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lt_scout
01-28-2019, 12:21 PM
Curious how many oil painters are using:
acrylic gesso, oil painting ground, or something else?

I have tried household Zinser Oil Primer from Home Depot, It's a pleasant ground to paint on but It's not archival and it stinks up the studio.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2019/653872-IMG_0079.jpeg

MarkMark
01-28-2019, 12:30 PM
I have used RSG followed by an oil based primer.

THese days I buy my canvases direct and good to go. Otherwise I use an acrylic primer

For the paintings on masonite I use a clear acrylic gesso

Richard P
01-28-2019, 12:41 PM
Clear acrylic gesso

KEVIN$
01-28-2019, 01:24 PM
I buy primed canvases then two coats of gesso in the appropriate color I want to work with.

ks

contumacious
01-28-2019, 03:12 PM
I think the Zinsser is fine as a first coat on panels. Just put something else on top of it that has archival pigments in it like oil ground or acrylic gesso.

I start every panel prep with XIM UMA bonder primer, followed with an oil or acrylic ground. The XIM I find is easier to work with than the Zinsser plus I get better bonding to metal ACM panels with it than any other material I have tried. It is ready to apply your ground to in 24 hours. It can be sprayed, rolled or brushed on and is self leveling which makes smooth surfaces easier to accomplish with no sanding of the primer required, especially if sprayed on.

I do like clear gesso on linen so that the color and the weave show through easily. Tri-Art brand is the most transparent I have found.

Delofasht
01-28-2019, 03:14 PM
I have been using hide glue or Casein primed panels then putting a layer of oil priming on that. Usually do not even bother with the oil priming for studies or personal work though.

anth_knight
01-28-2019, 03:30 PM
White acrylic gesso for me.

HalVik
01-28-2019, 04:29 PM
Oil ground is much smoother and nicer to paint on than acrylic gesso. I've even used it on ready made acrylic gesso canvases.

I also have Williamsburg Lead Oil Ground, but I'm a bit afraid of the lead. However lead can't penetrate healthy skin so it should be okay with caution.

I've now been trying W&N Alkyd Oil Painting Primer on an MDF hardboard. It became so incredibly even and glossy as if sprayed, that I asked W&N if it should be sanded before painting. (I sand the MDF before applying the ground, and size it with PVA.) They told me that there was no need to sand this W&N Alkyd Oil Painting Primer. This seems to be okay, but somehow it looks like a plastic film lying loosely on the MDF. I hope I'm wrong.
________________
Hal

Michaelshane
01-28-2019, 05:25 PM
Rabbit skin glue then lead oil paint(white).

Keith Russell
01-28-2019, 09:56 PM
Gamblin Traditional Gesso (it's for panels only, and I use it on the larger panels I make myself), or whatever they put on Ampersand GessoBord (I use GessoBord for smaller pieces).

For canvas, Liquitex Gesso.

AllisonR
01-29-2019, 05:14 AM
I've used pre-made acrylic ground, oil ground, lead ground... and for studies just cheap canvas sheets on a pad, or scraps of canvas unstretched. I've even tried oil ground on top of an acrylic ground, mostly to see if it would reduce sink-in. I'm fine with most surfaces, but one I have had problems with is Goldens acrylic gesso. It is too absorbent for me, it just soaks so much oil out of the paint layers that sink-in is extreme.
At the moment, using up a roll of claessens, I think it is claessens 66 oil primed but I don't remember.

Rabbit skin glue then lead oil paint(white).

I've done this once, but it took up such an extreme amount of lead to properly cover the surface that I can't afford it. So I save my lead for the actual paint layers.

Michaelshane
01-29-2019, 05:56 AM
You can buy the lead paint in pint cans,thin it with linseed oil.It will cover many canvases and wood panels.

MarkMark
01-29-2019, 07:19 AM
Clear acrylic gesso

Yep it is a clear gesso, great to work with and it leaved the natural colour of th masonite showing which I like as a pre toned ground to build the painting from

Richard P
01-29-2019, 09:46 AM
You misunderstood.. I use it too! :)

Bigfoot
01-30-2019, 12:04 PM
[QUOTE=contumacious]I start every panel prep with XIM UMA bonder primer, followed with an oil or acrylic ground.

contumacious,
Is there a reason you don't/shouldn't paint directly on the XIM? Does the ground you mention make a better painting surface than the XIM?

I have some Kilz cover stain, oil base, that we used for painting ceilings in our house. After seeing a You-Tube video by Trent Gudmundsen on preparing panels with Zinsser cover stain (same as Kilz from my understanding, just a different company) I tried in on a few panels instead of gesso (acrylic ground) and painted directly on it. Aside from the initial oil block being a little slippery the next layers adhere nicely and the surface is very nice to paint on. I think it would be very similar, if not identical, to the Zinnser. My experience with gesso on panels is similar (in being slippery), although I'm sure there are differences in different brands of gesso. I was thinking of adding calcium carbonate to the Kilz (like Trent does in the video), to give a little texture. Maybe there is an archival issue between the two but, from my painting experience, there isn't much difference. In fact, I find it much easier (and much cheaper) to prepare panels and achieve a smooth surface as compared to using gesso.

