one last attempt....

[deevaa]

at watercolour pencils, I plan to move back to acrylic next.

This and the previous 'shadows' work came from a set of poses in a black and white series, I REALLY want to get one down so I can do it on a huge canvas (I've got a 2' x 3' canvas that I'm building up courage to attack...)

Again this is in the watercolour pencil and I tried really hard not to push the colour around too much so it got the hard outline around the outside (from Miltz and Mario's feedback) ... there are several area's I'm not too happy with, but I really like the angles made by the arms and legs against the curves - should I go ahead with this pose on a big canvas in acrylic and (maybe) goldleaf?

[deevaa]

:eek: for a nerd I'm not too bright! :eek:

[richardnovak77]

WOW!!!!

that is amazing!!! i really like this!!! i can't critique it because there's nothing i would change...

to reiterrate: WOW!!!

[ZOTMA]

time to break out the paint and gold.
good to see you went right back at it!

[Mario]

I like the unabashed erotic aspects of the pose. I wish that you would take a figure study course from a good teacher, then I could be amazed.

[Totem]

Classic Deevaa style.... :)

Especially trying a new medium...

You may not "amaze" all of them all of the time, but your figures speak for themselves. Beautiful and sensuous...

Hey Mario, Post some of your work so we can be amazed!!!

Totem

[ZOTMA]

Some styles work for some and not others.
It's not a matter of education, it's a matter of taste what kind of work to do and what kind of work appeals to you. I really think one limits oneself if one feels as though one needs to discount a piece of work that doesn't fit a certain style or technique. The figure can be rendered in the style of any of the different genres of art and they don't all deal with realism.

If someone feels like those other genres of art aren't valid or there is no room for individual style in the rendering of art, then that sounds to me like a very good foundation for a thread in debate. NOT in someones personal thread.

[jnet11]

hi dee-

the head and shoulder construction is distracting me in this one- the head seems too small, and our right shoulder (her left) looks dislocated.

I miss the hand, but I'd call that a matter of personal taste ... great colors, as usual!

J*

[jnet11]

Originally posted by Mario
I like the unabashed erotic aspects of the pose. I wish that you would take a figure study course from a good teacher, then I could be amazed.

sorry, but no teacher can teach you anything that you don't want to learn- and if you want to learn, not having a teacher will never be a hindrance.

There is a value to learning on your own, too, that isn't to be underestimated- your course of study is exactly what you are most interested in at all times.

Maxfield Parrish, Van Gogh, Georgia O'Keeffe either never had 'training' or dismissed their training as totally ineffectual. I'm sure there are many more who don't spring immediately to mind. Gauguin, Schiele, Ryder to name a few more.

Mario, I think that deeva is deliberately distorting her figures to create a mood ... one that doesn't suit you, it seems ... sall good :D

AND i want to see your paintings, too!

jeanette*

************
dee-

sorry to hijack your thread, debates, I know!!!!

:D

j*

[deevaa]

Last night I started working this pose BIG... the biggest I've ever done infact... I've gone back to my favoured medium and I'm really pleased with the results so far.

What I've learnt so far from the debates on these boards is you can't take anything good away from a critique if you don't respect the work of the artist giving it to you.

I've learnt that some people will always hate my work no matter what I produce, I've learnt that some people want you to change your ways just because they don't like them... I've also learnt that my art is best when it comes from inside of ME.

I don't personally like photorealism... I don't understand it - and I don't want to take away anything from those artist who enjoy photorealism, I can see that someone can spend hours and hours making the subject on the canvas look exactly like real life, and I can admire that dedication and talent, but I don't get it, if I want something to look like a photo, I'll take one.... I like to see the brush strokes, work with 'unnatural colour' - Make it bold. Make a statement... with watercolour as my medium, I can't express what too, other artists can work it, but I'm not them.

I know I want to go into a studio and work off live models, but I agree with you Jeanette, you don't need a good teacher to learn.... I learn every day from every day people, I watch, I study and then I interpret. I reflect the world through my eyes onto the canvas, and Mario, no teacher can see through my eyes.

[deevaa]

Originally posted by jnet11
hi dee-

the head and shoulder construction is distracting me in this one- the head seems too small, and our right shoulder (her left) looks dislocated.

I miss the hand, but I'd call that a matter of personal taste ... great colors, as usual!

J*

:p the big version has the hand... and I think I've sorted the shoulder issue.

In the photo I was working from the head had been cut off, I've since found another photo of her in a similar pose with the head included.

