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mickeyw3340
07-03-2015, 10:51 AM
Which papers don't work well with wet applications such as Turpenoid or Alcohol, etc?

Barbara WC
07-03-2015, 03:40 PM
Two that I know of:

Any of the uncoated pastel papers, such as Canson Mi-tientes and Fabriano. These will warp, even if you tape the sides down like one does with watercolor paper (at least that's my experience).

The other is Sennelier LaCarte. La Carte is actually a vegetable flake material that is glued to a card material. They use a water soluble glue that will dissolve when water is used. HOWEVER, I have had success using 90% rubbing alcohol on the paper to do an underpainting. Learned this from someone here on wetcanvas. I can't remember who. Anyway, the tricks are to use only a small amount of liquid, a really soft brush (I use a watercolor Hake brush), not to rub hard on the surface, and to let it dry before reapplying pastel. I've also used spray fixative on this paper, lightly applied and has to be dry before going back with pastel. Sennelier La Carte gets a bad rap for how fragile it is, but it's one of my favorite surfaces and I've not had the problems that others have had with it...

If you are looking for a rugged paper that you can do underpaintings with and scrubbing, you might look to either UArt or the new Pastel Premier... Wallis is the champ for underpaintings, but it's not much available any more...

mudfish
07-03-2015, 08:53 PM
Art Spectrum Colourfix will stand up to any punishment you can dream up, including a garden hose. Just got some Pastel Premier but haven't tried it yet.

Moqui Steps
07-03-2015, 09:26 PM
This previous thread of mine has loads of info on Pastel Premier papers.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1376822&highlight=pastel+premier

Pastel Premier: Water and OMS are OK. Alcohol will soften the adhesive but you can get away with LIGHT use of alcohol. I still avoid it with Pastel Premier as it changed the tooth every time I tried it. It will wrinkle more than UArt with water.

UArt can handle alcohol, water and OMS. Fisher 400 can handle all three as well.

My favorite underpainting media - Dr. Martin Bombay colored India Inks.

allydoodle
07-03-2015, 11:31 PM
Wallis is the champ for underpaintings, but it's not much available any more...

Actually, not so much regarding Wallis Pro. The Museum Grade paper was supposed to be great for wet underpaintings, but the Pro Grade warped badly. Also, both the Museum and Pro did/does not tolerate alcohol well, the surface gums up and you will loose the tooth. That being said, Wallis Pro and Museum was a great paper, and if you have any of it around use it with confidence, just don't use it with alcohol (or Pro with wet of any kind). (I think the exception to that rule is if the Pro is properly mounted on gatorboard or foamcore it can take water and turpenoid fine, but alcohol needs to be used with caution.) I know Richard McKinley used turpenoid on Wallis with much success, I'm just not sure if he used it on the Pro (again, the Museum Grade was fine with wet underpaintings - excluding alcohol).

UArt is a workhorse of a surface, it takes water, alcohol and turpenoid with no issues. It doesn't even buckle, it's great.

Devonlass
07-04-2015, 08:51 AM
I believe your best bets are Fisher 400 and Uart.

mickeyw3340
07-04-2015, 10:18 AM
Thanks All. Y'all are the best!

Barbara WC
07-04-2015, 02:52 PM
Thanks Chris for correcting me! I've only used Wallis a few times, and I did use it with OMS a couple of times and alcohol once. I didn't notice any bad effects with the alcohol, but I had only used it once...

I'm not sure which Wallis I had used- the local art store had some on sale, and I picked up a couple of sheets... That was when i was first venturing into sanded papers. I might have used a light touch when doing the underpaintings...

I have used UArt with Alcohol for toning paper, and that one I know for sure can take a lot of abuse- at Diane Rappisi's workshop a few weeks ago, she had us tone our UArt with pastel. I scrubbed in pastel into a full sheet of UArt, being very generous with the alcohol and wasn't particularly delicate with the brush... I had not toned a large sheet of UArt before that, but had done light underpaintings with alcohol...

Donald- isn't that strange. I just did a painting on Pastel Premier 320 grit. I'm not used to using such a gritty surface, so I used 70% alcohol to scrub in the first layers of pastel push the pastel into the surface. I didn't notice any change in the surface...