Help with palm tree in CP please!

[SilverFeather]

Hi :)
I had wanted to draw this palm tree in CP for a while but finally got a photo cropped the way I like it.
I "think" I want to do this drawing with a limited palette and wondered if any of you could give me some advise on getting started.
This is really the first CP drawing that I've attempted without any set rules to follow... ya know...projects, etc.
I don't know which two colors to choose for the limited palette. .:confused: complimentaries, monochrome...what would look best? What about the background? There's not much showing but it's gray...yuck!

I have done a pencil sketch onto off-white Stonehenge paper approx. 8"x11" which I can post later if I need to. (Don't have my camera here at the moment)

Any ideas, comments, advise, etc. would be greatly appreciated to help me get some color going here!

Thanks so much in advance!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2003/22918-palm.jpg

[Asher]

From your comments it looks like you haven't done the RYB challenge. This picture would seem to be ideal for that, if you're willing to go to a third color.

Sanford

[arlene]

I like Sanford's idea of doing the r/y/b project with this...I do think that you shouldn't have the leaf crossing the stem...and maybe make the background a more interesting color...here i showed you both

[SilverFeather]

Sanford,
Eeeek! Another project!!
:D Just kidding...I enjoy them; I've just been putting that one off. I don't mind adding one more color. How much more confused can one little color make me?:rolleyes:

Okay, there are soooo many greens in this picture and I don't even get a green pencil.
Would I put yellows where it's lightest and blue on the darker leaves first?

Wow Arlene! That looks so much better... and I thought I liked it the way I had photographed it. How do you always find a way to make things better than I ever think they can be!!!
When I looked at it I said, "How'd she get that tree trunk from behind that leaf?" My son said, "Mom she just copied it from above and pasted it there! Duh!" Well I'm not the computer artist so I didn't know. 'scuse me :o

Oh Arlene, how much longer until we get to know about the "secret project"? :D

Thanks so much guys! I guess I ask too many questions but I'm really determined to get this right. I'm so glad I decided to try CP!
I'll get started on it soon and post my progress.

Carol:)

[Asher]

You were probably only asking a rhetorical question - however, you're best bet would be to experiment with yellow first and then blue first and varying the pressure of each color to come up with a variety of greens. You may even need the red added, in some cases. How's that for a simple answer? :D

Sanford

[arlene]

Originally posted by Asher
How's that for a simple answer? :D

Sanford

and a good one...

your son was funny...but correct. LOL...hey 2 years ago i couldn't even get photoshop to make size corrections.

[SilverFeather]

Sanford,
It was somewhat a rhetorical question. So few colors and so much confusion for a beginner!!!
Yes it is a good answer tho'. That's what I usually do...experiment a lot on other paper before going on the real drawing.

Arlene, You mean there's hope for me yet with the photo editors?
:confused: All I do so far is adjust contrast and resize!!

Thank you both...I must get to the drawing now before that hammer shows up!!

Carol:)

[SilverFeather]

Okay, here's what I've done so far using RYB.
I think this is the worst digital photo I've ever taken. It looks awful on the screen and it's even crooked.
Hope you can tell a little about it. Really, it looks better than this!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Nov-2003/22918-palmtree1.jpg

These leaves are so confusing, all crossed!
I'm putting the true blue where the darkest green should be and I've done a layer of Process Red and one of True Blue on the background.

Any opinions/suggestions?

Thanks,
Carol

[Asher]

It looks like a great start, Carol. It's going to be beautiful.

Whenever I started to get confused while doing the Chrysanthemum I would just slow down and concentrate on one small part at a time.

Sanford

[arlene]

Originally posted by Asher
It looks like a great start, Carol. It's going to be beautiful.

Whenever I started to get confused while doing the Chrysanthemum I would just slow down and concentrate on one small part at a time.

Sanford

geeeeeze sanford you're full of good advice... LOL

you're off to a great start...keep going.

[SilverFeather]

Just thought I'd post this while I had a new photo of it. Didn't want you all to think I had abandoned this one. I did a little work on it while I was waiting for more pix of Speedy.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2004/22918-palmtree1204.jpg

Sanford, concentrating on one section at a time really helped on this one. Thanks for the suggestion!
Lots more to go but I really like this red/yellow/blue palette!

[arlene]

it's looking good so far, but let's get it finished!