... has that book arrived yet?

[jnet11]

not yet :confused:

soon, I hope :D

j*

[Mario]

Dear Deeva,
You got me all wrong , I never opted for photorealism nor for seeing with anyone else's eyes but your own .
I will give you a rave review next time. Or better still, I will just disappear.

[deevaa]

what is it about my work that makes you need to label me ignorant, or 3yr old like? What is it that makes you want to throw your hands to the air and declare I need lessons, or that my process is wrong?

Why is it you come across as opinionated and arrogant when you say you are merely a student then suggest I am beneath you in the 'pecking order'?

and now ou've thrown yourself down as a martyr in front of me .... what do you want me to say? Yes go!?

[sun_merman]

Wonderfully Done!

I Love the treatment you give your work Deeva, it's always a pleasure to see what you create. :clap: :clap:

Mario, I would like to see you take some courses in communication. It is obvious that this is an area that you have neglected in your studies. If you wish to communicate effectively, it is important to understand that the delivery of what you have to say is just as important if not more important than what you say by way of comment!

I'm sorry that your perspective is so black and white. There are many shades of gray in the world and your opinions can be valuable if communicated in a cooperative and constructive way. If you are wanting to vent your frustrations, use your art to do it and let it speak for itself. Using your tongue without concern for the effect it has on others is, in my humble opinion, bad form! Please don't leave the forum, learn from what many of us are saying to you!!! ;)

[Mario]

Hi Deevaa, OK I'll bite. Are you intentionaly distorting the figure? Could you tell me about what you are doing in that regard?
When I wrote that post about the "pecking order", I chose my words carefully and said "along" not "down" as you keep telling everyone. What I was saying is that I have a strict teacher (a process which I do NOT like) and so now I was criticizing your work instead of hearing my own work taken apart. get it? I was not saying that you are below me. I was saying that I am just a student and that this is what I'm learning. The "three yr old" remark that I made, I felt was true and I liked your real 3 yr old's painting but expected more from you.
Yes, I'm taking my toys and going home. The figure is a tough area to explore, it's not easy. I'm spending a lot of money and time learning this stuff and why should I be trying to give it to others who don't want to hear it? Maybe, I'm just in the wrong forum. I will return to the Oil painting forum, perhaps what you are doing dosen't relate to what I am interested in.
Look, I like the work of Joan Brown and if that is what you are going for, well maybe you are on the right track. Perhaps, you could post a picture of a work on the figure which you think is, more or less, where you are heading with your own work. Not to imitate but just; what is your inspiration?

[deevaa]

Its not that I don't want to hear WHAT you have to say, I don't like HOW you are saying it.

If you didn't read what I wrote when I first posted this thread, I took notice of your words and worked on not having a hard outline.

as for passing along or down the pecking order, thats just word play, you they both mean the same thing, it doesn't matter which word you had in the slot.

You say you have a strict teacher and you don't like that.... so why try and BE that teacher? You don't like it, why would I?

I'm not heading to be like any other artist, I've expressed this before, I am my own artist - you may or may not like my work, my style or maybe even my personality -- but that doesn't make me a bad artist.

[richardnovak77]

another great pic!!

you know, a lot of people opt for the "iconic" look when they create, in other words, instead of drawing an eye from life, with lashes and wrinkles and cpotty irises, etc... they draw one curvey line on top, one curvey on the bottom, and a circle in between and that's *their* way of doing it. the problem is, most times their stuff ends up looking like a PBS cartoon or something.

deeva however has this way of pulling it off. she is nowhere close to photorealism (i really hope that's her purpose, otherwise i'm sticking my foot WAYYY into my mouth here) but her are is still great! it has this mature, almost playfully serious edge to it. it's like she's saying "don't take this art for granted, it's fun and i had a great time doing it, but it's absolutely professional."

good work as usual, deeva!

[everetto]

I love both of these paintings, you are finding colors that are not true flesh tones, but still come off as very lush and alive. I also prefer distortion in figurative work- Though In your first painting posted I couldn't tell whether that was a head- or a neck bent with her head behind her. I think it needs just a little more deliberate rendering. Just enough to make your intentions more clear. I'd also like to see the final painting completely filled with color. But don't let my critique lessen my enthusiasm, I would proudly hang either painting in my home just as is. I hate to always bring up other artists (I'm not comparing) but, do you enjoy Modigliani?

