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rickerw
02-25-2019, 10:31 PM
I am in Indonesia where the expensive oils paints are not available. I can get Pebeo XL and Winton. I would like to know peoples' opinions of these. Which is better. And I would be happy to hear of other paints in that price range that might be good or even better. Thanks

JCannon
02-26-2019, 01:16 AM
Winton is a good student paint. I had a bad experience with Winton many years ago, and thus offered a few cutting remarks about the line in older posts. But more recently, I've been impressed.

Frankly, any competent artist should be able to make a fine painting with Winton. And an artist who is not yet competent will want to gain experience using an inexpensive paint.

Richard P
02-26-2019, 04:29 AM
Here in the UK it's cheaper to buy online (even with shipping costs) than it is to buy paints at shops. Have you looked at that so you can have more choice?

JCannon
02-26-2019, 05:51 AM
Also, I read that Indonesia and Australia have signed a free trade deal, so you may soon have easy access to Australian products. You can't do better than Langridge, the Australian paint maker. That stuff is NOT cheap, but if you can afford the best, go for it.

A long time ago, a Wetcanvas contributor named Gunzorro (no longer active here, but he commanded much respect) had good things to say about another Australian paint-maker, Art Spectrum, whose oils are probably cheaper than those offered by Langridge. They also have a student line.

Are there many oil painters in Indonesia? Just now I Googled "Indonesia oil painting" and came across this work (http://www.art-xy.com/2011/07/uob-poy-2011.html), which I really like.

Kelvin
02-26-2019, 09:39 AM
It looks like Van Gogh by Royal Talens may be available there. It's inexpensive and better than student grade.

contumacious
02-26-2019, 10:12 AM
I have been happy with most of the paint offered in the Daler-Rowney Georgian Oil Colors if you can get them. If you buy them in the 225ml tubes they are dirt cheap (5 cents or less / milliliter). Just don't expect their "hues" to handle like single pigment colors. Gamblin 1980's in some pigments are 6 cents / ml in the 150 ml tubes. Their Cads in the 1980 line are twice that, but worth it if you need them. The Gamblin Artists level Cads are 32 cents / ml in the 150s. The pigments are the same, there is just less pigment in there in the 1980s.

AnnieA
02-26-2019, 10:50 AM
I used Gamblin 1980 paints, their student line, for quite a while and they're especially good because, as contumacious mentioned, in most cases they use the same pigment as their artist grade. The advantage to this is that you develop an understanding of paint mixing, especially using cadmiums, that you wouldn't get using other student lines that use a mixture of other pigments to approximate the hue (and sometimes handling characteristics) of more expensive pigments and generally (although not always) are called "hue" on the label. But many people are moving away from the use of cadmiums anyway, so that may not be an issue.

The other student line that I particularly liked was W&N Winton. They are a little thicker than other student lines which I happen to like, although it may be one of the many personal preferences in oil painting that differ so much from painter to painter. I've never used them, but I've also heard good things about Utrecht's "Studio" line of student grade paint and also Sennelier's "Etude" student grade.

Here's the list of the student grade paints offered by Blick, a major art supplier in the U.S., along with some general info about student grade paints:

Blick Studio Oil Colors
Daler-Rowney Georgian Oil Colors
Daler-Rowney Graduate Oil Colors
Gamblin 1980 Oil Colors
Grumbacher Academy Oil Colors
Maimeri Classico Oil Colors
Maimeri Italian Natural Earth Oil Colors
Pebeo XL Studio Oil Colors
Reeves Oil Colors
Sennelier Etude Art Student Oil Colors
Utrecht Studio Series Oils
Van Gogh Oil Colors
Winsor & Newton Winton Oil Colors
Student Oil Colors have working characteristics similar to professional oils, but with lower pigment concentrations and a smaller range of colors typically only one series. Student oils often have pigment mixes instead of single pigments, and more expensive pigments are generally replicated by hues, which may not have the same mixing characteristics as full-strength colors.
(You may not be able to obtain art materials from Blick in Indonesia, but I offered their list as an example of the major student grade paints available.)

Of those, I'd say that most are fine to use when you're first starting out with the exception of some of the Blick student line and Reeves. And I don't know anything about Maimeri's student line. I never used their oils, which aren't available in the U.S., but when I worked in pastels, I found Art Spectrum (an Australian brand mentioned above) to be very good, with a really interesting palette of colors.

