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Zarathustra
11-08-2003, 05:11 PM
I'd promised to paint my little sister, but before commencing on a large canvas, I thought I might try a small study of her first. Two days ago I had read about the flemish technique to painting, and thought I might kill birds with one stone.
Of course, Flemish technique at speed is a contradiction, it's a long winded procedure, but as I am using alkyds and am budgeting by painting on paper, there's nothing to lose.
In way of a disclaimer I have very little technical knowledge in painting.

I primed the paper with Lascaux gesso, and lightly drew the portrait outline. When I felt fairly confident the proportions were correct I went over the lines using a pen nib and water resistant drawing ink. (graphite will disappear and/or smudge when the oil paint is applied).
I produced a mix of titanium white, yellow ochre, ultramarine blue and lamp black for the imprimatura stage. Rubbing linseed oil onto the paper using my finger, I rubbed off any excess with a tissue. The paint mix for the imprimatura should have been an olive hue, but I'd mixed a very nuetral gray, so I added a small touch of windsor lemon and then applied the imprimatura. It was too dark! The next day I made a lighter mix and applied it again - the ink drawing was just about visible through the paint.

The next stage is the umber underlayer. This afternoon I painted the umber onto the paper using my pen lines as a guideline, the idea being that each stage of the painting stands up on its own before the next stage is followed through.
The toning stage was much quicker than I was expecting, but I now need to leave it to dry before I touch up areas where the shading is incorrect.
Note, I've not made the dark's too dark, as when colour is added later it will naturally deepen in contrast. I also need to fix one of the eyes and tweak a few things. The dress has a very intricate design, but I figure it would be wise to tone the dress first before attempting to add it. Ordinarily I should probably wait a week before I work on it again, but as this is Flemish at speed, I'll work on it again tomorrow. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-wip1.jpg

Once the umber underlayer is correct, I will need to add a "dead layer" before contemplating colour.
I've no idea how this going to turn out, as I've done very few portraits in oil, but I'll post the progress as I go along, even if it's disastrous.
Please feel free to criticise or correct me as I go along, I'm sure it will help me a great deal.

Classical Vince
11-08-2003, 06:23 PM
Hi Gavin. This is going to be great to watch you work through this technique. I have read a little on the 7layer process, is this the one you are working with? I was floored when I read that they would wait 7weeks between layers!

The first stage looks great. It probably was a good idea for you to do a small study first to get familiar with the process. Lookin forward to seeing your progress.

Zarathustra
11-08-2003, 06:30 PM
Hi Vince.

Seven weeks between layers?! Wow. (by my surprise you can tell I've not heard of it ;) ).
Needless to say this is only a small study, and I don't want to spend a great deal of time on it, but even if I was going the full hog, I wouldn't have the patience for seven weeks between layers. One thing is almost certain - you wouldn't have to worry about the fat over lean principle. :)

Halo
11-08-2003, 08:05 PM
It's very exciting to be watching this in progress as I am just learning this technique as well. Looking great so far!!! I am just starting a large dog painting and I have tentatively blocked in the background with umbers, etc, but it's scarin' me LOL!

Gia
11-09-2003, 06:30 AM
this is going to be a success for sure, perfect start ...

Zarathustra
11-09-2003, 06:53 AM
Hi Gia and Halo. Thanks for commenting.

I touched up the umber stage this morning and it's looking a lot better. I'm still having problems with the eye, but can't do too much to correct it at the moment because of the ink layer beneath. If I play with it too much it will just get darker and darker (as I'm not using any white at present), and as it stands there are a few too many hard lines. I'm fairly confident the dead layer will fix it.

I'll scan it this evening; it's a little too wet for my scanner right now.

JamieWG
11-09-2003, 09:40 AM
Gorgeous sister, wonderful start, and I love what she's wearing! What is the size of the study, Gavin?

Jamie

Zarathustra
11-09-2003, 09:47 AM
Hi Jamie. She's just started at University in Oxford, but is home this weekend - she's very small and young looking for her age.
The dress she's wearing will be a real challenge because it is a silky blue one from China (parent's brought it back from their travels) with a very elaborate design!
The study is 30cm by 40cm.