[deevaa]

everetto -- yes, this painting was worked with a nod to Modigliani, I should have mentioned that when I posted it... when I first put it on WC for Critique I gave Modigliani credit.

and richard, the 2nd painting is named 'tumble'... realism isn't what I strive for, expression and emotion is what I'm after, to be fair to Mario I could have just explained that to him, to me the 'feeling' of the work is more important than if I got all the lines in the right places, and with watercolour I don't believe I can get that feeling.

[PJL]

Deeva...

I love your work.. mopre great hips :)

I would also like to add my request to see some of Mario's work... He must be a magnificant artist.

[ArtyHelen]

I really like it! But I see the boobies as two eyes, the navel as a nose, and the tummy as two smiling lips, making the mouth to complete the face! Now that I've seen it like this, I'm finding it hard to see it as anything else! :)

I love the colours, and I also love your unique style!

Helen

[Mario]

Hi PJL, careful with that lusting for hips, it could be classified as herassment.
Yes, I am a magnificent artist and when I get my digital camera (approx. Sep.) I will ennundate you with photos of great art.
"The two most fortunate things that can happen to a painter are, first, to be Spanish and, second to be named Dali. Those two fortunate things have happened to me." S. D.
It takes a big ego to be good.

[deevaa]

There is a distinct difference between having a well developed ego, and obnoxious arrogance, lets hope for your sake that an abundance of arrogance makes for good art also.

[MichaelRH]

Another point of view..that I find extremely meaningful:


"A picture should be a re-creation of an event rather than an illustration of an object, but there is no tension in the picture unless there is a struggle with the object". Francis Bacon

Another:

"It's also always hopeless talking about painting-one never does anything but talk around it--because, if you could explain your painting, you would be explaining your instincts".

Ok, one more! lol ( I find a lot of wisdom in these statements)

"Great art is always a way of concentrating, reinventing what is called fact, what we know of our existence---a reconcentration....tearing away the veils that fact acquires through time. Ideas always acquire appearance veils, the attitudes people acquire of their time and earlier time. Really good artists TEAR DOWN THOSE VEILS". All of the above quotes by Francis Bacon. (The emphasis on tearing down those "veils" is mine)

Move beyond acquisitions of skill, and you'll be moving into areas of true insight and wisdom. Emotional truth is as honest (and as important and as significant as ANY degree of talent). uh..imho.

A question for anyone....Is representing an *ideal* with all the talent/skill at ones disposal MORE important than representing how you (the artist) FEEL about representing (in your OWN language!!!), the CONCEPT of an *ideal*.

Just for the sake of argument...(FOR ME) hehe, there is far more truth in ANY of Francis Bacon's paintings than there are in countless realistic..representational paintings. Ohoh..I'm ducking now...I see a wall of incoming shower of tomatoes and eggs!!!!! Well, there you go.......differences of opinion....isn't it grand!
:rolleyes: !

[jheinrich]

thank you, michael.

could you perhaps give the name of the book you read by him? I would love to pick it up.

j*

[jheinrich]

Originally posted by Mario

Yes, I am a magnificent artist and when I get my digital camera (approx. Sep.) I will ennundate you with photos of great art.

It takes a big ego to be good.

WRONG! it takes a big ego to be GREAT! lololol-

just can't fake it, mario, I'll catch you everytime :D

(have you started building your spider homes yet? got your amber ring? killed cezanne?)

(sorry for the hijack deeva)

j*

[Mario]

Hi Jheinrich, I see that you are one of the few who has read "50 secrets of magic craftsmanship"!
Hi MichaelRH, Great quotes! Excuse my ignorance but was that the English Philosopher or the Irish figure painter?? and why would you expect controversy?
This thread is becoming more interesting.

[Hrafen]

deeva,

I just joined wetcanvas but I've been lurking about for a while now. I just wanted to say that I like what I've seen of your work.

I like the distortion of the figure. I think it inhances the natural curves of the body making the figure more sensual and more real than if it was done in a more photo realistic manner.

Any work of art has to show what is felt as well as what is seen and you certainly convey this in your painting.

Hrafen

[MichaelRH]

You know, I have a feeling we'd hit it off very well together, and...I have this feeling that your paintings will indeed, be very, very good!!!!! (anticipation!!)

I admire anyone who is committed and expressing what they believe. Those committments and values are what makes us who we are.....and are the driving motivators for what we have to say.

I have enjoyed seeing ALL of your posts, and you will make me very happy (hehe, not that you NEED TO!!! lol)...if you stay with us here at Wetcanvas...continuing to post, and (when you get that digital camera).....post your work.

