PDA

View Full Version : "Bell Island, NL"


d55stb
10-26-2016, 10:33 AM
Hey everyone! I am brand new to WetCanvas and am a self taught artist...been painting for about 8 years now..wanted to start posting some of my work to get some comments, tips and constructive comments. Thanks! This first painting is acrylic and oil, and is a recreation of a photograph taken in Bell Island, Newfoundland and Labrador. the person who requested me to paint the picture, lost her father a year ago and this is where they decided to spread his ashes.

Tom Brown
10-26-2016, 11:27 AM
Would you please post the reference photo, my hunch is that the water is far too light.

gebhm
10-26-2016, 11:41 AM
The water appears as a water fall into a pit. There is something about the way you have painted it. Possibly it is to high on the horizon. At the horizon line it appears to dip down then back up. Definately need a reference photo to figure it out.

d55stb
10-26-2016, 01:41 PM
yes, i will post the original photograph asap..thanks!

d55stb
10-26-2016, 01:47 PM
original photo..please give me some tips on how i can fix it without ruining the whole thing or having to start from the beginning.

Tom Brown
10-26-2016, 02:50 PM
Ok, duh, now I get it. It's FOG, not water. I'd lose the strong shadow below the left cliff face.

d55stb
10-26-2016, 07:26 PM
Fog? There isn't any fog in the original picture. It is all ocean. Do you mean to brighten up the black that I have on the botton of the left cliff? Closest to the grey gravel? Should I darken the water where it meets the shore? to make it not look so waterfall like?

d55stb
10-26-2016, 07:33 PM
The water appears as a water fall into a pit. There is something about the way you have painted it. Possibly it is to high on the horizon. At the horizon line it appears to dip down then back up. Definately need a reference photo to figure it out.



Any further comments on this after I posted the original? I am stuck on how to fix this....would making the ocean all the same color without any dark/light spots help?

Mark Szymanski
10-26-2016, 08:42 PM
Lot's of nice stuff here. The sky is quite well done, there is a lot of detail you've placed in the distant rocks in the painting.

Looking at the photo, I see several areas which I think are perhaps misread, or maybe could be re-observed.

When I look at the painting I see some rather significant differences from the drawing which are detracting from the design.

I think you've truncated the cliff a bit too much which is unfortunately opening up the bay

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach_photo_cliff_out_in_water.jpg

By shortening this area so it isn't thrust so far into the water has consequences for other portions of the picture, which I get to shortly. The other half of the equation is the cliff on the right. Since you've changed the angles and it's placement you've changed the whole rhythm within the painting.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach_photo_right_cliff.jpg

By having it drop so straight down rather than angle downwards, you've decreased the available overlap to help give depth to the painting. The maximum penetration of the water on the beach has been changed a great deal. The decrease in beach depth forces the change in the small creek leading down to the waters edge as well as the mounded sand at the base of the cliff with the sweeping curve.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach_photo_waterline.jpg

This is unfortunate because the beach depth has been changed elsewhere... it is too shallow... in the photo, you have the beach in a great deal different location. This also has to do with the darks vs. the lights.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach_photo_area_in_shadow.jpg

The light coming from out over the water should be blocked by the cliff face... right now, you have where should be in shadow quite bright. This decreases the availability to create contrast between the brightness of the water and the shore and the cliff. The red area shows where the cliff is being lit only by reflected light which is much less powerful and thus the cliff face should be darker.

The lighted area is located elsewhere...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach_photo_where_light_reaches.jpg

The cliff is casting a shadow on the inside face, and that shadow is reinforcing the shape of the cliff which is curved inwards almost reminds me of a bell shape. Since the waves eat away at the base of the cliff this is quite common to have this shape... I see it all the time when I visit the Keweenaw Peninsula in Michigan - same sort of shapes all over there. The shadow has to follow the form upon which it is cast.

