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SngnArtist
10-24-2018, 04:07 PM
Hey guys I have a possible piece to do which will be a gift to someone else they know and I know what to quote without matting and framing but I don't know what to quote with it as i have never done it. What is the average you charge for that? ( i have to everything shipped in so for me would be more but.. ) Second, Is it better to find somewhere to do it or just do it myself? Is it hard to do? Thanks

water girl
10-24-2018, 07:19 PM
I do it myself. When Aaron Brothers closed recently, I was able to score a nice supply of frames that should last a while. If you have standard sized work, you can buy pre-cut mats. . I use a pre-cut double mat, securing my work to the mat with largest opening first. It is hinged to the mat, using a good quality framing tape. Next step...place the mat with the smaller opening on top. That way, if any pastel dust ever falls off the paper, it will fall behind the top mat. I cut a piece of mat board for the back. You now have a "sandwich" that you can place face down in your glassed frame. I use a point driver to secure your work and mats into the frame. https://www.cheapjoes.com/logan-f500-2-dual-drive-elite-point-driver.html Before I secure the hardward to the frame, I run a line of double sided tape along the back edge of frame. I take good quality craft paper and press on to the tape, then trim. This is a dust cover for pastels.
It is intimidating the first time, but well worth learning the process.

SngnArtist
10-25-2018, 05:21 AM
I do it myself. When Aaron Brothers closed recently, I was able to score a nice supply of frames that should last a while. If you have standard sized work, you can buy pre-cut mats. . I use a pre-cut double mat, securing my work to the mat with largest opening first. It is hinged to the mat, using a good quality framing tape. Next step...place the mat with the smaller opening on top. That way, if any pastel dust ever falls off the paper, it will fall behind the top mat. I cut a piece of mat board for the back. You now have a "sandwich" that you can place face down in your glassed frame. I use a point driver to secure your work and mats into the frame. https://www.cheapjoes.com/logan-f500-2-dual-drive-elite-point-driver.html Before I secure the hardward to the frame, I run a line of double sided tape along the back edge of frame. I take good quality craft paper and press on to the tape, then trim. This is a dust cover for pastels.
It is intimidating the first time, but well worth learning the process.

oh wow never though of reverse the double mat but that makes sense. Is there any pictures to go along with the framing part of it somewhere?

water girl
10-25-2018, 03:15 PM
You could try YouTube. This one shows the point driver and dust cover. Framing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o0c7TaHwv8)

SngnArtist
10-26-2018, 12:40 AM
You could try YouTube. This one shows the point driver and dust cover. Framing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o0c7TaHwv8)

thank you I'll do that ...I can't afford a point driver at this point though.....on a funny note I've discovered one of my stick I thought was a darker grey is actually brown lol I got a Derwent sharpener and im half happy half not with it. I can either sharpen great or chew my pencils up. my one black suddenly started getting chewed up while at first it was sharpening great. ARe there certain colors that are worse then others in those crank style sharpeners?

SngnArtist
10-26-2018, 04:52 PM
What does it cost on average though? i need to give a price to a potential commission

Equus Art
10-28-2018, 09:44 AM
I frame for myself and most of my commission clients after having had an issue with a framer saying they won't frame a pastel unless it is sprayed heavy with fixative. I don't use fixative on my final layers and hardly at all. At the time we were at the framer, picking out mats and frames. The framer agreed to do the mats of choice, order the frame, the glass and sell it to the client in a bundle. I took it home and framed it for her for $50.00, she paid for the materials.

That's how I work with most of my clients now and my own stuff. I use pictureframes.com or Frame Destination for the glass and mounting board. On Picture Frames you can upload a photo of your work and "try on" all kinds of mats and frames until the combo that you (and/or client) decide on works.

I do have a Logan mat cutter but my studio space is so limited that it makes working with large sheets of mat board very difficult. For me, I just find it easier and less of a headache to frame in this manner. The client pays for all of the materials and I charge about $50.00 to do the physical framing since everything is cut to specs and it normally takes me less than an hour. I will use spacers if the client or myself decides no mat. I've never been disappointed with Picture Frames and when one arrived with a tiny damaged place, they sent me out a rush duplicate at no charge and told me to keep the other frame free. There was a small, minor damage, that for my personal art, I could have fixed (and did) but this was for a show.

Cat

SngnArtist
10-28-2018, 04:14 PM
I frame for myself and most of my commission clients after having had an issue with a framer saying they won't frame a pastel unless it is sprayed heavy with fixative. I don't use fixative on my final layers and hardly at all. At the time we were at the framer, picking out mats and frames. The framer agreed to do the mats of choice, order the frame, the glass and sell it to the client in a bundle. I took it home and framed it for her for $50.00, she paid for the materials.

That's how I work with most of my clients now and my own stuff. I use pictureframes.com or Frame Destination for the glass and mounting board. On Picture Frames you can upload a photo of your work and "try on" all kinds of mats and frames until the combo that you (and/or client) decide on works.

I do have a Logan mat cutter but my studio space is so limited that it makes working with large sheets of mat board very difficult. For me, I just find it easier and less of a headache to frame in this manner. The client pays for all of the materials and I charge about $50.00 to do the physical framing since everything is cut to specs and it normally takes me less than an hour. I will use spacers if the client or myself decides no mat. I've never been disappointed with Picture Frames and when one arrived with a tiny damaged place, they sent me out a rush duplicate at no charge and told me to keep the other frame free. There was a small, minor damage, that for my personal art, I could have fixed (and did) but this was for a show.

