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View Full Version : Has anyone ever tried the heat-set synthetic oils?


campsart
06-02-2001, 04:37 AM
First time using the Genesis heat-set synthetic oils. Personally, I'm very pleased with their versatility. This painting was done using the basic palette system...figured I wouldn't be out too much if I didn't like them. Has anyone else used them before? I'd really be curious to know your thoughts about them.
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Synthetic Oil on stretched canvas

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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.

Roan
06-02-2001, 05:23 AM
Campsart:

I'm going to move your post over to the Oils forum. Thanks!

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jerryW
06-02-2001, 06:08 AM
never been in this forum before

just wanted to remark that this painting has such a wonderful luminous quality.

very suscessfull use of a new material.

Mario
06-02-2001, 07:32 AM
Hi, I've never heard of these oils. How do they differ from the commonly sold type? Where do you get them? How are the prices? Where do you get info on using them? How was your experience in using them different? Many thanks.

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When painting onto a FLAT SURFACE, think FLAT, FLAT, FLAT, don't try to paint around the object.

campsart
06-02-2001, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Mario:
Hi, I've never heard of these oils. How do they differ from the commonly sold type? Where do you get them? How are the prices? Where do you get info on using them? How was your experience in using them different? Many thanks.


Thanks for the comments JerryW!

Hi Mario! Although these paints differ in some chemical characteristics, I feel they don't differ in handling at all. In fact, I feel that they handle better than traditional paints. I don't believe I'll ever be able to use the former traditional paints with quite the same fervor and enthusiasm as I have with the Genesis line. I'm hopelessly hooked on these. I don't have to clean my brushes between sessions. I've left paint on my brushes for days on end and it still remained wet. I don't have to worry about matching that particular colour anymore. As long as I use a glass palette, my mixed colour stays wet and fresh indefinitely. Glazing is so easy and non time consuming. No waiting. I can lay in a colour, heat-set it with the gun and lay in my next layer immediately. These paints seem to have the best of both worlds of oil and acrylic. This all gives me greater control of my process. I believe I can create more professional results with this system. I've gained new confidence using these paints. The paint is contained in jars instead of tubes. I like that. The paint seems a little thick when you first lay it out on the palette but turns more fluid with simple palette knife manipulation and turn even more workable when using a little thinning or glazing medium.

I could go on forever singing their praises. You can find out more by visiting their website at www.genesisartistcolors.com (http://www.genesisartistcolors.com) or go to Dick Blicks or www.jerryscatalog.com (http://www.jerryscatalog.com)

Thanks for asking...
David



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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.

paintfool
06-02-2001, 11:07 AM
David, Thanks for the posts. We have had some discussion on the Genisis paints before but no one had actually used them at that time. I was given a sample set by my supply store but haven't had the time to play with them. You've mentioned the advantatges but have you found any disadvantages? I know that you set the paint with a heat gun (looks like a silver hair dryer but with out the forced air). I've heard that this is somewhat painstaking when dealing with a large painting. You can also put the entire piece in your oven on 260 degrees for 12 or 13 minutes to set it but of course this can only be done with canvas up to a certain size too. Genisis also sells a 'drying box' but i do not know the demensions. I also know that the medium is also used as a varnish... yes?
Great painting btw! I think i shall play with those paints when i get a few minutes.
Cheryl

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paintfool

campsart
06-02-2001, 05:40 PM
Hi paintfool. The only disadvantage I can see in using this system is the limit in support size if I'm to use only the heat gun only. That doesn't matter to me. I usually work small in size anyway. I'm hooked on these paints. I hope no one will mind my including some brochure info in this reply. Please visit the Genesis website at www.genesisartistcolors.com (http://www.genesisartistcolors.com)

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Check out the quality achieved by New Jersey artist Marcel Franquelin.

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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.

Titanium
06-02-2001, 10:35 PM
Archival Quality ?

Better on Panel or Stretched Canvas ?

Looks impressive otherwise .
Titanium

Shirl
06-03-2001, 12:05 AM
Hi David,

BTW, your painting is wonderful!!

