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View Full Version : wine and Apples


Ian_Myford
11-14-2016, 04:49 AM
MY IMAGE(S):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/upload_spool/11-14-2016/200612_apples-and-wine.jpg


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: wine and Apples
Year Created:
Medium: Watercolor
Surface: Watercolor Paper
Dimension: 35 x27
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
Not a good reproduction here.

The apples look like tomatoes on the computer

Better in reality.

Used watercolor and Gauche

And the background was done with an airbrush.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
I'm happy with this one - I took my time for a change.

Lots of planning before hand.

Still all I can see is what is wrong with though --

Need some comments to tell me I'm being too critical

OR NOT!!!

gebhm
11-14-2016, 02:43 PM
The apples appear flat as does the wine holder. I think they could use a little more shading.

Yvonne Keogh
11-14-2016, 08:49 PM
The apples appear flat as does the wine holder. I think they could use a little more shading.

also on the blue wine holder

SilverSwallow
11-14-2016, 09:42 PM
Its not a bad effort overall, but there are several key technical issues with it.
Your perspective, value, and composition are all suffering. All of these areas require a huge amount of time and effort to study and understand.

My advice would be to study and learn perspective first. No amount of value control, composition, details, or subject matter will work on top of bad perspective.

There are plenty of free tutorials and educational resources available online for you to look at. I honestly think if you can tackle this first, your work will take a massive leap forward. Remember, perspective applies to everything we draw or paint, its not something just confined to distant mountains or railway tracks.
Keep at it and best of luck!

~JMW~
11-15-2016, 12:01 AM
Watercolor Painting of a Red Apple - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjKlvEYbTW8

Wine bottle & fruit in Watercolor - non english, but you can see how he does it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvg6GdyG4fc
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FTvg6GdyG4fc%2Fhqdefault.jpg&sp=24cba930137ae4a1b43196afe2143d3a

The white cloth feels stark & overpowering.. maybe a creamy warmer off white??
But highlights & shadows with a clear light source/direction will help.

Avoid blah gray shadows and use a slightly blued or purples for shadow.

Mark Szymanski
11-15-2016, 08:16 PM
Don't you just hate when you paint a good picture and then can't get the camera to record it properly? :(

Some really nice stuff happening in the picture. I like the foil on the bottle, and some of the gradations in the cloth on the table are very nice - I can sense the stiffness in the cloth... cool.

Other areas were a "swing and a miss" though. They were almost where they needed to be.

There were a few things which caught my eye right off.

First - What is the subject? The apples, the wine, the holder, the knife or the table cloth? Each area has the same amount of attention given to it. If it is the apples, then one apple should predominate over the whole picture. It should be the "thing" which you notice right off.

Second - where is your light source? ... I can't quite get any shadow line going here.

Those are the big two which are not making this picture sing as well as it might.

There are other smaller issues here and there. For example, you have a great number of tangents within the design. I have circled a few, but there are more.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_tangents.jpg

Generally, tangents are detrimental to a composition.

Something else to consider is all of your fruit shapes are exactly the same... same size, generally the same orientation, catching the light in the same way. You could vary the size, color, and shape more. Also I think the center apple in the bowl is occupying space which the left apple should be taking up - the overlap isn't quite correct.

Maybe thinking about the negative spaces between the apple on the table and the bowl, between the knife and the apples, and some of the folds would help the design a bit. The placement of the apple on the table is a bit unfortunate.

I agree with the others who've said you could have darkened some of your shadows. There are areas which should be in more shadow given how bright you've made the cloth. This kind of goes back to light direction which I have mentioned above. Perspective is off just a touch.

Something I have found curious is that you've placed a knife within the composition and yet didn't cut any of the apples. This would have given you an opportunity to change the shape of an apple and help to move some different shapes into the composition.

Below is just a quick work up of some of the ideas above. I am not happy with this particular composition, but it does have a few elements which work - personally I would look at this as a starting point, then tweak what I don't like - for example, I am not a fan of the Left apple, but I like how the slices echo the and emphasize the curve of the plate.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2016/1765836-wine_and_apples_redone3.jpg

The shots of bright green in the bottle help to build its translucency, lightening this area with just a few bits of color. Catching some shadow under the plate/bowl, helps to separate it from the cloth. Varying the size of the apples in the bowl helps to add variety to the painting. Changing the apple slices orientation helps to do the same while having similar color structure.

