Community College

[animus.creator]

Hey,
If I was going to pursue a career in the art field do you folks think it would be wise to first go to my local community college. This would allow me to build up a better portfolio for transfering to a Florida oublic university. Here in Florida, we are guaranteed admission to one of the public universities in state. It would also save me about 60,000 dollars in two years. Any opinions?

[Bill J]

I think going to a school like Ringling in Sarasota would be the best bet. I also can't figure out how you are going to save 30K a year by going to a junior college. And 3rd and not least- your statment
"If I was going to pursue a career in the art field do you folks think it would be wise to first go to my local community college. "

This statment leads me to believer that you may not be 100% motivated to go into the Art field. Its a long tough road and unless you are completly motivated explore other options.
bill

[animus.creator]

Ringling is a very expensive school and one that I do not have the money for. You save money because a 4 year school in florida is around 12,000 a year not including books and supplies. I have been taking classes independently since age 7, is that not motivation? I enter every exhibition around town. I have checked ringling and several other schools. They require no other educational classes other than art....what kind of education do you get if you dont learn anything but art? This is why i concluded that maybe a cc then university would be a better idea.

[luvlorn]

I don't think you'll save quite as much as 60 thou by going to a community college. Maybe closer to 30 after you pay for community college. Tuition for a public university in Florida will cost you at most $4,000 a year as a resident. It's usually closer to $3000 I think. It's paying for rent and everything else that gets costly and you'll pay that depending on where you live (if you plan to be away from home and are elligible to get financial aid you'll get more at a university). That is why the universities say it cost's $13,000 per year.

What you need to do, if you want a BFA from a Florida public university in your first two years is make sure you that you are taking all of the state-mandated pre-requisites during your first two years, + your gen eds, + whatever other credits you need to get into a program for your last two years. (I spent an extra year working this out because I started as a Bio major).

Try talking to people in programs to decide on what you want to do. If you know you can learn as much in a community college and you'll be happy there then why not? You could even dual enroll--take some classes at university and some at community college. Visit the colleges you are thinking of attending and sit in on classes if you can.

I'm not sure how the individual programs are set up except that USF Tampa's art program frowns on anything commercial. If you are strictly fine arts then you might like it. I transferred to another program on another campus and actually have professors who've taught at Ringling. The thing about that school is you get what you pay for, which is better equipment. Personally, I can't even think to try to afford that.

Your pre-reqs are going to be pretty much the same for any florida public university. You'll need Drawing 1 and 2, Design (or Fabrications) 1 and 2, Art History 1 and 2, and a couple electives. You could, if you are only concerned with learning studio techniques take the studio courses at a univesity and the others at a community college to save the money. You do want to be able to have good work to go in your portfolio if you need one to get into a program for your last two years. The important thing is that it's YOUR education and that what you are working toward is important to you, no matter how you decide to play it.

(I think I heard the students at Ringling were freaks anyway, haha, I just hate to see public universities get cut down).

[Bill J]

animus.creator, lovlorn has some very good points. I've seen a few Ringling students start there first jobs about good bucks, but you do with what you have and it looks like you don't have the dollars to go there. I hope a few more add to this thread and give you a few more ideas.

bill j.

[Artrunner]

its my experience that what the univerisity says its cost of attendance is, usually isn't that close to reality.

for instance, universities factor in the cost of things that you really don't need, like at my school, a "Meal Plan" for two semesters comes close to $3,000. that is just plain ridiculous, anybody can eat extremely well for a fraction of that (and I do).

so you might want to look closer at what those expenses are. its possible that it isn't going to cost as much as you think. tuition for a university is going to cost more, but sometimes you do get what you pay for, and it might be worth it.

[dragonart]

i would do the community college get some of your requireds out of the way and build a better portfolio yes a community college can save you quite a bit the one i went to, to help me with my portfolio i only spent 4000 for a year compaired to the 17,000 im spending now and thats JUST TUITION and i got alot of my pre requisites out of the way

[JoyJoyJoy]

If your goal is to get an MFA and your community college credits (or the AA) are completely transferable, then go for it. You can get most of your core requirements done in community college, and take mostly art classes in your 3rd and 4th years.

