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faminz
04-02-2017, 03:03 AM
Thanks to Don (Napier) for passing on a pencil commission! Youre a gentleman Don!

The chap wants 7 airliners his father flew to be sketched out in simple graphite pencil on 1 meter wide paper! DC-3, Fokker F27, Boeing 737, DC-8, 747, 767 and 777

I bought some super high quality archival paper yesterday and using an initial sketch of the Fokker laid out the arrangement he wants. The one white one is due to one sheet of white paper in the printer!!

Seven planes on one sheet is tricky to arrange.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Apr-2017/1063042-arrangement1.jpg

NeilF92
04-02-2017, 11:03 AM
A bit of a challenge but good fun too I reckon .

gollum
04-02-2017, 09:19 PM
For some unexplainable reason ........ I don't get what you are trying to do :confused:

Chas McHugh
04-03-2017, 03:45 AM
I once completed such a commision and although the customer was happy with it - if I was to do it again, things would be quite different. My advice (born of experience) is to first aquire 7 images that work together as opposed to random aircraft portraits (which I did).

I would choose one aircraft positioned centrally on the page nose on Ie coming directly out of the page. I would then orientate the others with their tails towards the centre so that they are flying out of the page from the centre in an orderly fashion. Scale matters ( and I had everything from a small helicopter to a Shackleton bomber). One thing that did work well is associated signage. Hopefully this persons career included very few airline changes and you may be able to effectively include signage.

Good Luck with it, for it is harder to achieve then it first appears. I'm sure we would all like to see the results.

shadwell
04-03-2017, 04:38 AM
Seven planes on one sheet is tricky to arrange.




find out his favourite one out of all of them then do a large oval framed one with his favourite taking centre stage with the others evenly spaced around the edges

faminz
04-03-2017, 05:59 AM
Thanks for ideas chaps. It's sortof one airline. NAC which became air New Zealand. And the liveries have to match the planes in the years he flew them.
I originally offered the central, on the nose idea too Chas, but the commissioner and his siblings like the arrangement above. The customer is always right I guess. Gollum.. It's for 7 different planes, the Fokker is just a place marker.
I was hoping he could find the pics in his fathers photo collection but no luck as yet. I'll post the chosen pics when I get them.
Luckily the actual work is just simple black and white pencil sketches so no colour at all. Interesting and very specific requirements.

Chas McHugh
04-03-2017, 06:26 AM
Luckily the actual work is just simple black and white pencil sketches so no colour at all

> Stands back - pint of beer in hand - on a nice sunny day - and watches you eat those words! <

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Apr-2017/984204-223131_10150254771608483_4912293_n.jpg

This was my effort:- and I would not do it like this again.

faminz
04-04-2017, 05:32 AM
Yeah it is a bit, um, congested eh?

I take your point that I might be underestimating the sketches but hey in the immortal words of clarkson "how hard could it be" lol

Gray539
04-04-2017, 06:28 PM
Good luck on a fun project, faminz.

faminz
04-10-2017, 02:17 AM
Agreed the arrangement with the commissioner and found seven good photos.

This is progress so far in that Ive traced out 3 of the planes and ready to start the DC-8. Quite tricky as the paper is 600 gsm so even with a light box the outline is VERY rough and I have to practically redraw the detail freehand each time. But so far so good.
We agreed the idea that the 747 would be the larger centrepiece on the bottom row so thanks for that idea!

Easter should give me some time to start the real shading and detail with a selection of graphite pencils.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Apr-2017/1063042-airliners1.jpg

NeilF92
04-10-2017, 05:15 AM
Looks like a good start faminz - hope it goes smoothly for you.

gollum
04-10-2017, 05:48 AM
I wanna see a detailed shot of each drawing as you progress :)

napier
04-10-2017, 08:57 AM
looking good Brett hope all goes well with it. Don

gollum
04-10-2017, 11:08 AM
Just thinking

That last one the DC8/9 should go in the bottom right corner

Everything should point to the middle of the paper

faminz
04-10-2017, 01:53 PM
I hear what you say Gollum but he wanted the 767 and 777 framing the 747.
So on the top 2 point in from the left and the right and on the bottom line 2 point out (left and right).
It's been agreed now so expectations are set!

And thanks for comment Don, appreciated!

faminz
04-11-2017, 04:27 AM
While preparing for this one I found this great book in the library..
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Apr-2017/1063042-image.jpeg

It has some interesting airliner sketches in it..

Apologies if the image is sideways...

RegisR
04-11-2017, 08:19 AM
While preparing for this one I found this great book in the library..
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Apr-2017/1063042-image.jpeg

It has some interesting airliner sketches in it..

Apologies if the image is sideways...


Great looking sketches! The best part is, that they are very much more 'artistic' than 'illustrative'. IMHO, there's a difference between 'Art' and 'Illustration'. One of them shows style, passion and vision. The other is near-photographic perfection and while it's super-accurate, it doesn't have the emotion of the former.

These are just airliners, but the depiction is superb and not boring at all. Thanks for sharing, it was pleasing to see them.