Personally, I think this would be more striking with the light angling in from the above left, but it certainly is quite challenging to have the light coming from where I believe you're attempting to place it.

Keep up the good work!:clap:

barillas
11-15-2016, 10:01 PM
I've liked your strokes

Ian_Myford
11-19-2016, 05:06 AM
Firstly Many thanks for all the comments. i really take on board the comments here. I am totally unable to judge my own paintings beyond continually seeing what is wrong with them.

Couple of things about this

This is my first attempt at still life - I don't normally do this.

Secondly Watercolor is my worst medium. I don't like working it.

I find working clothing/sheets etc difficult

The composition is not mine, it's from a photograph I didn't take.

The perspective I agree is not quite correct, but I feel it didn't matter here as color is the main subject here not the objects themselves. Large areas of cool colors balanced with some hit-you-in-the-face warm colors.

Just playing really and here's some more playing.

And now for something completely different - The same scene in Post Modernist style (I think)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/200612-apples-and-wine2.jpg

The whole thing done with a size 10 round brush. It took me about one and half hours, the previous one took me about one and half days. I used up the paint on the palate from the previous painting.

Talk about outside my comfort zone this really is

Comments please and don't spare the negatives.

PS I really need to get better at photographing my paintings, they look different here.

Ian_Myford
11-19-2016, 05:31 AM
Lovely comments and thanks for the effort
- Thanks Mark

Ian_Myford
11-19-2016, 05:33 AM
Thanks for all the links Joy - I appreciate it

Love the comments re the cloth.

Mark Szymanski
11-19-2016, 01:58 PM
On your "Post Modern" version of wine and apples... probably should start this as a new thread if you're looking for crit's on this new version of the painting. But, since you've placed it here, I'll say a few things.

Brushwork.
Looks as if you cat-licked the paper. Many touches in the same spaces gives a lack of boldness to the brushwork. Looking at the Left hand apple, I see sooo many tentative strokes here. All the green arrows describe strokes laid on after it was partially dried and color was removed. This decreases the power of each subsequent stroke. The way it appears to me to be painted is you placed an undercolor, then chose a red and repeatedly placed the brush on the paper to try an adjust. Then it appears you've placed a yellow which was later muddied on top of white area which was left. I see maybe three or four touches here. I notice how the watercolor has pooled at the bottom (lowest pink arrow) and you've left that dark curve in the middle of the apple instead of letting it gradate down as a shadow would to the bottom curve of the apple. The stem suffers the same fate, it looks like it was placed as if you had made it too wide, then wiped it and reset it smaller. This causes a differing type of brushwork in a very narrow area even though it is the same basic element.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_apple_closeup_brushwork.jpg

Now if you compare the apple to that wonderful yellow swipe just below the apple, look how powerful that sweep of the brush was. It picked up a bit of red which has a natural gradation to it. There is also a variety in the thickness of the strokes and that cool little breaking of the pigment on the left side of the as it tails off. That stroke was a powerful stroke because there were fewer adjustments and more confidence.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_yellow_closeup_brushwork.jpg

Mass shapes.

Looking at the values you've used....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_blackandwhite.jpg

The changes in values are minimal. This works against your color arrangement. Because all the values are so similar no one area is vibrating for your attention.

All of that tentative brushwork makes all of the masses compete with one another. If some areas were more flatly painted, it is likely one thing wouldn't compete so much with everything else for attention. Using watercolors inherent gradation across the surface could work for you in this instance I think.

Design....

Since you've stuck with the basic design of the original photo, you've got some of the same limitations the original photo has. In this case there is an opportunity to lose that darned black line across the bowl. While I agree the straightness of the line helps to show off the curves of the apples, this darkness on the blade and handle is somewhat overpowering. A simple, single swipe using the fullness and thinness of the brush (twisting it as you work around and behind the apples) in one single determined stroke would have done more to contrast the apples than a blurred black line faded and curving with the shape of the plate. Besides, the straightness of the wine bottle holder and the bottle itself helps to offset any gracefulness elsewhere.

Lastly,
These types of studies are important so you can work through different ideas, figure out what works and what doesn't work so well. I commend you for getting outside your comfort zone and experimenting with alternate ways to approach a subject.:clap:

~JMW~
11-19-2016, 04:01 PM
I like the loose version better, but the apples are still so close to the same size/shape/colors... mix it up for interest..?? add a green granny smith or a bright yellow apple to kick it up a notch?