However, what you are doing by traveling this route is spending years in non-art classes... which is fine, if you want the basic general college education. If you want to be an artist, and not go through the time and money for all those years of non-art classes, then look into 3 and 4-yr art programs that train you ONLY to be an artist (no english, history, blah, blah). Some community colleges offer such degrees (it is a 3-yr course in my area)... also check out museum schools. There are many good art schools in metropolitan areas.

I have taken college-level art classes in several state universities, and I have always been disappointed. The teachers are usually tired of teaching the same thing over and over, and I found no inspiration or creativity in the classes. My guess is that they are teaching, both undergrad and MFA level, because they cannot support themselves as artists. The undergraduate level classes are very basic and boring... you really get no chance to be creative until you get into the MFA program. On the other hand, art schools (that teach only art) are much more exciting... teachers have more enthusiasm and are usually working (not just teaching) artists. The creativity and enthusiasm is infectious... really drives you to learn fast and to create more. The whole school is creatively driven, which is much different than a state college environment.

Just a thought... Nance

[monkeylover]

Animus, What cc are you looking into? I'm here in Orlando, and am currently enrolled at valencia, they have a great art program and I would suggest it to anyone that is set in attending a cc.
Full Sail is a great school too but tuition is way out of the ball park for me, my fiance' has two degrees from there and valencia does not recognize those or any of his remaining credit hours.
Cassandra

[frisbee1948]

I must be very fortunate. The ccs in Los Angeles charge only $18 per unit. That's $54 for a full semester course.

I would recommend checking out the teachers at your local cc. The teachers I've had have been great and it's been my experience that a good teacher means more than a good school.

[snazzette]

animus.creator,

I currently go to MCC (Bradenton), and I cannot *WAIT* to leave there to go to Ringling. There is a reason the teachers are at a CC and not at a university. Granted, some of my teachers like the more laid-back attitude at MCC and are good professors, but for the most part the teachers at CCs are either incompetent (i.e. my Written Communications II teacher, a jaded housewife who got her lessons from Shakespeare fan sites with no true academic roots) or had left/gotten kicked out of more (advanced?) universities. Seriously, I am more intelligent and knowledgeable in some of my subjects than my teachers...and that's sad. But, then again, FL has been voted time and time again to have the WORST public school systems in the COUNTRY. If I were you, I would take a good look at your CC and see if it is truly going to teach you what you NEED to know as a professional artist. If it can, GREAT! If not, then don't sell yourself short. Ringling has an excellent Financial Aid dept. and they work HARD to get you as much FA as they can, plus as a private university, they get more FA from the state, just for them! They also have special awards (including a year's tuition FREE) for Dean's List students - so if you work hard at the school, you get rewarded. These schools know they are high-priced (most because the are the best), and they WANT to help you. They don't expect all of their students to come from high-income families. So, talk to all the places you WANT to go before settling for a below avg. school, just because of cost.

Also, Ringling *does* require classes that are not studio, it's just that they integrate art into their science, math, english, etc. because art is the main focus. If you're interested in checking them out, call Eric Kaster (941.351.5100 - main school line). He's a great admissions counselor, and he'll be able to answer all your questions.

Good luck!

-Snazzette :evil:

[MS_Triple]

You have the right idea. Go to community college and take as many prerequisites as are transferable (and a few more if they are valuable courses). You will save money, become a better student before there is more on the line, have some room to explore so you are not committing those valuable funds in the wrong direction, have opportunity to raise your GPA, and improve your portfolio.

As for quality in teachers- I live in California. When I attended community college my philosophy teacher was a triple PhD (marketing, linguistics and philosophy) listed in Who's Who? He was also a Jesuit priest to boot. The head of the art department was better than many university level professors. She was an accomplished artist with work in galleries and museums and had a background in creative psychology. Professional artists routinely came by to have her critique their work before considering them ready to show. She believed every student should attent junior college before going to a university. Many of the teachers in other departments were equally qualified -I had the greatest English Lit instructor who brought material to life in a such an interesting way. There were many similar experiences in other departments.

There are good and bad teachers everywhere. Talk to everyone. There is rampant cynicism among young people that think they know more than everyone including teachers. Make certain you talk to other teachers, advisors, counselors, etc. so you can learn where the better teachers are. I had six CC's within driving distance if necessary.

