PDA

View Full Version : Rogier vand der Weyden: Portrait of a woman with a winged bonnet - reproduction


IronPawn
10-11-2014, 04:04 PM
There are few projects I'm working on at the moment (including few originals of my own, beside 3 or 4 reproductions) and this one is done in 1 sitting so far, about 7 hours of work. Great tonality exercise because tones are very, very close to each other on upper half. Now, when I think about it, bottom half as well.

We'll see how it's going to turn out. No idea how it looks at the moment, need to take few days to be away from this painting and take a break to analyze it more.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2014/1893483-Portrait_of_a_women_with_a_winged_bonned_1st_layer_start.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2014/1893483-Portrait_of_a_women_with_a_winged_bonned_1st_layer_finish.jpg

Dana Design
10-12-2014, 11:52 AM
It's looking wonderful! Superior work!

IronPawn
10-13-2014, 04:40 AM
It's looking wonderful! Superior work!

Thank you Dana, I really appreciate it.

Nathalie Chavieve
10-16-2014, 09:06 AM
Nicely done underpainting - very accurate.

Are you doing a same size copy as the original ?

Are you familiar with Rogier van der Weyden painting techniques?

IronPawn
10-17-2014, 06:35 AM
Nicely done underpainting - very accurate.

Are you doing a same size copy as the original ?

Are you familiar with Rogier van der Weyden painting techniques?

Hello Nathalie, thanks! Yes, copy is being made in true size, 1:1. I was lucky to have this panel already with me, unused and when I checked the size of original, oh my... same size. Happy accident :)

As for van der Weyden technique, I'm somewhat familiar. This painting is credited to him although there are some doubts about it. He used very limited palette with very few pigments. Also, I played Poirot :) when studying this painting and noticed on her hands gray underpainting with very strong black outline. Also, you could see warm yellow ochre-ish imprimatura thru her transparent dress, I guess over the years gray glaze faded.

His signature was use of red madder from what I found. He used it to warm up cold grays. I chose to do this painting because since this point painting started to move from 2 dimensional to 3 dimensional in representation of the object. Sort of hommage to the master...

Thanks again!

AllisonR
10-18-2014, 12:08 PM
I am very excited to see you taking on this beautiful work of van der Weyden. I think you have a lovely start - great work on the hands, and I think it was smart you kept the dress folds soft in the underpainting. Your drawing is very close. I know you mention seeing strong hard outlines (perhaps charcoal from the cartoon transfer?) but I think the hard line on the edge of her face (where face meets fabric on right) is way too hard and dark. Some of the other lines in her headdress have the same problem. Otherwise coming along very nicely.

IronPawn
10-18-2014, 06:21 PM
I am very excited to see you taking on this beautiful work of van der Weyden. I think you have a lovely start - great work on the hands, and I think it was smart you kept the dress folds soft in the underpainting. Your drawing is very close. I know you mention seeing strong hard outlines (perhaps charcoal from the cartoon transfer?) but I think the hard line on the edge of her face (where face meets fabric on right) is way too hard and dark. Some of the other lines in her headdress have the same problem. Otherwise coming along very nicely.

Thank you Allison! Actually, what I meant by saying that I saw strong black lines and grey underpainting on her hands is that he probably did complete underpainting in grey, that's all. Yes, I'm aware of a hard lines on upper part but first I wanted to block a drawing and since he did several glazes (yellow ochre and grey/blue on her headdress) they will disappear quite soon. Face line, hard edge will be a mix of yellow ochre and madder lake plus white and it will disappear as well. With a first sitting I went for accuracy, didn't want to go thru headaches later on :)

Now I am being tempted to completely cover it with a white to soften (the Italian way). Need to think about it.

Thanks again!