"Equine Artist" posted a painting in the Animal and Wildlife Forum. She used these paints. She's a new Mother so she can't paint for long periods. She said she really liked them, especially for her situation. I thought it sounded ideal for her. I had never heard of them. Sure sounds like something I should look into. On a hot day you could just stick big canvases in your car to dry--I've done that. Hmmmmmm...

Did you have any problems adjusting at all?

Shirl

campsart
06-03-2001, 01:29 PM
Titanium...I believe these paints will truly stand the test of time. I'm no expert in their chemical makeup or Genesis's claim to their archival ability but the rep I spoke with swears by them. These paints can supposedly be painted on just about anything. Check their website at www.genesisartistcolors.com (http://www.genesisartistcolors.com)

Shirl...I'll take a look at the painting you told me about as soon as I get done posting here. Problems adjusting? The only thing that seem strange was using the hot air gun but once I seen how this allows me more precise control while glazing, I was hooked! I know I've gone overboard here with all this but I feel like I've found $1,000,000 and I want to tell everyone. I'll have to get a grip!

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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.

Niol
06-04-2001, 09:14 AM
Genesis paints are not oils but thermoplastics according to Rob Howard on the Cennini Forum. There are additional measured responses there: http://studioproducts.com/homepage/homepage.html click on forum and then search. I tried them but found them incompatible with my painting methods which do not involve much mapping but require flexibility throughout. What I think I may want to "set" one day may change completely the next. Plus I found the oven, gun and plastics disturbing to my aesthetics and still wonder what effects that much heating of a support may produce.

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NJH

campsart
06-04-2001, 11:28 AM
Thanks so much for your comments Niol. I will have to admit that I have a bad habit of getting excited about something before I've thoroughly researched or tested it. I feel a little silly about posting this material as I have. Personally, I just feel as though these paints suit my technique well. I plan on using them for some time. After awhile, I should know more about their worth. I figure acrylics had their share of protest when they came on the market. I think I'll stick with this for a time. BTW...thanks for introducing me to such a fine site.

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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.

paintfool
06-04-2001, 11:44 AM
Campsart, PLEASE don't feel silly about posting this material! We have had discussions on these paints in the past but this is the first time that anyone who actually had this much experience with them has posted thier results and thoughts. Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing it.
Cheryl

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paintfool

Shirl
06-05-2001, 12:07 AM
Agree with Cheryl! You had great results and are a great artist. Thanks for sharing David. I'm going to look into those paints.

Shirl

campsart
06-05-2001, 05:56 AM
Thanks Paintfool and Shirl. I feel much better now... http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"Art is a jealous mistress and if a man has a genius for painting, poetry, music, architecture or philosophy, he makes a bad husband and an ill provider."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1888), American essayist, critic, and philosopher.

miek37
09-15-2001, 07:21 PM
Here is it September 15 to be exact and I was looking for info on Genesis heat-set oil paints. Asked "Paintfool" to help, and help she did even tho' she has just braved the tropical storm down in Florida!!! She directed me to this thread and who could ask for more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Many thanks to "Campsart" for the beautiful painting and enthusiasm about the Genesis paints. Wonder if she is still as pleased with them, would love to hear!!!! Well worth an investment as I am on a deadline for my little paintings for a gallery here in town.
Thanks to All!!!!

Helen:clap: :cat:

mozart
02-01-2004, 03:18 PM
Just found this forum on Genesis Heat Set paints. I can understand why some feel these paints are NOT true oil paint, but for me it gives me a chance to try classical painting. I am sensitive to linseed oil and thinner used in traditional oil paints.
Attached is a painting I just completed as an "experiment"...this will NOT be advertised or sold, etc as it is after Daniel Greene's "Michele Resting". I wanted to see how the Genesis paints would do over a graphite pencil value underpainting. This was done on Ampersand Gessoboard. The pencil was sprayed with fixative 3 times before addition of paints. I put a sort-of Verdaccio over the under"drawing" then added glazes of color following the lean to fat rule. They make a 'glaze' medium for this purpose and a final varnish that is also heat fixed.
Comments welcomed.