Develop your skill at being a student in CC so you get the most out of your time and money in a university.

[octiigon]

Well, there is such a degree as an "Associates of General Studies" where I live. It's basically where YOU decide what courses you have to take to get an associates. Yes, you do have your few general ed. classes you have to complete, but there's nothing wrong with knowing about other things. Not to mention you save a ton of money.

I currently go to a University (Utah State) and basically I don't like it. I thought all I'd have to do is take art classes... but noooo I have to take all these stupid USU 233948329 48 classes and others, more so than the cc. I took a basic art class this semester. If I stayed up here... it'd be another two years before I took an art class. While at the community college, I can take as many art classes as I want- i'd rather have a "crappy professor" in art that not having one at all.

It isn't the school who makes the artist....

[snazzette]

Originally posted by octiigon
While at the community college, I can take as many art classes as I want- i'd rather have a "crappy professor" in art that not having one at all.
I don't agree...having a crappy professor is NOT a good idea. Then, you just have to learn the correct technique over what the crappy professor taught you...
Originally posted by octiigon
It isn't the school who makes the artist....
Now, that is a GREAT opinion! :clap: You are the one who controls your future, not your school...

I apologize for my last post, perhaps it was too harsh...I was just trying to get my point across.
Originally posted by MS_Triple
There are good and bad teachers everywhere. Talk to everyone. There is rampant cynicism among young people that think they know more than everyone including teachers.
And yes, MS_Triple, there are students at the CC level (and above, for that matter) who know more than their teachers...especially in FL. Seriously. I fully admit *MOST* of my teachers at MCC are good, if not excellent, but I know for a fact that I would be getting a better education at Ringling. You get what you pay for.

But, on the other hand, if you can't afford a "pricey" college, than going to a CC is better than nothing. I just wanted animus.creator to realize that money is not necessarily going to stop him from being able to go to Ringling (one of the best art schools in the US). I don't want him to fall into the same hole I did when I first checked out RSAD...they can usually find you a way to pay for the tuition...without busting your piggybank.

-Snazzette :evil:

[MS_Triple]

Originally posted by snazzette
And yes, MS_Triple, there are students at the CC level (and above, for that matter) who know more than their teachers...especially in FL. Seriously. I fully admit *MOST* of my teachers at MCC are good, if not excellent, but I know for a fact that I would be getting a better education at Ringling. You get what you pay for.

You appear to have misinterpreted my post. I did say there was rampant cynicism. That does not mean there are not smart people who know more than most people. It only points out there is a trend more like a virus where it is popular to dis everyone even at the university level.

You will also find better teachers in a CC in some cases. In my example, you would not find a better philosophy teacher. You might find one equally as good at one of the top schools in the country, but not better.

You do not necessarily get what you pay for. That is naive. A better motto to follow is you get what you get when you do your homework. IOW research and don't rely on your friends or peers. Talk to everyone at all levels to find the truth.

Why use the devil icon? People are offering assistance here. Your experience is unfortunate but I really don't care enough to get personal. My advice was for everyone. If you do not want to take it, good for you.

[GreyWolf]

Originally posted by dragonart
i would do the community college get some of your requireds out of the way and build a better portfolio yes a community college can save you quite a bit the one i went to, to help me with my portfolio i only spent 4000 for a year compaired to the 17,000 im spending now and thats JUST TUITION and i got alot of my pre requisites out of the way

I agree with dragonart... I am currently going to our community college, which btw, was just taken over by the University college. We have lost alot of our "community" part of the college because of the "big" university changes... BUT...

My tutition for this semester is only 1,200 dollars (and that is for 16 hours), and that includes two 3ds max classes. I also model for the figure drawing class, and work as an assistant instructor in the CADD department to help pay bills. Almost 3/4 of the students in art and CADD here get in to the really good art schools with their portfolios from this college, and land internships too. My portfolios have already gained me freelance graphic jobs, and hopefully next semester when I finish with the art classes I have left, I can find some way to take more without having to move somewhere...

hope that helps a little :D

[snazzette]

Originally posted by MS_Triple


You appear to have misinterpreted my post. I did say there was rampant cynicism. That does not mean there are not smart people who know more than most people. It only points out there is a trend more like a virus where it is popular to dis everyone even at the university level.