[gnu]

doing great!! man that Arlene's a slave driver..:rolleyes: :D
Still, will be nice to see the next installment..trust your Holiday break is going well..
Gill

[SilverFeather]

Thanks Gill!
Doesn't she keep us on our toes! :cat:
The holidays kept me busy but have been nice. That's why I'm not done with all my drawings yet ;)

I'm really happy with all the greens I'm getting on these leaves, but I have no idea how to get that tan color on the tree trunk with only red, yellow and blue!!! So I'm sort of stuck here.
Anyone have any ideas?

[kimo]

Carol - good going so far!!


And yes - Arlene is quite the slavedriver! But we wouldn't want her any other way. ;)

As for your question about the color of the trunk. Okay, think about it. Tan is basically a tint of brown, correct? So . . . what makes brown. Orange and black. Now, you only have 3 colors to work with, red, yellow and blue. So . . . think about this . . . red, yellow and blue, when combined, will give you a shade of black. So, red and yellow make orange, right? So . . . if you add blue, that will be like adding a shade of black because red, yellow and blue make black, so red and yellow will give you orange and adding blue will start to turn in black but will be brown first. Since this is tan, and not brown, keep is all very light!

I sure hope what I said is correct and makes sense. :D

[SilverFeather]

Thanks Kimo! That makes perfect sense. I think that keeping it light will be very important. I am very heavy handed so that won't be the easiest part. I'll work on it later today.

Here's what I did on the leaves last night. I can't seem to get that deep, rich color that I want like in the ref. photo. I don't want to go too heavy with the last layers but looks like that might be what it takes to get the brighter colors in the lighter greens.
It looks more pale IRL than on this picture.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jan-2004/22918-palmtree20.jpg

Thanks for any comments, advice, etc.:)

[wet]

Carol can relate to tech problems. I can only resize and contrast too and sometimes mess THAT up! I agree with kimo..VERY light hand and I think you will be happy in the end. The leaves are coming along great! Can't wait to see more of the trunk.:D wanda

[pinkrybns]

Originally posted by SilverFeather

Here's what I did on the leaves last night. I can't seem to get that deep, rich color that I want like in the ref. photo. I don't want to go too heavy with the last layers but looks like that might be what it takes to get the brighter colors in the lighter greens.


Just keep adding layers, layers and more layers. Repeat some of the steps you've already done ... that will bring up the color intensity.

As for those pale greens : it doesn't look to me that you've added any blue to the lighest areas ( at least on screen these areas still look mostly yellow) add light, even layers of the blue to the yellow areas. To get that chartreuse green color, you'll have to find the perfect mix of the yellow and blue.

I have to disagree with kimo on what makes brown.
It's more a mix of orange and green to get a clean brown. In paint, if you mix with black, it gets you mostly mud and pretty much holds ture for CP. So for the tan, find a nice mix of orange (red+yellow) and green (blue+yellow) to get that warm brown and then to make it tan, use your white pencil, which you are allowed to do in this project. And a tan shade has more yellow in the "orange" & "green" mix, btw, so it's more like a mix of "yellow-orange-orange" and "yellow-green" plus white to make a nice warm tan.

When I did my RYB project and subsequently many other RYB drawings, I always tested on another piece of paper until I figured out just the right mix of the 3 pencils for whatever color/tint/shade I was trying to achieve. Often it meant repeating a mixing process over and over in the layers in one area/shape....all using the lightest pressure I could and "building it up" to get the richness of color.

And use workable fixative if you have to!

Keep going it'll come out fine, I think :)

~ Judy

[SilverFeather]

Thanks for your ideas Judy. I've experimented alot.
I have finally gotten to work on the Yucca again although it doesn't show much here when compared to my last post.
The thing I'd like some advice with is that I don't really want to get the exact colors as in the reference photo. I love the way the red/pinks, orange yellow, and blue greens are showing in the drawing because of my using the RYB palette. So is it "okay" to make it more colorful and brighter rather than copy the reference exactly?
I feel like I'm asking permission to use my artist's license but just wondered if this is acceptable in the RYB project or if it must be as close a likeness to the ref. photo as possible. I really love the things I'm able to do with these three simple colors!

Also when do you decide that it's time to use more pressure on the final colors?
I'd really like to hear your ideas/thoughts on this.

[pinkrybns]

Thanks for your ideas Judy. I've experimented alot.
I have finally gotten to work on the Yucca again although it doesn't show much here when compared to my last post.
The thing I'd like some advice with is that I don't really want to get the exact colors as in the reference photo. I love the way the red/pinks, orange yellow, and blue greens are showing in the drawing because of my using the RYB palette. So is it "okay" to make it more colorful and brighter rather than copy the reference exactly?
I feel like I'm asking permission to use my artist's license but just wondered if this is acceptable in the RYB project or if it must be as close a likeness to the ref. photo as possible. I really love the things I'm able to do with these three simple colors!

