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View Full Version : To resist or not that is the question


msue
06-09-2000, 09:15 AM
<FONT COLOR="Maroon"><FONT size="4">To help kick start this area in the more active mode, above is the question. Do you prefer to save your whites with resist and why or paint around the whites, and why?</FONT s></FONT c>

rapolina
06-09-2000, 11:19 AM
Do you mean if we use frisket or not and why ?

Ciao, rapolina http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Rod
06-09-2000, 03:18 PM
<FONT COLOR="Blue">I use frisket and also sometimes paint around. If you wish to save a small white area amongst a large background on which you need to apply washes etc, then frisket or masking fluid is essential. Edges of saved area can be softened afterwards if necessary. Using a small brush complicated shapes can be kept which without the use of frisket would be difficult to paint around.</FONT c>
Rod



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Watercolours from New Zealand (http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/rod/)

oleCC
06-09-2000, 04:59 PM
When I started using watercolor years ago, I resented the tradition of not using white paint and saving the white of paper instead.
Now, I agree - the whites of the paper can provide sparkle and life. Sometimes I use frisket, but more often I just paint around.
It usually depends on the size of the areas I want to leave white. Like Rod, I soften the edges where I have used frisket, if necessary.
In a workshop I had recently, I had the students lightly spray frisket with a toothbrush - before starting the project. The end result was a snow blizzard with an old barn etc in the background...worked well!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Carol

Rod
06-09-2000, 08:45 PM
Good idea Carol,
I too use a tooth brush. In a seascape with breaking waves, frisket flicked on gives a good effect of surf. Would be impossible to paint around every speck. I never have white paint prefer the sparkle of the paper,
Rod

BillieD
06-09-2000, 11:02 PM
I am pretty much a novice, and I'm just beginning to get a few results I like with masking material. I still have better luck scraping out highlights, but, takes a steady hand and lots of care to prevent scraping a hole into the paper.

I've found using a CP paper, and lightly scraping with the flat edge of a sinlge edge razorblade, gives incredibly realistic orange peel texture. Works well on rocks, too, where your highlight should be diffused, broken.

msue
06-10-2000, 12:31 AM
Yes, exactly. Forgot many call it frisket.

cagathoc
06-10-2000, 12:49 AM
Frisket- YUCK!

In watercolor brush and paint control is paramount. You will be a better watercolorist if you can control your materials. Practicing saving your white areas can only help you and it looks very fresh.

cindy

oleCC
06-10-2000, 06:45 AM
A word of caution for any beginners using the masking fluid..
If you leave it on your paper too long, it can cause problems when trying to remove it.
Never try to remove it,before the paper is bone dry... and even when it feels dry to your touch, the inner fibers may not be.
Also.. avoid using a hair dryer over masking fluid... you soften and melt the fluid into the paper. There are instructors I have sat under who did not heed this warning, but it only takes one mishap to wreck a piece of hard work, and I have seen that happen.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Carol

Rod
06-10-2000, 03:13 PM
Good point Carol,
Also use an old brush, first rub washing up liquid into the hairs ,this will make cleaning easier and protect it.
Rod

msue
06-10-2000, 11:41 PM
<FONT COLOR="Green">Very interesting all the support for frisket. I have mixed emotions about it. I have had some of the problems Carol mentioned with removal and I also have had white edges left on things that could not be corrected. I tend to paint around my whites more often or use the new Winsor-Newton permanent masking fluid. Its only drawback is you have to be sure you don't won't any paint in that area because as its name indicates it is permanent and you cannot paint in the spot later.</FONT c>

babsalaba2
06-11-2000, 09:37 AM
I started out using masking fluid, but I have stopped using it now. Among other things, I can't stand the smell. Now, I try to paint around my whites. I occasionally use white gouache or scrub out whites if I haven't managed to save them. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
For me, having the option of gouache and lifting out frees me up. I used to get tense when I was painting around the whites- afraid I'd screw up and have to scrap it.
I started out painting in oils, and I tend to paint on a small scale, and very, VERY tight.
Changing to watercolor has helped me to loosen up some.

babs

Gisela
06-11-2000, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by cagathoc:

You will be a better watercolorist if you can control your materials.

cindy


<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Frisket is one of my materials and I can control it. I could not have done my peppers and leaves series without using frisket. It's an integral part of those works. </FONT f>
http://www.artistnation.com/cgi-bin/gallery_browser.cgi?cmd=browse&exhibit_id=4326&mode=thumbnails&cust_id=5171&community=paris

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Those pieces are done in many layers of washes with areas of frisket added in between eace one. I don't use frisket all the time, but it's a valuable tool for some of my work.</FONT f>

Gisela

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http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/gisela

oleCC
06-11-2000, 10:00 PM
Good point Gis.... I have found some folks that were surprised to learn they could use it over dried color - certainly worked well for you on those peppers! Love you site btw. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Carol

rapolina
06-12-2000, 06:26 AM
As you have probably noticed from my message, I am a self-taught and wannabe watercolorist, and I'm painting with this medium since one year (i try to paint a bit every day).
I began with the purest theory, no use of white (and on that i go on, due to my hate to opaque colors) and no use of frisket as I had to learn to control my brush. Going on
painting, I discovered that to be so stiff is uneusfull, as frisket can help painting
peculiar subjects and kill others.
I discovered that the best result (for me) of frisket is applying it over light backgrounds an not only on the white of the paper, and apply more times frisket as the painting goes on.
In this way I painted the barrier reef of the Red Sea, where I had a vacation last may. It was very difficult to define the thin ramage of corals ad the light shadows of colors, so i painted part of them in frisket, then I layed washes of greens and blues, mixed with few pink and yellow; then i drew other corals on the backgronds and so on more times. At the end i kept off the frisket and smoothed some hard edges and adjusted the colors: I am very proud of my painting, as it relass me while I was snorkelling in that wonderful reef.

I used frisket in order to paint peach-tree in flower too or forsitia (yellow bush, I don't know the english name), gettin good results, but now I have no time to tell you what I did. I anyone is interested I will write another time.
ciao, rapolina http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by rapolina (edited June 12, 2000).]

Uubald
06-14-2000, 12:55 AM
Masking liquid: what an invention!
I enjoyed trying it out the first time. Easy.
The result wasnt' as good as I tought it would, but the next attempts worked a lot better. I know now that I didn't use the hard edge the masking fluid gives. I only suffered from it. Now, I know a little more about its properties and effects, so I can use it when I need it.

I received really good advice from a co-worker.
To apply masking luiquid with a b rush is very dangerous to ruin it, even with dishwashing liquid in the brush before. I used those silicone tipped applicators, (one brand is Color Shaper) and even the tip of my brush's handle. The advice my co-worker gave me is to apply the masking luiquid with a "tire-ligne".
I don't know the name of it in english. It's like a caligraphy pen, but it works sideways, and it's adjustable from a microscopic line to a wider line. It works by retaining a drop of liquid (or ink, it's a traditionnal drawing tool, used by graphic designers and illustrators in the past, before tubular graphic pens)
between it's jaws. Very controllable. Impossible to destroy with masking fluid, since it's metal only. Cleans with soap and water, or just a cloth when the liquid is dry.
Would work fine with a regular pen knib...
So many ways, so little time to try em all!

I love to keep my whites without the frisket.
It's just a different (and faster) way to work. I find that applying masking fluid is longer but worth the effort for detailed work.

I did fine tree limbs and textures with fluid I couldn't have done with just the brush.
I use Winsor and Newton masking fluid. The Pebeo stuff tended to be more fragile, cover less, and remove itslef if I dared touch it even lightly. No problem with the Winsor.

I guess I might sum it up by: I use masking when I need it, for the way it works and the effects it gives.


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-But what if I learn too much?
-Nah, there's always a leak anyway...

rapolina
06-14-2000, 04:20 AM
I agree perfectly with Uubald! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif
I don't think it is necessary to be against or for frisket absolutely!

his explanation on the way to apply is very interesting, I also hate the hedges too hard frisket can live, and Uubald's advise are very useful.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif ciao, rapolina

Joe Cartwright
06-17-2000, 05:59 PM
The best advice I have found for using masking fluid is to dip your (old) brush in water before putting it in the masking fluid. It lets you work longer before the fluid dries, I haven't lost a brush since I started doing this.