I apologize. I agree that some people take their intelligence egos too far. However, most teachers want to teach in the best schools, and many times those are higher priced. Most of the colleges considered to be the best are higher-priced (i.e. Harvard, Yale, Ringling, Juilliard, etc...) They are not the only schools on the map, true, but they are considered to be the best, and I feel it is human to strive for the best.


Originally posted by MS_Triple

Why use the devil icon? People are offering assistance here. Your experience is unfortunate but I really don't care enough to get personal. My advice was for everyone. If you do not want to take it, good for you.

I feel I am offering my assistance as well. Different views are good when you are making a decision, especially one as important as your education. I use the devil icon in all of my posts, because I like funny cute devils - as a matter of fact, I use them frequently in my artwork. I purposely do NOT use them in the body of the post so they are not construed to be toward other WC! patrons. They happen to be part of my signature.

My advice is toward everyone as well. As a matter of fact, I was building on Bill J.'s opinion, posted before mine. BTW, what did you mean by saying you "don't care enough to get personal"? I wasn't asking for anyone's sympathy, etc. I was just commenting on an experience that happen to me in CC and stating that it has an impact on my views. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I would like to say that I have no hatred toward CC's. I spent 2 years at MCC and got what I could from it. If someone feels they are not ready to jump headfirst into an art school, then by all means try something else first. But, if you are certain that you want to be an artist as your career, then take the plunge and try to go to the school you WANT to go to, not the one that happens to be the most convenient.

-Snazzette :evil:

[MS_Triple]

Although this it probably true "most teachers want to teach in the best schools, and many times those are higher priced," there are only so many positions available. Often the desire to teach overrides where you do it and what salary you are willing to take.

The devil icon/smiley is more often used to delineate anger regardless of where it is placed in the post. Taking this into consideration you may understand what I meant when I said I do not care enough to get personal.

I would also like to clarify that I have not advocated opting for community college out of convenience although that is a viable consideration for some. I happen to live in a populated area that offers multiple campuses within reasonable driving distances.

There are potential students of all ages and life styles not just younger people fresh out of high school. For many these details can be the differences that enable or prevent the pursuit of higher education. Scholarships, loans, parent's assistance, etc. are not available to everyone.

Think resourcefully. CC is there to take advantage of. If your major is art it doesn't matter that you satisfied your math, speech, history, science, etc. requirements in a CC. If not anything else, think of the art supplies you could buy with that extra money.

[snazzette]

You have made some great points, MS_Triple. I agree that there are many students coming out of many backgrounds, and not everyone can (or want to) take the same path. That is why we have so many great differences between artists.

Hmmm....I thought this ( :mad: ) was used to delineate anger...the reason I say this is because I have seen others use smileys after their names, and I have used one all the time. Thank you for the explanation, it honestly didn't occur to me until now that anyone would consider it that way...thanks! :)

There are a lot of student loans, grants, etc...given to students in Florida (from the state) based on need, not merit. Those are available for *any* FL school, public or private. The private schools get more money from the state, due to their higher prices, but at MCC I was able to buy all of my books, supplies, and tuition - and pay most of my rent - based on the Pell Grant and Stafford Loans I got from the Federal program, and I didn't even touch the state money.

Plus, like you said, reasonable driving distance is a must at CC level, because you cannot live on-campus. And, if you don't want to pay extra cost of on-campus housing at university level (for 2 yrs. at least) CC may be a good option.

Either way, if you decide to go to CC for the first 2 yrs. or University for all 4 (I realize both are college level, just using the 2 words to show a difference), please consider an art program with a good reputation for the final stretch.

-Snazzette

[Reignboblu]

Ah, finally an area of expertise I have. Excuse the semi-rant.

Here's the deal. In high school, I was enrolled as both a college prep student and an art student when I started. After sophomore year though, the art curriculum actually penalized you for taking art classes through a system of weighted grades. For example, an A in an art class was equivalent to a C in a science or math class. I was told to make a decision and because I knew I wanted to go to college, I opted to go the math/science/english route.

