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DickHutchings
12-10-2018, 01:34 PM
There's only one way to know so I ordered this. Some of you told me Liquin is bad and I happen to like it and don't smell a thing while I'm using it. I'm sure some will ask why bother with this.

1. I like trying new things
2. It washes out of clothing, I don't always change out of my good clothes
3. Some artist on this forum get great result and like them
4. Water cleanup is a nice to have, not really important since I don't wash my brushes now.
5. ??

861555

sidbledsoe
12-11-2018, 11:11 PM
Some of you told me Liquin is bad and I happen to like it and don't smell a thing while I'm using it.

It isn't the Liquin that is bad, it is the advice.

AnnieA
12-12-2018, 05:42 AM
Dick, I don't know about the Liquin issues you mention. I don't like it personally but I think it's like so many things with oil painting - everyone has different preferences, irritants, needs and, of course, opinions. That's why our discussions here in the Technical forum are so much fun. :lol:

But I wanted to say congrats on your purchase: I have only one tube of Holbein Duo paint - Ceramic White - but I like it a lot. Did you know you can use those with regular oil paints? I guess there's some percentage (20%?) limit of how much of the WMOs can be added to regular oils before they lose their water miscibility, but I often use the Ceramic White as if it was regular oil paint.

Gigalot
12-12-2018, 06:27 AM
I guess there's some percentage (20%?) limit of how much of the WMOs to regular oils before they lose their water miscibility
Yep! Add more dish washing liquid to water to clean brushes. :lol:

Dcam
12-12-2018, 09:08 AM
I've tried a few brands of Water Mix oils and Holbein Aqua Duo is best. You get what you pay for.

DickHutchings
12-12-2018, 09:13 AM
And that's why I bought it. Seems to be the most hyped WS on WC.

DickHutchings
12-15-2018, 07:04 AM
And I hate it. All the brush washing I was avoiding with regular oils I'm now doing. I didn't purchase the thinner thinking I could try with water first. No no no. I added some walnut oil and it was ok but I needed to double clean now, once in oms and then the sink. But it did paint ok with the medium added. I just don't see the point.

If anyone has some regular oil paint they would like to swap with me I'd be happy to box it up and send it to someone who appreciates it.

sidbledsoe
12-15-2018, 07:56 AM
Dick, Here is the swap shop (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=83) on WC.

WFMartin
12-17-2018, 04:07 PM
I would suggest that you be cautious when attempting to varnish an oil painting that has been painted with WMO's. I'm not speaking from any sort of experience, but I've been informed that WMO's do not accept a final varnish in the usual manner.

Just a heads up.:angel:

DickHutchings
12-17-2018, 04:15 PM
That layer is now buried under regular oil paint. If I can't find someone that wants them I'll be incorporating them into my regular oils rather than waste them. I hate to waste these specialized paints that way. Thanks for the heads up.

sidbledsoe
12-17-2018, 09:11 PM
Though there was absolutely no question from the poster regarding varnishing, yes you can varnish WMO paintings, it is done every day, all over the world.
I have done it with absolutely no issue whatsoever. Removal of the varnish is just the same as with my regular oils.
There is no report that WMO paints do not accept varnish, I would challenge anyone to produce a reliable source and information regarding this specific claim that was made above.
Quote from Mary from Gamblin:
Gamvar will adhere to WMO paintings.
This myth about a problem with varnishing comes from Gamblin, an otherwise very reliable source of information. Regular oil paint can and does have the exact same issues with varnish that they report, which is possible removal of some paint upon varnish removal. That is it, that is their one and their only claim.
Gamblin is one of the foremost paint companies and they make and sell regular and alkyd mediums and paint, but they do not make and do not sell any WMO paints.
Dick, you may know this already, but it is unfortunate fact that there are some here who will try to discourage all others from using WMO's and alkyds.
There are also companies that try to discourage others from using their competitors materials.
The constant berating of WMO paints resulted in the forum being separated for years, but WMO paint is back here now.

WFMartin
12-18-2018, 12:44 AM
Yes, DickHutchings, I too, would caution against those who seem to be here to discourage others from using WMO paints.

