2003 baseball playoffs - A series

[I'm Not Bob]

MY IMAGE(S):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/11-07-2003/24611_priorwebsiteimage.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/11-07-2003/24611_BECKETwebsiteimage.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/11-07-2003/24611_PEDROwebsiteimage.jpg


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: 2003 baseball playoffs - A series
Year Created: 2003
Medium: Colored Pencil
Surface: Paper
Dimension: approx 8
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
This is a series I am working on featuring the dominant pitcher from each of the eight 2003 basball plaoffs.

Three down and five to go.


MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
I am working on this series in hopes of solisiting further work. I am currently very happy with the results, but then again, I may be a little biased.

What do you think??? Is the quality worthy for public consumption??? Do I have a snowballs chance??? Is it six of this or a half dozen of that???

[Paintonbrush]

Your facial expressions are what make these work so well.
My favorite is the first one because of the clarity and color depth.
They are all just fantastic. I cannot think of a bad thing to say.

[jerryW]

the windups are well crafted.
the three pieces show a kind of
indecision in how you want to make each piece into a totality, the same kind of totality.
hyperaccurate with clear backgrounds
loose or
accurate with hazy backgrounds.
I think if you focus on the gesture, supporting aspects of actual background will manifest from your use of the medium.
even the pencil can be made to evoke your expression.
that you have already made clear.
great work.
goodluck in simplifying and finding the "happy medium"

[Spyderbabe]

I prefer the second style


Is the quality worthy for public consumption???

Yes!

[HRobinson]

I thought Jerrys appraisal was also well done and on target but my concern with works like these comes in the form of a question. Why wouldn't people just opt out for the photographs? I can appreciate the skill you have shown in their rendering but where's the art?

Maybe the fact that these have been commercialized already is another of my concerns. I believe that if you would take the foo foo Cubs logo off the first pic, the result would be a much better work. The contortions would look feasible only for a pitcher and that's what I enjoyed. The slightly overdone right hand enhanced its impact as well. (There's no reason that that couldn't be a practice jersey, etc. Remember also that these guys will, when traded, become a confusing lot.)

You seem like a very gifted painter... what more is there?

-Harry

[roberj]

Works for me. As a former baseball addict, I can tell you that the team logos are needed if your intended audience is baseball fans. Since fans are the most likely patrons for this type of art, I think they are spot on. Reminds me of Watts' work. The only thing that holds you back is lack of name recognition. In other words the work should sell on the quality, but it wont get the big bucks unless your name is well known. Of course, some fans are rabid enough that I could be wrong. Another thing is that if you are happy working in a narrow field, it is easier to build a reputation. These would be good candidates for a print series, I could see them sold as a set of 5x7's in two matted frames, National and American looking good under glass. Yeah, I could see that.


I am Bob

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by Paintonbrush
Your facial expressions are what make these work so well.
My favorite is the first one because of the clarity and color depth.
They are all just fantastic. I cannot think of a bad thing to say.

Hi Paint,

Thanks for the kind words.

I also love the face on the first one. I also like this background over the other two.

As far as the expressions go, I am concerned with showing to much of the line work in the flesh tones. I feel that my application of the pencil is a bit heavy handed making for a distressed texture. I believe that this technique may be suitable for an action scene, but not for a posed portrait.

Thanks again for your input.

[impressionist2]

Dear Not Bob, In 1997, I was commissioned by the New York Yankee foundation to paint Don Mattinglys portrait for his retirement dinner in NYC. My husband and son got to go with me, and since it was my son's birthday as well, and we met all the players...................well, he said it was the best time of his life! ( this ofcourse, was before the wife and kiddies came along ):D

Anyway, I had permission from the Yankees to paint six of their players, which I did, and at a private NY Yankee cocktail party, got them to sign my paintings ( small pastels).

I did sell them after giving two to my son.

But, and I hate to pour rain on your parade..........................But,...............the Team Franchise that you are painting, Owns the Rights to the lettering on the hat and shirts you are representing.
In other words, legally, without permission, you cannot represent their logo without signed consent.

