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Gigalot
04-17-2015, 06:30 AM
I found a 40 ml tube of oil paint in arts shop, which has a strange pigment index PV29 on it. This tube wasn't an expensive, but I went home to check the pigment type into it. This is Artist's grade oil paint, not a Student stuff.
I had never heard about this pigment before. The chemical book says PV29, Perylene Violet pigment, very lightfast and weatherfast, BWS 7-8. It can show better lightfastness than any other Perylenes, but it has a limited usage due to it's dark red-violet color, which is very dark and not a pure violet shade.

I guess, the high quality of this pigment can give a way to use it.

Anybody tried this pigment in any paint media?

Bradicus
04-17-2015, 12:17 PM
I havent tryed it Alex. Looks like its pretty unusual in oils.
After checking artiscreation.com, looks like WN uses in everything but oils.
I am sure others have it, but I havent noticed. Though possible I skimmed over it thinking it was p'b'29.

Says its a dull maroon. Are you going to post a swatch or what?

Cheers,
Brad

Gigalot
04-17-2015, 01:14 PM
It was PV29. When I opened the cap, oil paint into it has the color, which was similar to Perylene Violet acrylic and watercolor paint swatches I found online.
Sure, it was a tube of mono pigment PV29 oil paint! I will try to do color swatches for us, but at first, I need to buy this tube! :)

opainter
04-18-2015, 02:03 AM
This would make a good first violet to put on your palette, don't you think? Most people can mix a pretty-convincing high-chroma purple from a blue-leaning red, such as Quinacridone Red (PR207) and a red-leaning blue (Ultramarine Blue) but for pushing up the color in some of the darks and browns, this might be pretty nice. I might add this color to my wishlist too!

Brian Firth
04-18-2015, 04:35 PM
Alex, what brand is this paint? I have only seen PV29 in watercolor and acrylic in the US. I have several perylene reds and maroons PR149 & PR179 and they all have excellent transparency and tinting strength. From the acrylic and watercolor swatches it looks almost like an intense organic mars violet. Quite unique!

whitehonky
04-20-2015, 06:30 AM
[QUOTE=Gigalot]I found a 40 ml tube of oil paint in arts shop, which has a strange pigment index PV29 on it. This tube wasn't an expensive, but I went home to check the pigment type into it. This is Artist's grade oil paint, not a Student stuff.
I had never heard about this pigment before. The chemical book says PV29, Perylene Violet pigment, very lightfast and weatherfast, BWS 7-8. It can show better lightfastness than any other Perylenes, but it has a limited usage due to it's dark red-violet color, which is very dark and not a pure violet shade.

I guess, the high quality of this pigment can give a way to use it.

Anybody tried this pigment in any paint media?[/QUOTE

There is a PV29 in W&N artists' acrylics(transparent) ...haven't tried it but have stuck my finger in it, a dark red-violet, I imagine it would tint something like a quinacridone crimson or perylene maroon, only darker.
There is a PV 32 in Daniel Smith oils...Bordeaux_ASTM II _a wine coloured red. There is also in Daniel Smith oils, a quinacridone purple,PV 55 listed as ASTM I ,quite a gorgeous purple. I sometimes leave art shops with colourful fingers.
One idea comes to mind, what is the actual definition of purple and how is it different from violet? Commercial labelling being what it is , is often times confusing. I wish these paint companies would just call the colours by their chemical names, even though this is unsexy to the consumer. And what is the difference between lilac, lavender,mauve ?

Gigalot
04-20-2015, 07:02 AM
I sometimes leave art shops with colourful fingers.
One idea comes to mind, what is the actual definition of purple and how is it different from violet? Commercial labelling being what it is , is often times confusing. I wish these paint companies would just call the colours by their chemical names, even though this is unsexy to the consumer. And what is the difference between lilac, lavender,mauve ?

I think this color must be sexy! I love deep, translucent reds and violets, they can be very useful for shades and to mix many deep dark colors. I am going to art shop to get it now for us!