But, as when considering the purchase of a new car, it is often beneficial to read such publications as Consumer Reports, an organization who offers all sorts of advantages, and disadvantages of each product in question.

One needs to consider all sorts of information, whether it seems pleasant, or not, when embarking upon a purchase of a product that one intends to use for ultimate success. In this case, Gamblin has expressed some definite concerns regarding the use of most varnishes on WMO paintings.

As I mentioned, I do not speak on THIS topic from experience--merely comments by Gamblin.

Painters are free to use whatever they wish. This forum is for dispensing information, and yes......even opinions. The goal is to present as many considerations as possible, so that the questioning painter can make his/her own choice. 'Twas not I who claimed the varnishing problem (the problem being the REMOVAL of it) with WMO paint--'twas Gamblin.:)

Raffless
12-18-2018, 10:13 AM
I have used WMO W&N and varnished successfully using high gloss varnish W&N. Whats the problem? I haven't seen anything untoward after many years of them hanging on walls.

DickHutchings
12-18-2018, 10:40 AM
Raffless, have you ever tried to remove your varnish? Possible removal of some paint upon varnish removal seems to be the issue. I could care less about that. I don't expect my paintings to end up in museums.

Raffless
12-18-2018, 02:28 PM
Raffless, have you ever tried to remove your varnish? Possible removal of some paint upon varnish removal seems to be the issue. I could care less about that. I don't expect my paintings to end up in museums.

Oh is that the issue? Haha. If i ever have my paintings sitting next to a Vermeer yes it is an issue :lol:

WFMartin
12-18-2018, 02:33 PM
just to be clear, I have had several occasions in which I had to remove the varnish from my oil painting. In one case, two paintings got face to face in shipping, and stuck together, causing them to "pick" as they were pulled apart.

All I did was remove the varnish from each of them, and then re-varnish.

Just a few weeks ago, I encountered one of my paintings that had some piece of paper pressed against it, so that it stuck to the surface. Again, I removed the varnish, and the offending paper with it, and then I re-varnished it.

There are many occasions for which one may need to remove varnish, and you don't need to consider yourself a conservator to do that. When that occurs, you do not want an excess of paint being lifted when the varnish is removed.

Gamblin merely mentioned that could be a problem with WMO paint. And, again, if such a consideration is not important to your operation, then you are free to ignore such advice.

Raffless
12-18-2018, 02:49 PM
The only time varnish would need to be removed if it ripples with bad application. I cant think of another reason?

DickHutchings
12-18-2018, 02:57 PM
#*&t happens.

Marsjoyofpainting
12-18-2018, 06:42 PM
Gamblin merely mentioned that could be a problem with WMO paint. And, again, if such a consideration is not important to your operation, then you are free to ignore such advice.

Thank you Bill. I'd like to clarify one point. This recommendation from Gamblin is not an attempt to discourage artists from using water-soluble oils as their chosen medium to create artwork. Gamblin technical support staff simply state a cautionary note to artists that removal of Gamvar Picture varnish on WMO artwork should be done with caution, or not at all.

Anyone on this forum can feel free to contact the company if further questions related to Gamvar come up. [email protected] - my email, which we welcome artists to use to contact us. :wave:

sidbledsoe
12-18-2018, 11:23 PM
There are a lot of companies out there who make varnishes and who make WMO paints.
How many companies are there who do not recommend using an OMS removable varnish on WMO paintings, or have cautionary warning, has anyone ever heard this caution from any other than the Gamblin company ?
Winsor Newton, Grumbacher, Holbein, Utrecht, Royal Talens, Lukas, Graham, or any others?

There has been much research into the durability of WMO paint and paintings, I am not aware of any other caution regarding solvent solubility.
Paintings often get cleaned with solvents whether they are varnished or not.
Solvents are applied during the painting process, such as couches, I have never heard of any caution from anyone regarding not using couches when painting with WMO paints.
Are there any research papers or studies that show that WMO paints are prone to solvent lifting?