IronPawn
10-25-2014, 04:53 PM
Finally found some time to continue on this painting. Applied local color and I don't expect it to glow at the moment but rather be dull and boring. I guess, that's a beauty of glazing. Patience will hopefully pay off. Got little bit tired so hands were rushed... There was absolutely no open white in this glaze and her headdress was almost yellowish/green. Cool underpainting calmed it down. About 7 hours of work. The way it looks at the moment, most probably there will be at least 3 or 4 more glazes from this point.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2014/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden.jpg

IronPawn
11-01-2014, 06:20 PM
Second color, glazing and actually painting (fixing things that were wrong in earlier sitting). Wait to dry and repeat again :-)

Photo is probably too dark even though I did glaze with darker colors specially her headdress (greens, browns and blues). Unfortunately, I don't have professional lighting and/or camera as the matter of fact so I will have to take a picture on a sunny day in November :-)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2014/1893483-Portrait_of_a_women_with_a_winged_bonnet_2nd_color.jpg

IronPawn
11-08-2014, 09:53 AM
3rd color sitting. Glazing mostly warm colors, primarily red or shades of red. Working on her dress and headdress, fixing things here and there. There is not much that I can do so this was a fast one, about 1 hour of work. Let it dry and see what needs to be done next.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2014/1893483-Portrait_of_a_women_with_a_winged_bonnet_3rd_color.jpg

Sana Almimar
11-08-2014, 03:12 PM
So far so good ....a wonderful work ..especially the hands ...everything seems beautiful and perfect !!

IronPawn
11-09-2014, 05:05 AM
So far so good ....a wonderful work ..especially the hands ...everything seems beautiful and perfect !!

Thank you Sana! It looks like that I'm about only half way done. Lots of things need to be fixed but it is what it is... :-)

Thanks again, really appreciate it.

IronPawn
11-15-2014, 01:26 PM
Another color layer... note to self: wait for it to dry and look at it again :) .


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2014/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden_4th_color.jpg

IronPawn
11-22-2014, 02:34 PM
Lost some light in previous layers, need to bring it back. About 1 hour of work with observation, stress free painting :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Nov-2014/1893483-Portrait_of_a_women_with_a_winged_bonnet_4th_color.jpg

Nathalie Chavieve
12-07-2014, 09:30 AM
I think that you went to dark with colors, especially on white head cloth. I like very much your first color layer ( after the dead color ) : it was very bright and clean colors, and I think it was just enough to add some more very thin glazes and velaturas over this color to create shadows and forms. Now the flesh looks "heavy", and the white cloth are too yellow - look at the original painting, it has bright and gentle pink colors of the face, an white color of the cloth. Do not forget, when you copy the Old masters paintings, you have to remember that these paintings are a few hundreds years old, the paint and varnish became yellow with time and colors are lost their intensity and brightness.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2014/189689-Van_der_Mayden_1.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2014/189689-Van_der_Weyden.jpeg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2014/189689-b4868905a29293dc9ba3cd6db0c6684f.jpg

IronPawn
12-07-2014, 10:49 AM
[QUOTE=Nathalie Chavieve]I think that you went to dark with colors, especially on white head cloth. I like very much your first color layer ( after the dead color ) : it was very bright and clean colors, and I think it was just enough to add some more very thin glazes and velaturas over this color to create shadows and forms. Now the flesh looks "heavy", and the white cloth are too yellow - look at the original painting, it has bright and gentle pink colors of the face, an white color of the cloth. Do not forget, when you copy the Old masters paintings, you have to remember that these paintings are a few hundreds years old, the paint and varnish became yellow with time and colors are lost their intensity and brightness.



I totally agree. The problem was that print I was working from was of poor quality with really muted colors. When seeing online it is really bright. Yellowing is part of oil and age, totally understand that. Today I worked on it more (post bellow) and went even lighter then before (like that we spoke already :wave: )...

