PDA

View Full Version : Hand lettering wish


Macarona
12-12-2018, 07:07 PM
Hello,

I need help because I am supposed to put together a hand lettering set for my sister.
Because she would like to start with it and it's her wish for Christmas.

My sister wants different black pens that are water resistant and colored brush pens that are water-soluble.
And a book to practice.

I thought that I buy a few different black pens and many colorful brush pens.
And also a book about it.
I'm sure of the black pens, but the colorful pencils worry me :confused:.
She has already bought two Tombow brush pens and two talens Ecoline pens and she likes them.
The manufacturers are not important as long as the pens are good.

I asked her if more colored brush pens or less pens but higher quality.
Then came the counter question: whether ecolines and Tombows Brush pens are not high quality?
Well my question was more general.
I will clarify that tomorrow.

My experience with brush pens is almost limited to the Pitt Artist Pens, but they are waterproof.
My pictures I've seen on the wall for years now look like they've just been drawn.
In contrast to the Pentel Color Brushes, my pictures have not even lasted a few weeks on the wall and then are very faded.
I lend the pencils to my other sister.

My sister liked to put her pictures / writings on the walls throughout rooms in her House
I do not want her to be disappointed with the brush pens in a few months because her pictures are faded.

Can you please suggest brush pens that are water-soluble and fade-resistant?
I'll talk to my second sister about that tomorrow.
By the way, I have three sisters.
Thanks in advance

RoadLessTaken
12-12-2018, 11:45 PM
I'm not sure how different things are in the EU than in the US. My suggestion would be to buy your sister gift cards from several different supply shops and take her out for an afternoon to pick her own pens! She'll have the opportunity to chat with the pros and learn about options she never knew existed!

But make sure there is something under the tree that morning! Perhaps a Mixed Media Pad with several different inks and a digital subscription to a artists' magazine.

Have happy holiday!
Sheila

pedlars pen
12-13-2018, 05:53 AM
Unfortunately that question is too big an ask !
I mean yes the Tombows are nice to use but they do fade. The Kuretake No.10 Tegami Fude Letter Pen is OK. but again the ink is dye based - so they do fade too.
The Talens Eco line are likewise are very nice to use but the colour will fade (& they fade fast !).
The problem is that the coloured brush pens use dye based ink colours which are vibrant & handle well BUT are not permanent (can be very impermanent !). Whereas pigment colours are poor handling & lack vibrancy but are permanent .
If you will bite the bullet & accept the lack of permanency the Talens Eco line are the gold standard & almost universally accepted as being the best in use & yet unfortunately they are not very lightfast at all.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but - You cannot have your cake & eat it !
There is no way around this problem I'm afraid ....... Well you could use watercolour paint & a standard brush but that is maybe not what you want to do. If you want to hang them on the wall,then a compromise must be made.
Mike

tiago.dagostini
12-13-2018, 07:07 AM
In general all the brush pens that are not technical pens will fade.

The only way I found to have non black brush pens with good resilience to light is to fill them with fountain pen ink. Fountain pen ink is usually the highest lightfast rating you can fink on ink that will work on a brush pen (At least the good brands). That said you will NOT find all colors available.

Watercolor as pedlars have said is another option.

katwalk
12-15-2018, 03:21 PM
If the pen uses alcohol inks then they are going to fade fairly quickly. They were designed for graphic designers who create art work that is meant to be photographed or scanned for use in other media (print, web etc) They don't care how long the colors last as the artwork is meant for immediate use.

Fact of life, all color fades, some media tend to use colors (pigments) that fade more quickly, watercolor used to be very bad (esp some colors) but with the new pigments colors are more fade proof. But you have to be aware of what you are buying.

If she wants to put her drawings on the wall I suggest she use a different colored medium with her black pens, some watercolors are quite fade proof, inks not so much except for some of the Acrylic inks. There are also colored pencils, but you need to be careful of brand and colors.