If you ever have a chance to visit Colorado.....I would look foreward very much to meeting you. (I'll bring my notebook....I am interested in your thoughts...opinions...and ideas. I mean that. Glad to see you enjoying these threads as much as many of us do. Thank you Mario for putting up with my *rambling*.

I think that what very little wisdom I might possess comes from knowing how little I know!! lol.

Again, thanks for being a part of Wetcanvas.
--Michael (one artist to another)

[MichaelRH]

The quotes by Francis Bacon were taken from the book:

"Bacon", by Hugh Davies and Sally Yard. Abbeville Press, Modern Masters Series, Copyright, 1986

There are many good books with reproductions of his work, but the biographies....offer much more insight into his life.

One of my recent favorites is "Francis Bacon--Anatomy of an Enigma", by Michael Peppiatt 1996 Westview Press.

Mario, was good to receive you message this morning. I am (also) a firm believer in the approaches to constructing paintings that you provide in the notes along with your posts. I am a disadvantage (?) lol, because my approach to the figure is not very consistant. :( But, in terms of painting the formal elements that one is seeing......those are very, very good suggestions!!
--Michael

[jheinrich]

Originally posted by Mario
Hi Jheinrich, I see that you are one of the few who has read "50 secrets of magic craftsmanship"!
This thread is becoming more interesting.

what a riot, eh? "Viridian is the galloping stallion of your pallette ..."

**************

Ten rules for him (ahem*) who wishes to be a painter by Salvador Dali

1. Painter, it is better to be rich than poor: so learn how to make gold and precious stones come out of your brush.
2. Don't be afraid of perfection: you will never attain it!
3. Begin by learning to draw and paint like the old masters. After that, you can do as you like; everyone will respect you.
4. Don't throw to the dogs either your eye or your hand or your brain, for you will need them all if you are to be a painter.
5. If you are one of those who believe modern art has surpasses Vermeer and Raphael, don't read this book, just go right on in your blissful idiocy.
6. Don't vomit on your picture, because it is the picture who can vomit on you after you are dead.
7. No lazy masterpieces!
8. Painter, paint!
9. Painter, don't drink alcohol, and chew hashish only five times in your life.
10. If painting doesn't love you, all your love for her will be unavailing.

*******************
hey mario I want the secrets you sent to michaelrh! :crying:

j*

[deevaa]

Originally posted by MichaelRH
A question for anyone....Is representing an *ideal* with all the talent/skill at ones disposal MORE important than representing how you (the artist) FEEL about representing (in your OWN language!!!), the CONCEPT of an *ideal*.

Just for the sake of argument...(FOR ME) hehe, there is far more truth in ANY of Francis Bacon's paintings than there are in countless realistic..representational paintings. Ohoh..I'm ducking now...I see a wall of incoming shower of tomatoes and eggs!!!!! Well, there you go.......differences of opinion....isn't it grand!
:rolleyes: !

If I was painting (representing) an ideal, I'd have to paint it within my own feelings other wise I'd be lying to you on canvas.

I'd much rather paint with visable emotion than with perfect visable represention. :p

[Mario]

Why can't we get away from this idea of "perfect visual representation" and "photo realistic manner"..who's talking about that? ..who wants that?
I was just championing the idea that when a painter responds to what he sees, there is a special suprise that occurs. A special "translation" that contains the artists feeling and vision of the subject. Not to paint like a camera. I have been crusading, on other threads, against "photo vision" and against painting from photographs when the real thing is attainable. So, since I was the one who started this polemic, let me state that we have strayed far from understanding each other, in my opinion.
Now, that I know that Deeva intends to play with a mental image of the human figure and to catch some of the feeling of a Modigliani...fine, go for it.
Actually, these duels with Deeva have helped me to learn to find better ways of describing what I'm after. Thanks for the forum. I hope that we eventually all understand each other even if we don't agree.

[MichaelRH]

Glasses ready?? Here is to Mario..Deevaa (dueling with Deevaa..I like that!!!!!)Jeanette, PJL, ArtyHelen, Hrafen...and eveyone else who has stumbled into this thread!.....may you all find inspiring subjects to paint....uh ok, ok..I need something REALLY profound here...eh.....ummm....ok...never trust a nude bus driver. Cheers! ............uh, wait. (That is....unless you feel that they might be a good model)!

[jheinrich]

:D

[deevaa]

with a crowbar...

I left NZ yesterday morning (at some STUPIDLY early hour...) and flew to Melbourne, Australia.

