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equinespirit
11-28-2018, 09:37 AM
Does anybody have any advice for what to use to oil out over a painting done with safflower oil/ low odour solvent as the medium please?

Humbaba
11-28-2018, 09:41 AM
I see no reason to avoid Linseed oil, it will actually be a good thing considering that safflower is weaker. If you are worried about yellowing, Walnut or Stand oil are also good candidates, but keep in mind that they dry slower, and introduce glossiness.

Gigalot
11-28-2018, 10:56 AM
Let it dry and use picture varnish. Do not oil out. :)

sidbledsoe
11-28-2018, 12:59 PM
Does anybody have any advice for what to use to oil out over a painting done with safflower oil/ low odour solvent as the medium please?
You can oil out with whatever you want to use.
Oiling out is not a coating or a layer that is put on top of a painting.
It is applied to sink in, be absorbed, and fill the minute pores created by
the shrinking/drying process in oil starved areas. It feeds the voids thus created, and does not contribute to yellowing. If you ever see that, then you
have done it wrong and you have not properly wiped away all of the excess surface oil.
If you don't fix oil starved sunken areas with oiling out, and just varnish, then the varnish itself will be absorbed down into those voids, pores, and gaps.

equinespirit
11-28-2018, 01:06 PM
Thanks folks.
So could I use Safflower oil ? and would I mix it with solvent or apply neat?
I do also have walnut, stand and poppy oils.

Richard P
11-28-2018, 02:03 PM
Of the oils you have I would use walnut oil and follow Sid's advice.

Gigalot
11-28-2018, 02:14 PM
My advice is by far do not use oiling out for that. Use synthetic picture varnish.

DAK723
11-28-2018, 03:16 PM
You can oil out with whatever you want to use.
Oiling out is not a coating or a layer that is put on top of a painting.
It is applied to sink in, be absorbed, and fill the minute pores created by
the shrinking/drying process in oil starved areas. It feeds the voids thus created, and does not contribute to yellowing. If you ever see that, then you
have done it wrong and you have not properly wiped away all of the excess surface oil.
If you don't fix oil starved sunken areas with oiling out, and just varnish, then the varnish itself will be absorbed down into those voids, pores, and gaps.
Sid knows. Follow the advice of Sid.

Marsjoyofpainting
11-28-2018, 03:47 PM
Thanks folks.
So could I use Safflower oil ? and would I mix it with solvent or apply neat?
I do also have walnut, stand and poppy oils.

Oil mediums thinned with Gamsol OMS (or any grade of Mineral Spirit/Solvent) effectively absorb and sink into paint layers that are thirsty & in need of binder more so than oil that is pure and undiluted. The following are appropriate medium options and combinations.

Galkyd Medium/Gamsol, 1:1
Refined Linseed***/Gamsol, 1:3

***Refined Linseed could be substituted with any other oil, like safflower, walnut, stand or poppy. The Galkyd medium is an alkyd product so it dries the fastest and is a popular choice for that reason.

Galkyd already contains Gamsol in its formulation, which is why the ratio of dilution w/ Gamsol is different.

equinespirit
11-28-2018, 03:52 PM
Thanks so much guys, really helpful.

Marsjoyofpainting
11-28-2018, 04:18 PM
If you don't fix oil starved sunken areas with oiling out, and just varnish, then the varnish itself will be absorbed down into those voids, pores, and gaps.

This is so true, thank you for mentioning this!! At the Gamblin Technical Support desk we often have calls or emails from painters who use Gamvar on paintings that have dramatically sunken in with the intention of bringing out the saturation in the dulled colors. Unfortunately, this can result in a dry / patchy look that is even more noticeable after the varnish is applied because the varnish resin is lightweight enough to sink into the thirsty areas. Oiling-out prior to varnishing will reduce surface absorbency by adding more binder into dull, sunken-in areas. Gamvar will lay down more evenly on a painting that has low absorbency.