Debbie

miek37
02-02-2004, 09:54 AM
Well, for goodness sake, what a nice surprise and reminder about the heat set oils!!!! I see my post on this thread was in the year 2001!!!!! Well, for 3 years now I have been doing paintings and drawings for the SAME gallery here in town. HOWEVER!!! I still haven't purchased the heat set oils, I just hastily bought some Liquin to mix with the oils I had and went from there!! In the three years I have produced 165 paintings, with approx. 70 subjects. Had a very nice article on my work in the local newspaper and have an appointment set for a portrait commission next Monday. Still can't quite pay the mortgage with my earnings, but I am drawing and painting and selling, who could ask for more??? Mozart!!! Enjoyed your "Michele Restings" rendering, was most interested in the fact that you use graphite plus fixative as your grisaille! Certainly establishes good value range! The glazes are very bright and pleasant. Don't quit while your ahead, do more, please!!!
Helen :clap:

mozart
02-02-2004, 05:14 PM
Helen,
Thank you so much for your reply! I really admire your ability to do so many paintings and all the experience you must have. I have been mainly doing drawings in graphite, colored pencil and some pastels. Being more of a "control freak", my painting with brushes has been a real challenge.
I was quite surprised at the result I got with the Genesis paints...I was impressed with the brightness of the glazes and how smooth they went on the gessoboard. This is "user friendly" paint as well.....the brushes rinsed in alittle rubbing alcohol and soap and water actually do get like they have had a conditioning treatment and of course being able to just lay down a brush and not worry about drying out or anything is also a plus.
Thanks again and I'm working on a portrait of my brother and his wife using the same technique....hope it works the same:)

Debbie :)

miek37
02-03-2004, 02:37 PM
What a coincidence that after soooo long a time away from WetCanvas that on my first visit back I would find another "control freak"!!! I use colored pencil with white acrylic underpaintings (for values) the work lightest to darkest. That is why I like the Liquin to make the oil dry fast so I can work light to dark and lean to fat (I have found that clients like the final layer to show the brush stokes!!! I even use the Liquin as a sealer instead of varnish.

With the heat set oils what final coat do you use? Varnish or what?

Looks like I am just going to have to buy some of the Genesis oils!!!

Keep painting and keep the soup pot on!!! (Some bread in the bread machine is great on these chilly days!!!) :cat:
Helen

mozart
02-04-2004, 12:45 PM
Helen,
I am even sensitive to Liquin! I tried to paint with Alkyds several years ago and discoved that the fumes from the Liquin bothered me.

Genesis does have a heat-set varnish now....Heat-Set Permanent Satin Varnish. Check their website, I think there are others too. You apply this over the "dried" painting with a sponge and then heat set it the same way as the colors. Seems to give it a nice shine!

Debbie :)

Opie
02-04-2005, 02:20 AM
:clap:
Hello all,
Been a "lurker" off and on for a long time here; but with this
topic I gotta jump in. I've been using the Genesis for several
years now. Love it !
It's my first time on this forum but when I figure out how to add pics
I'll do that.
For the WVA gal who was going to spray her painting; use caution,
there are sprays that will cause the Genesis to stay wet Forevvvver!
Krylon to name one. In the Decorative Painting world (SDP) we use
the heat set varnish, or a new sealer out of Canada called Final Coat.
For a palette I use a metal butcher tray and have mixes still fresh
and ready to use from 3 years ago. The little metal bead storage tins
are handy too for storing mixes you don't need as often.

For a First post, guess ya can tell I get pretty carried away when
someone is talking my language.
PS: I'm in Northern California; but a West Virginian at heart.