Best bet for anyone who wants to pursue this is to talk to the sports stores that sell the artists who paint the players. Also, the paintings that sell, are usually whole action scenes of a dramatic event in sports history.

Good luck.

Renee

I like your paintings very much, and agree about the great expressions!

The lettering was the brainchild of management:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2003/4924-Mattingly.jpg

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by jerryW
the windups are well crafted.
the three pieces show a kind of
indecision in how you want to make each piece into a totality, the same kind of totality.
hyperaccurate with clear backgrounds
loose or
accurate with hazy backgrounds.
I think if you focus on the gesture, supporting aspects of actual background will manifest from your use of the medium.
even the pencil can be made to evoke your expression.
that you have already made clear.
great work.
goodluck in simplifying and finding the "happy medium"

Your comments in regard to the background are well founded. I am fairly happy with all three "pitchers", it is the background that has given me the most heartburn. In retrospect, I should have used a similar treatment for the background. I actually like the first background best, the second second and the third last.

I also found that for my best work to show through, the face needs to be about the size of the first drawing or larger. As the face gets smaller it gets increasingly harder for me to render properly.

If I were to do these over, I would make sure that the faces in the second two attempts were larger and the backgrounds were similar to the first attempt.

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by HRobinson
I thought Jerrys appraisal was also well done and on target but my concern with works like these comes in the form of a question. Why wouldn't people just opt out for the photographs? I can appreciate the skill you have shown in their rendering but where's the art?

SNIP....

You seem like a very gifted painter... what more is there?

-Harry

Hi Harry,

After reading your comments, I did not know if I should laugh or cry... Be happy or sad...

Maybe I am confused. I was attempting to make the images as realistic as possible while at the same time letting the inherent characteristics of the media come through (meaning all of the fine line work and over layering of color to achieve subtle tonal changes). If I am successful at this, the drawing should give the impression of a photograph but also a kind of surrealistic feel. The response I would love to get is "Thats NOT a photo.... is it???"

Is your objection in the fact that they look to much like a photograph??? For it to be art, the image has to be somewhat different than that which can be captured by a camera.

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by roberj
Works for me. As a former baseball addict, I can tell you that the team logos are needed if your intended audience is baseball fans. Since fans are the most likely patrons for this type of art, I think they are spot on. Reminds me of Watts' work. The only thing that holds you back is lack of name recognition. In other words the work should sell on the quality, but it wont get the big bucks unless your name is well known. Of course, some fans are rabid enough that I could be wrong. Another thing is that if you are happy working in a narrow field, it is easier to build a reputation. These would be good candidates for a print series, I could see them sold as a set of 5x7's in two matted frames, National and American looking good under glass. Yeah, I could see that.


I am Bob

Hi Bob,

Thank you for the very nice compliment.

As far as the team logo goes, I love each and every one of them. I kind of regret the pose I chose for Pedro in that it is from behind, loosing the logo on his chest.

I will have to do some research in regard to this Watts fellow. Maybe it is just me, but the name does not ring any bells.

As far as working in a narrow field, I kind of like sports with baseball being my favorite. I would love (and jump at) the opportunity to work in that field.

As far as a series, I would envision a 16 x 20 frame with an 8 x 8 image of the player and a 3 x 8 drawing of the home stadium located under the player.

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by impressionist2
SNIP....

But, and I hate to pour rain on your parade..........................But,...............the Team Franchise that you are painting, Owns the Rights to the lettering on the hat and shirts you are representing.
In other words, legally, without permission, you cannot represent their logo without signed consent.

Best bet for anyone who wants to pursue this is to talk to the sports stores that sell the artists who paint the players. Also, the paintings that sell, are usually whole action scenes of a dramatic event in sports history.

Good luck.

Renee

I like your paintings very much, and agree about the great expressions!

SNIP...

Hi Renee,

Thanks for your concern over the copy-write thing. I was not intending to actually sell these drawings, just use them as examples my work. I do not know all that much about copy-write law, but I believe that I can draw (and exhibit) just about anything I wish as long as I do not put the copy protected item up for sale.

Is this correct???