I have seen a problem removing varnish with OMS, from a traditional oil painting where some of the oil paint was lifted. Should varnish not be used on traditional oil paintings?
Or could there be a weak binding issue inherent to the materials or the technique that was used to apply that oil paint?
I have tested my WMO paintings with OMS and with stronger solvents and have seen no lifting at all. I have also removed varnish from WMO paintings with no problem.

Mary from Gamblin, regarding using Gamvar as the varnish, then do you agree or disagree with this specific claim?
I've been informed that WMO's do not accept a final varnish in the usual manner...Twas not I who claimed the varnishing problem with WMO paint , 'twas Gamblin.
I quoted you earlier saying that your varnish does in fact accept and adhere to WMO paintings, normally and properly, and in the usual manner.

sidbledsoe
12-19-2018, 12:55 AM
But, as when considering the purchase of a new car, it is often beneficial to read such publications as Consumer Reports, an organization who offers all sorts of advantages, and disadvantages of each product in question.

One needs to consider all sorts of information, whether it seems pleasant, or not, when embarking upon a purchase of a product that one intends to use for ultimate success. In this case, Gamblin has expressed some definite concerns regarding the use of most varnishes on WMO paintings.

As I mentioned, I do not speak on THIS topic from experience--merely comments by Gamblin.

Painters are free to use whatever they wish. This forum is for dispensing information, and yes......even opinions. The goal is to present as many considerations as possible, so that the questioning painter can make his/her own choice. 'Twas not I who claimed the varnishing problem (the problem being the REMOVAL of it) with WMO paint--'twas Gamblin.:)
very good advice Bill, as you know Gamblin is one of the foremost makers and suppliers of alkyd paints and alkyd based mediums. Do you have the same belief in, and trust in their alkyd products and in their recommendations concerning the extensive usage of alkyds in oil painting?

Raffless
12-19-2018, 03:52 AM
Thank you Bill. I'd like to clarify one point. This recommendation from Gamblin is not an attempt to discourage artists from using water-soluble oils as their chosen medium to create artwork. Gamblin technical support staff simply state a cautionary note to artists that removal of Gamvar Picture varnish on WMO artwork should be done with caution, or not at all.

Anyone on this forum can feel free to contact the company if further questions related to Gamvar come up. [email protected] - my email, which we welcome artists to use to contact us. :wave:

So your just backing up what i said Mary? Bad application, and it can apply to regular paints as well.

If there is another reason why please say.

Edit. Does this ONLY apply to Gamvar? If so it needs to be stated clearly.

Richard P
12-19-2018, 04:24 AM
I've heard this before too, but I've never quite understood why removing the varnish would affect the paint film of a WMO and not a traditional oil paint.

sidbledsoe
12-19-2018, 08:38 AM
Although this thread had nothing to do with varnishing WMO paintings, you see that it has been hijacked for that purpose.
This myth will not go away here, it has been unleashed with a fury that will permeate and infiltrate many WMO threads here, for many years to come.
Let us then start to research this myth.
Here is a WMO painting I did totally with Lukas WMO paints. It is about 6 years old with no varnish on it. I used OMS to scrub it with, and got no removal of any paint. I then used turpentine, again with no paint removal:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Dec-2018/112587-rsz_dsc_0102.jpg

Next is a painting I did with traditional regular WN and Charvin oil paints.
This painting is about two years old, and not varnished.
I began with scrubbing the surface with only OMS and bam, paint removal, clearly still soluble in only OMS:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Dec-2018/112587-rsz_dsc_0103.jpg
I have done this with more examples than these particular paintings, for each type of oil paint, and have gotten the same results.
Regular traditional oil paint does in fact get lifted sometimes, even with OMS.

This myth will continue to be used as a weapon to disparage and shoot down WMO paints, even in threads like this, not related to varnishing, by non users and detractors of WMO paints, and the ammunition for doing it has been supplied by Gamblin.


I think it would only prudent of Gamblin to rethink this claim, and to not single out WMO paints, and to caution all varnish applications to either not remove the varnish or expect possible paint removal, including traditional oils, even with OMS, and especially with very thin glazes or other weak paint films.

DickHutchings
12-19-2018, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the reality Sid.