To get back to a point I was talking about earlier, I think decreasing the size of the cliff out in the water and the shape of the right hand cliff has implications when it comes to the rhythm shapes within this landscape.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1765836-big_beach_photo_rhythm.jpg

There are all these wonderful lines available to be used here and could be used to give grace to a painting which I feel has a great deal already going for it. These graceful curves help to lend a peacefulness to the design, and in my mind make it just right to remember someone who must have been a wonderful person.

These sound all like major changes, but really they're not. A move of a bit of cliff, increasing the beach depth, and changing the right cliff shape will help. Working on the shadow vs light will give greater impact to the sky because you will have given a light source to the painting. Thinking about the rhythm will increase the unity and help to give the painting the flavor which I believe you're after. There are some great colors here, a nice color harmony, and you've shown you have the know how to place paint with delicacy and accuracy. Keep up the good work!

KolinskyRed
10-26-2016, 10:04 PM
d55stb,

I'm thinking that it's all about the value contrasts between things, and how that affects the painting. That's the big thing. For me, I don't think it's the ocean. The secondary thing is the structural strokes for the wave on the gravel beach, and within the wave front need to re-orient to show it's climbing the gently sloping beach. With the structural brush stokes right now, it looks like the wave front is going downward. There is also structure in the cliff bit lower right corner that is missing in the painting.... and this bit of cliff could use a bit more of a textured edge?

Here's your photo in B&W:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1088132-Belle_Isle_2.jpg

And here's a few comparisons:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/1088132-Belle_Isle.jpg

I would leave the ocean as-is (that's just me)... only editing out most of the hi-light that is quite near where the wave breaks. The high light on the water at present contributes to the idea of form and the wave reading as dropping downward.

Note in the B&W photo how value changes describe the form of the inside of the cliff face on the left around and above the bay -- compare it in your B&W painting and the B&W photo. Note in the painting that the beach gravel may be too light, and the wet gravel in front of the wave too dark. Just suggestions. These could be contributing to the present visual effects.

Phew... I hope this helps give you some ideas. Cheers

~JMW~
10-26-2016, 10:39 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/50585-thumbnail_IMG_0257.jpg

I had to crop & edit a bit to see it better, I see others did that too...

I see why you painted the beach wave area the way you did, per the photo.. but it is appearing to me as a downward sloping surf.
If you can flatten it out so it appears flat to viewers it would be less confusing.

Then adjust the values of the 2 cliffs so there is more distinction of a near & far distance.
As others showed make the cliff rugged and stronger all the way to the water, study on it and you will see how the lines & edges need to be..
Don't try to fix anything until you can see the lines, angles, edges clearly in your mind..
LOL that sound spacey but it works for me.. I call it my painting zone.. when it all comes together nicely, and as long as I don't bork it...by fiddling too much..

Tom Brown
10-26-2016, 11:41 PM
I still say it's fog.

Big Al 444
10-27-2016, 12:43 AM
I think that photo is a longer exposure so the waves get "smoothed out" as they move during the exposure. Makes it look soft like fog.

The water is the my main issue as well. There is a scale and depth problem there. At first I though it was a waterfall. There seems to be a lack of shading giving the water distance and scale. The piece of land on the right looks like a more distance, large cliff face. The photo shows it as very close to the camera. The far cliff face is too brightly lit where it curves away from the sun. You need some shadow in that area to give it shape. I added some shadow areas here and there. Tried to make the water "lines" more horizontal.

There is a bright spot in the water on the right which looks like a raised area in the water. I toned it down. The last thing for me is make sure to paint your cliff edges ON TOP of the water. That will help push the water back. Hope this helps a little. Pretty good effort overall. I also like the sky.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/34986-attachment.jpeg

La_
10-27-2016, 02:46 AM
what looks a little odd/unusual in a photo will look more odd in a painting and you've shaped it oddly, much like the photo, good job.
oils will easily adjust the light/shadow issues so be gentle and hone in the values.

unaltered visuals attached

la

d55stb
10-27-2016, 09:03 AM
oh my god..THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! such amazing help... i wish I had you by my side for every painting...this helps me so much

d55stb
10-27-2016, 01:04 PM
I think that photo is a longer exposure so the waves get "smoothed out" as they move during the exposure. Makes it look soft like fog.