Also when do you decide that it's time to use more pressure on the final colors?
I'd really like to hear your ideas/thoughts on this.

Hi Carol,

Well .... I am NOT the project leader, but IMO you should do what you want to do and you shouldn't have to ask permission to be artistic! Anyway, it will never look exactly like the photo because it's CP and not printer ink or computer pixels, right? ;)

I think you've stayed true to the R, Y, B concept and making this image your own could never be a bad thing. Others may disagree, but that's my opinion.

Deciding when to apply heavy pressure is, of course, a personal thing ... but I do it towards the last few layers - where I want it to be really dark or have the color really saturated.

I think you're doing a fine job on this one, but you still can make your darks darker and punch up those highlights! Here's your piece in greyscale and you can see how much further you can really take this... right now there's still an overall sameness to the values.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Aug-2004/22382-yucca501.jpg

Just a little bit further and it will work! :)

~Judy

[SilverFeather]

Thanks so much Judy!
I think you've stayed true to the R, Y, B concept and making this image your own could never be a bad thing.
That's good to hear. I always feel this pressure to make a copy of the reference and I do NOT want to do that.

Okay, I'm working on the darks and highlights but am having a hard time getting any darker with this mix.

Also, I asked the question in Bob's post but I'll ask here too...
So, Judy, Arlene, anybody...do you have to use the True Blue, Process Red or Raspberry, and Canary Yellow for a painting to be a "true" RYB Palette? Can it be any red, yellow and blue?

I love working with a limited palette and plan to do alot more experimenting with them. I seem to be learning more about values this way.
Maybe because it's closer to B/W that I'm used to and I just get confused when I have 100's of choices of colors! :D
Anyway I appreciate all of your help!

[Adriana Campos]

Carol, this is very interesting to follow. I´m learning with you and all this advices, cause I´m thinking in try something like this or an animal, don´t know yet.
Your palm is looking great, and I agree with Judy, about the freedom to create from the ref picture. The name itself already tells us, it´s for reference, not to limit our imagination. Unless you are doing a portrait , and then the likeness should be a must, you can modify the image to suit your wishes best. That´s what artists do, in my opinion.

[DSmithlady]

I like the look of the trunk. What colors did you combine for that?

[pinkrybns]

Hi Carol,

For the R,Y, B project, you are supposed to stick to just those colors in Prismas ... that's the whole idea of Arlene's project!!!!

Now, after I did the first project I wanted to continue using this R, Y, B mix and when I've done my subsequent R,Y, B pieces I have always stuck to the True Blue, Raspberry and Canary Yellow mix (when using Prismas). I have always been able to get very, very dark values and the lightest of lights... it's a matter of figuring out the right mix of the 3 to get that dark and the right pressure to use. You can only get there by trial and error, because everyone's hand is different. Unfortunately I can't give you a formula because it varies from piece to piece, ref to ref, person to person... if you see what I mean.

However, I have expanded my choices by using the equivilents of these 3 colors in other brands in conjunction with my Prismas. For what I've used in the other brands you can have a look at my 2 threads:
R,Y,B realism (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202444)

R,Y,B cubist style (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202373)

I chose the other brands because of some of their qualities that are different than Prismas, i.e. Derwents are harder so I use them in the underlayers for sharp edges or fine detail. FC's blend out smoothly and I also normally use them as undercolors. It's all about the fun of experimenting when I work.

Again, I used absolutely NO black in any brand chosen - only the 3 primaries plus white.

Hope that helps some, but I think if you continue to explore this way of working with color, you'll come up with your own answers in time. I'm sure of it! :)

~Judy

[SilverFeather]

Dsmithlady, I can't really explain the mix I used on the trunk but here was the advice Judy gave me and it worked beautifully. I did a lot of experimenting first!
So for the tan, find a nice mix of orange (red+yellow) and green (blue+yellow) to get that warm brown and then to make it tan, use your white pencil, which you are allowed to do in this project. And a tan shade has more yellow in the "orange" & "green" mix, btw, so it's more like a mix of "yellow-orange-orange" and "yellow-green" plus white to make a nice warm tan.

Adriana, glad someone can learn along with me. And I agree completely about freedom to create...I want the drawing to be "me" not a copy of a photo. Some people don't agree and would look at the Yucca and say, "theres no red in that plant" but I like it that way!

Judy, thanks again. :) I enjoyed reading those threads and love the drawings you did!! I missed them when my husband was in the hospital. I'll keep playing with the colors and the different brands as well. It's so much fun!