Raffless
12-19-2018, 09:38 AM
Although this thread had nothing to do with varnishing WMO paintings, you see that it has been hijacked for that purpose.
This myth will not go away here, it has been unleashed with a fury that will permeate and infiltrate many WMO threads here, for many years to come.
Let us then start to research this myth.
Here is a WMO painting I did totally with Lukas WMO paints. It is about 6 years old with no varnish on it. I used OMS to scrub it with, and got no removal of any paint. I then used turpentine, again with no paint removal:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Dec-2018/112587-rsz_dsc_0102.jpg

Next is a painting I did with traditional regular WN and Charvin oil paints.
This painting is about two years old, and not varnished.
I began with scrubbing the surface with only OMS and bam, paint removal, clearly still soluble in only OMS:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Dec-2018/112587-rsz_dsc_0103.jpg
I have done this with more examples than these particular paintings, for each type of oil paint, and have gotten the same results.
Regular traditional oil paint does in fact get lifted sometimes, even with OMS.

This myth will continue to be used as a weapon to disparage and shoot down WMO paints, even in threads like this, not related to varnishing, by non users and detractors of WMO paints, and the ammunition for doing it has been supplied by Gamblin.


I think it would only prudent of Gamblin to rethink this claim, and to not single out WMO paints, and to caution all varnish applications to either not remove the varnish or expect possible paint removal, including traditional oils, even with OMS, and especially with very thin glazes or other weak paint films.

I think if it is damaging to the sales of WMO they had better do it quick!

Richard P
12-19-2018, 11:05 AM
Thanks for this Sid. In your experience then do older paintings (regardless of whether WMO were used or not) tend not to lift when using OMS or another solvent? I wonder if it's to do with the age of the curing process.

Marsjoyofpainting
12-19-2018, 11:32 AM
Gamvar Picture Varnish will adhere to dry water-miscible oil paintings.

Scott Gellatly, Gamblin Product Manager, reported the test results from 6/29/15 on two different paintings. Both paintings were approximately 1 year old. One painting was completed with a brand of water-miscible oil, the other painting with a traditional oil. When testing the removal of varnish, the color lifted easily on the WMO and left a gummy feel to the surface. The same test repeated on the traditional oil painting had very little to no color lifted and the paint layers stayed hard underneath.

These results are why our technical staff has concerns if Gamvar Picture Varnish can be safely removed from WMO artwork.

Gamblin appreciates the feedback and comments from members of this forum. Please rest assured that further testing of of Gamvar to artwork created with WMO will be conducted and examined. Any other questions related to Gamvar Varnish can be sent to : [email protected] and we welcome you do contact us if anyone has additional comments. :grouphug:

DickHutchings
12-19-2018, 11:39 AM
So it's the Gamvar removal that removes the WMO, not solvents on clean paintings, sans Gamvar. Sid, your test is invalid I think.

Marsjoyofpainting
12-19-2018, 11:40 AM
I think it would only prudent of Gamblin to rethink this claim, and to not single out WMO paints, and to caution all varnish applications to either not remove the varnish or expect possible paint removal, including traditional oils, even with OMS, and especially with very thin glazes or other weak paint films.

Thank you Sid, your comments and feedback are appreciated. Gamblin always cautions artists to carefully test a painting before attempting to remove any brand of varnish, regardless of the type of medium or oil used to complete the artwork. As you've demonstrated, this can be done with OMS and a gentle Q-tip or cotton swab.

I believe this thread has been hi-jacked into an off-topic conversation, so at this time I will cease any commentary.

Raffless
12-19-2018, 11:50 AM
Inconclusive. A single test on two paintings does not validate anything. We've moved on a bit in the last 50 years. I'm thinking this should just go into the unresolved box.

Does Gamblin do WMO? Hmmm.

DickHutchings
12-19-2018, 12:02 PM
They tested one painting and put this out there!!

Raffless
12-19-2018, 12:42 PM
They tested one painting and put this out there!!

I'm shocked too Dick!

