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View Full Version : Student Paint: W&N Winton vs. Thalens Amsterdam


cunparis
09-29-2003, 04:55 PM
I've read the reviews here, which were more positive on Winton than Amsterdam. I've also searched here and google. But I really haven't seen a comparison between these two brands. At the big art store here in Paris (Marin) they have two student paints: W&N Winton (6.20 Euros for 200ml tube) and Amsterdam (3.75 Euros for 200ml tube). I bought one of each and really can't tell the difference, although I did purchase different colors. I'm curious if people think the Winton's are really worth 2.50 Euros more (about $2.75 US) than the Amsterdam. I'd like to start painting bigger sizes, probably 65x50cm paper. So if I can save some money by using Amsterdam that would be great. Figuring 10 tubes that makes the difference about $27. Right now I'm using a kit of Louvre (a student brand of Lefranc & Bourgeois) that is almost out and a kit of the brand Van Gogh. I like the Van Gogh but it seems people don't like them that much. The opaque colors do seem a bit chalky to me. The Winton tube I bought is Lemon Yellow Hue and it's not chalky at all. In summary, I don't find much good about any student paints. I've purchased a few tubes of Lefranc & Bourgeois Fine and really I don't see the difference. Considering my paintings are just for practice (throw-away or give-away), I don't want to overspend on paint. And painting like Van Gogh (my current studies) use lots of paint. But at the same time if there's less pigment in Amsterdam then maybe it's worth the extra $2.75/tube to get Winton.

What do you think?

postalblue
09-29-2003, 06:11 PM
have you looked into m. graham paints? they're artist quality, and only a tad more expensive than winton.
also, i've been told maimeri classico oil paints are probably the best student 'priced' (not student quality) paints around. run a search for them on the many online art suppliers and you'll see them going for around $3 per 60ml tube and $6-7 per 200ml tube.
might be worthy importing if you can't find them locally.

ginatec
09-29-2003, 06:21 PM
Hi Cunparis

We have a problem in Europe getting some of the better paints. Winton is excellent...but I have great difficulty getting it here and at times have to buy other makes or in desperation W and N, which I find as a student grade better than some other artsit quality paints.

Amsterdam is just about the worst quality you can get. I had a wooden paint box bought as a gift a Xmas...it was populated with Amsterdam paints...YUK!

I am using them up doing oil sketches on paper at college...quick throw away things.

Gina

cunparis
09-30-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by postalblue
have you looked into m. graham paints? they're artist quality, and only a tad more expensive than winton.
also, i've been told maimeri classico oil paints are probably the best student 'priced' (not student quality) paints around. run a search for them on the many online art suppliers and you'll see them going for around $3 per 60ml tube and $6-7 per 200ml tube.
might be worthy importing if you can't find them locally.

I've done a search on several websites and these paints seem to be pretty expensive. I'm not questioning the price or quality, I'm just not sure they're really the same price as Winton. I'm going to the US for thanksgiving so I will pick up a tube or two then and if I like them I can always ask someone in the US to mail me some more. If you know of any websites selling them for $6-7 please let me know.

From the other post it seems Winton is worth the extra $2.75 per tube. Unless someone stands up for Amsterdam, I'll give my tube of Amsterdam to my wife and replace it with Winton. ;)

Michael

luxj
09-30-2003, 09:29 AM
Michael have you tried this website......www.aswexpress.com

they have the Maimeri classico oils for 3.49 a tubeof 60ml and 200ml tubes for 6.99.

artbabe21
09-30-2003, 11:56 AM
I don't know the answer as don't use them but I know Winton is more widely spoken of in the positive (since I haven't previously heard negative about Amsterdam til what Gina said) but wanted to ask where is the least expensive place to buy art supplies(paints) in case mine are confiscated when I fly over to Paris next week & have to buy more!:)

postalblue
09-30-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by cunparis


I've done a search on several websites and these paints seem to be pretty expensive. I'm not questioning the price or quality, I'm just not sure they're really the same price as Winton. I'm going to the US for thanksgiving so I will pick up a tube or two then and if I like them I can always ask someone in the US to mail me some more. If you know of any websites selling them for $6-7 please let me know.

From the other post it seems Winton is worth the extra $2.75 per tube. Unless someone stands up for Amsterdam, I'll give my tube of Amsterdam to my wife and replace it with Winton. ;)

Michael

maimeri classico is WAY cheaper than winton.
you can get m. graham for only a bit more than winton.
just do a search on www.jerrysartarama.com and www.aswexpress.com.
maimeri classico 200ml tubes are $5.99 at asw.
60ml tubes are $2.99.
you can get a 500ml titanium white tube for $14.99 at jerry's.
their try out set is $10.95 with 6 20ml tubes in both suppliers.

cunparis
09-30-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by artbabe21
I don't know the answer as don't use them but I know Winton is more widely spoken of in the positive (since I haven't previously heard negative about Amsterdam til what Gina said) but wanted to ask where is the least expensive place to buy art supplies(paints) in case mine are confiscated when I fly over to Paris next week & have to buy more!:)

The quickest and cheapest inside Paris is Graphigro & Rougé Plé (same company, they merged). They are several in Paris so there is bound to be one by your hotel. Ask the person at the desk. The biggest one is metro "Filles de Calvaire" and it's right by the metro. The place I go (Marin) is even cheaper, but it's outside Paris. Write this down just in case you need it. If you want to be one or two things then Graphigro is fine but if you need to buy all new paints then the trip to Marin would be worth it.