P~

miek37
02-04-2005, 09:56 AM
Hi! Opie! Good to have you with us!!!! Thanks for the info! Your enthusiasm for heat-set oils REALLY has me excited to try them. As soon as I finish my next orders (still in acrylic paint and color pencils) I REALLY AM going to try the Genesis oils! You talked me into it! I just know the miniatures I do would look VERY nice done in these oils! "Museum-like"! The public reallly enjoys that! Our daughter's father in law was born in West Virginia although we all live here in eastern North Carolina on the crystal coast! I was born and raised in Denver Colorado as were our children. My husband was born and raised on a huge farm in eastern centeral Illinois! Sort of covered all the bases. Happy painting!!!! Helen :cat:

mozart
02-04-2005, 02:33 PM
Hi Helen and Opie,
What a surprise to find a reply to the Genesis paints! Thanks so much for the info. I still use the Genesis heat varnish that they provide. I haven't been using my paints lately.....this reminds me to get them out again! Do you know if any galleries except the Genesis Paintings? They are so fickle and so.....behind!
West Virginia may be small, but we have "mountaineers" everywhere (especially North Carolina, our second home!)

Debbie :clap:

Opie
02-04-2005, 02:47 PM
Glad I could help with something; have read so many things on here
that helped me out!
Tooo funny that you do Miniatures; browsed thru alot on them (here)
the other nite. Mom and Dad built 1" scale dollhouses for years,
and Hubby is working on a 5 story apt house (same scale). So Mini's
are in my blood as well.

You may need to thin the paint for your tiny work; have several new
ways to do that. Also, you would probably love the Silver Brush Mini
set for tight detail work.

Hope you've saved some of those AOL tins (CD holder) that came in the
mail....of course, you could use the smallest of the Altoid mint tins
to hold your palette. I use the CD tins for palettes -you use a tiny
ammount of paint to begin with -and with mini's that will reallly be
tiny.

Still haven't set up a signature link to my Picturetrail acct; but go to
their site, and punch in " opielowe" to see alot of my stuff.
The fairy paintings on velum were my first big project with this paint.
The hospital mural project was on gessoed panels; acrylics, airbrush,
and colored pencils.

Will add more about thhe thinners I use if you're interested.
Trying to think if I have any painting buddies in NC; have visited
there years ago --beautiful part of the Country.
*ooooh! Cheap Joe's; road trip!

Better run for now,
Patti~

miek37
02-04-2005, 06:27 PM
:clap: Think I REALLY got interested in doing miniature work when our son started with model railroads. Building a really nice tressle (sp?) bridge and the buildings were my favorite things, but doing the tiny details on the buildings was just plain FUN!!!! Almost therapy!!! I never really was interested in how the trains ran, just like making all the scenery and backdrops, etc. Now he is in Colorado and I am way out here, but once in a while I will do a building for him, or some people. Think I will try some of the Genesis on all this and tell him about it too, he is an architect by trade in Denver specializing in space use and development in buildings so the form of the buildings follow the function of what is going on inside!!! Think I will try the "Intro" set of the Genesis, certainly will be enough for the 2"x3" images I do for sale. Keep warm all, and have a happy weekend!! Helen :cat: O! P.S. We work in N scale on the railroads, just about the smallest size.

BlackFox
02-05-2005, 08:05 PM
Awesome! I just looked at their website, and they seem too good to be true! There must be a catch. I'm just gonna have to buy them. BTW, if each layer dries when you heat them, does that mean the fat over lean rule doesn't apply any more?

Opie
02-06-2005, 01:36 AM
Hello again,
I'm so new to oils that I'm not even sure exactly how the "fat over
lean" rule goes. I take it to mean a thin underpainting, and then a
heavier application over that.

I generally basecoat my panels with acrylic (Deco Art Americana)
has been found to be very compatible. Am not trying to spam you with
brand names here; just sharing what works for me - and those I've
learned from.
There's a lot of grisaille work being done with it; where a tonal
underpainting is done -then glazed (baking in between).

Coming from an acrylic background, my hardest task is not over
blending my layers. I'm used to basing in an area, then proceeding
to subsequent layers after the first ones have dried. Am having a bit
of a time getting used to putting all the tonal variations on there
and getting them to blend.

