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tmwilliams
05-20-2018, 03:06 PM
I know enough to know my figures are not quite right. However, I don't know enough to know why - or what to do about it.


Are they out of proportion? Poor palette? Cartoonish expressions?


I sense that's the problem...but need some brutally honest feedback and thoughts on what might be done.


It's all still a WIP...thanks for your help.


Thomas


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-May-2018/2022851-IMG_2081.JPG

cliff.kachinske
05-20-2018, 04:22 PM
I think the leftmost figure has the most natural pose. His helmet looks a little askew, though.

The center figure's torso appears to be behind the one on the left but his legs seem to be in front. The lower parts of his legs don't line up with his thighs. The extended arm is unnatural; nobody's arm and shoulder are straight like that.

The guy on the tank's upper arm looks a little short to me.

The helmet straps aren't helping; I would lose them.

This is why I don't usually put figures in my paintings. They are so flippin' fussy. Maybe it would be a good idea to draw the tank and figures on paper with a pencil to work out all the issues. I know that seems like a step backwards, but it's easier to change a pencil drawing than a painting.

tmwilliams
05-20-2018, 05:09 PM
All good thoughts. Thanks. I think going back to a sketch might be prudent.

Charlie's Mum
05-20-2018, 05:58 PM
They're out of proportion with the tank Thomas - think about how they would get in there!
I'm not sure whether the middle gifure is supposed to be leaning on the tank - in which cae he's nowhere near close enough - or whether he's just standing apart (so OK) and pointing - but if he and his companion are forward of tank and other figure, they should be larger.
Think about how BIG a tank is and how much higher than a person it would be - and how, physically, you could fit these guys into it - that should give you some idea of proportion of figures to tanks.
For the men, make stick figures first - body approx 7 heads top to toe - width approx 1.5 heads wide, legs approx half total length, hands down at mid-thigh level, waists 1.5 heads from chin, hips hald head below waist ..... all of these proportions are approximate because we are all fatter/thinner/individuals etc.
For heads, draw a rough egg shape and then fit helmet over and around it ... ears/eyes half way down head and helmet resting on ears - such approximations will help place things.
If that central figure is putting weight on his left leg, you're more or less right with iner ankle under central line from throat - but that leg will be straight and the other a little more relaxed .......... if weight is evenly distributed, then feet equally apart from centre line.

You seem to have a good shape to the tank - :thumbsup:
The limited palette is fine :thumbsup:
The composition is pretty good too. :)

Hope this helps!:)

tmwilliams
05-20-2018, 06:37 PM
Thanks. Good tips on the figures. On the size of the tanks...those Renaults were actually quite small. Two man crew. There's a pic of George Patton standing next to one and he's nearly as tall (although he was 6'2").

Vivien Maloney
05-20-2018, 07:26 PM
I'm no good at figures either, so I try to avoid them in my paintings! However, there's a small wooden figurine, for artists, with movable limbs, you can buy in most Art Stores. This would be a terrific help for you working out proportions etc.

tmwilliams
05-20-2018, 07:39 PM
I've seen those. I want to get better - so I suppose getting one would make sense.

brusher
05-20-2018, 08:37 PM
Thomas:
I think there are a lot of simple tutorials online about posture, position of body in stance (contraposto) and weight distribution; they will help you (the invisible vertical line going through the body, resulting in balance and believable distribution of weight in figures). It's really a lot of fun once you start studying it. A lot of truth in how we handle our bodies in movement, that no one ever thinks about (except dancers maybe?) And it will help you with the seated figure (on tank), also!
Cathy

tmwilliams
05-21-2018, 11:06 AM
"It's really a lot of fun once you start studying it."

Cathy - I look forward to it!

Thomas

Charlie's Mum
05-21-2018, 12:37 PM
Cathy's right Thomas, figure drawing is fun .. challenging fun!:)

tmwilliams
05-21-2018, 12:56 PM
:)

tmwilliams
05-21-2018, 06:46 PM
I had some time today - so I began a re-work of the "dismounts" (as we'd call them in the Armor community.) I was eager to try out the new techniques.

The guy on top of the tank comes directly from the original photo. I think the "stick figure" technique worked well for representing him more accurately.

For the others, I found a photo of some WWII officers reading a map and used the stick-figure method again to sketch out their posture.

In both cases, I added some definition to the lines and like what I see, so far.

Obviously I have a lot of work ahead - boots, shadows, and the helmets look like bowler hats...

Thomas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-May-2018/2022851-IMG_2084.jpeg

Charlie's Mum
05-22-2018, 11:29 AM
I think they look much more natural now Thomas!

I bow to your comments about the tanks as I've no knowledge other than seeing pics!:lol:

I'm glad the stick figure ideas help .........
another tip there - shoulders and hips are always at right angles to spine - so if spine slants, the horizontals do too!
In your sketch book try doing lots of little figures in different positions just remembering the rough proportions and what the body an (and cannot) do!:)
Drawings need only be an inch or so high.

talisman
05-22-2018, 12:00 PM
Big improvement on the people!
They look so much more natural and I think this will work better.
Keep posting your updates!

Artchrispy
05-22-2018, 05:12 PM
I had some time today - so I began a re-work of the "dismounts" (as we'd call them in the Armor community.) I was eager to try out the new techniques.

The guy on top of the tank comes directly from the original photo. I think the "stick figure" technique worked well for representing him more accurately.

For the others, I found a photo of some WWII officers reading a map and used the stick-figure method again to sketch out their posture.

In both cases, I added some definition to the lines and like what I see, so far.

Obviously I have a lot of work ahead - boots, shadows, and the helmets look like bowler hats...

Thomas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-May-2018/2022851-IMG_2084.jpeg

I must be missing something. I don't see the reworked image, only the underpainted figures?? Maybe a glitch??

tmwilliams
05-22-2018, 07:10 PM
Just the roughed in underpainting so far...wanted to work on pose before going further

tmwilliams
05-22-2018, 07:11 PM
More great advice, Maureen, TY!

tmwilliams
05-27-2018, 07:41 PM
Still really unhappy with my figures. I thought I was in good shape as I roughed them in, but I ruined them with each level of added detail. I'll gesso them out tomorrow and start anew. Trying to remind myself that it's a learning opportunity...and I think it'll take years to get this right.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-May-2018/2022851-IMG_2117.JPG