MARIN Beaux arts
70, av. Gabriel Péri
BP 51
94115 Arcueil
tèl: 01 47 40 04 20

To get there it's not trivial: Take RER B to station "La Place". Then take bus 323 to ave Gabriel Péri. Ask the driver to tell you which stop. I walked there last time, it was only 20 minute walk so I guess 5 minutes by bus. You can use yahoo maps to print out a map and take it with you.

Michael

cunparis
09-30-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by postalblue


maimeri classico is WAY cheaper than winton.
you can get m. graham for only a bit more than winton.
just do a search on www.jerrysartarama.com and www.aswexpress.com.
maimeri classico 200ml tubes are $5.99 at asw.
60ml tubes are $2.99.
you can get a 500ml titanium white tube for $14.99 at jerry's.
their try out set is $10.95 with 6 20ml tubes in both suppliers.

I haven't seen maimeri classico in France. I did find it at the links you gave and it sounds too good to be true. How can they use real cadmium pigments and be the same price as Winton? I'd love to get my hands on a single tube to try it out. Only problem is shipping would be about $22 to France and then 20% duty. I will be going to the US for thanksgiving so I'm seriously considering ordering a set of them and just bringing them back with me. Thanks for the info & the links.

Michael

postalblue
09-30-2003, 05:19 PM
since you're in europe, why don't you try to get them directly from an italian supplier?
would you have to pay duty that way?
you could get a try out set just to test the paint, and the reliability of the supplier.

postalblue
09-30-2003, 05:22 PM
another thing is if you decide to purchase the bulk of your arts supplies online, ebay is a good source, and worth sifting through for good deals on maimeri, w & n, old holland, m. graham and other brands. you just have to make sure how much shipping is going to be, and search going price before you bid.

postalblue
09-30-2003, 05:41 PM
i searched yahoo italy:
http://it.search.yahoo.com/search/it?fr=fp-top&p=maimeri+classico&y=y

you can get maimeri 60ml tubes there for around 3-4 euros.
you just have to know some italian to order it, as the two online stores i looked into didn't have an english (or french, for that matter) version. i suppose they'll ship to france, and it will be cheaper.

btw, while searching, i discovered one supplier of maimeri paints in brazil!! guess how much a 60ml goes for: BrR$22. which is more or less like US$8. :(

cunparis
10-01-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by postalblue
i searched yahoo italy:
http://it.search.yahoo.com/search/it?fr=fp-top&p=maimeri+classico&y=y

you can get maimeri 60ml tubes there for around 3-4 euros.
you just have to know some italian to order it, as the two online stores i looked into didn't have an english (or french, for that matter) version. i suppose they'll ship to france, and it will be cheaper.


You are right, there wouldn't be a duty. I found out last night they were italian and found their web page. I emailed them (the Maimeri company) to ask if they have distributors in France. Hopefully they will, but I don't remember seeing them. I'm also going to ask the big art store here, maybe they can special order them.

With your link, I found a site selling them in Italy, it was around 9 Euros for 200ml. I emailed them to ask them about shipping. I can get Winton for 6.20 Euros for 200ml so this maimeri will be about 50% more but from what I gather the quality will be much better. Thanks for your help, I'll continue tracking it down.

Michael

postalblue
10-01-2003, 12:33 PM
glad to help.
if you have some time to spare, let us know what you think of the paints later. or even better, review them on the review section.:)

cunparis
10-01-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by postalblue
glad to help.
if you have some time to spare, let us know what you think of the paints later. or even better, review them on the review section.:)

I used the tubes of Winton and Amsterdam a bit to test them out. The Amsterdam seems to have a chalky, gritty texture (although a very fine grit). I have observed the same thing with the Van Gogh paints I'm using. On the other hand, the Winton doesn't appear to be chalky at all. But also I'm testing two different colors, Winton is lemon yellow and Amsterdam is violet.