I also fell for the designer university ploy my senior year. I applied to four schools. In the end, I ended up going to Boston University undecided. Paying $40,000 (I actually was on an $18,000 scholarship and had some loans, but still), I was miserable and directionless. The school wasn't filled with visionary teachers and minds, it was filled with lots of Teaching Assistants and kids with lots of money. I'd sit in classes with 350 other kids. That's what you get for big name. It doesn't make your art better or your mind. People will always take what they want for the situations they are presented with.
Needless to say, I transfered after my first year to UMass Dartmouth, where I started a career as a writer, the most creative of the academic fields I think.
Anyway, after getting a job as a sportsreporter at 19, I learned very quickly, that while it pays the bills, it was not what I wanted to do with my life.
Four classes shy of my BA in English, I dropped out of UMD and enrolled in the fine arts program at a local community college.
This has been the best experience of my life. The classes are small and you have lots of opportunities present to a small number of students. If your worried about kids not having talent, don't worry, you'll have some slackers, but they'll just do their thing, the cream rises to the top. Competition is surprisingly fierce and most importantly, you can pay your way as you go.
Why pay upwards of $40,000 a year to go to a Tier I art school for four years, when you can got to a community college for $1500 a semester, $3,000 a year for the first two years, then transfer as a sophomore to that big school. You'd save $74,000 in loans, financial aid etc. that way. $74,000 you could spend on a new studio, new supplies, a new car...a new printing press....
a house for crying out loud. or at least part of one. I think if I could go back and do that I would have done that from the get go.

What was said about quality though is very true. The program I am in is the second best amongst community colleges in the state.

[k8e]

I have done both the community college & a private 4 year university-

Does the community college you're looking at have an accredited art program? (And guess what?? Those teachers went through the exact same type of training that the ones at the larger 4 year colleges do. Not only that-but SOME teachers choose a smaller community college with smaller classes so that they have some time to work on their own art)

You are also able to incorporate BUSINESS classes into your requirements for your degree.

A community college education is just as valid as a university as long as you are able to transfer the credits to the program that you're looking at afterwards...

HOWEVER-meeting general education requirements for graduation is a hassle if all you are interested in is getting through those 4 years for a degree ....

[J. Harris]

If I may add a bit of info as a parent paying for kids in college (2 now, one more next year).

I went directly to a private 4 year school. I had to pay for it myself with no help from my parents. I DID have scholarships, loans and LOADS of workstudy. I had to work 2 jobs to pay for it. My grades suffered and I had almost no free time. I LOVED it.
I got an excellet education. BUT I knew exactly what I wanted to do without reservations. I left school with LOTS of loans to pay back. It took me 10 years to do it. With all that I wouldn't change a thing.

When MY kids went to school, they went to a JC first. They all had excellent grades in High School and were accepted to good 4 year schools. Instead they went to a JC first.
They got a chance to get their feet under them and decide where and what they wanted to do. Their time was well spent. No, not all the teachers are the best. BUT not all the teachers at University are either. (In fact MOST of them are more concerned with their own career, not yours.)
NOT all credits will transfer, no matter what they tell you. At least one year extra will be needed.
JC's are an excellent option. It WILL give you a chance to develop a portfolio and find your voice. AND it will save you money.
If you know exactly what and how you're going to do, a move directly to a 4 year is perfect, no matter the cost or sacrifice.
Everyone is different.
If after one quarter/semester you find where EVER you are, you find it's not for you, then TRANSFER! Nothing is written in stone! And you can move!
It's a HUGE step, daunting. BUT so what, that's what we're all here for right? Take the leap, you really can't make a serious mistake that can't be corrected.
Close your eyes and jump! I think You'll love it!
Good Luck! I'll check back to see what you decided.

[doodler]

It really depends on the community college and the quality of its programs. I currently attend a community college. There was a guy in one of my classes who attended an art college but due to his mother's health, had to move back home and attend community college. He had to take the basic classes for some reason, and when I asked him how our classes and their classes compared, he said they were pretty much the same.

One of my instructors came from Savannah College of Art and Design's faculty. He said that he would put our two year students against SCAD's any day of the week.

