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Verdaccio
07-05-2001, 01:47 AM
Just wanted to let folks know....I have a painting that I am doing under deadline - have to get it to the printer next week. To speed drying time in the overpainting, I have had a table fan blowing on it 24 hrs a day. I estimate that the drying time (with no chemical dryers added) is speeded up by about 1/4 - some areas are touchable dry in about 24 hours. :)

Luis Guerreiro
07-05-2001, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Verdaccio
Just wanted to let folks know....I have a painting that I am doing under deadline - have to get it to the printer next week. To speed drying time in the overpainting, I have had a table fan blowing on it 24 hrs a day. I estimate that the drying time (with no chemical dryers added) is speeded up by about 1/4 - some areas are touchable dry in about 24 hours. :)

Michael,
You know those little electric things called Thermo-Fan's. I'm sure they are available in the USA. They look like little boxes, have an electric resistance to produce heat and a group of two fans to blow the heat around a room. I use one of those (Phillips) set to low heat and high blow. The air is just lukewarm, but the thrust is quite strong. It dries paintings at a speed that would make the Devil blush of astonishment.
We keep discussing fans... I wish Lady Windermeer was here:D
Luis (Mastic :D)

campsart
07-05-2001, 07:17 PM
Do you end up with any dust particle problems? I have a fan blowing all the time while I work. Sometimes, I'm frustrated with little dust particles that end up on the painting. Some don't get noticed until I glaze. The hot air gun I use with the Genesis colors blows forced hot air. I wish I could remember which individual it was that replied that Genesis colors are really thermoplastics. I read the info given about them at www.studioproducts.com I don't know how to catagorize any paintings I do with this medium. The representative from Genesis I spoke with said they should be classified as oils (although synthetic with a drying agent additive). I absolutely love how they give me greater control over the process and how immediate I can glaze. I wish more would buy the basic palette system as I have and give them a try and let me know what they think. Because I can dry the work so guickly, dust problems are minimized. I use a feather duster...believe it or not...and lightly dust the pic before applying new layers. I had fits with dust when I used traditional oils. By the way...do you cover your painting between sessions? If so, what kind of material would be best to use?

Luis Guerreiro
07-06-2001, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by campsart
Do you end up with any dust particle problems? I have a fan blowing all the time while I work. Sometimes, I'm frustrated with little dust particles that end up on the painting. Some don't get noticed until I glaze. The hot air gun I use with the Genesis colors blows forced hot air. I wish I could remember which individual it was that replied that Genesis colors are really thermoplastics. I read the info given about them at www.studioproducts.com I don't know how to catagorize any paintings I do with this medium. The representative from Genesis I spoke with said they should be classified as oils (although synthetic with a drying agent additive). I absolutely love how they give me greater control over the process and how immediate I can glaze. I wish more would buy the basic palette system as I have and give them a try and let me know what they think. Because I can dry the work so guickly, dust problems are minimized. I use a feather duster...believe it or not...and lightly dust the pic before applying new layers. I had fits with dust when I used traditional oils. By the way...do you cover your painting between sessions? If so, what kind of material would be best to use?

I keep my painting on the easel all the time, as I don't start several paintings at the same time. The thermo-fan sits on a chair or a small stool and I adjust it to point at the canvas. If you put it on the floor it will blow dust, but this way is ok enough. I don't cover the painting, allowing it to "breath". After the last layer however, I use a cotton muslin cloth to cover it and I forget about it for at least 2 weeks. Then I clean it with a little copaiva balsam mix, buff it and leave it for a further week this time uncovered and hang it on my "Maturing Wall". That's the wall my paintings go to mature for at least 3 to 4 months. The painting is then dusted, checked and varnished with a light Damar Varnish. After another week. I then order the frame to measure in RAW wood, because I gild the frames myself. It's cheaper and at the least I know I am using proper gold leaf. That's it really.

Verdaccio
07-06-2001, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by campsart
Do you end up with any dust particle problems? I have a fan blowing all the time while I work. Sometimes, I'm frustrated with little dust particles that end up on the painting. Some don't get noticed until I glaze.

I do "pickin" sessions at the start and end of each day - looking for rouge hairs or particles that I can pick off. I have a HEPA filter in the room, so I don't get much dust in the air. My easel allows me to lean the painting slightly forward which helps with glare and falling particles of dust as well. I don't cover.

Luis Guerreiro
07-10-2001, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Verdaccio


I do "pickin" sessions at the start and end of each day - looking for rouge hairs or particles that I can pick off. I have a HEPA filter in the room, so I don't get much dust in the air. My easel allows me to lean the painting slightly forward which helps with glare and falling particles of dust as well. I don't cover.

Michael, I've never heard of HEPA filters. Are they complicated to install? Maybe they are available in the UK...
Another thing I'd like to ask, although I think I've seen one of your notes somewhere (I just can't find it). What is your mix for the underpainting? Also do you mix the colours and thin them with turps? I am having this problem you know... I use only flake white and ivory black for mixing a scale of 9 grey values. I mix the colours first and then add a little turps, but an increasing number of authors has been adverting students against this as it is difficult to control adhesiveness qualities by thining with turps. My canvases are usually oil primed, so I am not keen on using alkyds for the underpainting either. I'm stuck. Can you help please?
Thanks
Luis
Any input from other colleagues much welcome obviously.

Verdaccio
07-10-2001, 09:20 PM
Hello Luis! I bought a freestanding air filter that is HEPA rated - means that it pulls stuff out of the air like down to the micron. You can probably get something similar in the U.K.

As for the underpainting mix, I would use Mars Black instead of Ivory - Mars is a leaner color. This will create your grays somewhat blue, so you may want to neutralize them with Raw Sienna on the dark end and Yellow Ochre in the middle and light end.