I am preparing a package that I intend to send off to all the major league teams in an attempt to solicit a commission. I was going to include a print of the above drawings with some recommendations for a series of prints. I am hoping to catch someone's eye and build my reputation on this humble beginning.

Also, in regard to great sports moments, I was thinking it would be a nice idea to draw a close up detail of the key figure in the event and then an overview of the event showing the entire stadium. Maybe even an intermediate shot (or two) if I wished to show some aspect or detail that was not visible in the other images.

Well hopefully I will be able to generate some interest. Any prayers or kind thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by Spyderbabe
I prefer the second style


Thanks spyderbabe,

In the second style I was trying to achieve a sense of motion. The background in the reference photo was slightly out of focus in all directions. I made all of the background lines horizontal and blurred them similar to what you would achieve if the camera was moving horizontally with a fast moving object (like a race car or speedboat). I kind of like the effect, but maybe the picture is a bit to busy. I am still a bit undecided about the overall effect.

[impressionist2]

Originally posted by I'm Not Bob


Hi Renee,

Thanks for your concern over the copy-write thing. I was not intending to actually sell these drawings, just use them as examples my work. I do not know all that much about copy-write law, but I believe that I can draw (and exhibit) just about anything I wish as long as I do not put the copy protected item up for sale.

Is this correct???

I am preparing a package that I intend to send off to all the major league teams in an attempt to solicit a commission. I was going to include a print of the above drawings with some recommendations for a series of prints. I am hoping to catch someone's eye and build my reputation on this humble beginning.

Also, in regard to great sports moments, I was thinking it would be a nice idea to draw a close up detail of the key figure in the event and then an overview of the event showing the entire stadium. Maybe even an intermediate shot (or two) if I wished to show some aspect or detail that was not visible in the other images.

Well hopefully I will be able to generate some interest. Any prayers or kind thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Not Bob, Sound very good and yes, you are correct. As long as they are not for sale, we can copy and paint anything we want to!

Thinking of the museum copyists now. Actually, I think copyright is lost after 100 years on those.

Anyway, approaching the team is a great idea. Best of luck.

Btw, the most appreciative and nicest recipient of my paintings was Marianno Rivera.

Renee

[Nicolart]

:eek: BOB:eek: ...This is UNBELIEVABLY BREATHTAKING:clap:

:clap: WOW!!!:clap:

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by impressionist2
SNIP....

Btw, the most appreciative and nicest recipient of my paintings was Marianno Rivera.

Renee

Hi Renee,

So, Marianno was most appreciative. Hhuummmm.... From that comment are we to assume that there were those who were not so appreciative or nice??? :eek:

Enquiring mind want to know. :)

[Spyderbabe]

In the second style I was trying to achieve a sense of motion. The background in the reference photo was slightly out of focus in all directions. I made all of the background lines horizontal and blurred them similar to what you would achieve if the camera was moving horizontally with a fast moving object (like a race car or speedboat). I kind of like the effect, but maybe the picture is a bit to busy. I am still a bit undecided about the overall effect.

I think you nailed it.... nice effect.
When you are sending out your work why not send it to colleges too?

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by Spyderbabe


I think you nailed it.... nice effect.
When you are sending out your work why not send it to colleges too?

Thanks again Spyderbabe,

Interesting..... Why send the info to colleges??? Do they commission art on occasion???

[impressionist2]

Originally posted by I'm Not Bob


Hi Renee,

So, Marianno was most appreciative. Hhuummmm.... From that comment are we to assume that there were those who were not so appreciative or nice??? :eek:

Enquiring mind want to know. :)


Not Bob, Hahahaha, yes you got that quick enough. Let's just say there was one player, retired now, that lives up to his grumpy image! ;) Most of them were cordial. It was an evening of "the players must show up" for the Yankee Foundation, one of the areas leading charitites. We were seated ( guests) at a table at the dinner that cost the contributor $10,000. Ten feet in front of us, sat the entire team.

Marianno was just Extra nice, as well as the most fantastic and controlled closer.

He made a big fuss over my painting of him, while signing it. Always nice for an artist to hear.