By the way, what is the title of the book and who authored it? I'd like to get a copy!

gollum
04-11-2017, 12:31 PM
These are just airliners

:eek:

Wash your mouth out with soap and water you military fan boy :p

RegisR
04-11-2017, 01:49 PM
:eek:

Wash your mouth out with soap and water you military fan boy :p


True! But the illustrator did a great job of bringing action and drama to the otherwise, flying cattle cars!

:lol:

gollum
04-11-2017, 03:47 PM
flying cattle cars!

:lol:

The Me 323 Gigant was never used as an airliner :smug:

faminz
04-12-2017, 12:49 AM
At the risk of interrupting this little tete a tete here is the book cover.
A local Irish lad translated the authors name for me as Fia o Cuev (qwave phonetically).

Great book, very large, literally tons of sketches and NOT all airliners!!
ISBN is 0-500-51303-1

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Apr-2017/1063042-sketch_book.jpg

gollum
04-12-2017, 06:18 AM
Hand drawn as well ... :)

RegisR
04-12-2017, 08:34 AM
Thanks for the info, Faminz! I will be searching for a copy on Amazon or whatever retailer/outlet I can find it. Great art work!

faminz
04-15-2017, 12:41 AM
finally roughed out all seven planes.
I feel the 777 bottom right could've been a tad larger and lower but the die is cast now! The photo emphasizes it a bit, looks better in real life and it is coming in to land!!.

Now on to the actual shading with the various graphite pencils. I have a set called Montmarte (2B 4B 6B HB and 2H).
I did a tiny tiny bit on the 747 just to try them out!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Apr-2017/1063042-airliners3.jpg

Question: once its all shaded in can I spray a fixing varnish on top? If I can I assume it should be matte?

napier
04-15-2017, 12:51 AM
Brett looking good I spray all my drawings with a matt vanish.

Chas McHugh
04-15-2017, 03:16 AM
'Varnish' or 'Fixative'?
I always use the latter, but have never 'varnished' a pencil drawing.

Incidentally you can achieve amazing results on pencil drawings by diligently using liquid fixative and a small watercolour brush. If you employ a soft pencil 4-9B then you can brush the graphite and move it with the brush creating some awesome blending effects that you do not get with a cotton bud. It could be argued that the result is akin to a graphite 'painting'.

Worth trying out on a side drawing though :angel:

faminz
04-15-2017, 03:43 AM
Cheers Chas.. Side drawing for sure I think..
And yes for varnish read fixative!!

NeilF92
04-15-2017, 06:01 AM
Looking good . A lot of work to come with that.

faminz
04-16-2017, 11:50 PM
Fokker.
Photo has made it very smudgy and harsh, it looks better in RL.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Apr-2017/1063042-F27.jpg

napier
04-17-2017, 12:39 AM
looks good Brett:thumbsup:

Ianrevealed
04-21-2017, 02:07 PM
This is really good looking work.

I tried some Derwent graphite pencils recently but found them a bit on the hard side. I reverted to using Staedtler for the final drawing - a portrait of a friends daughter.

Out of interest - anyone out there - Graphite vs normal pencils, when does one use which type? Any views?

PS. I like the tip about using a brush, I will have to do some tests :)

Chas McHugh
04-21-2017, 03:24 PM
My advice would be for you to go easy on the hard outline. If the fuselage upper edging was soft and gentle, the effect would be inspiring. Even better if the opportunity arises for soft blending on the upper surfaces and no 'line' at all.

NeilF92
04-21-2017, 03:28 PM
I'm with Chas on the Fokker . The fuselage top line could be faded to virtually nothing .

faminz
04-21-2017, 04:26 PM
Agreed... I'll see what I can do about that, at least there 6 more to go..

gollum
04-21-2017, 07:08 PM
I'm with Chas on the Fokker . The fuselage top line could be faded to virtually nothing .

Let the brain put in details that are only hinted at, there is no need to actually (out line) everything

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Apr-2017/1526886-H_P_Hermes_1.jpg

Or when you use paint

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Apr-2017/1526886-Nimrod1.jpg

faminz
04-21-2017, 11:14 PM
Ok already... :)

Mind you there's no background to help like the nimrod but I've used the eraser/rubber and minimized it. Was a tad worried the fixative would have got in the way but strangely enough it still rubbed out. The Fabriano paper is so good there is no visible mark from rubbing either!

Will do the 767 very soon...

Gray539
04-23-2017, 12:25 PM
It's all coming together very well, faminz. There's just something about pencil that pleases the eye.

faminz
04-24-2017, 08:31 PM
Here's the 767.
quite simple apart from all those windows!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Apr-2017/1063042-B767.jpg

faminz
05-12-2017, 10:04 PM
Six out of seven done!! phew...

now for the 747! btw any sensible (ie: cost effective) advice on how to post this to the commissioner would be appreciated. I suppose I can roll it but Im worried re smudging and creases in the rather strong (600gsm) paper.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-May-2017/1063042-airliners5.jpg

gollum
05-12-2017, 10:46 PM
What size is it ?

