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pastel65
04-10-2015, 12:18 AM
Have tried the new Premier Pastel paper from hand-book company in the Italian Clay and no longer miss Wallis. Dakota Pastels has it on sale this week. Time for me to stock up. My pastel teacher and most of the class participants are buying it now. (We have a "standing" Sat. am class)

Dakota has it featured on its home page.

Just wanted to share findings.

Pam :wave:

Potoma
04-10-2015, 12:39 AM
Pam,
Thanks so much for posting - I came here to research this, because of the Dakota email.

I recently opened a multi-pack of Art Spectrum SuperTooth and found it to be awful, way too course, so I didn't want to randomly buy a pack of Premier. I usually use Uart, but like having a variety. Have a bunch of PastelMat that I just can't force myself to use. It is hard finding the support and I tend, unfortunately, to buy a multi-pack on sale, then discover it's not for me.

I was thinking of the clay color, too.
Bonnie

Moqui Steps
04-10-2015, 01:54 AM
It is an excellent paper. I just finished my first one on the 320 clay tonight and was very pleased with the way it handled. Dokata said there will be 3 new colors soon.

Be aware that using alcohol for underpaintings will soften the glue that holds the grit to the surface. As long as you don't leave it wet too long or rub too hard with the brush, you should be OK. I found that the tooth changes slightly with an alcohol underpainting even if done quickly. Too much rubbing will remove the grit. OMS does not soften the glue based on my testing. The text on the package does not mention this at all.

I discussed this in detail in another post.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1376822

pastel65
04-10-2015, 10:11 AM
Thanks Bonnie and Donald. I had not tried an under painting on the Premier paper, nor would I on the Italian clay but now I'll know not to buy the white for that purpose. I have some Wallis white that I will save for that and some boards of Fisher.

Just FYI if you like under paintings, I recently purchased acrylic inks after watching YouTube video by Peter Wood where he used them as underpainting for pastel and they are intense and fun to use. I brought the Liquitex brand basic set with 50% off coupon at A.C. Moore. If you try just squeeze out a small drop since you only need a little. I am gradually buying additional colors.

Bonnie, I love Pastelmat also but definitely have to approach the painting in a different way than a sanded pastel paper. I find almost no dust or waste of pastels with the Pastelmat.

Happy painting. Pam

Potoma
04-10-2015, 10:48 AM
Pam,
Good to know about the acrylic inks!

I was thinking of getting the clay, so no underpainting would be necessary. I usually like to do watercolor, but like the flexibility of using alcohol, because of drying time.

That sort of thing has been my frustration with PastelMat. It takes forever for a watercolor to dry. When I go plein air, I can barely get an underpainting done, before I need to wrap it up.
B

Moqui Steps
04-11-2015, 12:01 PM
Just FYI if you like under paintings, I recently purchased acrylic inks after watching YouTube video by Peter Wood where he used them as underpainting for pastel and they are intense and fun to use. I brought the Liquitex brand basic set with 50% off coupon at A.C. Moore. If you try just squeeze out a small drop since you only need a little. I am gradually buying additional colors.

Pam
Pam,

I watched several videos on Y'alltube covering acrylic inks as an underpainting for pastels. Pretty exciting stuff! Based on what was said in some of the videos, it appears that they dry much faster than watercolors, is that what you found? Do they change the tooth noticeably?

For those of you who have tried more than one brand of acrylic inks, which one is the most transparent? The Golden High Flow sounds like they are more opaque than the Liquitex or FW. Which brand changes the character of the tooth the most and which one the least?

(Edit:/Edit: Sadly no A.C. Moore near here and no online sales that I can see.)

Thanks,

Donald

pastel65
04-11-2015, 12:31 PM
Donald,
They do dry fast but I noted on Peter Wood's YouTube video that he used hot press watercolor paper, wets it before putting on inks and then mists it if necessary. I just had fun putting it straight on the paper. I need to experiment more myself with it. I took a class with a woman that used pure liquid pigment as her under painting in really bold colors and I think the inks will be just as successful. They do stain the paper and cannot be lifted but I'm not concerned about that.