Even if the community college you are looking at doesn't have a very good art program, at least find out what transfers. I would personally rather get my math credits out of the way for $50 a credit hour from an instructor fluent in English than pay $350 to learn it from a foriegn grad student who I have trouble understanding.

[pinkbubelz]

OK, I came across this thread and had to put my 2 cents in.

First, I work in college admissions at a 4-yr university....

There are ups and downs to both ways of study.

1) If you plan to attend a CC and then a 4-yr university, DO THE RESEARCH, and check to see which credits will transfer. Make sure you go to the 4-yr university and get the list from them, do not rely on your friends or the CC's word. Make sure you get the final word from the University. I cannot emphasize this enough.... so many students don't do the research and double and triple check what will transfer. You do not want to waste money if you don't have to, so make sure that if you plan to take this route, you make sure you are not wasting time!

2) A liberal arts education makes you more marketable in the long run. Why you ask? When you attend most 4-yr universities, you are required to take: math, English, science, social science and foreign language. This makes you more marketable in the long run, in case you aren't able to make it on your artwork alone and need other skills to help you get a job. This is speaking from experience. I started college as a pre-med/biology student and decided I loved art enough to change my major. With the skills I acquired in the other curriculum, I have many more options available to me. (I am not saying that you will do this, but it does help!) Many employers these days look at your diploma as a piece of paper that says "this person is trainable".... it almost doesn't even matter what your field is. Obviously, if you want to be an artist, you need a good portfolio, but to have experience in other areas also gives you an edge over the competition as well. (For instance, if you have poor English skills, you may find it difficult to write grants or to get others to take your works as seriously. Or, if you do not have good math skills, you may find it difficult to keep your finances straight, etc.)

3) As someone in admissions in a 4-yr liberal arts University, I come across many students who mistakenly get 4 yrs of "A"s in art an music and neglect their other curriculum (the math, english, science, social studies and foreign language.) The problem is that the majority of liberal arts universities don't even count the grades in your art classes. It's important to maintain your foundations, no matter what you choose to major in.... If your grades in your college prep classes are too low, it won't matter if you're Michelangelo or Picasso or Georgia O'Keefe, you may not get admitted to the university of your choice.... Word to the wise, keep your grades up!!! (And, this also applies to if and when you choose to go to CC to take classes as well!)

4) The up side, as many have mentioned, to going to a 4-yr university is that most professors tend to be a better caliber than those in a CC... HOWEVER, that is not always the case. You need to do the research before choosing the school you plan to attend. Try to talk to current students and find out what they think of the professors, if possible. Visit the campuses, etc....

5) The bottom line, IMHO, is that you, as the student need to make sure that you are using the resources available to you, regardless of the institution..... I've talked to many a student and told them that they can go to an Ivy League or Premier university and drop out OR, they can go to a Community College and be the class valedictorian.... it is all in how they approach their classes. If you take the approach that you plan to get as much out of your education as possible, you will find that you can succeed in doing that in either a CC or a 4-yr University.... Talk to your professors, attend the extra-curricular lectures, visit the museums, bounce your ideas off of other students.... Take advantage of the resources, the school is there for your benefit, and you can only do so, if you take the initiative.

For instance, the local CC near my alma mater 4-yr University had a far better graphic design program... Know the limitations of your surroundings and find the hidden gems.... Sometimes the facilities at a CC may be worse than the 4-yr, but sometimes, they can also be better...

Also, you should research what types of scholarships might be available to you at a 4-yr institution as well-- most 4-yr universities have lots of scholarships available at a freshman level, but some also have scholarships for Transfer students as well. If you know what they are looking for, you can prepare yourself for getting one of those scholarships by keeping up your grades, building your portfolio, etc....

I think I've rambled enough... Good luck!

--Iris

[Termini.]

I went to a community College, and to a University. The community college offered an Associate of Fine Arts degree, and the program was wonderful. Many students treated their AFA degree as a terminal degree, and went off into a variety of professions including ceramics, paint, sculpture, ect. Do any of the community colleges in your area offer a program such as this?