I'm on 9 days worth of R&R with my lover and son :p.

He (being my love, not my son) has banned me responding in any way to Mario's comments, good bad or otherwise.

I'll be back in dueling mode in a little over a week, watch out.

[Mario]

Of course, it bugs me that he is keeping us apart. I am counting the days until we are back together again. He dosen't know what turns you on, like I do.

[Dru]

Of course, it bugs me that he is keeping us apart. I am counting the days until we are back together again. He dosen't know what turns you on, like I do.


Stalking? Harassment? Plain ol' creepiness? Who says you have to give up ANY of the usual internet fun when you log on to Wetcanvas, eh?

:mad:

Dru

[Mario]

"Stalking? Harassment? Plain ol' creepiness?"

Uptight? Bitter/Sour? Lack of humor about anything Male/Female? Who says that you have to give up any of the San Fransisco fun when logging onto the internet?

[Dru]

Funny, how people who harass others always, without fail, claim to be 'just having fun' when they're called on it. They also accuse people of not having any 'sense of humour'. There was a time when they could get away with it, too, and people would think, 'Hmm, maybe he's right! Harassment is funny!'

Another strategy is to lash out at whoever points out their unacceptable behaviour, knowing that this will discourage others from doing the same, and make it seem as if the majority of people really do agree that harassment is funny.


If you're a woman reading this, think about how you'd like to find a note like this in the mail. If you're a guy, how would you feel if a stranger sent this to your wife or girl friend? If you're a father, wouldn't you feel this to be a threat if your daughter showed it to you?
Here, I'll quote it again. If it was that funny the first time it must still be good for a few laughs ...
Mario wrote:
...I am counting the days until we are back together again. He dosen't know what turns you on, like I do.

You can call me uptight, bitter, and sour. That's a lot nicer than the things I would have to call myself if I just stood by and watched ...

Regards, Dru

[Mario]

I'm sorry, then the Politically Correct his/her story would be; Mario is a Villain, Deevaa is a Victim, and Dru is the Hero/ine who did not stand by and watch. Well, thanks for saving Deevaa and for putting that dastardly Mario in his place, (down there with the rest of the male chauvinist, heterosexual, alchohol swilling, meat eating, sleezy slime.) Gee, I kind of like this new world, a little black and white but it's reassuring to know right from wrong, at last.

[Dru]

Deevaa's an adult and is perfectly able to take care of herself; I don't think you pose any threat at all to her. I'm just here to tell you that your behaviour is unacceptable to me.

When you first referred to her as, 'DD' (incidentally this must be the only place in Wetcanvas where you can address a woman in terms of anatomy and not have the moderator say anything) she made it clear in her reply that she found it offensive. A gentleman would have immediately apologized, a smart man would have realized that his innuendo were out of place and refrained from making any more. You did neither.

Now that your behaviour's been questioned you're pulling the martyr bit again.... Implying that you're the victim of political correctness! Is that your standard response everytime when you want to say you're sorry without really meaning it? I hope noone's buying it.

down there with the rest of the male chauvinist, heterosexual, alchohol swilling, meat eating, sleezy slime.

So you think that heterosexuality means chauvinism? Is this some sort of image that you grew up with, that really 'manly' men treat women with disrespect or else they're gay? Check the date. We left that attitude behind a long time ago. You might think you've got a lot of company down there, but as far as I can tell you're pretty much on your own.

Regards, Dru

[Mario]

Look Dru, This is my last post on this thread. I used the abbreviation DD to stand for DollarDays who's thread it was on and whose post I was answering. Deevaa, wrote me a private apology for calling me a Harrasser but did not write a public one. She just erased her post, like it never happened. Now, I suppose that you will do the same thing, because the really important thing is to LOOK GOOD, right?
I'm no martyr and I'm not suffering except that I'm roped into a conversation with someone who has decided to be humorless and selfrightious, here. This is really dull. I will retreat and leave the thread to your policing. Ciao

[Dru]

Gosh, Mario, you're absolutely right! Deevaa's complaint IS gone, vindicating you completely.
I now understand that the relationship between you and her was one of jocularity and flirtatiousness, not harassment and persecution. In light of that, I can see why you would say what you did. ...I am counting the days until we are back together again. He dosen't know what turns you on, like I do. I can even see how it's funny, and how she obviously is on an entirely different level of intimacy with you than I originally thought.
Once again, I apologize. I hope that I haven't caused you or the readers of this thread too much discomfort with my pigheaded repetitiousness and misunderstanding. And no, I'm not going to delete (or edit) my posts. Let them stand as a lesson to me and any others who might think of speaking up when they shouldn't.