Gigalot
12-19-2018, 12:57 PM
I'm shocked too Dick!
They did one test but negative, you did zero tests but positive? :lol: Is anybody here who want to make a varnishing crash test with 80 oil paintings to proof, that WMO is safe to use with Gamvar? I know at least 2-3 guys, who love WMO much to do that! :)

DickHutchings
12-19-2018, 01:40 PM
Oh yeah, then if they past the 80 painting test we still won't buy it because they used such and such color and brand paint. I think we need to perform our own tests using the materials we have. I couldn't be bothered and will choose to ignore all of this brouhaha.

Brouhaha, now there's a word. No idea what language it's from but I learned it from Fire Sign Theater back in the sixties.

Raffless
12-19-2018, 02:00 PM
They did one test but negative, you did zero tests but positive? :lol: Is anybody here who want to make a varnishing crash test with 80 oil paintings to proof, that WMO is safe to use with Gamvar? I know at least 2-3 guys, who love WMO much to do that! :)

Your missing the point Alex. Gamblin is a BIG company. They have put out a statement with one test on one painting?? You may not like WMO but even you must think that this is unprofessional. Funny because its as brittle as your Zinc. Ha ha yes:lol:

Raffless
12-19-2018, 02:03 PM
Oh yeah, then if they past the 80 painting test we still won't buy it because they used such and such color and brand paint. I think we need to perform our own tests using the materials we have. I couldn't be bothered and will choose to ignore all of this brouhaha.

Brouhaha, now there's a word. No idea what language it's from but I learned it from Fire Sign Theater back in the sixties.

Brouhaha is French Dick

DickHutchings
12-19-2018, 02:44 PM
All these years I've been speaking French! Between brouhaha and plein air, Ill get by just fine if I ever get to France. Bonjour, plein air brouhaha?

sidbledsoe
12-19-2018, 03:46 PM
This recommendation from Gamblin is not an attempt to discourage artists from using water-soluble oils as their chosen medium to create artwork.........
so at this time I will cease any commentary.
Mary, sometimes threads are answered fully and the poster is ok with discussing other topics, sometimes they are not, but I think Dick is ok with this other information at this time.

The Gamblin company (and many others), do tout their formulations, their products, and supply unnecessary ancillary information that is for the purpose of lifting up their product and putting down others. I learned this as a young child watching commercials on TV.
This is also the purpose of some other members posting on WC.
Here is one specific example from Gamblin (https://gamblincolors.com/getting-the-white-right-by-robert-gamblin/)that disparages a certain expensive, European, heavy pigment loaded paint, in other words, the paints made by Old Holland:
With one exception, all of the study samples passed the flexibility test of bending over a 1 mandrel without cracking. The one exception was an expensive European paint based on linseed oil that had a very heavily loaded binder. ...
Concerning the European paint that failed the flexibility test, there simply was not enough oil to create a flexible paint film. Over-loading the binder is a way for a manufacturer to create stiffer whites. With this comes a price to pay in terms of permanence.
Gamblin made sure to go above and beyond, to fully identify this paint, without saying Old Holland. What does expensive, or European have to do with this type of testing? Nothing.
But why did we need this extra information and testing from Gamblin, instead of just testing the Gamblin paints themselves, additionally, with no other independent studies or examinations?
In effect, it provides a recommendation, from Gamblin, to use their paints and not a brand like Old Holland.
Similarly, WMO paints were singled out and we were provided with similar extra information. I would rethink this kind of non independent testing that is being done by Gamblin that seems too often to result in negative recommendations regarding other company's products.

Many people mix paints, Old Holland paints and WMO paints are very often mixed with WN or Gamblin, or any other type of paints. People don't remember what was painted here and there or on what or where.
I fully believe that there needs to be a general warning for all varnish removal, rather than one aimed at any specific type of paint.

DAK723
12-19-2018, 06:22 PM
I hope Mary returns to let us know which WMO brand it was. The problem with this one painting's test results may have absolutely nothing to do with Gamvar. It may be specific to the WMO brand. Since, I believe, each WMO brand has a different patented formula to make them WMOs, this information from Gamblin does not answer even the most basic question as to what is the factor involved in the paint lifting.