Jim

[MikeN]

I would like to put some more information into this discussion. I teach at both a COMMUNITY COLLEGE and university. It is understood that we are all entitled to our own opinions but seriously lets not over generalize. One of the above posts was completely off the mark and personally down right offensive.

Some teachers teach at the community college level because it is a SERVICE to the community. I find that some university professors, in art especially, have come to an ethical dilemma regarding the lack of jobs for their students in relation to the increasing tuition costs. Community college instructors do not have this same dilemma since tuition is supplemented by the government. Secondly, community colleges have an open door policey which will not EXCLUDE members of the community for lack of skill or knowledge.

Regarding the "get what you paid for attitude": Community college professors in larger cities make a very fare wage. I have colleagues who make 100 k plus at the CC instituions. This is because CC educators are not paid through tuition but rather local and state taxes. This wage is for teaching 20 hours per week or less with summers off. Guess what else? The part time CC teachers, such as myself, teach at the local high dollar universities! Many students pay 5-8 times the amount for the same instuctor and information!

As far as knowing more then the professor in his or her field: Do you really think that or just venting? I do admit not all community colleges are the same but they still require the instructor to hold at least a masters degree in their teaching field.

About Ringling School of Art and Design: All art schools are not equal and this is one of the top instituions in the U.S. It is not completely fair to hold ANY CC or small univesity to the same standards. One plus to a CC is that the students can TRANSFER to these better institutions. I just helped one of my CC students prepare his portfolio for Ringling and guess what he was excepted! I can tell you Ringling would not have accepted someone who was not properly prepared. The CC and Ringling hold the same accredation from NASAD as well.

If anyone wants more first hand information from someone who teaches and attended BOTH CC and Universities I will be happy to add some postitive input.

Have a nice day ;) and sorry for the vent

[animus.creator]

I would like to put some more information into this discussion. I teach at both a COMMUNITY COLLEGE and university. It is understood that we are all entitled to our own opinions but seriously lets not over generalize. One of the above posts was completely off the mark and personally down right offensive.

Some teachers teach at the community college level because it is a SERVICE to the community. I find that some university professors, in art especially, have come to an ethical dilemma regarding the lack of jobs for their students in relation to the increasing tuition costs. Community college instructors do not have this same dilemma since tuition is supplemented by the government. Secondly, community colleges have an open door policey which will not EXCLUDE members of the community for lack of skill or knowledge.

Regarding the "get what you paid for attitude": Community college professors in larger cities make a very fare wage. I have colleagues who make 100 k plus at the CC instituions. This is because CC educators are not paid through tuition but rather local and state taxes. This wage is for teaching 20 hours per week or less with summers off. Guess what else? The part time CC teachers, such as myself, teach at the local high dollar universities! Many students pay 5-8 times the amount for the same instuctor and information!

As far as knowing more then the professor in his or her field: Do you really think that or just venting? I do admit not all community colleges are the same but they still require the instructor to hold at least a masters degree in their teaching field.

About Ringling School of Art and Design: All art schools are not equal and this is one of the top instituions in the U.S. It is not completely fair to hold ANY CC or small univesity to the same standards. One plus to a CC is that the students can TRANSFER to these better institutions. I just helped one of my CC students prepare his portfolio for Ringling and guess what he was excepted! I can tell you Ringling would not have accepted someone who was not properly prepared. The CC and Ringling hold the same accredation from NASAD as well.

If anyone wants more first hand information from someone who teaches and attended BOTH CC and Universities I will be happy to add some postitive input.

Have a nice day ;) and sorry for the vent

Thanks to all for the input. I have made my choice and that is community college. Simply put I am not prepared for a big time art school.

[pinkbubelz]

Thanks to all for the input. I have made my choice and that is community college. Simply put I am not prepared for a big time art school.

I think that if you are still in the "wondering" and "exploring stage", this would be a good time for you to explore other areas of study as well. Most students change their majors 3 or 4 times during the course of study-- you may end up liking something else better, so at least you can take your general studies classes and work on finding your niche... That way, when or if you decide to go for a 4-yr degree, you'll be better prepared and more focused... (plus you will probably be able to save some money this way.)

Good luck!