Posting flat is ideal between two sheets of hardboard with a good covering of postman proof cardboard unless it is too big, otherwise I would find (or) make a very large tube & I mean large .... roll it length ways

Work out how big a box you need .... a 36" long drawing would easily fit in a box only 12" square plus the depth, I would make sure the box is crushproof which is easy to do with very thick cardboard & double box it ;) ... you could find old strong boxes at the local supermarket

It has to rolled in a big a size as you can ... preferable only end to end or less otherwise you will get roll wrinkle like you get when you roll up a poster ... you don't want that to happen

Price depends mostly on weight (not) size

The main thing is to get it to the customer undamaged ... going over the top on packaging is necessary as postmen are vandals ... if they can break it they will :(

Chas McHugh
05-13-2017, 02:59 AM
The risk of creasing 600 GSM paper is huge.

I would transport it flat and probably pinned against at least one piece of hardboard. I endorse Lens comment about the post vandals having experienced UPS destroying original artwork.

Although probably an overkill for paper, when I am posting a painting, I make an envelope out of plywood separated by 1.5" x 1.5" mitred wood around the edge glued and nailed to the plywood. - I make one edge easily removable by not using glue and using (removable) screws instead ensuring that Customs are aware of this if the painting travels international.

I used to use bespoke cardboard artwork transit boxes which I purchased individually from a local framer - Until UPS holed such a box and destroyed the canvas inside. These boxes are available in many sizes, and will probably meet your needs. Sourcing one maybe an issue. A visit to a local high street art gallery may give you a pointer.

If it was mine, I would get some plywood slightly larger than the paper and make a parcel based around that. I would also insure it in transit without being modest as the the value of your time. Repeating artwork like for like due to third party negligence is emotionally painful - believe me 😳

vegaskip
05-13-2017, 06:12 AM
I agree with all the advice from Chas, especially the final part. Twice I have had to re paint pictures due to postal disasters. Just last month I posted 5 w/c and sketches to the USA. These were for a book and High Res images had already been sent, these were for the author.
I gave him the option of which method of postage he wanted, and he picked Royal Mail tracked and signed for 3 to 5 working days. Packed flat well stiffened and marked do not bend etc.
Posted it at the local office , tracked it to Edinburgh same day , over night to London international hub next morning. Checked later same day 'item passed to international postal service for delivery in SPAIN AND CANARY ISLANDS!. Imediatly phoned RM. they checked and confirmed this was correct. Was told tha Spain would eventually send it on and up date tracking. Waited a few days, no Change. Telephoned again, was told it had been sent on by Spain. Waited another few days, still no change, so emailed RM help, got standered reply. emailed saying I was not satisfied with service and asking for address of RM Investigating Branch. We are now about three weeks Sromness posting. I get an emailed back saying my complaint had been investigated an (she) was 'was happy the department handled the call properly)
There is a site on the net where you can get email, telephone number etc of Chief Execs ocompanies and organisations.
So I emailed back say she might be happy but I was certainly not, but this time I CC'd the chief exec of RM . Within the hour I had the bosses PA asking for the details as she would investigate. She got no further than me, Spain said they had sent it on, America had no record of it arriving there. Therefore she considered it lost, I should fill in the oppropriat forms and make a claim.
I had already completed the form with all recipts etc. Wife goes to put her shoes on for us to go up to the PO to post it, thought I'd check tracking one last time. Low and behold 'item could not be delivered as office closed, returned to local offices! I contacted the client who was away from home. He contacted his office and collected the patcel on return, contents safe and sound, great sigh of relief, as I had promised to redo the lot if lost .49 days.
I wouldn't send a used bus ticket by R M now.
Jim

faminz
05-13-2017, 06:06 PM
Cheers guys. I had come to the same conclusion. For the value of the drawing making a box with hardboard etc is very worthwhile I think and the courier!
Trouble is I'm a tight *******! But this time it's worth it!

gollum
05-13-2017, 08:48 PM
Cheers guys. I had come to the same conclusion. For the value of the drawing making a box with hardboard etc is very worthwhile I think and the courier!
Trouble is I'm a tight *******! But this time it's worth it!

It's worth packing a drawing or painting properly every
time ;)

vegaskip
05-14-2017, 03:56 AM
The basic root cause of things ' going missing' is the fact that it cheaper for the carrier to pay compensation than set up an investigation unit. They do have them but only for high value, and fraud etc. A quick search on the net about theft from postal/carrier services is shocking. I agree with Faminz re costs. Most of my stuff I charge less than 100, ( some a lot less ) so taking time and materials isn't economical . The biggest 'package' was the last one 21 paintings, 16 framed with glass. Wife and I spent more than a day packing them. This was for the ' Gathering Place' Festival with the Russian Arctic Convoy Museum at Altbea. The exhibition is at the National Trust Inverewe House and Gardens.I don't know the shipping cost as they arranged it. All arrived safely except one with a cracked glass.
Jim

vegaskip
05-19-2017, 10:47 AM
Here is a couple of photos of 21 paintings packed and sent by carrier Auchtermuchty to Inverewe, one glass cracked
Jim
847045

vegaskip
05-19-2017, 10:50 AM
Packed into bundles
(2 sold as far as I know, exhibition on until 23rd.
Jim
847046