It might be the Gamvar. It might be the WMO brand. It might not happen again. To be scientifically valid, you need to repeat the tests and get the same results.

In other words, what we have here is useless information from Gamblin based on almost no information. As someone who has been a Gamblin supporter and often refer to their website and contact page as a major resource for answering artist's questions, I am disappointed.

Don

sidbledsoe
12-20-2018, 08:49 AM
Thanks for this Sid. In your experience then do older paintings (regardless of whether WMO were used or not) tend not to lift when using OMS or another solvent? I wonder if it's to do with the age of the curing process.
Hi Richard, older could mean 10 to 200 years, IDK? I don't know that there is a typical trend that is age related or not.
I know that there are a number of factors that contribute to a weaker paint film. Notice that the color that lifted in my traditional oil painting was umber.
The times I have seen paint lift, it has often been an umber. They tend to sink in and may leave the surface under bound. Thinner drier glazes can be a whole lot more fragile than thick juicy passages, many other things can factor in.

Don is right, Gamblin can feel free to rejoin the conversation, since Dick has not asked us to get back on topic. Gamblin does make great paints and superb mediums.

Raffless
12-20-2018, 09:52 AM
I hope Mary returns to let us know which WMO brand it was.

Don

She won't of course. That is bad practice between paint manufacturers. You have to get along. Not without substantial evidence anyway.

But i still think its interesting why Gamblin decided to home in on WMO which they don't manufacture. It is a huge percentage of the market. :wink2:

Richard P
12-20-2018, 01:25 PM
Sid: Your burnt umber observations does suggest that a proper oiling out before applying varnish will also help when the time comes to remove that varnish.

Also, has anyone tried removing gamvar with gamsol on non-wmo paintings and had colour lift off?

sidbledsoe
12-20-2018, 09:28 PM
Sid: Your burnt umber observations does suggest that a proper oiling out before applying varnish will also help when the time comes to remove that varnish.

Also, has anyone tried removing gamvar with gamsol on non-wmo paintings and had colour lift off?
Yes, it is the main reason why I prefer to oil out. I believe that oiling out will help bind any under bound passages, it has to, the oil is absorbed down where there isn't sufficient binding oil, but where there definitely should be binding oil. If you don't oil out, varnish will be absorbed, and we know that modern varnish is soluble in OMS, so it should take some paint along with it too, if removed. Were those paintings that Gamblin tested oiled out before varnishing? lots of variables here.

I have removed traditional non WMO paint (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21416355&postcount=12) from paintings with only Gamsol, that I had varnished with Utrecht varnish, but I have never used Gamvar varnish myself.
This time it was some flesh color which was a mix of different pigments.
It is not uncommon for paint to be lifted from old paintings, which is why it is absurd to single out and issue warning aimed at only WMO paints as the sole paints that can exhibit solvent solubility, any paint can lift.

There is a thread (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1458602) now in the main forum where it happened with an old painting (the solvent is unknown as of now).
You just back off and stop when you see some lifting, and it usually does not matter at all, plus you can touch up if needed like Ochre did in that thread, it is really no big whoop.
Lifting has always been a concern, and has been happening regularly, with restoration and varnish removal, long before any WMO paints were around and Gamblin surely knows this fact, and it can even happen using only Gamsol.

I guess I have removed varnish many times because I will take my, and my mother's paintings, which are from 1 to 50 yrs old, and remove the varnish, and touch up or change something that bothers me. I am like Leonardo and am never finished with any painting.
But has this type of lifting ever been a problem that really mattered?, no, not at all.

Richard P
12-21-2018, 04:31 AM
That's interesting, I didn't know that it could lift like that with any oil type. I agree it's a bit unfair for Gamblin to mention this with WMO if it can happen with non-WMO's too then. Especially after only one test.

sidbledsoe
12-21-2018, 08:39 AM
That's interesting, I didn't know that it could lift like that with any oil type. I agree it's a bit unfair for Gamblin to mention this with WMO if it can happen with non-WMO's too then. Especially after only one test.