Zarathustra
11-09-2003, 11:14 AM
Okay, it isn't dry, but I risked scanning it, and quickly wiped my scanner glass with a cloth in case there was any residue left behind... I have a funny sense of 'patience'.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-wip2.jpg

Raindrop
11-09-2003, 11:22 AM
It looks good. I'm impatient to see the blue silk, so I'm happy you won't wait for 7 weeks before applying the next layer, LOL!


PS: your new tinyhead is fun :)

canvasjockey
11-10-2003, 12:22 AM
That looks great!! I'm looking forward to seeing this develop, just glad we don't have to wait 7 weeks to see the next step!

What did they do back then with this 7 layer process?? Did they start a new painting every couple of days, and just work on some kind of a rotation schedule, every few days a different painting's "7 week" deadline is reached, they'd complete the next step?! At least then they'd come out with more than one painting a year!

Carole

Craig Houghton
11-10-2003, 01:37 AM
I share your sense of 'patience,' and I'm looking forward to the next post. This is fantastic. I'll be spending some time this evening mining for information on the 7 layer process.

Great work!!

-Craig

palob
11-10-2003, 04:04 AM
Gavin, your progress is perfect!
I can see you will beat me with time totally. Your painting will be framed and hanging before I get to dead underlayer :D.
Yes it takes long to dry if done how Antonov says, but 7 weeks seems to be only superstitious number to me. Consider: 7 layers, 7 weeks... I would not be afraid much about that. But 2 weeks sound more reasonable for me.

Pavol

Zarathustra
11-10-2003, 04:26 AM
Carol, I think Pavol probably answered your question, but yes, between drying times, I've no doubt they alternated between working on lots of different paintings.

I'll probably give this a week to dry, given it's done with alkyds, and I'll knock up the dead layer this next weekend.

Pavlov... :D In 40 years time my painting will probably be cracked, or the paper will find a way to disintegrate, I'm sure yours will stand the test of time. ;)
I find the underlayer easy enough, and I don't think I will struggle too much with the dead layer, but I'm a little anxious about the colour element - I believe that is the stage where I could completely destroy this.

E-J
11-10-2003, 09:20 AM
Z, I believe this kind of Chinese dress is called a cheongsam. They're so glamorous ... a nice idea to have your sister wear it for the portrait.

Brave of you, too, to attempt the demo when you haven't yet done many portraits in oil. I hope you don't mind me coming along for the ride! I promise I'll sit quietly in the corner and won't say a word. I won't be offering crits or corrections as my own experience with oils is about five sketches short of non-existent, but as someone who's used to painting rather more speedily (I use pastels) I'm already finding this procedure fascinating.

Johnnie
11-10-2003, 09:29 AM
Hi Z

I am interested in the technique you are using and will be following along with your WIP on this portrait. Great job so far with this being new to portraits.

Looking forward to the rest.

Johnnie

WFMartin
11-10-2003, 03:18 PM
Z,

You must realize that I've seen, and enjoyed, a lot of your work, and this is promising to certainly be one of your finest! Looking great!

Bill:)

Zarathustra
11-10-2003, 03:30 PM
Hi E-J. You think it's a cheongsam? There's no way I can verify that, but somebody else thought it was smoking robe of all things!
Please don't sit in a corner, you're more than welcome to comment. My few efforts in pastel helped with the blending in this oil.

Hi Johnnie. I saw you mention the Flemish technique somewhere in the oil forum. I hope it gives you an insight, but please understand I am a layman when it comes to art and its technical aspects. I've read several sources, but I haven't the experience to back up anything I've read.

Hi Bill. Thanks for the kind words. It's mutually reciprocated, I've enjoyed your work since coming to WC. The painting of your friend (the sportsman?) particularly stood out - quite amazing, I think you found something special in that painting.

Johnnie
11-10-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
Hi Johnnie. I saw you mention the Flemish technique somewhere in the oil forum. I hope it gives you an insight, but please understand I am a layman when it comes to art and its technical aspects. I've read several sources, but I haven't the experience to back up anything I've read.


Hi Z

Yes your right I did. I was wondering on the juicyness of the style but noone seemed to want to answer. THey were more interested in argueing with each other.