Cat


OH wow I had no idea Framers refuse to frame Pastels that are not fixed. I have a WIP that is shipping to her as is but maybe now i should inform her of this (shes a family member so its cool to talk to her) I refuse to use fixative as i have seen what they have done so no go on that for me.

I'm going to check out Picture Frames and logan mat cutter as i guess it's best to just do it yourself plus I'm guessing most clients probably just want to receive it and enjoy it and not fuss with getting matted and framed. so 50+ materials?

contumacious
10-28-2018, 11:49 PM
This is my absolute favorite way of framing pastels. If done right, they also travel / ship better than any other framing method. After extensive testing for several years, I won't ever go back to spacers or spaced mats if I can avoid it.

https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-mediums/pastel/pastel-pointers-blog-passe-partout-framing/

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1298251

Good luck trying to find a framing shop to do this type of work. They will think you are crazy (As will several pastel painters on WC! :lol: )

SngnArtist
10-29-2018, 02:34 PM
This is my absolute favorite way of framing pastels. If done right, they also travel / ship better than any other framing method. After extensive testing for several years, I won't ever go back to spacers or spaced mats if I can avoid it.

https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-mediums/pastel/pastel-pointers-blog-passe-partout-framing/

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1298251

Good luck trying to find a framing shop to do this type of work. They will think you are crazy (As will several pastel painters on WC! :lol: )

LOL well you didnt have to laugh at me hehheheh. btw wasn't thinking framing shop per say as we don't even have one anywhere that i know of...only things we have that i can sometimes get to (40 minutes away etc) is a Michaels,,, Jo-Ann fabrics but from sound of it that is a no go from some comments. This is a crazy notion to me a frame shop that cant frame all because its pastel? Doesn't say much for their abilities then to me. I will check out those thread as I would be shipping to clients and surely want to ensure that they arrive as good as they were before shipping. What if you have one that wants to have shipped not matted and framed?

After re reading did you mean good luck with getting htem to do this particular method?

contumacious
10-30-2018, 10:59 PM
After re reading did you mean good luck with getting htem to do this particular method?

Yes, that was what the laughter emoticon was in reference to. It goes against everything they learned about framing pastels. In other words, you are pretty much going to have to do this type of framing yourself, but it is well worth learning / considering.

SngnArtist
10-31-2018, 07:36 PM
Yes, that was what the laughter emoticon was in reference to. It goes against everything they learned about framing pastels. In other words, you are pretty much going to have to do this type of framing yourself, but it is well worth learning / considering.

ohh ok lol I think I might consider it after i have had some experience and can grasp it. Maybe im making this whole framing more difficult then it is but I don't have the funds to order the big ticket items like Logan mat cutter etc but at the same time I sure don't want to cheapen out so much that a work is ruined they paid money to commission me for.

I don't like thick mats that come with frames. 3 inch wide is to much for me. I'd like maybe 1 -2 inches. I don't like it that wide so cutting mats would probably be more the route I would need to take until I can grasp this other method that you say is the best way.

SngnArtist
10-31-2018, 08:01 PM
Stupid question for those of you who don't use Mats and use spaces instead you then have to paint to the very edge of your paper correct?

pastel65
10-31-2018, 08:58 PM
Correct. I hinge my work onto a board so I can paint the entire sheet. I'm not a professional, more of a hobbyist, but really liked some 9x12 plein air frames I got on sale at Jerry's and I used spacers from Dakota pastels and glass I purchased separately with great success.

I just ordered some frames for two oils from framersoutlet.com. Great prices but not sure of quality since they have not arrived yet. I'm also lucky in that I live near a company that makes frames and their annual warehouse sale to benefit employees fund is this week for two days. We line up early and I actually bring a cart.

As suggested earlier there are some YouTube videos that help with creating the "sandwich" recommended earlier.

I volunteer to teach art at a senior center and when we do pan pastels, which they love, I put their finished work in mats with backing boards and plastic sleeves that I purchase in bulk from Amazon. Really saves money doing it that way.

Happy painting.

Pam:wave:

PeggyB
12-10-2018, 09:33 PM
What does it cost on average though? i need to give a price to a potential commission

As someone who worked for a professional frame shop for 14 years, here's what I came to know.
Professional framing prices vary greatly from area to area. I suggest you go to a local framer and ask them what they'd charge you to frame a pastel. It is important to mention "pastel" because believe it or not, not all "professional" framers know how to safely frame them. You can even take your work there, and say you are looking for an estimate. They shouldn't expect you to accept their quote. If you have more than one shop available to you, I'd go to several. You may be surprised at how different they can be. Also ask if they do the framing on site or ship it elsewhere. I'd never use a framer that ships off site.

I too took great advantage of Aaron Brothers closing -and silently "cried" when they closed their doors. My method is different from Karen's. I almost never use mats. In many areas of the country that has become the most often used method. It eliminates any possibility of dust falling on a mat, it is less expensive because you are using a smaller frame than you would if you are using a mat, and you're not buying a mat. I don't use the glass that comes with most ready made frames, but rather cut my own conservation or museum glass to size. Framing directly against the glass is a method you can learn about on line. Richard McKinley has a blog that is very good at describing how its done both with and without spacers.

Peggy