Apparently it was an isolated, single, non independent test, with no corroborating testing done by others to verify, the same as the "expensive, european brand", white paint testing they performed.
If WMO paints are more prone to solvent solublity, then it should be relatively easy to thoroughly test and verify. This is a pretty big deal in terms of making a damning claim about WMO's, as they are quite ubiquitous now, with many top companies making them.
Winsor Newton, (http://www.winsornewton.com/assets/Leaflets/artisan_a4_eng.PDF) and other companies have thoroughly tested their WMO paints, including testing for solvent solubility.
It is a fact that their testing results are in direct opposition to the Gamblin test.

quote from WN:

A number of tests have been carried out to measure the hardness and
resistance to water/solvents of the dry Artisan paint film in comparison to
conventional oil paint films. All results confirm Artisan has similar film
hardness and levels of resistance to both water and solvent as traditional
oil colours.

and

During the development process, Artisan colours were tested for many
properties that would be indicative of its durability such as adhesion, flexibility,
drying, film hardness, water resistance - as well as application properties such
as mixibility with water, flow, texture retention and wetting. In addition, the full
range of colours were painted out on canvas directly from the tube and with
mediums and/or water at different thicknesses and have been observed and
tested at regular intervals since.All results from this development stage have
confirmed that Artisan does indeed act in the same way as you would expect
from a conventional oil color.

Dcam
12-21-2018, 11:29 AM
They might sing a different tune when they open a line of WMOs to keep up with current popularity.
I was surprised to see that Georgian now has a line of WMOs.

Raffless
12-21-2018, 12:03 PM
I still would like to know why people remove varnish.(not talking old master restorations here). If its applied correctly it should last a lifetime :confused:

Dcam
12-21-2018, 12:13 PM
I agree, but I've seen members say things like oh....I want to change an area, or made a mistake.

Gigalot
12-21-2018, 01:33 PM
We need to recruit volunteers. They will do scientific crash test with their WMO and Gamvar! Everybody, who use WMO can help us to make a test with their paintings.

Dcam
12-21-2018, 01:40 PM
Alex....how much will you pay me?

sidbledsoe
12-21-2018, 02:49 PM
We need to recruit volunteers. They will do scientific crash test with their WMO and Gamvar! Everybody, who use WMO can help us to make a test with their paintings.
Here is the scientific protocol:
dip q-tip in Gamsol
scrub surface of painting
look at q-tip
if you see paint +
if no paint -

Raffless
12-21-2018, 04:02 PM
We need to recruit volunteers. They will do scientific crash test with their WMO and Gamvar! Everybody, who use WMO can help us to make a test with their paintings.

You mean like this scientific test.

"When testing the removal of varnish, the color lifted easily on the WMO and left a gummy feel to the surface. The same test repeated on the traditional oil painting had very little to no color lifted and the paint layers stayed hard underneath". :lol:

Dcam
12-21-2018, 04:44 PM
Yeah: I tried sulfuric acid with the Q-tip....why the hole?

Gigalot
12-22-2018, 04:12 AM
Yeah: I tried sulfuric acid with the Q-tip....why the hole?
I can try regular dish liquid with regular oil paint mixture. To study surfactant solvent solubility effects. :lol: (do not remember about green bio-diesel addition :cat: )

DickHutchings
12-23-2018, 06:07 AM
OK, back on topic for a little. I decide that since I can't swap these paints with anyone, I'm going to give them another try. I know that I like painting with medium so I went shopping. I went to 3 local craft stores that sell oil paint. Not one of them had any WMO mediums. I didn't try Hobby Lobby because I tried of the search. My next option was to drive into the city of Providence where there's a couple of real art stores, Dick Blicks and one other I haven't been to and can't think of the name. They would surely have some but I hate the city and opted to purchase with my finger from the comfort of my couch. Bingo Dick Blicks Carrie's the mediums that are made by Holbein, exactly what I wanted. Paints and mediums all from the same manufacturer so there's no question about compatibility.

I ordered some linseed and stand oil
But they won't arrive until my Christmas vacation is over. Crap! So it's back to the regular oils for my next masterpiece.

Back off topic. Thanks for the gamvar distraction. I may use it just to spite myself.