My favorite part about it is that it never dries. The palette I used for
an exam last year is as fresh as the week I mixed it. Just keep it
covered to keep out dust or impurities, and remove any little hairs
(dog at my house) before baking and it's all good.
I've used the Genesis paint for several years now. Love them.
Prior to these I've used mostly acrylic and mixed media, but I gotta
say the Genesis is my favorite.

**I posted this part in another topic the other day and copied
it over to here.

For the gal trying to use the heat gun; hold it several inches above
your surface, and get comfortable.....don't wiggle the gun around like
you would drying your hair. It has to thoroughly heat the area; time
will depend on how thick you've applied your paint.
When using the gun; I put my hand behind the panel and when it gets
really uncomfortably hot I move on.
If I just need to set a small area I use the gun; if it's a large exspanse
of the surface I get the oven to 265, turn oven off and bake painting
for 10 mins. Works great.
LOL. They tell me you can cook food in your home oven too. Gotta
try that.
Actually caught a pine frame on fire last year with them; #1. I had the
oven on preheat, and forgot to turn it off. #2. Soft woods such as pine
don't take 265preheat well at all.....not many woods can handle that.

One last thought too; don't use your regular brushes for this paint.
If you have to, make sure they are absolutely free of any other type
of paint. There are alot of excellent patterns by Ann Kingslan and
Mary Gibilisco using these paints. Do a Google search for Kingslan
and check out their site. Also, The Society of Decorative Painters is
having their Convention in Tampa this year, and there are a lot of Genesis classes being offered.

Hope this helps someone.
Patti~
picturetrail: opielowe

dcorc
02-06-2005, 01:52 AM
Just to comment that these paints - which strictly are thermoplastic paints, and not oil paints (they do not mix with real oil paints) - come up from time to time in discussions here on the forum:

A search (go to the bottom of the page that shows up with this link, and click "search now") shows various threads - opinions on them vary widely.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/search.php?query=genesis&searchuser=&exactname=0&starteronly=0&forumchoice=10&childforums=1&titleonly=0&showposts=0&searchdate=&beforeafter=&sortby=&sortorder=&replyless=0&replylimit=0&searchthread=0&searchthreadid=0&saveprefs=0&

I haven't used them at all myself, so cannot comment on them personally.

:)

Dave

Opie
02-06-2005, 02:29 AM
Thanks Dave,
Have done a bit of searching on the site; but hadn't seen the
page you linked to. I'm slowly learning my way around.

My experience with these paints comes from the Decorative Painter
side of the art. It's being used with great success by alot of people
in this industry. It's easier to use in a large setting where many students are all trying to do dry their pieces at the same time; and
there are no aerosol sprays being used.

When I made the comment about fat over lean; I was referring to
using Genesis only. I do use layers of acrylic rolled on for a base
application (or ground), but from there on out; it's Genesis.

I bought new brushes for my painting with Genesis; but have heard of
some real disasters when people tried to use their old oil brushes.
And likewise when they applied paint over a surface of acrylic that
wasn't totally dry, or not a true acrylic.
Gesso, in my experience is also a good base for these paints.

The fact that the Company calls them an Oil has been an issue
with alot of artists. On that topic I really have no comment.
I do refer to them as heat set oils; but only because that's what they're
called.

My favorite part about them is that I can cover my palette and walk away for several months and go back and pick up right where I left
off.....don't even have to clean my brushes.

Guess that's like the old saying, "different strokes for different folks".
Just my thoughts.
Patti~

craftyten1
04-11-2007, 04:07 PM
Hi I use Genisis Heat set oils and I love working with them. I am not a very good painter but I try and I also use my oven to heat set the picture and I use my heat set gun. It works very well for me--and I like it so aaai can work in smaller ares, and do more blending when I want to.:wave:

rroberts
04-11-2007, 06:38 PM
Hi Carol, and welcome to the Oil Forum.
If you look at the dates of this thread, it was started in 2001 !
The most recent entry other than yours was in February 2005.
By now, It's possible that some of the key information in this thread could be seriously out of date.

Please feel free to start a new thread if you have questions.
Again, welcome to the Oil Forum.