Ian_Myford
11-20-2016, 04:12 AM
On your "Post Modern" version of wine and apples... probably should start this as a new thread if you're looking for crit's on this new version of the painting. But, since you've placed it here, I'll say a few things.

Brushwork.
Looks as if you cat-licked the paper. Many touches in the same spaces gives a lack of boldness to the brushwork. Looking at the Left hand apple, I see sooo many tentative strokes here. All the green arrows describe strokes laid on after it was partially dried and color was removed. This decreases the power of each subsequent stroke. The way it appears to me to be painted is you placed an undercolor, then chose a red and repeatedly placed the brush on the paper to try an adjust. Then it appears you've placed a yellow which was later muddied on top of white area which was left. I see maybe three or four touches here. I notice how the watercolor has pooled at the bottom (lowest pink arrow) and you've left that dark curve in the middle of the apple instead of letting it gradate down as a shadow would to the bottom curve of the apple. The stem suffers the same fate, it looks like it was placed as if you had made it too wide, then wiped it and reset it smaller. This causes a differing type of brushwork in a very narrow area even though it is the same basic element.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_apple_closeup_brushwork.jpg

Now if you compare the apple to that wonderful yellow swipe just below the apple, look how powerful that sweep of the brush was. It picked up a bit of red which has a natural gradation to it. There is also a variety in the thickness of the strokes and that cool little breaking of the pigment on the left side of the as it tails off. That stroke was a powerful stroke because there were fewer adjustments and more confidence.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_yellow_closeup_brushwork.jpg

Mass shapes.

Looking at the values you've used....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2016/1765836-Wine_and_apples_blackandwhite.jpg

The changes in values are minimal. This works against your color arrangement. Because all the values are so similar no one area is vibrating for your attention.

All of that tentative brushwork makes all of the masses compete with one another. If some areas were more flatly painted, it is likely one thing wouldn't compete so much with everything else for attention. Using watercolors inherent gradation across the surface could work for you in this instance I think.

Design....

Since you've stuck with the basic design of the original photo, you've got some of the same limitations the original photo has. In this case there is an opportunity to lose that darned black line across the bowl. While I agree the straightness of the line helps to show off the curves of the apples, this darkness on the blade and handle is somewhat overpowering. A simple, single swipe using the fullness and thinness of the brush (twisting it as you work around and behind the apples) in one single determined stroke would have done more to contrast the apples than a blurred black line faded and curving with the shape of the plate. Besides, the straightness of the wine bottle holder and the bottle itself helps to offset any gracefulness elsewhere.

Lastly,
These types of studies are important so you can work through different ideas, figure out what works and what doesn't work so well. I commend you for getting outside your comfort zone and experimenting with alternate ways to approach a subject.:clap:

Mark
This is great comments and I really appreciate the time you spent on this.

As you can see I'm not good at Post Modernism but I gave it a go to see if I could "Get it".

I watched this youtube video for all the pointers before I attempted this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fax0PNoPHOM

Little story here for you.

yesterday my wife and I had a few guests in, we had a buffet in the dining room so I put up my first painting where it could be seen (literally over the food) and nobody commented on it. Half way through the evening I changed it to the Post Modern version and an 11 year old came up and told me he liked the painting. Nobody else did.

Anyone want to buy some art equipment?

Ian_Myford
11-20-2016, 06:00 AM
Another problem with this type of painting is that I don't know when to stop.

picassolite
11-22-2016, 03:14 AM
The technical comments I agree with. Having said that -

I see - when you paint fast - you paint better.

In other words your fast painting is more alive, vibrant and unpredictable.

Could be the start of something good.

Picassolite (https://focuspointshape.com/jurors-corner/is-gouache-the-magic-watercolor-bullet/)

:clap:

Yvonne Keogh
11-22-2016, 08:02 AM
The technical comments I agree with. Having said that -

I see - when you paint fast - you paint better.

In other words your fast painting is more alive, vibrant and unpredictable.

Could be the start of something good.

Picassolite (https://focuspointshape.com/jurors-corner/is-gouache-the-magic-watercolor-bullet/)

:clap:

I think the best paintings that are painted fast come from artists who have done the slow, tedious studies hundreds of times, so often that it becomes second nature, intuitive. Intuition puts the autopilot in control, and all that training done in the past comes out perfectly harmonized in every brushstroke.