Color is fun but I suggest she learn how to use black ink first Course if she just wants to scan everything she creates she can use anything she wants. :)

RoadLessTaken
12-15-2018, 03:35 PM
Interesting regarding alcohol pens. I've thought they were better than the others but maybe it's just that they are better for me?


Be it what may but I've found the most resilient inks are Sharpies. However, the color options leave a lot to be desired!



And my best source for finding the most durable paints and markers has got to be graffiti artists! We have an awesome Mural Arts project in the city and they often will use graffiti artists (often doing community service for their infractions!) and their mediums to create the longest lasting outdoor murals.


Sheila

pedlars pen
12-15-2018, 07:40 PM
If the pen uses alcohol inks then they are going to fade fairly quickly. They were designed for graphic designers who create art work that is meant to be photographed or scanned for use in other media (print, web etc) They don't care how long the colors last as the artwork is meant for immediate use.

Fact of life, all color fades, some media tend to use colors (pigments) that fade more quickly, watercolor used to be very bad (esp some colors) but with the new pigments colors are more fade proof. But you have to be aware of what you are buying.


Sorry Kathy but I'm afraid you have your wires a little crossed a bit there http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif.
Pigments are very finely ground umm.... well pigment! Like it may be an earth colour like soil in this case or metamorphic rock like Lapis lazuli or cobalt blue again a mineral etc.etc,, which will take a very large exposure to light without fading at all.
We're talking about many centuries here as is proven by renaissance painting backward !

The other main option in colour (the only option in inks for pens) is dye based ink.
Dye based ink is impermanent ,in the case of the very brush pens I recommended the manufacturer advises you to use then in a sketch book & keep them out of the light :eek:.
So why use dye based ink at all ? well basically -
1.It is a very expensive & highly technical process to grind pigment to a microscopic size that will not clog up a fountain pen or brush pen. Just look at the price difference between pigment ink & normal pen ink.
2. When you are talking real colour outside of black, dye inks still give a much more vibrant colour than pigment inks do , even disregarding the cost of production.

Alcohol based inks such as most fine liners like the Micron, Unipin etc. etc. DO use very finely ground pigment ink suspended in the alcohol so in fact are permanent .Yet have you ever bought one of the colour pens they offer ?
Dull & lack lustre colours I'm afraid, people rarely bother with them.
You are right about using a different medium with the pen outside of black though !
Mike.

tiago.dagostini
12-18-2018, 03:30 AM
In fact there are some PIGMENTS that are not very lightfast... as there are inks that are light fast. UV light breaks links in long carbon chains more easily than in smaller molecules. A simple example are the organic purple pigments used for childreen colored pencils.. they break extremely easy under UV and they are pigments.

On the other hand you can make Dyes that last long, but you woudl need to use materials that are so toxic that it becomes impossible (inks are MUCH MUCH more problematic than pigments toxicity wise because they can get trough our skin)

blackandwhite
12-18-2018, 03:41 PM
In fact there are some PIGMENTS that are not very lightfast... as there are inks that are light fast. UV light breaks links in long carbon chains more easily than in smaller molecules. A simple example are the organic purple pigments used for childreen colored pencils.. they break extremely easy under UV and they are pigments.

On the other hand you can make Dyes that last long, but you woudl need to use materials that are so toxic that it becomes impossible (inks are MUCH MUCH more problematic than pigments toxicity wise because they can get trough our skin)

If you would replace "ink" with "dye" in the above text, then it would be more correct. Ink can contain both dye or pigment colorant. Dye based inks have practically always very poor lightfastness. Some dyes are better, for example, the dyes used in archival quality ballpoint pens, but even the best dye inks are often worse than the worst pigment inks.

tiago.dagostini
12-19-2018, 06:21 AM
If you would replace "ink" with "dye" in the above text, then it would be more correct. Ink can contain both dye or pigment colorant. Dye based inks have practically always very poor lightfastness. Some dyes are better, for example, the dyes used in archival quality ballpoint pens, but even the best dye inks are often worse than the worst pigment inks.



yes true.. in portuguese there is only one word for and the direct translation usually used is ink.. so I tend to make this little mistake often.