Gigalot
04-20-2015, 12:51 PM
I was very impressed with this PV29 color! You can see how transparent and rich "lilac bud" color this pigment can show in oil paint! Oil paint can be really great! :)

Perylene violet PV29, Cadmium orange PO20 and Naphthol Carmine PR146 colors:

Bradicus
04-20-2015, 01:39 PM
I think this color must be sexy! I love deep, translucent reds and violets, they can be very useful for shades and to mix many deep dark colors. I am going to art shop to get it now for us!
They all must have a sexy or romantic or historic names. Must I say, or I shop else where!
In fact, if you ask a boutique maker to change the name on a tube to something tolerable...they WILL! Haha.

So Alex, that is a real find. I love that colour! So transparent. And deep.

I agree, a deep red-magenta-violet is so useful. And pretty too!


I am envious: envy has been had.

You going to paint with it? What is the oil? Linseed?

Thanks for posting a swatch, it looks great,
Brad

Gigalot
04-20-2015, 03:02 PM
It is Marie's Master 40ml Oil Color Paint, 401 Series "E" Surprisingly, it has strong Linseed oil odor. Other their paints I have are "vegetable" odored :D
http://www.aldersonartsandcrafts.com.au/maries-master-40ml-oil-color-paint/
This tube has number 401 and pigment index PV29. Paint name is "Red violet"

These "Art Shoping" can be scary! I bought 4 tubes tubes instead of this one. :crying: Expensive Cobalt Green PG50, Cadmium Lemon PY35, Cadmium Orange PO20 and this one. It was cheaper :lol:

Brian Firth
04-21-2015, 12:34 PM
Good job. Look surprisingly almost like a Quinacridone Violet PV19 or a Thioindigo Violet PR88. I expected to be much duller from what I have seen in watercolor and acrylic. Is the Marie's Master artist quality paint?

Gigalot
04-21-2015, 01:16 PM
Good job. Look surprisingly almost like a Quinacridone Violet PV19 or a Thioindigo Violet PR88. I expected to be much duller from what I have seen in watercolor and acrylic. Is the Marie's Master artist quality paint?
Unfortunately, I don't have PV19 to compare it with this paint. Heh!
I have two Thioindigous in my collection - both are rare, PR86 Bright Rose and PR87 Thioindigo Red-Brown. Thios are less vivid in mixture with white, especially PR87. It turns from transparent bloody brown to a much less attractive earth-looking brown color. This PV29 mix very well, it's lilac color looks so pleasant!

Marie's Master 40ml Oil Color Paint - the only line which is considered to be an artist's grade. I found PG50, PY35, PO20, PBr25, PR122 pigments in this line of 40 ml tubes. I can say, that these tubes don't have a heavy OH weight, perhaps fumed silica is used as extender for those pigments. But cobalt and cadmium pigments color purity is very high. :thumbsup:

I tried to do some quick chemical analysis ( no Phthalo in PG50, pigment not changed at 900 Celsius degree! I was sure there must be Phthalo, but nope :D ) and their PG50, PO20 and PY35 are a real things and not adulterated with other pigments. Only by extender addition. :)
The extender has a light weight and transparency. I guess, it is fumed silica.

But they are more pigmented than, for example, Maimeri Classico student line.

The other size of their tubes are NOT an artist's grade, there are nothing to be a real cobalt or cadmium or quins into their large tubes!

opainter
04-22-2015, 03:51 AM
There is also in Daniel Smith oils, a quinacridone purple,PV 55 listed as ASTM I ,quite a gorgeous purple. I sometimes leave art shops with colourful fingers.

I'm fortunate in that I placed my order for this exact color in their acrylics line just before they announced that they were discontinuing it (this line). They have been selling off their discontinued paints, and although I haven't checked, I'd be willing to bet that this particular color has sold out, because you can't get this color paint from anyone else. It is a beautiful color. I'm almost afraid to start using it, because I might fall in love - unrequited love!

opainter
04-22-2015, 03:58 AM
Gigalot, are you sure that the color you have at the top is PV29? Because it doesn't look anything like the swatch that Dick Blick has on their website. Your color looks much more like my PV55.