IronPawn
12-07-2014, 10:58 AM
As mentioned above, need to go back to lighter colors. Now, when I think about it, there could be some other serious issues with it that have nothing to do with this approach. Finding out some connections between paintings and technique's of few hundred years apart, what was generally the purpose of exercise.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2014/1893483-Portrait_of_a_women_with_a_winged_bonnet_5th_color.jpg

maryinasia
12-07-2014, 11:11 AM
beautiful!

IronPawn
12-07-2014, 11:07 PM
beautiful!

Thank you!

Acauntcindy
12-08-2014, 05:45 AM
Wow, this is beautiful.

IronPawn
12-08-2014, 08:54 AM
Wow, this is beautiful.

Thank you! Will continue to work some more on it in next few weeks...

Nathalie Chavieve
12-08-2014, 05:46 PM
Finding out some connections between paintings and technique's of few hundred years apart, what was generally the purpose of exercise.

Yes, I know what you mean :). I also did some copies after Leonardo Da Vinci and Caravaggio and it wasn't easy.....:cool:

AllisonR
12-11-2014, 10:20 AM
This is looking really good. I am glad you are taking the time and care needed to do it right. I agree with Nathalie about the fresh whiteness of the headscarf, compared to yours which is too colored and heavy. Perhaps you could scumble with little zinc white for cool white; I think lead white will only add to the too much warm. Face is lovely. Hands looking much better. I think original transitions from dark to very dark shadows in dress a little softer than in your version.

IronPawn
12-11-2014, 06:14 PM
This is looking really good. I am glad you are taking the time and care needed to do it right. I agree with Nathalie about the fresh whiteness of the headscarf, compared to yours which is too colored and heavy. Perhaps you could scumble with little zinc white for cool white; I think lead white will only add to the too much warm. Face is lovely. Hands looking much better. I think original transitions from dark to very dark shadows in dress a little softer than in your version.

Thanks Allison but as of now it is still far from over. Yes, no need to rush otherwise I would defeat the purpose of exercise. I've spent a great deal of time thinking rather then painting (probably 60:40 ratio) and with logical sequence what was learned from these type of challenges are invaluable. Of course, need to pay the price for it by doing things over and over again, but no problem - there is no rush.

Yes, working on a headdress and you are absolutely right about the dress, there was no light in it (it is all basically a shadow tone) and will start working on it once I finish something on upper half that is being done at the moment. Hands were somewhat neglected (not really on purpose) due to overwhelming situation above :) Now I'm doing a little experiment for both flesh tones (face and hands) and it looks promising.

Well, all in all copying seems simple, but fortunately it is not... and a great deal of knowledge comes from it.

IronPawn
12-14-2014, 01:06 PM
It's a Sunday and about 1 hour of painting... working on her face and hands as mentioned above. Next week will continue working some more on it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Dec-2014/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden_face.jpg

AllisonR
12-14-2014, 01:16 PM
Big difference. Either you have worked on the headdress or you have a totally different camera.

One minor issue - compare to original. Yes, she has high eyebrows. But in the original the eyes and eyebrows look relaxed. She is looking at you, subtly surprised with eyebrows subtly up. In yours she is consciously lifting her eyebrows - less relaxed. I hope this makes sense.

IronPawn
12-14-2014, 02:06 PM
Big difference. Either you have worked on the headdress or you have a totally different camera.

One minor issue - compare to original. Yes, she has high eyebrows. But in the original the eyes and eyebrows look relaxed. She is looking at you, subtly surprised with eyebrows subtly up. In yours she is consciously lifting her eyebrows - less relaxed. I hope this makes sense.

Hey Allison, thanks again for a follow up! It really helps. Took a painting outdoor, unfortunately camera is the same..

You are right, angle on the eyebrow is different. Also, I was so consumed with color aspect that anatomy slipped observation... now, I notice that her left eye should be bigger, right eye as well (slightly higher), nose slightly bigger, upper lip fuller... plenty of work and I like it :clap:

Will keep posting.

