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Batman55
12-25-2018, 11:36 PM
I recently experimented with drawing a simple pen-and-ink design on Yupo paper--the transparent kind.

I'm going to say--in theory--this kind of paper would be ideal. There is no smoother surface available. I'm also addicted to drawing on glossy surfaces, lol--there is something highly satisfying about it. Most black inks stand out starkly against the super-white plastic backdrop. When you use colored inks, you lose none of the brightness or "color" so to speak, it's as vibrant as you can get. For me, these are all ideal qualities. And even better yet--if you use the transparent Yupo paper, as I did, you can actually fill in the backside of the paper with color which shows as a "lighter" shade on the front, you can even "mix" colors in this very novel way.

Now, while you can achieve the effects mentioned above, the actual *process* is much more finicky than I would like. It turns out that Yupo paper is designed for alcohol/solvent inks, which I don't use (invariably, these inks fade, and fast.) Detailed work with pigment inks--my chosen method--is difficult because, first, you can smudge the inks with just the lightest accidental touch and it's hard to remove that. Compounding the issue is the fact that pigment inks dry very slowly on this substrate. I have also found, some of my favorite pens don't even work at all on this surface--gel pens generally skip like mad. (It's not such a big deal though, as I can get Microns and others to work properly.)

I guess the question is, are there any other specific kinds of glossy paper, or any other "super-smooth" drawing surface, I could look for? Any that might have fewer disadvantages? It might be that I could still employ Yupo paper, just requires more work and planning... but if there's anything else out there, do tell! I have heard of other plastic papers being used for pen and ink--apparently there is acetate, mylar, etc. Has anyone experimented with those? Would love to hear any feedback, thanks

RoadLessTaken
12-26-2018, 01:46 PM
I still have some Yupo. It IS a very satisfying surface to draw on but, like you, I dislike how my inks smudge and generally "move". (I think it's Sharpies that stay still but Sharpies are not my favorite "ink".)



I've also been hoping for a alternative to Yupo and hoping someone has a response for you.


The other night I watched a video on gold gilding and I have some a friend gave me. I'm going to give that a try to find out what kind of effects that will give. Unlike most of my surfaces, the gold gilding is going to take some prep work and I need to gather my time and materials to make some up.


Thanks for bringing this up!


Sheila

Batman55
12-26-2018, 11:33 PM
I still have some Yupo. It IS a very satisfying surface to draw on but, like you, I dislike how my inks smudge and generally "move". (I think it's Sharpies that stay still but Sharpies are not my favorite "ink".)



I've also been hoping for a alternative to Yupo and hoping someone has a response for you.


Believe it or not, just last night I was experimenting with some glossy photo paper I had lying around. The inks dry much faster on this stuff, the brightness/luminosity is the same, and it accepts gel pens normally. Smudges are almost nonexistent! The one disadvantage with the photo paper is you cannot use pencil lead at all, and if you try to erase the paper gets damaged.

The one advantage Yupo has here is, it seems you can use pencil and erase, while there will be a slight mark left behind, it's only visible at certain angles.

I would like to investigate this a whole lot more. There are tons of different gloss/photo papers out there, it's just very hard to find information about drawing on them!

tiago.dagostini
12-27-2018, 05:24 AM
Well Yupo is not available in South America so I have no clue how that behaves....

pedlars pen
12-27-2018, 11:27 AM
Sometimes I use printer paper intended for glossy brochures it is acid free & completely non bleeding, pen dries fast enough too , BUT having recommended it in the past I know you can't get it in the US. :crying: I'll bet you can find something very similar though.
:wink2: Generally speaking if you are investigating papers for pens then the calligraphy folk have tried most of them ,inkjet & copy papers etc. - that can shorten your search & save you money too !
Somehow I seriously doubt that a glossy paper will ever be able to take pencil though , pencil needs some tooth to work .
Mike

blackandwhite
12-29-2018, 02:14 PM
Bristol board (or paper) is usually pretty smooth and works wonderfully with inks. It is very similar to uncoated glossy printer papers. There are numerous manufacturers for bristol paper.

pedlars pen
12-29-2018, 07:31 PM
Bristol board (or paper) is usually pretty smooth and works wonderfully with inks. It is very similar to uncoated glossy printer papers. There are numerous manufacturers for bristol paper.