--Iris

[J. Harris]

Good For You!
I think you'll find making the decision is the hardest thing you'll do.
Good Luck!
Check back in from time to time and let us know How you're doing.
Jeanette

[Keith Russell]

I have an Associate's Degree from a Community College that I obtained in 1988. I freelanced for several years, before finally settling into an 'office managerial' type job. It took me four years (attending part-time) to complete a two-year degree, and I was too burned out to continue right after graduation.

Now, I wish I had simply gone for the four-year degree from the beginning. Freelancing is hard work, but it was pretty much all that was available to me. I applied for several good art jobs, and we were told by our teachers that our portfolios were all that mattered. Several times, several large local firms, asked me back for a second, and even a third interview with their seniour art director, but even though the art directors really liked my portfolio, management always hired the person with the four-year degree.

I plan to get back in school this fall, to obtain my BFA. I plan to stay in school after graduation, to obtain my MFA.

If you have the opportunity to go to a four-year school, I'd recommend it highly, definitely over a two-year program. You'll probably have to work just as hard, and pay nearly as much, for a good Community College art program, as you would at a four-year school.

Why not get that four-year degree, for all that work?

K

[Termini.]

I have an Associate's Degree from a Community College that I obtained in 1988. I freelanced for several years, before finally settling into an 'office managerial' type job. It took me four years (attending part-time) to complete a two-year degree, and I was too burned out to continue right after graduation.

Now, I wish I had simply gone for the four-year degree from the beginning. Freelancing is hard work, but it was pretty much all that was available to me. I applied for several good art jobs, and we were told by our teachers that our portfolios were all that mattered. Several times, several large local firms, asked me back for a second, and even a third interview with their seniour art director, but even though the art directors really liked my portfolio, management always hired the person with the four-year degree.

I plan to get back in school this fall, to obtain my BFA. I plan to stay in school after graduation, to obtain my MFA.

If you have the opportunity to go to a four-year school, I'd recommend it highly, definitely over a two-year program. You'll probably have to work just as hard, and pay nearly as much, for a good Community College art program, as you would at a four-year school.

Why not get that four-year degree, for all that work?

K



Keith,

I went and obtained both a two year degree, and a four year degree, and I enjoyed both programs. In some ways I had more fun, if college could be called fun, in the two year program. Many of the classes were smaller, and the quality of the instructors was just as good. It can be a way of completing the first two years, at less expense. Many Community Colleges still have rates in the vicinity of $100, per credit hour. Most four year schools are now well over $200 per credit hour, and private 4 year colleges can range from $400-$750 per credit hour. A good 2 plus 2 program, can save alot of money. It seems that if working in the field of commercial art is the goal, a four year degree does create an advantage. An associates degree is still a degree, though, and when considering that 75% of the U.S. population has no college degree at all, it is quite an accomplishment. You are right, about continuing on. Once a person is on a roll, it can be helpful, to just keep rolling. I have started a masters program 4 times over the past 17 years, and something always comes up, that sidetracks me.

Jim

[Keith Russell]

Keith,

I went and obtained both a two year degree, and a four year degree, and I enjoyed both programs. In some ways I had more fun, if college could be called fun, in the two year program. Many of the classes were smaller, and the quality of the instructors was just as good. It can be a way of completing the first two years, at less expense. Many Community Colleges still have rates in the vicinity of $100, per credit hour. Most four year schools are now well over $200 per credit hour, and private 4 year colleges can range from $400-$750 per credit hour. A good 2 plus 2 program, can save alot of money. It seems that if working in the field of commercial art is the goal, a four year degree does create an advantage. An associates degree is still a degree, though, and when considering that 75% of the U.S. population has no college degree at all, it is quite an accomplishment. You are right, about continuing on. Once a person is on a roll, it can be helpful, to just keep rolling. I have started a masters program 4 times over the past 17 years, and something always comes up, that sidetracks me.

Jim

I didn't have any student loans to pay off after graduating from juniour college, which is a good thing, given the types of jobs I've been working since I graduated. But--I would have had the money to pay off such loans, had I gone on and completed a four-year program; I would have then been able to get a much better--and much better paying--job.

Factor in sixteen years of 'lost wages', and I didn't save any money by stopping after juniour college.

In fact, I lost a great deal of money.

K