Also, Amazon may ship internationally to Indonesia. See this: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=art+supplies+oil+paint&bbn=230659011&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

RomanB
02-26-2019, 02:44 PM
Of course the cheapest and the best is the paint which is manually made by you from drying oils and raw pigments.

rickerw
02-27-2019, 08:08 AM
Well I appreciate all the great information you all provided. I can get Pebeo which I have learned to like. Also Classico is available here and Winton both of which are ok. When I was in the states I used Williamsburg so it has not been easy to get used to seeing the pigment not being there when some medium is added. I have become a expert at cheap paint but learned about some good new ones to try from this thread. And it is not exactly consistent through all the colors of one brand I have found. I have a little bit of rose color from Royal Talens made in China, very cheap, which is one of the strongest colors I have including Williamsburg and Gamblin. Go figure. The other part of this is that we learn how to adapt to what we have and still get a fine result. One of the most successful painters in Indonesia, someone I know, a Dutchman, has sold over 3000 paintings, good, colorful ones. He uses Winton. Thank you all. Ricker
rickerwinsor.com

rickerw
02-27-2019, 08:10 AM
Also very intriguing idea to look for pigments and make ones own paint. And, referring to art here by Indonesian artists, they are are very skillful especially with figurative work. Lot of talent, mostly undiscovered...

Gigalot
02-27-2019, 10:28 AM
You can try China Siic Maries Artists" oil paint. 40 ml tubes are for pros.

Raffless
02-27-2019, 12:46 PM
Well I appreciate all the great information you all provided. I can get Pebeo which I have learned to like. Also Classico is available here and Winton both of which are ok. When I was in the states I used Williamsburg so it has not been easy to get used to seeing the pigment not being there when some medium is added. I have become a expert at cheap paint but learned about some good new ones to try from this thread. And it is not exactly consistent through all the colors of one brand I have found. I have a little bit of rose color from Royal Talens made in China, very cheap, which is one of the strongest colors I have including Williamsburg and Gamblin. Go figure. The other part of this is that we learn how to adapt to what we have and still get a fine result. One of the most successful painters in Indonesia, someone I know, a Dutchman, has sold over 3000 paintings, good, colorful ones. He uses Winton. Thank you all. Ricker
rickerwinsor.com

Winton are really good. No reason why you cant be successful professionally using just Winton.

Red 9
02-27-2019, 01:38 PM
Van Gogh or Winton get my vote. They are pretty much neck and neck, so just depends what line has the color/pigment you need. Van Gogh does offer a Titanium White bound in linseed, which I find useful.

serpentixus
02-28-2019, 05:10 AM
You can get a long way by combining the three ranges of Van Gogh, Winton and Maimeri Classico.
Look for the pigments they use too make the best choice and combine these three manufactors.
I like Classico for their consistence but some tubes have poor pigments of combinations of too many pigments. I like the permanent alizarin PR177 of Winton and their PY74.
I like the cads of Van Gogh for their price and brightness but have sometimes problems with oil that separates from the pigments. (not enough fillers of stabilizers?)

bokaba
03-01-2019, 12:27 AM
I like the Jackson's brand artist oils, they appear highly pigmented to me compared to most student grades. I also would give the Michael Harding series 1 and 2 paints a try (bargain price for premium grade). A 60ml can be had for $10-$15.

Luis Sanchez
03-11-2019, 06:24 PM
Well, hard to tell what brands are locally available to you. From the stuff you mention, is Pebeo the XL or the Fragonard line? I use the XL every now and then but be aware that it has some impermanent pigments. For example, there's PY1, PY34, PR83 etc...

Other than that Van Gogh, Winton and Maimeri Classico is what most professionals use here as taxes make the other "pro" stuff prohibitively pricey. As in REALLY pricey, a tube of W&N cobalt violet costs more than a week of minimum wage work. My point is, you can perform at really professional level with such brands. I have seen exhibitions by pros using those materials and the results are excellent. The only real issue to look out is the famous "hues". They are not bad pigments at all, but they just don't behave as the real thing which can be quite noticeable if you need a covering yellow/red/orange to replace cadmium. In the case of Winton, I believe they sell real cadmium paint in the US (but not here) while Maimeri Classico and Van Gogh offer cadmiums/cobalts as "series 2" paints.

Finally, is Schmicke Akademie available there? That stuff is seriously good. I am not sure if most people could tell it apart from pro paint, which it mostly is, it just lacks real cadmiums/cobalts. But it is well pigmented, well formulated, mixes beautifully and every single pigment used has good lightfastness. The best? Per ml it is cheaper than Winton and Van Gogh. Just add some cadmiums from the other lines.