I know you can order online for Michael's and they have coupons, just sign up at their website for emails and you will get offers. They also carry the inks. Not sure AC Moore has online sales. They do have website and I'll check it out.

Pam

pastel65
04-11-2015, 12:37 PM
I tried Michaels online and the inks were not available there. I thought I saw them at my local Michaels. Amazon has them from several sources.
Pam

Moqui Steps
04-11-2015, 12:45 PM
Thanks Pam. I am looking forward to trying this! I think I will get one or two bottles from each maker where possible, and see how they perform, then get a larger selection once tested.

Donald

Moqui Steps
04-11-2015, 02:03 PM
I found this too late too edit it in to my last post. The video shows the difference between AW, Liquitex and Bombay inks.

The Bombay appears to be more transparent than the other two. All three are lightfast and waterproof. Based on how the Bombay looks, I am guessing I will end up liking them the most for underpaintings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGGAEWQ15DE

allydoodle
04-12-2015, 12:08 AM
Thanks Bonnie and Donald. I had not tried an under painting on the Premier paper, nor would I on the Italian clay but now I'll know not to buy the white for that purpose. I have some Wallis white that I will save for that and some boards of Fisher.

Just FYI if you like under paintings, I recently purchased acrylic inks after watching YouTube video by Peter Wood where he used them as underpainting for pastel and they are intense and fun to use. I brought the Liquitex brand basic set with 50% off coupon at A.C. Moore. If you try just squeeze out a small drop since you only need a little. I am gradually buying additional colors.

Bonnie, I love Pastelmat also but definitely have to approach the painting in a different way than a sanded pastel paper. I find almost no dust or waste of pastels with the Pastelmat.

Happy painting. Pam

I've had some sad results using alcohol and pastel as an underpainting on Wallis. The tooth was severely compromised, almost smooth...... I've abandoned the painting..... very frustrating. I won't ever use alcohol on Wallis again. I've got quite a bit of it in my studio, I think I'll use it for dry work only. UArt is great for any kind of underpainting, I find it to be resilient and very tough. I'm now working on UArt, with a watercolor underpainting. There was absolutely no buckle, and the tooth of the paper is completely perfect. I have to say I am very impressed..... I'm using UArt 400 for this particular painting.

I've purchased the Premier Paper in Clay, I haven't use it yet, so glad to hear people like it. I got it to replace the Wallis Belgium Mist, so sad that went away. I love it for portraits, and I was hoping the Premier Clay was a good replacement. It sounds like I should be very happy with it. Now all I need is some time to start a portrait on it.....

Thanks for all this information, very helpful!

pastel65
04-12-2015, 06:25 PM
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Something tells me my white Wallis is just going to sit in art closet. I think you will like the Premier paper. Pam

Moqui Steps
04-16-2015, 11:57 AM
On the phone the other day with Global Art Materials, Inc. - the folks who provide Pastel Premier papers - I heard something that you might find interesting.

The gentleman I spoke with talked about the lengthy and trying process of getting the Pastel Premier paper to the point it is now. With about two years invested in working out the kinks they are finally good to go. When Wallis papers went out of circulation due to production issues, Global stepped in to try to save it. They worked with the existing Wallis paper maker for quite a while but eventually realized that they needed to switch to a different paper factory. They are now using a state of the art industrial abrasives manufacturing facility that can produce a consistent, quality product for them.

With the recent purchase of a massive die cutting machine to replace the traditional knife cutting press that was used previously, they have eliminated the final stumbling block that left some sheets with edge problems. He felt confident that from this point forward they will be providing a paper that will please the pastel community.

So, basically Pastel Premier is in fact the reincarnation off Wallis, with some tweaks that were necessary for a consistently precise product.

I am very happy with the paper and look forward to using it as one of my main pastel surfaces.

pastel65
04-22-2015, 01:48 AM
Thanks for the information. I think it will be one of my favorites. Pam.