Maybe using Kilz is a mistake, so I'm open to criticism/correction!

contumacious
01-30-2019, 01:54 PM
[QUOTE=contumacious]I start every panel prep with XIM UMA bonder primer, followed with an oil or acrylic ground.

contumacious,
Is there a reason you don't/shouldn't paint directly on the XIM? Does the ground you mention make a better painting surface than the XIM?

I have painted directly on the XIM. It is a very nice surface as is, similar to an oil ground but a bit more absorbent. It has a nice off white tone. I bought it for three main reasons, the incredibly strong bonding to the Dibond / ACM panels, coated or raw, water cleanup and how easy it is to make it super smooth by spraying it on. Rolling also produces a much flatter surface than acrylic gesso as long as you don't keep rolling it too long. I don't know if the color of the XIM will change over time. A call to Rustoleum would answer that. I will likely continue to paint directly on it from time to time when I want a super flat, non absorbent surface. Often I like to give it a final ground that has some texture to it and sometimes a color toning. I seem to recall that you can tint the XIM with water based tinting pigments from the paint store if you wanted a toned ground that can be applied in one step.

I have some Kilz cover stain, oil base, that we used for painting ceilings in our house. After seeing a You-Tube video by Trent Gudmundsen on preparing panels with Zinsser cover stain (same as Kilz from my understanding, just a different company) I tried in on a few panels instead of gesso (acrylic ground) and painted directly on it. Aside from the initial oil block being a little slippery the next layers adhere nicely and the surface is very nice to paint on. I think it would be very similar, if not identical, to the Zinnser. My experience with gesso on panels is similar (in being slippery), although I'm sure there are differences in different brands of gesso. I was thinking of adding calcium carbonate to the Kilz (like Trent does in the video), to give a little texture. Maybe there is an archival issue between the two but, from my painting experience, there isn't much difference. In fact, I find it much easier (and much cheaper) to prepare panels and achieve a smooth surface as compared to using gesso.

Maybe using Kilz is a mistake, so I'm open to criticism/correction!

I don't think you will have any problems with Kilz or Zinsser primers. I have used both of them and lots of other people do as well. Adding some Calcium Carbonate will definitely make it more absorbent. I too have noticed a wide range of absorbency with various brands / type of acrylic gesso. You can add bulk acrylic medium to those that are too absorbent, but I find it easier to just seal it with matte acrylic medium once dried.

Bigfoot
01-30-2019, 02:49 PM
Having a heck of a time trying to locate any Calcium carbonate. Any suggestions on where to find this?

Delofasht
01-30-2019, 04:50 PM
Having a heck of a time trying to locate any Calcium carbonate. Any suggestions on where to find this?

Pigment vendors carry it, but Blick has it from Fredrix as Powdered Marble Dust for $9 for a 4lb bag. The particle size is extremely fine, it gets airborne pretty easily, so I suggest wear a dust mask while using it (or do it outside, or have good ventilation away from you).

There are plenty of other sources for calcium carbonate as well, it's everything we call chalk, limestone, or ground seashells. It is rarely just marketed as calcium carbonate, but it's all the same stuff, slightly different arrangement and hardnesses, finer or more coarsely ground, usual variance. Fredrix's is extremely consistent and affordable, hard to get a better price on such a versatile product.

Edit: Just noticed you are in Canada, you can pick up Calcium Carbonate from Kama Pigments, they are based in Canada, so shipping may end up being cheaper through them than getting something from Blick shipped to Canada. Price for 4lbs from them for about the same quality is $14.55 right now (looking at the page at the moment).

Dcam
01-30-2019, 05:04 PM
I got a big bag from Jerry's Artarama. YES....it is called marble dust.

contumacious
01-30-2019, 06:11 PM
Paint stores call it "Whiting". Some Garden / Nursery shops stock it in large bags for conditioning soil. It might be called "Garden Lime". Make sure it is labeled Calcium Carbonate on the contents. There are other types of lime that you do not want to put in your paints.

RomanB
01-31-2019, 12:46 AM
Traditional gesso made of rabbit skin glue and local chalk, lead white oil paint over it.

WFMartin
02-02-2019, 10:03 AM
For stretched canvas, I usually buy acrylic-primed canvas, and then I apply several more coats of Grumbacher 525 Acrylic Gesso, thinned to the consistency of cream with water, and applied with a sash brush.

Lately, I've been using RayMar Linen, and canvas panels, which I prefer over stretched canvas. I get RayMar Oil primed Linen, and Acrylic primed cotton canvas panels. I don't add any further coats of anything to these panels, and I paint my image directly on these panels.

Gigalot
02-03-2019, 11:26 AM
I use a very flexible self-made acrylic primer.