I would like to write a review but since I'm a beginner and still learning, I think it's best to wait until I've used more brands. I've never used a real artist quality paint yet. Some day I will spring for a tube to try it out. I'm not in a hurry cause I know after I do I won't want to use student paint any more! ;)

Michael

postalblue
10-01-2003, 12:55 PM
i feel exactly the same.
it would hurt my conscience to be wasting artist quality paint with my incipient skills. :)

tech.knockout
10-01-2003, 01:11 PM
u might as well buy a locally made brand

postalblue
10-01-2003, 02:22 PM
you mean me or cunparis?
my locally made brands are a joke. i only use them so i don't die from withdrawal. :)

cunparis
10-01-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by postalblue
you mean me or cunparis?
my locally made brands are a joke. i only use them so i don't die from withdrawal. :)

My local brands are Lefranc & Bourgeois and Sennelier. Both are more expensive than Winton, so for now I'm happy with Winton. Lefranc 200ml tubes are 9 Euros. Winton is 6.20, so that's quite a big difference.

Michael

cunparis
10-03-2003, 04:19 PM
also, i've been told maimeri classico oil paints are probably the best student 'priced' (not student quality) paints around. run a search for them on the many online art suppliers and you'll see them going for around $3 per 60ml tube and $6-7 per 200ml tube.
might be worthy importing if you can't find them locally. [/B]

I got really lucky today! My teacher told me about another art store in Paris that I didn't know about. I couldn't believe the selection of paint they had. They had so many brands, including blockx and old holland. I'm sure this is where the pro's go. And they had the maimeri. I bought 3 colors and will try them out. I wanted to test their cad yellow but it was sold out. I can understand why if it has real cadmium in it. They were 7 Euros (about $7.70). Slightly more than Winton, but apparently worth it.

Thanks for telling me about Maimeri, I'm really eager to test them out tomorrow.

Michael

ginatec
10-03-2003, 04:53 PM
Great news about the new art store:clap:

Another excellent brand to look out for is Schmincke...you should have that in France it is made in Germany...we can also get it in Spain. It has a high pigment load, it's a bit more expensive but worth it if you like buttery paint.

Gina

postalblue
10-04-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by cunparis


I got really lucky today! My teacher told me about another art store in Paris that I didn't know about. I couldn't believe the selection of paint they had. They had so many brands, including blockx and old holland. I'm sure this is where the pro's go. And they had the maimeri. I bought 3 colors and will try them out. I wanted to test their cad yellow but it was sold out. I can understand why if it has real cadmium in it. They were 7 Euros (about $7.70). Slightly more than Winton, but apparently worth it.

Thanks for telling me about Maimeri, I'm really eager to test them out tomorrow.

Michael

great news. congrats!
is it 7 euros for a 60ml or a 200ml tube?
i found a place in brazil where i can get them for $8 a 60ml tube, so i guess i'll still import them directly from an online supplier, and pay less than that.:rolleyes:
please do let us know what you think of the paint when you have a chance.

cunparis
10-04-2003, 06:38 PM
great news. congrats!
is it 7 euros for a 60ml or a 200ml tube?
i found a place in brazil where i can get them for $8 a 60ml tube, so i guess i'll still import them directly from an online supplier, and pay less than that.:rolleyes:
please do let us know what you think of the paint when you have a chance.

It's 7 Euros for 200ml. Since they're made in Italy, I think we get them at a decent price here in France since we're both in the EU. The funny thing is EU products are often cheaper in the US. A lot of that is because we have a 19.6% tax that is always included, so when I say 7 Euros ($7.70) that's including taxes.

Just when I complain that things are expensive in France, reality sets in. $8 for 60ml is pretty expensive. That's a shame because if paint is really expensive in a country, less people will paint.

For Maimeri, I did a little test. I smeared (with a palette knife) Amsterdam violet (straight & mixed with white), Winton Lemon Yellow (straight), and Maimeri Prussian Blue (straight and mixed with white). The difference is pretty incredible. First off the Amsterdam is very very flat. No light reflects off the paint and it's pretty boring. It was also chalky. With the winton, it's still flat but a little less than Amsterdam, not much. The Winton isn't chalky at all, it's much smoother. So for texture, Winton is better than Amsterdam but for looks it's about the same. Now for Maimeri prussian blue, the texture was much smoother and oilier and 24 hours later it's still very shiny. It looks like oil paint. Now I know different pigments have different oil contents so I don't know if this is related to the colors I chose for the test but so far the Maimeri wins. I hope to paint with them tomorrow and probably buy some more next week.

Michael

PS: I bought prussian blue because I've never had prussian blue. It's very beautiful, I'm going to try to work it into my paintings.

ginatec
10-04-2003, 07:01 PM
Thats a terrible tax...we are only just over the border and we are only 16% on most things and 7% on food and highway tolls.
Gina

adhy
10-05-2003, 04:09 AM
W&N Winton is acutally really crappy paint. Tons of filler...they don't hold up and do really wierd things (color wise).

postalblue
10-05-2003, 09:31 AM
cunparis,

it's great to hear that maimeri is good quality paint.
concerning taxes, we actually have to pay 60% taxes when importing stuff directly.
i suppose the fact that good quality paint is so expensive here only hurts the more serious painters. when talking to my local suppliers' employees, i found out that most people aren't really concerned about paint quality. they want what's cheaper, so it's not worthwhile for their business to invest in imports. what a shame.