Yes. Well I am under the impression that the style is very flat. Not globby or rough shall I say. Which is they way I wish to paint. I am new so dont feel bad I aint judging you thats for sure. Do you know if this is the case or not. Why I say that is the layering involved and also the scraping. I might be reading that wrong tho. Also the photoes make the paintings look very flat and shiny, which I really do like. Dont want bumpy globby painting when done. A little ok for the odd highlight ect. Well you know what I mean I am sure.

I got that same .PDF file that you got from PAPPAS site and getting some GOOD oils in a day or so. I have walmart junk but its got me going far as mixing goes.

So I dont know if you know the answer to my question up there. Maybe someone else does.

So yes I will be watching this with great interest and hope you really enjoy what you are doing.

Z. Go to the below site. He is a Flemish style artist but he does the first few layers with acrylic then uses oils to finish it off. Also there is demo videos there. I am thing of getting a couple actually. I find PAPPAS videos just to expensive. I have to pay Canadian money and his price is just too high for me. Not saying it wouldnt be worth it . I just cant afford it being on pension. Anyway check this site out. You might like it . The demos you can download also.

http://www.flemishrealism.com/

Johnnie

Zarathustra
11-10-2003, 05:12 PM
Hi Jonnie.
The oil forum can get a little "passionate" at times. :)

I don't know if you've visited many art galleries in your area? I've seen several very old master paintings at a distance where I could practically press my nose against the canvas - some of the detail is simply unreal. I can confirm that the work I have seen is very flat, yet not lacking in depth.
As you elude to, some of the highlights feature more paint, but even that appears flat.

I always enjoy my work until something goes wrong and then I become frustrated with it. :) The future of this painting is a lottery, unfortunately I don't have the painting experience to know where it's going.

arlene
11-11-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
Hi Jonnie.
The oil forum can get a little "passionate" at times. :)

I don't know if you've visited many art galleries in your area? I've seen several very old master paintings at a distance where I could practically press my nose against the canvas - some of the detail is simply unreal. I can confirm that the work I have seen is very flat, yet not lacking in depth.
As you elude to, some of the highlights feature more paint, but even that appears flat.

I always enjoy my work until something goes wrong and then I become frustrated with it. :) The future of this painting is a lottery, unfortunately I don't have the painting experience to know where it's going.


truth? usually the end is not 100% what we wanted...its why we keep striving to make our next piece ths best...

where's the next step? I'm watching this one carefully

Matt Sammekull
11-14-2003, 12:32 PM
you took your sister for a ride over to this forum? Well, that's okay... I don't mind cruising between here and the oil forum.

How's it going with the painting?

A great weekend I wish you... (using the syntax of Yoda)

May the force be with you.

//matt

Zarathustra
11-15-2003, 11:17 AM
Next step coming up Arlene. ;)

Matt, shhhh, I'm moonlighting in this forum, but don't let on dude.

Okay, it's the following weekend. My underlayer is very dry and next comes the "dead" layer, which I have managed to turn into "the big freeze" layer.
I underestimated the tinting properties of winsor blue (which I haven't used before), and even with yellow ochre and burnt umber, I didn't spend any time properly establishing the mixtures, so there's a little more blue than I would have liked, but I don't see it as a big issue.

I rushed the dead layer a little more than I would have liked because I'm eager to get this complete and dislike painting the same thing twice, which is almost what happens with this technique (thrice if you count the colour).
I will leave it another week and spend a little more time with colours and details

Incidentally, I decided the background really didn't need any "deadness" adding to it. They'll be a touch of colour added in the next stage.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-stage3.jpg

Close up of eye.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-stage3-1.jpg

pampe
11-15-2003, 04:13 PM
OH, Z, I am liking this a lot

Question: when I do an imprimatura.....it should be fairly thin, no?

Matt Sammekull
11-15-2003, 05:04 PM
Zar, - I hope you don't mind me stepping in with my enormous feet and answering Pampe's question?

pampe, the imprimatura is often applied with the consistency of water color, - very running, or completely dry, in which case you rub it in.

But I think it's important that you are sure your canvas is in the state you desire before applying the imprimatura. I mean, if you want a smooth surface, go ahead with some gesso before toning the canvas.

I personally always ground/gesso (but bot with real "gesso") my ready primed canvases on or two times, to sort of fill up the tiny holes of the linen structure, then I use a heavily thinned out mixture of either a neutral grey or a warm Burnt Sienna one. This is the only stage in my process in which I use turpentine.