Dick Blick's swatch of PV29:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Apr-2015/983189-01630_PerylViol-m.jpg

Your colors (PV29 at the top):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Apr-2015/983189-PV29-etc-colors.jpg

Gigalot
04-22-2015, 06:31 AM
Gigalot, are you sure that the color you have at the top is PV29? Because it doesn't look anything like the swatch that Dick Blick has on their website. Your color looks much more like my PV55.


I am not sure, Opainter. :D The other color I tested (PO20, PG50, PY35) are exactly the same as labeled on tubes. Unfortunately, folks, it is easy to detect inorganic pigments - Selenium odor of PO20, reaction with HCL emits hydrogen sulphide from cadmium sulphide, 900 celsium degree temperature resistant of Cobalt Green without color changing. Yeah! But how to determine Quinacridone vs Perylene? :eek: :confused: :eek: I don't have spectrometer at home! Is there any "ease" methods to say which is which?

http://www.dickblick.com/items/00319-6701/#colorswatch
In W&N watercolor paint it looks very close.
I can say, that this paint has a different color under day light and under incandescent light. Incandescent light gives a reddish glow, while daylight make it bluish and, probably "duller" in color.

"History:
Perylene Violet was developed as an ultra-transparency automotive pigment for use with metallic and pearlescent coatings."

opainter
04-23-2015, 06:20 AM
I might just have to uncap a tube the next time I visit Blicks. Yes, I'll be another person to have to stick their finger into PV29! (I have noticed some differences in Winsor & Newton's formulations of acrylic paint vs. other manufacturer formulations of the same paint. For example, W&N Potter's Pink (PR233) is a pale counterpart to Daniel Smith Potter's Pink (PR233).) DS Potter's Pink (acrylic paint) was discontinued, and the swatch for it no longer shows up on their website, but I have a copy.

Here's Daniel Smith's (discontinued and no longer available) acrylic Potter's Pink (PR233):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Apr-2015/983189-Potters_Pink_PR_233_60ml_Tube,_DANIEL_SMITH_Ultimate_Acrylic_-_p71258b.jpg

Here's Winsor & Newton's acrylic Potter's Pink (PR233):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Apr-2015/983189-01630_PottersPink-m.jpg

It almost looks like W&N added some Lithopone (PW5) or Titanium White (PW6) in there!

Gigalot
04-23-2015, 08:25 AM
As I know, Daniel Smith likes to add some "colorrants" to improve their paints. And they never hide this information. They said, that "pigment manufacturers" sells such a pigments for them. Based on real, natural pigment, but can be "coloured"...:) :crying: Michael Harding said, natural Amethyst pigment can't be so highly colored. The real thing is absolutely non-useful as a pigment. But Daniel Smith sells "Amethyst" paint. So, don't trust them toooo much! They are a bit "colourists"!
W&N are using clean pigments, or I just think so :lol:

Btw, my PV29 paint swatch dried to touch now. So, this my PV29 paint has a good drying properties. :)
I tried to mix it with Yellow paint. It makes brown color immediately. It can't mix beautiful deep reds with yellows as Quin Magenta can do. Therefore, I guess, it is not a Quin. I almost sure it is real Perylene Violet...

opainter
04-24-2015, 12:05 AM
As I know, Daniel Smith likes to add some "colorrants" to improve their paints. And they never hide this information. They said, that "pigment manufacturers" sells such a pigments for them. Based on real, natural pigment, but can be "coloured"...:) :crying: Michael Harding said, natural Amethyst pigment can't be so highly colored. The real thing is absolutely non-useful as a pigment. But Daniel Smith sells "Amethyst" paint. So, don't trust them toooo much! They are a bit "colourists"!
W&N are using clean pigments, or I just think so :lol:

That is helpful to know! Thanks for the information! Now I don't feel quite so bad about DS discontinuing their acrylics line . . .

opainter
04-24-2015, 12:15 AM
Btw, my PV29 paint swatch dried to touch now. . . . I tried to mix it with Yellow paint. It makes brown color immediately.

I like to make browns from violet and yellow. For the violet I usually think of Dioxazine Violet or Ultramarine Violet, and for the yellow, a fairly opaque yellow such as Cadmium Yellow or Bismuth Yellow (which are expensive, but allows for more range) or Yellow Ochre (which is inexpensive).