The water is the my main issue as well. There is a scale and depth problem there. At first I though it was a waterfall. There seems to be a lack of shading giving the water distance and scale. The piece of land on the right looks like a more distance, large cliff face. The photo shows it as very close to the camera. The far cliff face is too brightly lit where it curves away from the sun. You need some shadow in that area to give it shape. I added some shadow areas here and there. Tried to make the water "lines" more horizontal.

There is a bright spot in the water on the right which looks like a raised area in the water. I toned it down. The last thing for me is make sure to paint your cliff edges ON TOP of the water. That will help push the water back. Hope this helps a little. Pretty good effort overall. I also like the sky.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/34986-attachment.jpeg

thanks so much for this image...helps so much

d55stb
10-27-2016, 02:21 PM
I think that photo is a longer exposure so the waves get "smoothed out" as they move during the exposure. Makes it look soft like fog.

The water is the my main issue as well. There is a scale and depth problem there. At first I though it was a waterfall. There seems to be a lack of shading giving the water distance and scale. The piece of land on the right looks like a more distance, large cliff face. The photo shows it as very close to the camera. The far cliff face is too brightly lit where it curves away from the sun. You need some shadow in that area to give it shape. I added some shadow areas here and there. Tried to make the water "lines" more horizontal.



There is a bright spot in the water on the right which looks like a raised area in the water. I toned it down. The last thing for me is make sure to paint your cliff edges ON TOP of the water. That will help push the water back. Hope this helps a little. Pretty good effort overall. I also like the sky.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2016/34986-attachment.jpeg

Thank you! ..when you say to paint the cliff edges on top of the water...do you mean for me to fix the water first...and then fix the cliffs..? I am planning to do this anyways because (and i am fearful this will make it harder to fix the painting) the water and sky is all done in acrylic paint...the cliffs are done in oil paint. And is it true that you cannot paint acrylic over oil?. This might mean that I will have to make the cliff on the right a little higher in order to make the angles, instead of cutting off the curve on the top and filling it in with water because Im not sure the acrylic paint will go over the greenery in oil. its not fully dry yet so perhaps I can just wipe off the oil?? any thoughts on this?

~JMW~
10-27-2016, 06:12 PM
Acrylics can be under oils , but they will not stick/bond if you try to use on top of oils...

When you redo the wave area be sure to keep the strokes level so more appearance of flat water.

d55stb
10-27-2016, 06:46 PM
does anyone have any tips on how I can make the cliff on the right look more close up , as it is in the photograph? not sure how to make it look like rocks and gravel...thats why I just made it look grassy.. thanks again...this is all helping me so much

truebeliever
10-28-2016, 02:23 AM
I like the painting better than the photo...

All the advice telling you to spell out how the sand and the water and the cliff goes is just making the picture generic. As it is in the first photo, it's very strange, not quite surreal but more uncanny, as in Freud's interpretation of the uncanny.

I like that there looks to be several "worlds" going on at the same time, it's a good thing. Why would you want it to look like the photograph? Redundant.

Yvonne Keogh
10-28-2016, 12:08 PM
This is great learning for me too. The cliff on the right is competing with the cliff in the background. I've learned to use more saturated colours in foreground and black in the foreground (if I use black at all). Also we see sharper edges in the foreground and more fuzzy in the back. If you wanted to push back the back cliff you could dull the colours with a transparent glaze of white and neutralize the the details - then automatically the cliff on the right would stand out more. But aesthetically I think the more interesting focal point is the background where the cliff meets the sea. I wouldn't change it.