//matt

Zarathustra
11-15-2003, 05:19 PM
No problem Matt - saves energy on my fingers. :)

On the eye close up, you'll probably notice some vertical marks. Because it was on paper, I didn't spend very long sanding my gesso, and given it was applied with a fairly coarse brush, it has left a few brush marks. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

Johnnie
11-15-2003, 07:50 PM
Hey Z

Did you just use gesso or did you use a form of modeling paste also to fill up the weave. If you did use a form of paste what make.?

Im not sure what modeling paste to use and also what gesso to use. I am going to either use ply like doorskin or masonite.
Any ideas on that?

Johnnie

palob
11-18-2003, 02:19 AM
It is going really nice! :clap:
I have one question: visible umber (e.g. in face) is caused by transparent layer over it or because it was not overpainted? It is something I like much and Antonov says it is because of transparency and gets better after time. And because I am "right before" (actually 2-3 weeks away :)) dead underlayer I would like to be sure how it can be achieved.

Thanks,
Pavol

Biki
11-18-2003, 02:22 AM
I am just popping in here to bring this back to the top.

I don't want it to get buried & miss something.

I am so interested in watching this.

Zarathustra
11-18-2003, 07:59 AM
Johnnie - I used gesso. The finish depends on your personal style and preference. If you want something very 'flat', then you can use rabbit skin glue to fill the weave and then gesso over that (saves on using too much gesso), or just multiple coats of gesso, sanded between layers. I use Lacaux gesso which dries quickly and sands to a smooth finish. Bare in mind smooth finishes don't take paint so well in the earlier applications.

Palob - it's a result of the paint's transparency, though I did not bother painting the little fastening things on the dress. Just paint on the "dead" layer fairly thinly. If you then find you need more paint during this process, you can always let it dry and reapply it.

Thanks Biki. I don't think it's going anywhere. ;) Glad it's of interest.

Classical Vince
11-20-2003, 01:13 AM
Hey Z. Still following along, youre doing a great job. I am noticing that you are building the value structure of the coat *before* adding the detail - lookin' good. Youre working the fabric forms out well.

I think this one deserves better than a paper ground ;) but you mentioned you were going to paint this again larger. What size do you have in mind?

arlene
11-20-2003, 01:22 AM
yea inquiring minds want to know

Zarathustra
11-20-2003, 03:25 AM
Hi Vince,

It seemed the best way to do the dress - any details at this stage would have vanished by now. :) I was thinking of trying to glaze it like vemeer, and paint it first in its local colour and then adding the highlights and shading (though some of the underpainting will represent the tone). I don't know how it's going to pan out as I don't have a great deal of experience in glazing.

The larger will be 32" by 40", which is by far the largest size I've ever worked on.

Zarathustra
11-24-2003, 08:37 AM
This is the colour stage part 1. I didn't really want to post it until I'd completed the colour and added the fine details back in, but in the interests of sharing all steps, here it is at present.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-stage4.jpg

I chose a limited palette of yellow ochre, naples yellow and medium cad red, and used french ultramarine for the dress colour. The background totally deviated from the thin Flemish way of painting, but I was looking for something a little different, and spontaneous - still needs a little work where it appears to come out of the crown of the head.
In the next step, I shall fix the colours, and glaze more colour (the underpainting is particularly prominent on the lower face where I didn't spend much time working on it), amend the wonky eyebrow, and add the fine details to mouth nose and eyes, and lastly, the intricate details that belong on the dress..
I'm hoping the end result will polish it off.
Incidentally I should add, that my limited palette does not match the skin tones I am seeing; however, providing I keep the values, and harmony, I don't think it matters.
By the time I complete this painting, I will almost have been painting for one year, and I can't think of a better medium!

palob
11-24-2003, 08:49 AM
Hi, it is very nice!
So are you happy with flemish technique? Do will use it in the feature? Could you state your feelings how it helped you and what "special effects" you can see as result which "is not possible" to be done by conventional technique?

Lot of questions, I hope some will be answered :). Thanks.