IronPawn
12-20-2014, 01:17 PM
Working some more on her eyes and other features. At this point, probably I'm ready for some final glazes on her skin and dress.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden_5th_color.jpg

Nathalie Chavieve
01-09-2015, 02:00 PM
Her skin tone looks much nicer now then it was before. I think you have some issues with the nose - check the shape of the nose, especially the tip of the nose - it is more rounded in the original painting. I like how you managed her hands - beautiful !

IronPawn
01-09-2015, 05:12 PM
Her skin tone looks much nicer now then it was before. I think you have some issues with the nose - check the shape of the nose, especially the tip of the nose - it is more rounded in the original painting. I like how you managed her hands - beautiful !

Thank you Nathalie! (again:) ) I agree for the nose, but that was not the only issue there... so, I had to quite re-do her face area to fit back in place. I noticed that everything was off on my painting for very small fraction where the end result was not satisfactory. Soon I'll post some progress of 're-touching' it.

Thanks again for your time and input.

IronPawn
01-25-2015, 10:21 AM
Getting close to the finish line. This project took a lot of time but learning curve was great.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jan-2015/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden_7th_color.jpg

AllisonR
01-27-2015, 10:47 AM
You should be proud - it is lovely. Good you spent the time. Hands are great. You fixed he nose nicely. The only thing left to fix, in my opinion, is the folds in the left shoulder and sleeve. Not much, just a scumble in that area to soften the edges of the folds, right now it is too hard. Otherwise great. and I really enjoyed watching your progress.

What are you going to do next? I am going to start on Vermeers girl with the red hat shortly. Very difficult, for me, because the face is so abstract, so fresh, and I am sure my copy will lose all that and be stiff.

IronPawn
01-28-2015, 06:50 PM
You should be proud - it is lovely. Good you spent the time. Hands are great. You fixed he nose nicely. The only thing left to fix, in my opinion, is the folds in the left shoulder and sleeve. Not much, just a scumble in that area to soften the edges of the folds, right now it is too hard. Otherwise great. and I really enjoyed watching your progress.

What are you going to do next? I am going to start on Vermeers girl with the red hat shortly. Very difficult, for me, because the face is so abstract, so fresh, and I am sure my copy will lose all that and be stiff.

Thanks again Allison, really appreciate it! Yeah, took me a while and still another few layers to go (as mentioned in another thread, camera doesn't really do any justice to the painting - colors are much more soft and passages are blended tone to tone but I still need to fix some things regardless).

Still have those 2 Rembrandt's (Johannes and Military guy) as well as Vermeer (Girl w. pearl earring) leaning somewhere against the wall :) Wish you good luck with your Vermeer, great painting... I was thinking about making (after all this is done) 'Glass of wine' (one of my all time favorite) but I think that I have too much respect for it... We'll see.

At the moment I also have running some of my own staff... little portrait for my childhood friend's daughter. She has a Greek name, although she is not Greek and I thought it would be fun to do it in classical setting. Mind you, this is 1st sitting (doodverf) done yesterday in couple of hours and it looks quite raw at the moment but, it is what it is...

Thanks again and talk to you soon!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2015/1893483-Enea_1st.jpg

IronPawn
02-12-2015, 11:34 AM
Still correcting some features... few more glazes to go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Feb-2015/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden_9th_color.jpg

IronPawn
02-21-2015, 10:22 AM
One of (if not the one) last layers... again, I could fix some things but exercise showed me few things I never thought about before. Probably, I will start wrapping up this project... Thank you for hanging around all this time :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2015/1893483-Rogier_vd_Weyden_10th_color_2.jpg

Dana Design
02-21-2015, 04:38 PM
So pleasurable to read this thread. Thank you so much for sharing! It's beautiful work. Superb!

IronPawn
02-22-2015, 07:02 AM
So pleasurable to read this thread. Thank you so much for sharing! It's beautiful work. Superb!

Thank you Dana, you are so kind!