No ! that is not quite the full story, Bristol board is THE paper to use with pens , especially a dip pen because it is the hardest surface totally resistant to digging in & the resultant splutter.
It gives the finest line regardless of the type of pen AND will take a light to medium wash no problem.
It has been used almost universally for pen & ink since it's invention in the mid 1800's - it has never been bettered.
It should be (& always has been) a smooth finish , the dimpled finish was introduced to give a bit of key for graphite pencil users & is a mere distraction for pen users.
Bristol board reigns supreme ! except in cost :crying: . That is the only reason why some pen folk might choose not to use it.
It'll take a pencil line better than any glossy printer paper, you can erase pencil (with a putty or plastic eraser as much as you want , you can even erase pen lines ! you can shape them in the most subtle manner after drawing them.
Glossy paper does not take a wash , it is softer & only performs OK. with fountain pens or felt tip type & fine liner pens.It is hard or impossible to use pencil on & impossible to erase pencil or ink from. If you use a dip pen draw fast & with out pressure !

Now I do use glossy paper for sketching on but when I get serious Bristol board reigns supreme as the best & only option.

Now if you use watercolours with your pen lines you might ? choose to prioritise them in which case you will use HP.watercolour paper but only in the knowledge that the pen has been compromised .
Mike

Batman55
12-29-2018, 10:44 PM
It's really not about cost-saving for me. See my original post for why I'm interested in this.

True, bristol board is the best and most versatile for pens, but I haven't found any that have a finish similar to the smoothest inkjet papers, let alone glossy photo paper. Borden & Riley paper comes close, but still, no cigar.

Rather I like the glossy papers for the unparalleled vibrancy of color, as I occasionally like to use colored inks. (I don't use washes, so that doesn't matter to me.) If you compare the color brightness on any kind of real paper vs. glossy, hands down, you get the boldest color on the latter. Then there is also the feel, and the smoothness of line. After this, there are also unique effects you can achieve on this stuff, that you cannot on anything else. :thumbsup:

laika
12-30-2018, 12:30 AM
I guess the question is, are there any other specific kinds of glossy paper, or any other "super-smooth" drawing surface, I could look for? Any that might have fewer disadvantages? It might be that I could still employ Yupo paper, just requires more work and planning... but if there's anything else out there, do tell! I have heard of other plastic papers being used for pen and ink--apparently there is acetate, mylar, etc. Has anyone experimented with those? Would love to hear any feedback, thanks

I have drawn on frosted mylar in years past. It's an interesting material: a little toothy, but also translucent as far as coloring on the backside. I can't recall the speed of drying. I'm also curious what Tyvek would be like to draw on.

blackandwhite
12-30-2018, 05:38 AM
This sounds that the bristol paper will require gelatin sizing to make the surface glossy. There are some discussions in the internet by folks coating normal copy paper with gelatin sizing to make it work like 'real' glossy inkjet papers. The results can be quite good.

pedlars pen
12-30-2018, 01:59 PM
It's really not about cost-saving for me. See my original post for why I'm interested in this.

True, bristol board is the best and most versatile for pens, but I haven't found any that have a finish similar to the smoothest inkjet papers, let alone glossy photo paper. Borden & Riley paper comes close, but still, no cigar.

Rather I like the glossy papers for the unparalleled vibrancy of color, as I occasionally like to use colored inks. (I don't use washes, so that doesn't matter to me.) If you compare the color brightness on any kind of real paper vs. glossy, hands down, you get the boldest color on the latter. Then there is also the feel, and the smoothness of line. After this, there are also unique effects you can achieve on this stuff, that you cannot on anything else. :thumbsup:

Yes I understood your dilemma & am unfortunately unable to help , you'll note my reply started with the quote from Black & whites' post claiming that Bristol board is very similar to uncoated glossy printer papers.
I just felt the need to list a few of the multitude of benefits it holds for a pen & ink man.
Any P&I. neophyte stumbling across this statement might consider it as a equal alternative to Bristol board :eek: ! - I just wanted to spell out clearly to them (any beginners) that it is not & some of the reasons.
Good fortune on your search Batman,
Mike

PS. have you tried different grades of pencil lead &/or a putty eraser ( the least damaging) , it seems a great shame to reject an otherwise interesting surface because you can't erase on it.