Pavol

Zarathustra
11-24-2003, 09:22 AM
Hi Pavol. I still have a way to go with this painting, but yes, I am happy with the techniques, although I couldn't say I have stringently stuck by them - a few changes in palette; rushed drying times (though I am using alkyds); not rendering a stage to completion before moving on etc. etc..
The 'dead' layer seems to be working, but to see its effects you really need to see the acutal painting. It can be a little easy to go too opaque with the paint and cover up what went beneath it, and so sometimes I feel there is a lot of 'wasted' time in a painting like this.
The eyes are something I've continually worked on throughout the stages. I'm after a deep and glassy look if possible.

palob
11-24-2003, 09:35 AM
Hey, I am glad you like it. I hope, I will do my dead layer this weekend (started to get rushing, only 2 weeks of drying :)) so hopefully I see for myself how nice effect it does.

Pavol

Zarathustra
11-24-2003, 09:49 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing it Pavol. ;)

Classical Vince
11-24-2003, 05:35 PM
Keep em comin Gavin. I imagine you have to work by seeing beyond the colors in front of you since it is a cumultive process that produces the final colors.

I wouldnt say its wasted time Gavin, you are solidifying your knowledge of the form everytime you paint it. I would think it might have a general effect of refinement in your study.

Eugene Veszely
11-25-2003, 10:06 AM
Ah, I found an update :)

palette
11-26-2003, 05:09 AM
Hi all,

Have been browsing this forum in the shadows and thought I ought to tell you how interesting it is.

I have been trying to adapt the Flemish technique to acrylics without much success so I really enjoyed the link.

http://www.artpapa.com/oil-painting-lesson-1/index.html

This is another link to a site, but more particularly a lesson, on the Flemish way - but be warned - the man is a purist :)

Ant Carlos
11-26-2003, 10:35 AM
Z,

I'll post my (personal) tech comments about the Flemish way and I hope it helps you on finding how to adapt it to your style.

1- The imprimatura is just a way to tone your canvas and ground it for the next layers of oil paint to come. It doesn't necessarily have to be of one specific color, but it helps if it's neutral enough - that's why pale olive looks good. If you have any remains of paint in your palette from a previous painting and are about to scrape it out to clean the palette before you start a new work, just mix them all and use it for the imprimatura of the new work, together with some varnish (polimerized) and solvent. The result is usually a neutral brown/green, depending on your palette, and works well. Then, after that you clean your palette and add the new paint.

2- The umber under-painting should help you to define the composition and values. Raw umber is better, IMO. Don't need to add any detail, just "guide lines" and shades for drapery and hair, for example. Use siccative, that will allow you to resume your work in the next day.

3- The "dead underlayer" can be improved to a point where you can define color temperature. It doesn't have to be "dead" bluish all around. Each area will ask for a different tone and you can find out which are the ones that help you for when the colors come. I prefer to use green for the flesh, greener (warmer) for tanned skin and bluer (colder) for pale skin, varying from green to blue in the same portrait, depending on what areas are warmer or cooler. For blonde hair I use purple, also varying from grey to red-brown. It's personal and I think you'll end finding what suits you better. Don't need to add details just yet (I think you used too much details in your dead underlayer, what may lead to undesired sharp edges in the final stages).

That's it. Like I said, these are my technical and personal comments. May work for me and not for many others, but I wanted to share it with you.

Good luck on your portrait. I'm following with interest :)

Ant

Zarathustra
11-26-2003, 02:55 PM
palette - acrylics are really a different kettle of fish; granted, you can glaze, but it is of a different nature to oils.

Hi Ant. Thanks for replying; I've seen the few paintings you've posted here on wetcanvas in the recent past, and you have quite a talent!
Colour temperature in the dead layer was one of my mistakes... I have virtually no knowledge of colour theory, which doesn't help, and I particularly come undone with colour in shadows - especially when trying to keep some of the warmth and chroma, instead of painting it cold or like mud. Although today's artists use colour like ultramarine in the shadows, some of the old masters didn't even use this... the umber layer formed a lot of their shadow, and cast the illusion of being more colourful than it was. You need only look at the work of Anders Zorn.