Richard P
11-28-2018, 04:24 PM
Can I ask a question here?

Do you find that painters who don't use solvents and use more oil or a Gambin Solvent free product experience less sinking in, and therefore oiling out before a varnish application is less important?

Marsjoyofpainting
11-28-2018, 05:20 PM
Can I ask a question here?

Do you find that painters who don't use solvents and use more oil or a Gambin Solvent free product experience less sinking in, and therefore oiling out before a varnish application is less important?

Hi Richard,

The best method of communication if you wish to have a specific question answered is to email us directly. I personally visit WetCanvas periodically when time allows with my schedule, and I spend a majority of my working hours answering questions sent directly to the Gamblin painter support helpline.

Please feel free to use the contact page at the Gamblin website or send questions directly to my email : [email protected] - this is the best way to ensure that a Gamblin Product Specialist sees your question and can send a thorough reply back in a timely manner.

The answer to your question really depends. There are multiple factors that can contribute to dull surface sheen that needs to be oiled-out. I'll name several.

1. The amount of any medium used in proportion to oil color
2. The thickness of paint layer application
3. The type of pigment used
4. The choice of ground used to prepare the support for painting

All of the factor listed above can play a role in surface quality and surface absorbency. I can honestly say that painters who exclusively use pure oil or our Solvent-Free mediums experience variance in surface quality just as much as painters who incorporate solvent into their work. Over-thinning with solvent, by itself, can also contribute to dull layers but not exclusively. Lastly, working off a absorbent ground like acrylic gesso can largely contribute to sinking in. Meanwhile, if one uses a non-absorbent oil or alkyd primer, colors have greater color saturation and less variance in surface shine once dry.

If a painter is ever unsure of if they should oil-out prior to varnishing I always tell them not to worry. In the event that your final layer of Gamvar does turn out patchy / uneven / strange in consistency, you can very easily and safely remove the varnish with Gamsol. After the varnish is removed, you can then oil-out. Once dry, if dull areas remain, oil-out just those areas one more time. Allow the oil-out application(s) to dry completely tack free before attempting to varnish again.

Gamblin Product Manager Scott Gellatly wrote an excellent article years ago on controlling surface quality, which I believe many artists will benefit from reading if this subject is interesting to them:
https://gamblincolors.com/controlling-surface-quality-a-holistic-approach/

I hope this helps and if you have additional questions I would encourage you to contact Gamblin directly. :thumbsup:

equinespirit
11-28-2018, 06:54 PM
Even more helpful thank you!
Ive actually just ordered some Gamsol and Galkyd light.

Humbaba
11-28-2018, 08:44 PM
Oiling out should be a straight forward operation, a brush, a white piece of cloth and oil. Once the painting is dried, we can consider what varnish to use for protection.

Using a synthetic resin instead does not sound like a logical step.

Gigalot
11-29-2018, 03:39 AM
Using a synthetic resin instead does not sound like a logical step.
But, synthetic resin forms strictly non-yellowish coating.

sidbledsoe
11-29-2018, 07:13 AM
Yellowing isn't a factor.
I think Humbaba is saying that using varnish to be absorbed down into the dry sunken voids to fill the pores is not what you want, that is where binding oil should be. If you do have these oil starved areas, and don't feed them with an oil or medium, and you just varnish with a synthetic varnish, then you are still oiling out those areas, but you are using varnish to oil out.
You want the varnish to be a discreet layer that lays on top of the paint film, thus providing an even surface quality or sheen, even protection, and ease of future removal without disturbing the paint.

equinespirit
11-29-2018, 09:08 AM
Im confused now, sorry , so is the Galkyd a varnish?
Should I use Gamsol and oil?

Gigalot
11-29-2018, 09:29 AM
Im confused now, sorry , so is the Galkyd a varnish?
Should I use Gamsol and oil?
No, Galkyd isn't a varnish, it is painting medium. I meant to use Synvar or Soluvar synthetic acrylic-based varnishes for my own, "oiling out" process.