As for turps, yes I think you have to be careful about how much turps you use. I use Liquin in my underpainting, but you could easily get by with a Stand Oil and turps combination - be sure to mix the stand oil and turps (rectified) into the piles first - that way you control the volume. More stand oil than turps - maybe 60/40? Add no more of 20% of this to your piles - 80% paint, 20% of this medium. This won't dry quite overnight, but it should be paintable within two days.

shawn gibson
07-20-2001, 12:31 PM
Verdaccio, thanks for this idea. I just wanted to say I've been putting my panels on the outside of my apartment, on the balcony where the air conditioner blasts hot air...it has made a tremendous difference!!! Sunlight, indirect, too...

My madders are finger-applied, still drying in less than several days, to touch...AND...not extra dirt yet!!!

Thanks again. shawn:)

Elisabeth
07-20-2001, 05:42 PM
I have a friend who uses the "car trunk" method and swears by it. She puts her painting in the trunk for a day or two and its dry. The "heat" from being sealed in the trunk on a hot day, quickly drys the paint and you don't have to worry about the dust particles that you can get from the fan.

blackdragon
07-25-2001, 01:12 PM
I like the Idea, but what do you do with the lug wrench, spare tire, gas can, aunt Sophie........;>)
All kidding aside, the fumes from any gas cans, could cause problems. Also, some of the cars that some of us can afford, not only have dust problems (holes, old flower pots, etc), but they also allow the painting to slide around during the get away. LOL

black_dragon :p :p :evil:

shawn gibson
07-25-2001, 01:17 PM
>>>but what do you do with the lug wrench, spare tire, gas can, aunt Sophie........;>)


Mixed media/oil on canvas of course!!!

shawn:)

timelady
07-25-2001, 02:25 PM
On an interesting side note (since humidity was brought up), I havne't been able to paint with my oils this week much. It's been quite hot and somewhat humid in London lately and I find my paints (with some liquin) are literally drying on the palette (Going clumpy and dry, not completely drying out - my oils are usually the consistency of jello pudding (chocolate)). I wouldn have thought the humidity would have prevented drying.

Tina.

Pen
07-25-2001, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by timelady
On an interesting side note (since humidity was brought up), I havne't been able to paint with my oils this week much. It's been quite hot and somewhat humid in London lately and I find my paints (with some liquin) are literally drying on the palette (Going clumpy and dry, not completely drying out - my oils are usually the consistency of jello pudding (chocolate)). I wouldn have thought the humidity would have prevented drying.

Tina.

Boy, I sure understand that. I live in Florida, and three days ago I primed a canvas with a thin coat of flake white and turps and it still isn't dry. sigh...

ldallen
07-26-2001, 08:23 AM
I'm glad this came up. I in the South too, and am working on an underpainting of a portrait using flake white and having fits!!

Luis if there is a "Sears" (or probably any applicance store) in the U.K. that would be the place to look for a HEPA filter. I also have a free standing HEPA filter and it really does help cut down on the dust. Just plug it into the wall.

Minibrush
07-26-2001, 08:58 AM
Dust...the bain of a miniature artist. One day I had just varnished several minis, layed them out to dry and a big gust of wind came in the door of my studio and "dusted" all of the wet paintings. I was able to save them, but what a scare. We have so much dust a HEPA filter runs in fear.

Here in Colorado, drying time is generally faster than I'd like. My studio is a "lean-to" built on the side of my house, and our cooler is vented through the studio. This gives me a constant soft breeze that not only dries the oils quickly, but pushes the air past me and my easel to the outside. Two birds in one. But I've learned to place wet paintings in a cardboard box with a lid, to keep the dust bunnies away from wet paint. The cardboard breathes, but protects the wet paint.

Minibrush

blackdragon
07-26-2001, 12:45 PM
Since I'm new to oils, and just out of curiosity, what is the total time for a full cure of the oils (average time)? How long before the painting can be safely displayed? Is there a method of determining when this occures? (other than the finger smudge test).

Verdaccio
07-26-2001, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by blackdragon
Since I'm new to oils, and just out of curiosity, what is the total time for a full cure of the oils (average time)? How long before the painting can be safely displayed? Is there a method of determining when this occures? (other than the finger smudge test).

That depends on several factors including the thickness of the paint, the oil vehicle that it was mixed in, and the humidity and atmospheric conditions where the painting is at. And finally, are you using any driers or mediums that accelerate or slow drying?

Oil paint doesn't "dry" per se, it cures. There is a chemical change in the oil as it goes from viscous liquid, to that final leather-like surface. It is caused by exposure to oxygen.

Thickness - clearly, a thin stroke of oil paint will dry quicker than a thick impasto stroke.

Vehicle - paints mixed in linseed oil dry differently than paints mixed in walnut oil, safflower oil, or poppy oil. Also, the pigment itself lends to drying time - lead white dries much faster than other pigments due to the lead.

Humidity and atmosphere - oil paint is touch dry quicker in Colorado than it does in Florida or Virginia. This has to do with the humidity in the air. Heat and airflow can also effect it.

Driers and Mediums - I use liquin on my underpainting which touch dries over night. My medium also slightly accelerates drying because it contains turpentine which vents off and increases oxygenation.

So here in Colorado, a thin stroke of most oil paint is touch dry in about a day and a half - no drier's or mediums added. I think that time could as much as double in Virginia or Florida. Thicker strokes, add time. Most of my work is touch dry and safely displayable within one week of completion because of my medium.

ldallen
07-26-2001, 06:54 PM
Hi Minibrush!!

Hmmmm. Maybe I should move to Colorado!!? That's a great idea - putting your paintings under a cardboard box. Of course yours are tiny. But if I did that here, they would probably never dry! I put one of mine right under the air vent on top of our shelves - it'll probably be one big dustball when I take it down.