Zarathustra
11-28-2003, 01:15 PM
Still a way to go, but I added more colour. Need to work the colour a little, add some more details, improve the shadows that make the symmetry look a little strange at present, make the areas of the face that look 'flat' more rounded and eventually I will get round to completing the dress. Should be fun!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-stage5.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Nov-2003/9583-leanne-stage5-1.jpg

I bought some stand oil yesterday, and tried it for the first time - I was expecting a liquin type consistency, but it is very much like golden syrup!

Biki
11-28-2003, 02:14 PM
I am really enjoying this Z - and learning a lot along the way.

Ant - thanks for posting that info. I had read this before & was just trying to find it when this popped in. I am still very confused about the whens & whys of warm & cold.
I guess it will click one day.


biki

palob
12-01-2003, 02:31 AM
Zarathustra, I cannot imagine, how the real painting is going to look when seeing your study! :clap: :clap:
I like the eyes most.

Pavol

Eugene Veszely
12-01-2003, 05:00 AM
I have read that you don't want cool shadows on female faces .....or otherwise it makes them look like they have a 5 o'clock shadow ;)

laudesan
04-26-2004, 08:07 AM
What happened to this wip???

Did you finish it??

I was soooo enjoying the lesson you were giving us..:)

Zarathustra
04-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Apologies Laudesan, I often reach a near-completion stage and never actually finish my paintings, I don't know why. I worked the dress a little more some time ago, but haven't finished the face yet.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2004/9583-leanne-stage-dress.jpg

loop
04-26-2004, 02:36 PM
hey Z, this is great I really like the dress details... spot on..

I just had to laugh, this is the flemish technique.... at speed ?? I think your right on track fo the regular flemish technique :D .. but hey , you can't rush a painting. I am sometimes in the basement looking at my gallery of unfinished paintings and wonder why I never finish either, so I grabbed an old orphan and gave it a little loving, but it's still not done :eek:

Zarathustra
04-26-2004, 06:41 PM
Flemish Technique at Speed - it's a joke isn't it! :D I could have finished it very quickly, but I don't know if it's pyschological or a lack of patience; I rarely finish my paintings or drawings, I guess I'm always itching to start something new.

Will your orphan reach completion in 2004?

laudesan
04-27-2004, 12:10 AM
Gosh I love the detail on the dress, fabulous!! :clap:

palob
04-27-2004, 02:46 AM
Z, you are really challenge oriented. After challenge diminishes, your interest does similar thing. There are lot of us like you ;).
But you should finish this one. That dress looks fabulous. I would probably never started something such complicated.

Go for it!
Pavol

Zarathustra
04-27-2004, 03:52 AM
Thanks laudesan and Pavol.

Pavol, yes I'm quite sure I'm not alone. :) Just recently I feel I haven't the time to sit down and paint, and I'm not sure if it is psychological or if I really do need to procrastinate. I used to pop into wetcanvas on a daily basis, and now I'm lucky to poke my head around the corner once or twice a week.... I'm sure the motivation will come back soon enough.

palob
04-27-2004, 04:04 AM
I'm sure the motivation will come back soon enough.
I am sure it will too!

Pavol

chandlerjr
04-28-2004, 12:49 AM
Zarathustra,
If I had half of your talent, I would be painting all the time. Your "Flemish Technique at Speed " should have been done on canvas--it is a master piece and should be finished.
Larry C.

Thanks laudesan and Pavol.

Pavol, yes I'm quite sure I'm not alone. :) Just recently I feel I haven't the time to sit down and paint, and I'm not sure if it is psychological or if I really do need to procrastinate. I used to pop into wetcanvas on a daily basis, and now I'm lucky to poke my head around the corner once or twice a week.... I'm sure the motivation will come back soon enough.

Eugene Veszely
04-28-2004, 06:03 AM
Apologies Laudesan, I often reach a near-completion stage and never actually finish my paintings, I don't know why.

Typical avoidance behavior....if you never finish it you have an excuse for it not being "perfect" !! :)

I do it too.

Zarathustra
04-28-2004, 07:24 AM
Thanks Pavol, and thank you Larry. ;)

Hi Chameleon, no it's not avoidance - I'm the same when it comes to reading books, I'll read half a book or three-quarters of a book and not finish it. :)

laudesan
04-28-2004, 07:37 AM
BUT, you aaaaaaaaaare working on the painting now?????????? right??????? :evil: :D

dcorc
04-28-2004, 07:50 AM
Z, 1cham - I also tend to do the same - I think that partly it is avoidance of finalising and being "pinned down" (I tinkered on with my thesis for months, for example) - but also, partly boredom kicking in because one has "solved" whatever the challenges and problems of the particular task were, and what remains to complete it is merely drudgery - this goes along with creativity, I think.