Tom Brown
10-29-2016, 09:45 AM
OK, I know I'm a minority of one on this, BUT, I really think you are painting a photo of sea fog rolling in. Like in this attached photo. It happens all the time in NL. If it is water, then it was a very long exposure. I'll shut up now.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Oct-2016/1986439-IMG_8835.PNG

La_
10-29-2016, 03:34 PM
ha, tom, i agree with you, given the gentle lumpy softness on the water
but that doesn't really matter as it's the shadow/light that's making the waterfall effect that's messing with the comp.

la

Tom Brown
10-31-2016, 06:57 AM
My quickie photoshop rendition. Left to right changes:
Darken bright rock face, add wave foam from where water comes into view below fog, reflect sky color in wet sand of ebbing wave, lose dark edge defining right hand cliff, add contrast and harder edges to right hand cliff. Add some pink and gold to distant fog.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2016/1986439-IMG_8858.PNG

Mark Szymanski
11-03-2016, 09:12 PM
does anyone have any tips on how I can make the cliff on the right look more close up , as it is in the photograph? not sure how to make it look like rocks and gravel...thats why I just made it look grassy.. thanks again...this is all helping me so much

This is an interesting question, and there are as many ways to do this as there are people painting. With that idea understood, this would be one way to approach it... from a realistic perspective. Please understand, I am doing this with a free program called "Paint.net", and it is basically just Microsoft Paint program with a very few upgrades, so it is quite rough...

First off I messed around with the water and the beach, just to reset the values and the planes, since they were distracting my eye just a bit too much.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2016/1765836-big_beach1.jpg

This allows me to next look at the main color masses and value masses on the right hand cliff. I block those main areas out with the colors and values... I think of these as the mid tone background - some areas will be lighter, some will be darker, but the average will be around these values.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2016/1765836-big_beach2.jpg

You can see I have just placed the beginnings of the rock shapes on top of the background colors. I purposefully placed the values just for the rocks the smallest bit lighter than the background color. Because it is in shadow this is all in reflected light. There are some variances in the colors of some rocks, just because in nature, there is no areas the same color for very long. There are a few areas outlined with just a bit of shadow to help delineate some spots. I try to remember, there is a slope to this cliff, some rocks face down the slope as they have broken and slid down, some are still horizontal-ish, but there is a definite pattern to the angles within the rocks.



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2016/1765836-big_beach3.jpg

Here there are many more areas with just a slight value change. I placed a lighter value on those portions of the rocks which would be the brightest. This isn't the final value, but it is a step towards that direction. More shadows have also been placed. The brighter spots are designed to direct the eye where I want it to go. I can adjust this idea easily in subsequent steps, but this is the point when I would decide a larger rock would go here, a more reflective rock here, a series of reflective rocks here, sharp vs soft, etc



This image of the cliff is approaching a more finished state. Glazes of color will help to change individual rocks, soften edges by the water where the glare would soften an edge, push certain rocks backwards, give a glow to the rocks I choose.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2016/1765836-big_beach4.jpg

The rocks will be different shapes, and grouped in unique ways, the problem I must always watch for is having rocks the same size, or same shapes, exactly the same colors, or the same distance apart. Spots of light counteract other lines within the rock. I try to have some rocks tipped on their sides a bit, some balanced precariously, some in the shadow of other rocks so only an unexpected portion is lit. Variety,and yet unity - a struggle.




Below is a rough finishing of the rest of the painting with the values closer to what is necessary to make the way I worked on the right side cliff be in harmony with the left side of the picture.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2016/1765836-big_beach5.jpg

Again, this is only a rough approximation, and is only one of a great many possible approaches to working on the painting. I placed only the most rudimentary of colors in here, as well as left large areas under worked.

When working with rocks, I try to stay vague as long as possible, and only towards the end start to harden the edges which need to be hardened. However, that is my personal approach, and may not be the way you wish to work this painting up.