I don't use masking fluid / frisket as often as I used to but there are times when it is just what is needed.

Joe

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oleCC
06-17-2000, 09:02 PM
I haven't lost a brush yet either..but do have a ritual I use.....
First, wet the brush, then dip in liquid soap right up to the ferrel...lightly rinse, then use frisket. When finished, thoroughly wash the brush with soap and water. I use old brushes and even some good ones occasionally.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Carol
PS: Another good rule.. never stand wet brushes on their handles..lay flat to dry. The bristles inside the ferrel (sp?) can rot
if water has collected inside that metal.

oleCC
06-20-2000, 06:12 PM
Rapolina... I think this is quite lovely - and have only one suggestion that is only my personal opinion ok? I would leave the it all like it is except for the fishes. I think if one or two fish were more distinct, it would give the depth a bit more. Like I said, just my personal opinion though. Nice work and isn't it fun? http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Carol

rapolina
06-21-2000, 12:25 AM
referring to my reply to this topic of the June 12, I send you the image of the painting of the coral reef, that I painted using more layers of frisket and colors.
Any suggestion is welcome-I have to learn-(please don't be too severe, it's the first time I dare to put one of my painting on line as I'm very shy..! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/redface.gif )
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/barriera nuova.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif ciao, rapolina

OPPSS! It doesn't work!
Now I try to put my reef on the critique message forum, hoping to be not wrong!


[This message has been edited by rapolina (edited June 20, 2000).]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/frown.gif I try again once more, <IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/barrieranuova.JPG" border=0>


[This message has been edited by rapolina (edited June 20, 2000).]

rapolina
06-21-2000, 12:57 AM
I succeed, but it has lost a lot of quality!
Can you give me suggestions about attaching files (i read the procedure in critique center...) and how to reduce them (that's too big!).
Ciao, http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/confused.gif rapolina.

rapolina
06-21-2000, 04:14 AM
Thank you carol! it is what I think too, ut i'm not able to paint better fishes!
This paint semms to me uncompleate, I tried fishes but that's the only thing I could do.
As is is quite all painted with nonstainig pigments, I can later modify the fished, after lots of exercises.
Anyway, I'm happy of what you said.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif ciao, rapolina.

ameliajordan
06-21-2000, 09:09 AM
I find using masking liquid can help free me up. For instance, I working on cherry branches and have masked the cherries. This lets me be very free painting the leaves as compared to tightly painting around all those cherries.

Also, I have a tiny "oil can" bottle from Cheap Joes that I put masking fluid in. It let me freely dribble masking fluid here and there over a painting with a very fine line. After the next wash, I could do it again thereby saving tiny amounts of other colors.

Be sure it's very dry before painting over the mask.

msue
06-21-2000, 09:45 PM
Rapolina, you need to resize your photo on your computer then upload it again with a new name. Delete the one you have posted after posting the downsized photo.

Has anyone used rubber cement as a resist. I've read where people have used it, but I don't understand how it doesn't ruin the paper? Anyone know?

juneto
10-02-2004, 11:59 PM
The end justufies the means . If it works use it. Try wiping away with Cotton Balls turning them over and over (wet and squeezed). You can use a template of paper , acetate or a metal template . Then dry with paper towel. If it is not a staining color it will ccome all the way down to white. I would never scrape the paper , It abrad s the fibers. Good Luck

Lighthouser
10-03-2004, 10:10 AM
Re damaging brushes with frisket - if you need to apply very thin lines and small specks of frisket precisely (i.e. not by splattering) I have found what works well is to slit the end of a common wood toothpick with a razorblade. It acts like a disposable nib pen. You can also trim the end of the toothpick back just slightly if the point is too fine.

mhimeswc
10-03-2004, 10:36 AM
I just paint around my whites. I don't have any objections to masking, I'm just not very good at it and I don't like the way it looks when I do it. I've seen wonderful paintings by artists that use the stuff though.

Michelle