Best wishes,
Dru
:crying:

[Mario]

Wow, Thanks Dru, I hope that we can be friends now. See you on other threads, later. M

[MichaelRH]

...............Dru, Mario......I'll buy the first round....one of you will have to decide on the location! Somewhere in the middle.....so it isn't too far for each of us to drive! Let me see, Dru, you are in San Francisco I believe, and Mario...(I forget where you're located..) (We should probably invite Deevaa and her companion also, don't you think??).

btw: I suppose it is easy to misinterpret comments in this format from time to time. Mario...I did know that you were joking...but be careful ok...I have a feeling Deevaa can dish it out also!! lol

[llis]

Originally posted by MichaelRH
...............btw: I suppose it is easy to misinterpret comments in this format from time to time. Mario...I did know that you were joking...but be careful ok...I have a feeling Deevaa can dish it out also!! lol


As always, Michael has the right words to say when things stray from the true reason for this forum.

Thanks, Michael.

I am a student of "figure" so I have really enjoyed lurking in the background and learning from all the different artists that participate in this forum. There is so much to learn from each of you, that is for sure. As with classes that I have attended, everyone does not agree about methods, materials, or final artistic expression, but it sure is a learning experience to listen and see what each artist is talking about. As long as folks just don't take words personally, there is always something to learn.

I guess the important thing to always remember is that your words and actions always influence someone to take some action. Let's all hope that, as fellow artists, we are here to build up and encourage each other. No, I am not talking about "pats on the back", but instead honest, helpful critiques and thoughts that will move us all to be better artists.

I appreciate Michael and Bruin70 for taking the time to guide this forum and encourage each of us. I've learned so much!!!!!!

[Nathangill]

Come on everyone, big group hug.
There. Don't we all feel better?

Ilis - you say you're a lurker... Have you got anywhere we can see your works if you don't put them here?

[llis]

sure, you can see my work on my website posted below...or you could check out a few of my attempts at drawing by looking for them in the projects area. I can't remember all the ones that I have done, but I do remember that I drew my hand, and also drew a pirate. Don't let them scare you too much.

Thanks for asking.

[bruin70]

you need a nose. and some neck muscle anchored by the trapezious.....{M}

[Masterartworks]

I would just like to say, if this is the way you want to express yourself, don't let anyone stop you. I know from experience, that our human nature, only allows us to accept criticism from those we respect, if we feel it applies to our goals, interests, and creative abilities.

But, I also know, that the struggle of going beyond a comfortable place to a new realm can be hard and frustrating. Evidently you have a deep need for expression, and you want to branch out pushing your boundaries using different medium.

Constructive criticism is necessary for growth if it is given in view of actually helping, as a passing along of learned information or an objective point of view. It can be up building and encouraging, while still being honest and kind. On the other hand, harsh and rude criticism can hurt deeply, and it is usually given for the purpose of tearing down. This can be very damaging, but it can still be productive if you let the resulting outrage and anger, spur you into taking action with an "I'll show you" determination.

BE bold and fearless in your attempts, don't settle for just what you do well at. Take risks, make mistakes and learn from them. Remember, everybody's paintings are just that "attempts" to be more than what we are, usually never to our own satisfaction, let alone that of others.

Best Wishes, Lei

[bruin70]

hey you guyz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this thread belongs in debates.....{M}

[deevaa]

and one of those people is me, but not before I have my say.

... Mario, back off. Back way the *#$@!% off. You are not funny. Your attempts at humour are not funny. I do not find you funny or cute. Label me uptight and sour, thats just fine with me, but if you must comment on threads I've posted, stick to feedback on the art, not on me or my personality, and maybe some day when you post your work, I'll try to remember to do the same.

Bruin70, I disagree -- this thread does not belong in debates, this thread was started for me to get CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on my watercolour. If someone else would like to open a thread in debates over Mario's offensive behaviour then by all means.

[Mario]

Deevaa, It's obvious that you just love a good fight...admit it and quit trying to pull me into the ring with you. I will try to resist...:evil:

[bruin70]

the last critique posted here was on page two, two weeks ago.

since then it's been about everything but.

you can start anew over at debates and get fresh points of view to join in.

and one last thing about critiques. make 'em relevant and useful so EVERYONE benefits, otherwise it looks like one is just admiring one's own sass.....{M}