linseed
Winsor Yellow Deep - linseed, safflower
Yellow Ochre - linseed, safflower

Brian Firth
03-04-2019, 02:54 PM
If the Winsor Newton tubes have the black shield and are not lead tubes then they are probably from the 80's. Generally speaking, If they are lead tubes with a plastic cap they are probably from the 70's and if they are lead with metal caps they are probably from the 60's or earlier.

I spoke with someone at Winsor Newton years ago and they said the same as what what Marc says above, they switched to using safflower oil in the 1960s.

I would note that this is when they were switching from poppy oil to safflower and as far as I know they had previously used poppy oil in some of their colors since the 19th century and the line was never a linseed oil only paint.

For what it's worth, I have only ever had one color liver in the tube and that was tubes of Winsor and Newton Viridian, which is a linseed oil color. I think it is that specific formulation as I had more than one old tube of Winsor Newton viridian do that, while I have old tubes of viridian from other companies that are just fine.

Brian Firth
03-04-2019, 04:41 PM
One more thing on the dates of Winsor Newton tubes with the old black shield label. The switch from plain aluminum tubes with the the plastic caps to the white painted tubes was right at the beginning of the 80's.

Marc Kingsland
03-04-2019, 05:43 PM
For what it's worth, I have only ever had one color liver in the tube and that was tubes of Winsor and Newton Viridian, which is a linseed oil color. I think it is that specific formulation as I had more than one old tube of Winsor Newton viridian do that, while I have old tubes of viridian from other companies that are just fine.

I wonder if it's the addition of metalic driers to slower drying paint colours which might make them more susceptible to livering. As it turns out, I've never had a case since.

Michael Lion
03-10-2019, 09:54 PM
Although Brian Firth already said this, it's worth pointing out again, Winsor & Newton has been using poppyseed oil for light colors since the 1800s. This is not some new fangled invention.

They presumably switched to safflower from poppyseed not only because the former is less expensive, but also because it's believed to make a better paint film than poppyseed oil.