Jeter was great, as was Wade Boggs and Strawberry was there too, pre-troubles and friendly. Mattingly was the star of the evening and I've got pictures around here somewhere of me, Mattingly and the portrait all together. Mayor Guiliani made the presentation.

Renee

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by roberj
SNIP...

Reminds me of Watts' work.

SNIP...

Well I just found Tom Watts web site. He has done some really incredible work. I am touched that you would consider my work similar to his in any way, shape or form.

This was a compliment that I have not, as of yet, earned, but will always remember, with a smile.

Thank you very much.

[Spyderbabe]

I ws thinking of college baseball teams - don't they have nationally recognized athletes? I'm more familiar with football and the national attention paid to Heisman trophy winners etc.... Basically just trying to think of other venues for your beautiful work.

[Helen Zapata]

These are so cool (and you ARE Bob! I looked! :D)

My favorite is the first one. But they are all terrific! I always thought it would be fun to paint sports figures. I have a secret yen to do basketball players.

My only nit is the right arm of the last player. It looks like his poor little wrist has dwindled away to nothing. Gives it a distorted look.

Renee... you are sumpin' else, girl!

Helen

[mcknight]

Great rendering. I had no idea you could get something to realistic from pencils.

[roberj]

I thought I would jump back in. Helen brought up a point that I wasnt going to mention. The thinning of the wrists she sees is a result of the photo this painting was based on. I would prefer that the wrist was fleshed out to actual dimension. This was also touched on indirectly in an earlier post. When the pitchers arm is in motion, the camera blurs, leaving the resulting image thinner than it actually is. Only the area that is in the space for the whole exposure looks sharp. If going for true "photo" likeness, the wrist has to narrow, I'm not really a fan of photo likeness and would prefer either drawing to real perspective or blurring the edges, either way the drawing is still correct.


Bob

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by zapata
These are so cool (and you ARE Bob! I looked! :D)

My favorite is the first one. But they are all terrific! I always thought it would be fun to paint sports figures. I have a secret yen to do basketball players.

My only nit is the right arm of the last player. It looks like his poor little wrist has dwindled away to nothing. Gives it a distorted look.

Renee... you are sumpin' else, girl!

Helen

Hi Hellen,

Yes I admit it. I am Bob.... But only in a most ethereal way. :confused:

As for his right arm. Yes it looks very thin, but Pedro is a very thin guy and the view catches his wrist straight across the thinnest part.

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by mcknight
Great rendering. I had no idea you could get something to realistic from pencils.

Actually, I did not think so either. I only just started working with colored pencils in April, maybe May. So that gives me a strong 8 months experience with the media. I joined Wet Canvas in July. Before that I worked mostly in acrylic. Now I believe that I have found a medium I am somewhat (for lack of a better word) proficient at. Although I will never use colored pencil for a really large piece (the largest I would venture to produce at this point would be about 13 x 19 or so). I really enjoy the incredible amount of detail you can generate.

This is the closest I have ever come, to being able to generate, something, that approaches, true realistic detail.

I recommend that everyone give it a try (start with something on the small side maybe 3 x 5 or 5 x 7).

[I'm Not Bob]

Originally posted by roberj
I thought I would jump back in. Helen brought up a point that I wasnt going to mention. The thinning of the wrists she sees is a result of the photo this painting was based on. I would prefer that the wrist was fleshed out to actual dimension. This was also touched on indirectly in an earlier post. When the pitchers arm is in motion, the camera blurs, leaving the resulting image thinner than it actually is. Only the area that is in the space for the whole exposure looks sharp. If going for true "photo" likeness, the wrist has to narrow, I'm not really a fan of photo likeness and would prefer either drawing to real perspective or blurring the edges, either way the drawing is still correct.


Bob

Hi Bob,

You know, I never thought of image distortion of photographs being caused in the way you describe. I can see the logic behind it, but if this were the case, I imagine that I would see a blurring of the arm in the ref photo. I looked very closely at the photo, and see no sign of motion blurring.

I know Pedro is close to being a stick figure in real life. Could it be that he is just that skinny????