There is a life-lesson here though, my friends, as it may go some way towards explaining why none of us are millionaires (I know for certain I'm not, anyway :) ) - as success is just as much about perseverance as it is about talent and creativity (I'm starting to sound like Larry S ! :p )

Dave

Gareth
04-29-2004, 08:47 AM
I'm the same when it comes to reading books, I'll read half a book or three-quarters of a book and not finish it.

You ought to try reading a book on painting technique all the way to the end, it might help you finish your paintings. :evil:

Eugene Veszely
04-29-2004, 12:24 PM
Z, 1cham - I also tend to do the same - I think that partly it is avoidance of finalising and being "pinned down" (I tinkered on with my thesis for months, for example) - but also, partly boredom kicking in because one has "solved" whatever the challenges and problems of the particular task were, and what remains to complete it is merely drudgery - this goes along with creativity, I think.

There is a life-lesson here though, my friends, as it may go some way towards explaining why none of us are millionaires (I know for certain I'm not, anyway :) ) - as success is just as much about perseverance as it is about talent and creativity (I'm starting to sound like Larry S ! :p )

Dave

I avoid finishing things too ..... :rolleyes: :)

Nothing wrong with sounding like Larry S ;)

Zarathustra
04-29-2004, 04:07 PM
It's just if you never get to finish anything you ......

guillot
04-29-2004, 06:37 PM
Thanks laudesan and Pavol.

Pavol, yes I'm quite sure I'm not alone. :) Just recently I feel I haven't the time to sit down and paint, and I'm not sure if it is psychological or if I really do need to procrastinate. I used to pop into wetcanvas on a daily basis, and now I'm lucky to poke my head around the corner once or twice a week.... I'm sure the motivation will come back soon enough.

No - you are not alone :) Seems to be going around like the flu right now. Maybe it was that Friedrich? LOL I've only just drawn the three graces out, can't seem to get past that! Looks like we are in the same boat, but I would love to see you finish this one Gavin - it's a very nice piece.

Sometimes when I sit something aside (and I have some sitting too that I've never finished) - it only takes a little time to figure out WHY I sat it aside and usually it's because I eventually notice, as I progress in learning that eventhough my conscious was unaware of a problem at the time but couldn't figure out how to pick it back up -now I see problems in those that I did sit aside. It must be a subliminal thing :D But - I see nothing wrong with your work Gavin - maybe it's something personal inside you that's not coming out in some of your paintings and subliminally - you sit them aside like I do, LOL, "procrastinating" if you will...., but unable to get motivated about it again until eventually you say "AH HA ..... ".

Been missing you!! :)

Tina

pjewell
06-19-2007, 04:17 PM
Please, I have got to see more... I do understand putting something aside, but this is the most interesting thing I have ever seen.

Zarathustra
06-19-2007, 04:27 PM
Thanks Pjewell, I'm flattered. Unfortunately 3 or 4 years on, it would be hard to find the motivation without redoing the entire thing from scratch. I feel my drawing skills have improved since that time, and I'd be highly critical of my previous efforts in wanting to finish it, without returning to the initial drawing stage! Since I hit the big 3-0 (shhhhhhhh) recently, I have thought about doing a self-portrait as a keep sake before I'm old, wrinkly and grey, so if I do, I might well give this technique another try.

Anita Murphy
06-20-2007, 02:11 AM
Gavin - firstly for those of us well over the big 3-0, it gets better!
This is a great thread - such a shame you didn't finish it. Really a lovely portrait!

Zarathustra
06-20-2007, 04:09 AM
Awww, thanks Anita! I do hope so! Life beings at 30 right? :)

pjewell
06-21-2007, 02:57 PM
I can't wait for your Flemish technique at speed self-portrait! I am currently working on one myself except not at speed. I just got my drawing put on canvas. I will post it here when I get a chance. Actually it is a drawing of my daughter and me.

Take care and keep it arty,